# Transgender and Bathrooms



## buteeinnm (Apr 20, 2016)

Wondering if this will be a good or bad decision, Target announcing transgenders can use the bathroom they identify with.


----------



## anathema (Apr 20, 2016)

This has been the policy for quite a while.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

Dear all the "OMG protect da wemonz and childrez" folks,

I am glad you will not be back.  However you will be shocked to find that transgender people have been peeing next to you for years.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

I won't be happy until we have mega bathrooms. Just one giant unisex bathroom. It would be so much easier to attend to
Theoretically, it could be cleaner and more efficient. On the other hand, it could be a disaster because with increased bathroom traffic, you get more mess.

Anyway, there's no benefit to gender segregated bathrooms. In fact having unisex bathrooms literally solves all problems for parents with children, people taking care of other people, and trans folk. So....what's the problem? I have no idea. I'm sure some _Jackass_ will soon enlighten us all soon enough. You know what I'm talking about.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

It's a matter of science. You're either XX or XY in your chromosomes.

XX you're female
XY you're male

Just because Bruce Jenner turned his penis inside out,  doesn't make him a woman. It's science and basic anatomy and physiology.

Now, can people have the feeling they're born into the wrong body?  Sure! That's a mental issue however,  no matter what you do to your body,  your chromosomes don't lie.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

Wrong.

There is more to gender then anatomey. 

While I did laugh at Kindergarten Cop when I was 10, I don't think it should be the final word on a topic sience is still studying.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> It's a matter of science. You're either XX or XY in your chromosomes.
> 
> XX you're female
> XY you're male
> ...



Actually there's about 6 biological sexs (sexes?). What I've learned recently, is that "gender identity" is different than sex. I don't fully understand that concept though, or see the point of it, but I also don't see the harm in it.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Actually there's about 6 biological sexs (sexes?). What I've learned recently, is that "gender identity" is different than sex. I don't fully understand that concept though, or see the point of it, but I also don't see the harm in it.



Being father to a young girl,  I do see some harm in it. I'm not comfortable with someone that has a penis using the same restroom as my little girl.

If transgender people want their own bathrooms I'm fine with that,  build them a 3rd shitter. I just don't care what someone "identifies as", if you have a penis you don't belong in a women's restroom.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> Wrong.
> 
> There is more to gender then anatomey.
> 
> While I did laugh at Kindergarten Cop when I was 10, I don't think it should be the final word on a topic sience is still studying.



There is absolutely no more to gender than anatomy.  Like I said,  we're born XX or XY. Male or female. 

No one has ever been born as a firetruck. 

Sure,  sometimes genes get messed up and hermaphrodites are born,  but that is generally corrected just after birth. 

That's not what is being discussed though.  We're talking about people,  who for whatever reason,  decide to live as a member of the opposite sex.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Being father to a young girl,  I do see some harm in it. I'm not comfortable with someone that has a penis using the same restroom as my little girl.
> 
> If transgender people want their own bathrooms I'm fine with that,  build them a 3rd shitter. I just don't care what someone "identifies as", if you have a penis you don't belong in a women's restroom.



Okay, but why are you afraid? What's this view that men are scary, creepy people? Why when someone makes that argument, why is it always an old male vs. a female kid. Why isn't it ever some 50 year old widow, and a little boy?

 If someone is a threat or a pervert, it has little to do with their gender. AND if they're a predator, I don't know how gender segregated bathrooms stop crimes from happening. If you're willing to do something awful to a person, the sign on the door isn't stopping them. It's a penis, not a heat seeking missile.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> There is absolutely no more to gender than anatomy.  Like I said,  we're born XX or XY. Male or female.
> 
> No one has ever been born as a firetruck.
> 
> ...



6 genders, dude.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> 6 genders, dude.



You've been on tumblr too much.  6 genders? No.  There's two. Male and female.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> There is absolutely no more to gender than anatomy.  Like I said,  we're born XX or XY. Male or female.
> 
> No one has ever been born as a firetruck.
> 
> ...




Because firetrucks are not people, do you really need me to explain how people are diffrent from trucks?


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Okay, but why are you afraid? What's this view that men are scary, creepy people? Why when someone makes that argument, why is it always an old male vs. a female kid. Why isn't it ever some 50 year old widow, and a little boy?
> 
> If someone is a threat or a pervert, it has little to do with their gender. AND if they're a predator, I don't know how gender segregated bathrooms stop crimes from happening. If you're willing to do something awful to a person, the sign on the door isn't stopping them. It's a penis, not a heat seeking missile.



You realize that of all the deviant sexual predators out there,  the vast majority are men that prey on children of either gender.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> Because firetrucks are not people, do you really need me to explain how people are diffrent from trucks?



You completely miss the point.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> You've been on tumblr too much.  6 genders? No.  There's two. Male and female.



I don't even have a Tumblr account. Haven't you heard of a hermaphrodite? Shit goes wrong with chromosomes sometimes.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> View attachment 2061




No to both people in your picture.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I don't even have a Tumblr account. Haven't you heard of a hermaphrodite? Shit goes wrong with chromosomes sometimes.



See my above post, I mentioned hermaphrodites. A genetic anomaly doesn't constitute a new gender.  Hermaphrodites are generally fixed at/near birth.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> You realize that of all the deviant sexual predators out there,  the vast majority are men that prey on children of either gender.



So then, you're just as likely to have a man prey on a little boy. So then how does a unisex bathroom effect that? Like I said, shitty people are shitty. It has zero correlation to gender.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> No to both people in your picture.




So you want transpeople to just pee in flower pots?  Are you for real?


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> So you want transpeople to just pee in flower pots?  Are you for real?



Trans people are welcome to restrooms of their own,  I never said anything about flower pots. Get real.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> See my above post, I mentioned hermaphrodites. A genetic anomaly doesn't constitute a new gender.  Hermaphrodites are generally fixed at/near birth.



So then what restroom do they use? When they're "fixed" the doctors are choosing the gender based on what they judge is best. Sometimes that fails, and you get people whom feel one gender, but were literally assigned something else because they were a hermaphrodite.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> So then what restroom do they use? When they're "fixed" the doctors are choosing the gender based on what they judge is best. Sometimes that fails, and you get people whom feel one gender, but we're literally assigned something else because they were a hermaphrodite.



They use the restroom of their gender.  You are comparing apples and oranges. 

Hermaphrodites are born that way.  Bruce Jenner was born a man and lived as a man for nearly 70 years before deciding to cut his willy off and live as a female. 

Choice is the issue here.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> They use the restroom of their gender.  You are comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> Hermaphrodites are born that way.  Bruce Jenner was born a man and lived as a man for nearly 70 years before deciding to cut his willy off and live as a female.
> 
> Choice is the issue here.



He waited because coming out as a celebrity was going to be psinful due to intolerent uneducated people.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> They use the restroom of their gender.  You are comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> Hermaphrodites are born that way.  Bruce Jenner was born a man and lived as a man for nearly 70 years before deciding to cut his willy off and live as a female.
> 
> Choice is the issue here.



Okay, but if you're a hermaphrodite, you're born with both. Just because a doctor surgically removes the parts of one of the genders, it doesn't necessarily change their body chemistry.

The point in all this is, what does gender have to do with what our bathroom situation is?


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> He waited because coming out as a celebrity was going to be psinful due to intolerent uneducated people.



That's bullshit,  waited till 70? Also, America is obsessed with him and his disgusting step-daughter Kim. You saw the response he got,  celebrity obsessed people ate it up.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> So you want transpeople to just pee in flower pots?  Are you for real?



Someone who is worried over things that have NO effect on his life and I am willing to bet he couldn't clock one to save his life. 

Kim let me drop a little knowledge on ya.. Guys and girls who are in process of changing their gender don't want you to notice them. They don't want attention they want to be left alone as much as you want to be left alone.  How about you give them what you both want.

Pay them no mind cause in your life they don't matter.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> The point in all this is, what does gender have to do with what our bathroom situation is?



The point is, I don't want a man,  with a penis, using the same restroom as my little girl.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> The point is, I don't want a man,  with a penis, using the same restroom as my little girl.



Why? You have a penis. Why trust you?

Edit: or I assume you do. You seem like a dad.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Bosch said:


> Someone who is worried over things that have NO effect on his life and I am willing to bet he couldn't clock one to save his life.
> 
> Kim let me drop a little knowledge on ya.. Guys and girls who are in process of changing their gender don't want you to notice them. They don't want attention they want to be left alone as much as you want to be left alone.  How about you give them what you both want.
> 
> Pay them no mind cause in your life they don't matter.



For folks wanting to be left alone,  they sure complain a lot and put it on display. 

"Woman" of the year,  Bruce Jenner.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Why?



Because it's perverse and disgusting.  I shouldn't have to explain to a little girl why the "lady" in the bathroom with her was peeing standing up.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Because it's perverse and disgusting.  I shouldn't have to explain to a little girl why the "lady" in the bathroom with her was peeing standing up.



What if it's a unisex bathroom? I don't think it's logical to not consider something else, just because you don't want to talk to your kid.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> What if it's a unisex bathroom? I don't think it's logical to not consider something else, just because you don't want to talk to your kid.



I never said anything about unisex/family bathrooms.  Additionally,  those unisex/family bathrooms are single occupant,  there aren't multiple stalls.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> For folks wanting to be left alone,  they sure complain a lot and put it on display.
> 
> "Woman" of the year,  Bruce Jenner.



One who lives in Los Angeles and you will never in this reality meet or even cross paths with. One who will never even think of you cause you or I will never even be a spot on her radar. 

You worry about things that have NOTHING to do with you.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Bosch said:


> You worry about things that have NOTHING to do with you.




There's more trannies out there than just Bruce you know... a lot more.


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

I don't understand people that act like transgender people will be perverts, pedophiles, or rapists in public bathrooms. Have you heard any story's of sexual violence by a transperson in a public bathroom? There's no evidence to back this up. If someone has violent or malicious intentions a bathroom isn't going to stop them. Women bathrooms have stalls not urinals no one is going to know if someone is standing up or not.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I never said anything about unisex/family bathrooms.  Additionally,  those unisex/family bathrooms are single occupant,  there aren't multiple stalls.



I mean like if we just did away with gendered bathrooms altogether and just had "bathrooms." Plus, if they're stalls, how would anyone even know HOW people are peeing. You're daughter won't be in the stall with anyone. Teach her anatomy.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> I don't understand people that act like transgender people will be perverts, pedofiles, or rapists in public bathrooms. Have you heard any story's of sexual violence by transperson in a public bathroom? There's no evidence to back this up. If someone has violent or malicious intentions a bathroom isn't going to stop them. Women bathrooms have stalls not urnials no one is going to know if someone is standing up or not.



Pretty much this. However the point could be made that the reason that evidence doesn't exist, is because there's been no chance for it to happen. However I don't think it will either anymore than it already does.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I mean like if we just did away with gendered bathrooms altogether and just had "bathrooms." Plus, if they're stalls, how would anyone even know HOW people are peeing. You're daughter won't be in the stall with anyone. Teach her anatomy.




A world with nothing but "just bathrooms" disgusts me.  You are advocating giving free access to sexual deviants to just walk in a restroom.

Stall door don't reach the floor,  it's quite easy to see if someone is standing or sitting.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> I don't understand people that act like transgender people will be perverts, pedofiles, or rapists in public bathrooms. Have you heard any story's of sexual violence by transperson in a public bathroom? There's no evidence to back this up. If someone has violent or malicious intentions a bathroom isn't going to stop them. Women bathrooms have stalls not urnials no one is going to know if someone is standing up or not.



Does the door go all the way to the floor in your restrooms?  They don't in men's rooms.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> A world with nothing but "just bathrooms" disgusts me.  You are advocating giving free access to sexual deviants to just walk in a restroom.
> 
> Stall door don't reach the floor,  it's quite easy to see if someone is standing or sitting.



Is that not the case now? Sexual predators use public restrooms daily. And there's nothing stopping them from hiding out in the opposite restroom. You're living that reality every day. Even though restrooms are separated right now, you still don't let your daughter use a public restroom by herself, right? Why is that? Based on what you're saying, she should be totally safe because women aren't perverts.

Stop watching people in the stall next to you. They just want to piss and shit.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> I don't understand people that act like transgender people will be perverts, pedofiles, or rapists in public bathrooms. Have you heard any story's of sexual violence by transperson in a public bathroom? There's no evidence to back this up. If someone has violent or malicious intentions a bathroom isn't going to stop them. Women bathrooms have stalls not urnials no one is going to know if someone is standing up or not.



No but I have heard lots of storys about priests molesting kids but we still let them use the bathroom.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

I've said my peace,  I feel the way I feel. I don't have to defend myself for having moral convictions for wanting to protect my child from perverts. 

I feel that these people who voluntarily mutilate their body are mentally ill.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

This might be a weird concept but....mixed gender restrooms have always existed...in your house o: 

And before I hear a certain someone say IT'S FAMILY!!! Yeah? My dad AND his brother used to molest me. It doesn't take a sign on the door to stop someone from doing something awful to a child. As a genderfluid person who has used the men's room, guess what? No one cared! People were pissing, I walked into the stall to piss. I washed my hands and walked out. Incredible. 

We're there to pee and shit not eye little kids.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I've said my peace,  I feel the way I feel. I don't have to defend myself for having moral convictions for wanting to protect my child from perverts.
> 
> I feel that these people who voluntarily mutilate their body are mentally ill.


You want to protect her from perverts? Lock her in your basement because a restroom isn't gonna protect her.


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Does the door go all the way to the floor in your restrooms?  They don't in men's rooms.


No, but you just see the person's feet no t their gentials. Theres nothing sexual or revealing about seeing someones feet underneath a bathroom stall! In the women's room you don't have gentials exposed it's all done behind closed doors.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I've said my peace,  I feel the way I feel. I don't have to defend myself for having moral convictions for wanting to protect my child from perverts.
> 
> I feel that these people who voluntarily mutilate their body are mentally ill.



I mean, that's fine. I can't blame you entirely. I can at least empathize. However I think it's worth considering that maybe your concerns aren't entirely rational. Emotions are annoying like that. But if you think gendered bathrooms mean your daughter is protected from perverts, then for your daughter's safety, I'm telling you, you're wrong.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> No, but you just see the person's feet no t their gentials. Theres nothing sexual or revealing about seeing someones feet underneath a bathroom stall! In the women's room you don't have gentials exposed it's all done behind closed doors.


Actually, that made me think. Imagine all restrooms nothing but stalls. Urinals with stalls. You won't know who's transgender or not that way and probably still can't when they come out to wash their hands.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> No, but you just see the person's feet no t their gentials. Theres nothing sexual or revealing about seeing someones feet underneath a bathroom stall! In the women's room you don't have gentials exposed it's all done behind closed doors.



When I was in preschool as a kid, I tried to sit in a urinal to pee. I just dropped trow in front of all the other kids. Lol. My logic was, "well there's no stall around these, just like at home!"


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> Actually, that made me think. Imagine all restrooms nothing but stalls. Urinals with stalls. You won't know who's transgender or not that way and probably still can't when they come out to wash their hands.


That would be a good idea!


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

I've been bothered by other women in restrooms before. Once even at work! Long story short, a drug addict asked to watch me masturbate. She was female! She didn't have one of those Satanic dicks I keep hearing about. Another time, a girl with down syndrome looked through the cracks of the stall door and watched me pee. Great. Kids are far more rude than adults. Ever have a kid peak under the wall of their stall before their mom yells at them to stop? Kids make me feel so violated. Lol.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

This one time this lady followed me into the restroom because she wanted to ask me where an item was. I felt so violated by this vagina! Man I should have went to the men's room, bet I would have been safe there :C


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> There's more trannies out there than just Bruce you know... a lot more.



That term is derogatory btw.. And I know there are many in the world, some of them seek me out in the store since after interacting with me they know I don't care and will help them.  They are people..


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I've been bothered by other women in restrooms before. Once even at work! Long story short, a drug addict asked to watch me masturbate. She was female! She didn't have one of those Satanic dicks I keep hearing about. Another time, a girl with down syndrome looked through the cracks of the stall door and watched me pee. Great. Kids are far more rude than adults. Ever have a kid peak under the wall of their stall before their mom yells at them to stop? Kids make me feel so violated. Lol.


Once I had a little kid crawl under the stall while I was using the bathroom at a publix and I was horrified! Haha. His mom screamed at him when she found out what happened.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> Once I had a little kid crawl under the stall while I was using the bathroom at a publix and I was horrified! Haha. His mom screamed at him when she found out what happened.


I had a little girl grope me because my shirt had a rainbow on it and she wanted to touch the rainbow. Or she knew exactly what she was doing because homegirl went straight for the tiddys. Mother was mortified lmao I had to stand there for a minute to process what happened.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Bosch said:


> That term is derogatory btw.. And I know there are many in the world, some of them seek me out in the store since after interacting with me they know I don't care and will help them.  They are people..



What, tranny? No more derogatory than being called a right wing bigot by people who disagree with me. 

Life's tough, I learned that the hard way.  I've been made fun of for my appearance since I was 3. I have visible scars that were beyond my control.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> Once I had a little kid crawl under the stall while I was using the bathroom at a publix and I was horrified! Haha. His mom screamed at him when she found out what happened.



Lmfao, man and kids are so judgmental too. They look and react like, "ew, that gross girl is sitting on a toilet, how dare she." No shit, kid! This is a bathroom! Lol! I'm both annoyed and amused by their naive nature.


----------



## Joejoe12 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> It's a matter of science. You're either XX or XY in your chromosomes.
> 
> XX you're female
> XY you're male
> ...


Love that line


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Lmfao, man and kids are so judgmental too. They look and react like, "ew, that gross girl is sitting on a toilet, how dare she." No shit, kid! This is a bathroom! Lol! I'm both annoyed and amused by their naive nature.


Children can be so rude! I have a pixie cut and children have straight up told me that I "didn't look like a girl" "why do you have a boy haircut?" " are you a boy or a girl?"


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> What, tranny? No more derogatory than being called a right wing bigot by people who disagree with me.
> 
> Life's tough, I learned that the hard way.  I've been made fun of for my appearance since I was 3. I have visible scars that were beyond my control.




So instead of compasion and understanding you chose name calling and knowingly being hurtful to others?


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> What, tranny? No more derogatory than being called a right wing bigot by people who disagree with me.
> 
> Life's tough, I learned that the hard way.  I've been made fun of for my appearance since I was 3. I have visible scars that were beyond my control.



So then wtf? That doesn't make you an authority in telling people how they should feel about themselves. Why not relate rather than judge? I say judge because I don't think your views have much logical backing. You said it's how you feel. Still valid, but....that's all it is. A feeling.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> What, tranny? No more derogatory than being called a right wing bigot by people who disagree with me.
> 
> Life's tough, I learned that the hard way.  I've been made fun of for my appearance since I was 3. I have visible scars that were beyond my control.


Ohhhh buddy pal friend home slice bread slice do you really wanna bring out that "life's tough" bullshit right here because I got a list buddy. And the newest addition is "being called a pervert because I need to pee on top of all this other bullshit I have"


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> So instead of compasion and understanding you chose name calling and knowingly being hurtful to others?



Seriously, wtf. It's like if a fat person whom was made fun of their whole lives, finally lost weight, and then started making fun of fat people.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> What, tranny? No more derogatory than being called a right wing bigot by people who disagree with me.
> 
> Life's tough, I learned that the hard way.  I've been made fun of for my appearance since I was 3. I have visible scars that were beyond my control.



So you are saying cause you got bullied its fine for you to call people derogatory terms? 

Life is tough and now I understand why you want to make it a living hell for others..


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> So instead of compasion and understanding you chose name calling and knowingly being hurtful to others?



Its not name calling,  tranny is short for TRANsexual.

Name calling is being called freak or scarface because of something beyond your control.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Bosch said:


> So you are saying cause you got bullied its fine for you to call people derogatory terms?
> 
> Life is tough and now I understand why you want to make it a living hell for others..



LOL,  explain how I'm making anything a living hell.


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> What, tranny? No more derogatory than being called a right wing bigot by people who disagree with me.
> 
> Life's tough, I learned that the hard way.  I've been made fun of for my appearance since I was 3. I have visible scars that were beyond my control.


Youre not a good person if you know how hurtful it is to be called names yet you still call other people hurtful words. Two wrongs don't make a right. You don't think it's okay for people to call you a right wing bigot but its okay for you to call them a tranny? It doesn't work that way.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

Holy shit do you not know what slurs are


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Its not name calling,  tranny is short for TRANsexual.
> 
> Name calling is being called freak or scarface because of something beyond your control.



Dude, scarface is badass.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> Youre not a good person if you know how hurtful it is to be called names yet you still call other people hurtful words. Two wrongs don't make a right. You don't think it's okay for people to call you a right wing bigot but its okay for you to call them a tranny? It doesn't work that way.



Thing is,  tranny isn't derogatory. It's a shortened form of TRANsexual.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Dude, scarface is badass.



The movie,  yes.  Having one on your face that is constantly gawked at and ridiculed for,  isn't.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

I had no idea "tranny" was offensive...


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Thing is,  tranny isn't derogatory. It's a shortened form of TRANsexual.


And it's intended use is as an insult, a slur.


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Thing is,  tranny isn't derogatory. It's a shortened form of TRANsexual.


It's a slur! It's been used to dehumanize a group of people. It doesn't have to have a bad literal meaning to be offensive.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> The movie,  yes.  Having one on your face that is constantly gawked at and ridiculed for,  isn't.


Okay Prince Zuko


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> The movie,  yes.  Having one on your face that is constantly gawked at and ridiculed for,  isn't.



Nah, I got keloids on my ear. I sorta get it. I was never given a cool nickname though.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> And it's intended use is as an insult, a slur.



Only if you take it that way.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Only if you take it that way.


Like you chose the names people called you to be insulting


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> Okay Prince Zuko



Birthmarks aren't scars, nice try.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> Like you chose the names people called you to be insulting



I didn't choose them because I didn't CHOOSE to have a scar


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Only if you take it that way.


You take right wing bigot to be insulting. Why can't other people be insulted by tranny?


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Its not name calling,  tranny is short for TRANsexual.
> 
> Name calling is being called freak or scarface because of something beyond your control.




They can not chose or control being transgender any more then you could your scars or I can the color of my eyes.


You don't get to make that call when it cones to others.  It had been pointed out thst tranny is derogatory.  You now have a choice, continue to use it and be lke those that hurt you or be better.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> It's a slur! It's been used to dehumanize a group of people. It doesn't have to have a bad literal meaning to be offensive.



Wrong


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Only if you take it that way.



I mean, you can say that about fag and nigger too. Why continue to use it, once finding out its become a slur? I had no idea about "tranny." I think it's a little flippant for sure. Insult? Mmm, I dunno.

Having said that, I'll never stop saying "retarded."


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Birthmarks aren't scars, nice try.


Clearly you never watched Avatar because his dad straight shot fire at his face giving him the scar but you know



KimJungUn said:


> I didn't choose them because I didn't CHOOSE to have a scar


Perhaps you read that wrong my good man. The names people called you. You chose to let them be insulting.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Signkitty said:


> They can not chose or control being transgender any more then you could your scars or I can the color of my eyes.
> 
> 
> You don't get to make that call when it cones to others.  It had been pointed out thst tranny is derogatory.  You now have a choice, continue to use it and be lke those that hurt you or be better.



They do CHOOSE,  to be transgender.  

Being born homosexual, however,  isn't a choice.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> Clearly you never watched Avatar because his dad straight shot fire at his face giving him the scar but you know
> 
> 
> Perhaps you read that wrong my good man. The names people called you. You chose to let them be insulting.



Clearly I don't watch avatar because I'm not a weeaboo. I'm a grown ass 34 year old man.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Clearly I don't watch avatar because I'm not a weeaboo. I'm a grown ass 34 year old man.



Posing as Kim Jung un. Lol


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Posing as Kim Jung un. Lol



I'm Korean,  not Japanese!


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> They do CHOOSE,  to be transgender.
> 
> Being born homosexual, however,  isn't a choice.



It is not a choice.  


Science Just Proved What Trans Kids Have Always Known





The Choice That Isn't

Why does no one ever take the "be better option".


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

The point I'm making is this...
1.) I don't hate transgender people,  I only ask that people born male don't use the same private facilities my child uses.

2.) Stop making a spectacle of it.  Trans people are being glorified in the media as "heroes" for doing what they do.  They aren't heroes,  emergency responders and military members could be considered heroes.

3.) If you don't want to be noticed or get this attention,  stop having parades in the public eye to celebrate it.

I could go on but I won't.  I'm fine with everyone just getting along as long as it's not forced upon those who happen to disagree with that lifestyle.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> The point I'm making is this...
> 1.) I don't hate transgender people,  I only ask that people born male don't use the same private facilities my child uses.
> 
> 2.) Stop making a spectacle of it.  Trans people are being glorified in the media as "heroes" for doing what they do.  They aren't heroes,  emergency responders and military members could be considered heroes.
> ...



I agree about the glorification. I think it's just pure pandering and exploitation. However I don't support needless gender separation. Such as with restrooms. Our country has such an immature view of sex and the human body. I blame that really. It's the cause of the exploitive nature of gender issues...and it's also the cause of ignorance over gender issues.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I agree about the glorification. I think it's just pure pandering and exploitation. However I don't support needless gender separation. Such as with restrooms. Our country has such an immature view of sex and the human body. I blame that really.



I agree that the USA is pretty tame in our views on sexuality. Hell, there's not even simple nudity on tv like in many European nations.  (Thanks FCC)

I spent some time in Switzerland and I saw an advertisement on TV at 11am that featured a dozen topless women riding motorcycles on a MotoGP track.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> They do CHOOSE,  to be transgender.
> 
> Being born homosexual, however,  isn't a choice.



Like someone chooses to have bipolar or schizophrenia or cancer..


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Bosch said:


> Like someone chooses to have bipolar or schizophrenia or cancer..



You listed diseases, congratulations,  you just proved yourself wrong. 

Making a conscious decision to undergo gender reassignment surgery most definitely IS a choice.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 20, 2016)

I have a friend who is transgender. You would never know she used to be a man. Which restroom would you prefer she use?


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Making a conscious decision to undergo gender reassignment surgery most definitely IS a choice.


Because it beats suicide.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

redeye58 said:


> Because it beats suicide.



Who said anything about suicide?!?


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Wrong


You don't understand slurs at all.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> You don't understand slurs at all.



Here's your tolerant,  peaceful transsexuals.  SELF IDENTIFYING as a "tranny". Oh, and committing assault and battery too.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> I have a friend who is transgender. You would never know she used to be a man. Which restroom would you prefer she use?



They can have their own restroom.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 20, 2016)

As the father of two daughters I would have no problem with them using the same bathroom with a transgender person.
They have every right to use the bathroom that matches their gender.

You do realize that the suicide rate for transgender people astronomical, as is the homeless rate and jobless rate?
I work with a number of transgender people at DVR who have serious depression issues.
Mostly because our society does everything it can to shame them and make life as difficult as possible.

Passing laws about bathrooms is just the tip of the iceberg.
These laws also keeps cities and towns in the states from passing equal protection laws and safety zones for transgender people.
Truly evil shit, only perpetrated because they lost the war on gay marriage.

I posted this before but for folks who need a refresher course on gender roles.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> You listed diseases, congratulations,  you just proved yourself wrong.
> 
> Making a conscious decision to undergo gender reassignment surgery most definitely IS a choice.



So your saying that no one should surgically treat cancer? Cause that is a choice and sometimes a horribly mutilating choice. Not a flippant choice.

You seem to think that these people change gender like you would change your socks and that is so not the case. 

You are hung up on the surgery but refuse to acknowledge the reasons for said surgery. That is pretty simplistic and a very incomplete view.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> They can have their own restroom.




You say that so casually but since those don't exist, like anywhere, it's not a valid point.
Please come up with a real solution.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

commiecorvus said:


> You say that so casually but since those don't exist, like anywhere, it's not a valid point.
> Please come up with a real solution.



Give them,  their own restrooms.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

commiecorvus said:


> You say that so casually but since those don't exist, like anywhere, it's not a valid point.
> Please come up with a real solution.



He can't.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Bosch said:


> He can't.


I just did,  you can't read apparently.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Give them,  their own restrooms.




Can you see that happening in the south, where the hatred is almost palpable?
For that matter didn't they have a solution like that back in the old days for folks who didn't want to mix people who weren't their type, who were afraid their children and wives would be raped in the bathrooms?
You know that was the excuse they used for have 'Colored' bathrooms, right?


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

commiecorvus said:


> Can you see that happening in the south, where the hatred is almost palpable?
> For that matter didn't they have a solution like that back in the old days for folks who didn't want to mix people who weren't their type, who were afraid their children and wives would be raped in the bathrooms?
> You know that was the excuse they used for have 'Colored' bathrooms, right?



You seriously want to compare the situation transsexuals are in to the situation blacks faced?  It's not even close.

Blacks were lynched,  murdered,  segregated... transsexuals don't have anything like that on the scale blacks did.

Why not compare the plight of transsexuals to that of Jews during the Holocaust?


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I just did,  you can't read apparently.



Where? I am still waiting.

And all those things that happened to blacks happens to the transgendered.


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

Kimjungun is just a bigot. This thread should be closed down


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Who said anything about suicide?!?


Before a person can undergo gender reassignment, they have to submit to counseling; that's before they even start hormone therapy.
After the counselor is convinced that gender reassignment is recommended, only then can they begin hormone therapy & begin taking the appearance of their 'other' gender. 
It's the most awkward & dangerous time for them because of people who believe as you. 
There have been countless attacks by men AND women against transitioning people, the most graphic one of several women beating a trans woman because she dared to use the women's restroom at a McDonald's. 
Management stood by but did nothing to intervene as she was beaten & kicked until she went into a seizure.
Only then did they call the police - not an ambulance, but the police, as the assailants left.
A former TM who was transitioning was gang-raped walking home one night. 
When they are finally cleared to receive reassignment surgery it's like the end of a long race. 
As commie pointed out, the suicide rate is astronomical among trans people.
It's hardly a flippant decision to risk so much, including your life/career/family/relationships.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> Kimjungun is just a bigot. This thread should be closed down



I'm the bigot?  Sorry for being a Christian and following my faith. 

Did you watch the video of your tolerant transsexual assaulting a peaceful Trump supporter?


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> Kimjungun is just a bigot. This thread should be closed down




Sadly, that's not the case.
He just can only see things in binary, black or white, male or female.
The idea of multiple genders is too foreign and until someone in his family, naybe his daughter comes out he won't ever understand or try to.

He is willing to come up with a pie in the sky solution that won't happen though which is better than many people of his ilk who aren't even willing to entertain any solutions.



KimJungUn said:


> You seriously want to compare the situation transsexuals are in to the situation blacks faced?  It's not even close.
> 
> Blacks were lynched,  murdered,  segregated... transsexuals don't have anything like that on the scale blacks did.
> 
> Why not compare the plight of transsexuals to that of Jews during the Holocaust?




Yes, yes, I am.
I had family march in the civil rights marches and this is very much the same thing.
Right now there has been a transexual killed every week in Texas and people are getting away with it using the 'surprise' defense.
People are dying, its just not just not getting covered.


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I'm the bigot?  Sorry for being a Christian and following my faith.
> 
> Did you watch the video of your tolerant transsexual assaulting a peaceful Trump supporter?


You're using someones gender identity and things one person did  demonize a whole group.  That's like saying a black person attacked me all black people are all evil thugs. Just because one person did something mallicous doesn't mean all transgender people are evil. How is it being Christian to be unacceping of a group of people? Last time I checked being Christian is not an excuse of to cover up your hatred and intolerance for a group of people.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> You're using someones gender identity and things one person did  demonize a whole group.  That's like saying a black person attacked me all black people are all evil thugs. Just because one person did something mallicous doesn't mean all transgender people are evil. How is it being Christian to be unacceping of a group of people? Last time I checked being Christian is not an excuse of to cover up your hatred and intolerance for a group of people.


Please, show me where I said all Trans people are evil. You made a blanket statement that they're harmless and I'm bashing them. I proved you wrong.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 20, 2016)

Why not just have one giant bathroom with separate individual rooms??

Call me weird but, some people are Pee-Shy, I for one am Shit-shy, if that is a thing, and would prefer to do it as far away as possible from a fellow human being, whether they are male, female, or a Fire truck.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> You're using someones gender identity and things one person did  demonize a whole group.  That's like saying a black person attacked me all black people are all evil thugs. Just because one person did something mallicous doesn't mean all transgender people are evil. How is it being Christian to be unacceping of a group of people? Last time I checked being Christian is not an excuse of to cover up your hatred and intolerance for a group of people.



You should re-read your bible. See what it says about these type things.


----------



## Kartman (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> They can have their own restroom.


Soooooo...

Businesses will have to provide _four_ restrooms now?

Ha.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

This is the last I'll say about this.

I never once said all Trans people are evil,  those words were put in my mouth by hateful people who didn't like my opinion. 

I'm not comfortable with ANYONE with a penis, using the ladies restroom while my child is in there.  I have a right to my opinion and I'll stick to it thanks. 

I think America has much bigger problems to worry about than "Trans rights". News flash,  straight,  gay or trans... as Americans we all share the same rights. 

Perhaps instead of worrying about what dress Bruce Jenner wore to a Hollywood event,  we should worry about real issues. 

Terrorism
Economic stability
Illegal immigration

True threats to America.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 20, 2016)

Rock on Kim.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I think America has much bigger problems to worry about than "Trans rights". News flash, straight, gay or trans... *as Americans we all share the same rights.*


Something legislators should heed when passing laws to restrict said rights.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 20, 2016)

North Carolina says 'hi':
NC passes bill to stop local laws that prohibit discrimination
And Mississippi:
Mississippi religious freedom bill signed into law


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

redeye58 said:


> North Carolina says 'hi':
> NC passes bill to stop local laws that prohibit discrimination
> And Mississippi:
> Mississippi religious freedom bill signed into law



I won't be dragged back into a lengthy debate,  but I'll say this...

These laws aren't discriminatory, they're designed to protect the rights of people from being forced to do something against their religious beliefs.

There's nothing stopping people from finding a different business that will accommodate their wishes.  It is illegal to force a privately held business from performing a service that would violate their religious beliefs.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 20, 2016)

The Mississippi law goes further in allowing those in state positions to deny services to people based on their 'faith'. 
Entirely different from someone 'finding a different business that will accommodate their wishes'.
When it's a _state agency_ that is allowing their _employees_ the right to deny services (issuing marriage licenses, etc) to the public because of their _personal_ beliefs, those _employees_ should be the ones to find a job that will accommodate their beliefs.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

redeye58 said:


> The Mississippi law goes further in allowing those in state positions to deny services to people based on their 'faith'.
> Entirely different from someone 'finding a different business that will accommodate their wishes'.
> When it's a _state agency_ that is allowing their _employees_ the right to deny services (issuing marriage licenses, etc) to the public because of their _personal_ beliefs, those _employees_ should be the ones to find a job that will accommodate their beliefs.



I will agree,  that if a state employee,  working in a state that allows gay unions,  had a problem,  they should find other work. 

However in the case of private business,  unless that business utilizes federal money to operate,  they can serve our refuse to serve anyone for any reason. It's their decision.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> However in the case of private business, unless that business utilizes federal money to operate, they can serve our refuse to serve anyone for any reason. It's their decision.


I tend to agree because the business could determine if they have a strong enough clientele to operate one way or the other & people will vote with their $$.
It becomes problematic if a particular business is the only one in a sizable area but resource & creativity should be able to come to the fore.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

redeye58 said:


> I tend to agree because the business could determine if they have a strong enough clientele to operate one way or the other & people will vote with their $$.
> It becomes problematic if a particular business is the only one in a sizable area but resource & creativity should be able to come to the fore.




I'm glad we can find some common ground.  Contrary to what some may think here,  I'm not a hate machine. 

I have friends of all sexual persuasions,  races,  religions,  etc... my friends and I get along because we respect our differences of opinion and find common interests that bind us together.


----------



## oath2order (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> This is the last I'll say about this.
> 
> I never once said all Trans people are evil,  those words were put in my mouth by hateful people who didn't like my opinion.
> 
> ...



So why again is it the men as the predator? Women teachers touching boys seems to be common in the media.

You seem very afraid of trans people. If trans people touching kids in bathrooms was an issue, we would definitely hear something. Yet we have heard nothing.


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 20, 2016)

Mods, please move this thread to off the clock forum. Also, name calling needs to stop, please.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 20, 2016)

I'm late to the party, but just let me say this.

A person's gender is not determined by whatever they're rocking underneath the belt. To deny a person the right to use the restroom that aligns with their gender identity because you are uncomfortable with the fact that they are transgender is effectively the very definition of bigotry and discrimination.

Also, forcing large burly men that just so happen to have been born genetically female to use the women's restroom would cause far more trouble than just letting them use the restroom that *correctly aligns with their gender.* Should this man below be forced to use the women's restroom because  he was born female? Absolutely not.


Spoiler












"Spokespeople from the Transgender Law Center, the Human Rights Campaign and the American Civil Liberties Union told _Mic_ that no statistical evidence of violence exists to warrant this legislation. Vincent Villano, the director of communications for the National Center for Transgender Equality, told _Mic_ in an email that there isn't any firm data to corroborate these lawmakers' claims, and that NCTE has "not heard of a single instance of a transgender person harassing a non-transgender person in a public restroom. Those who claim otherwise have no evidence that this is true and use this notion to prey on the public's stereotypes and fears about transgender people." (Source)


----------



## Catfish Rita (Apr 20, 2016)

I'm down for anything just as long as people learn to ACTUALLY PUT THEIR TOILET PAPER IN THE TOILET.

_"Restroom checkup is complete"_


----------



## Quattro (Apr 20, 2016)

One mega bathroom.  All stalls, no urinals.  Keep your naughty bits in your pants unless you're in the stall.  
Or 3-4 small, 1 person-at-a-time, unisex bathrooms.  Just a toilet, a sink, and a hand dryer.

Basically the same concept as porta-potties, except they'll have running water, and will *hopefully* be more sanitary.


----------



## Kartman (Apr 20, 2016)

Problem solved, Quattro!

/thread


----------



## BullseyeBlues (Apr 20, 2016)

Trans folks just want to use the bathroom that's safest for them.  Let 'em do that.  They just want to pee and poop like everyone else.  No need to be the potty police, when someone's gotta go, they gotta go.  Toddlers understand this, so it never fails to irritate me that adults want to make life more complicated and dangerous for others.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> You seriously want to compare the situation transsexuals are in to the situation blacks faced?  It's not even close.
> 
> Blacks were lynched,  murdered,  segregated... transsexuals don't have anything like that on the scale blacks did.
> 
> Why not compare the plight of transsexuals to that of Jews during the Holocaust?


Nearly every day my friend posts another story about how someone is killed because someone finds out they are transgender. It is an incredibly dangerous time to be transgender in America.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 20, 2016)

oath2order said:


> So why again is it the men as the predator? Women teachers touching boys seems to be common in the media.
> 
> You seem very afraid of trans people. If trans people touching kids in bathrooms was an issue, we would definitely hear something. Yet we have heard nothing.



Yet transgendered people are attacked all the time, and it's getting worse, because of these silly laws. Now, people will attack you if you aren't transgender but don't look enough like the "correct" gender and you dare to use the restroom.


----------



## MobileMythbuster (Apr 20, 2016)

I really don't understand  the big deal. Wonans restrooms are all individual stalls. So why should anyoneone care if the "wrong " gender is closed into an individual little room? It's a stupid thing to fuss over. As long as they are not peeking into other peoples stalls, which is wrong and creepy anyhow, regardless of gender.


----------



## MobileMythbuster (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> The point is, I don't want a man,  with a penis, using the same restroom as my little girl.


Why is your little girl looking in closed stalls? There are no urinals in a womans bathroom.


----------



## oath2order (Apr 20, 2016)

Grmrsan said:


> I really don't understand  the big deal. Wonans restrooms are all individual stalls. So why should anyoneone care if the "wrong " gender is closed into an individual little room? It's a stupid thing to fuss over. As long as they are not peeking into other peoples stalls, which is wrong and creepy anyhow, regardless of gender.



This is a common sense point and very true.


----------



## MobileMythbuster (Apr 20, 2016)

Catfish Rita said:


> I'm down for anything just as long as people learn to ACTUALLY PUT THEIR TOILET PAPER IN THE TOILET.
> 
> _"Restroom checkup is complete"_


And FLUSH!!!


----------



## Backroom81 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> You should re-read your bible. See what it says about these type things.



Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> You should re-read your bible. See what it says about these type things.



Why? I don't consult works of fiction when looking for facts.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Grmrsan said:


> Why is your little girl looking in closed stalls? There are no urinals in a womans bathroom.



She's not looking in closed stalls,  you do realize the majority of restrooms are outside the stall.  Sinks,  hand driers,  etc...


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Backroom81 said:


> Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.



*1 Corinthians 6:17-20*

18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit_who is_ in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> She's not looking in closed stalls,  you do realize the majority of restrooms are outside the stall.  Sinks,  hand driers,  etc...



and people walk around with their genitals exposed when washing their hands? Exposing one's self is already a crime, molestation is a crime, rape is a crime. There is no evidence linking transgender with molestation either. It's nothing more than a fear tactic spread by people who neither understand or accept transgender people.

I have a close friend who is transgender, and by knowing her (male transitioning to female) I have had my eyes opened to a perspective I never could have understood before. Life for a transgender person is extremely difficult. Many people refuse to understand them and they are constantly berated and looked down up for their identity. Now we have a group who is seeking to further demonize them as a group for no reason.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Bosch said:


> Why? I don't consult works of fiction when looking for facts.



I'll pray for you.


----------



## MrGeppetto (Apr 20, 2016)

I feel whatever the person personal choice (gender, race) should not be limited nor segregated by genders, are we really going down this path AGAIN. seriously what the heck did we learn from segregation?

girls, and boy toys? *gender neutral!*
Male and Female bathrooms, *gender neutral!*
water fountain, *race neutral*
*what is the problem with a persons choice? if the decicion to live gay or change gender it's theirs, and we should respect it. 
bar none.
/thread*


----------



## garbage (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> It's a matter of science. You're either XX or XY in your chromosomes.
> 
> XX you're female
> XY you're male


Agreed. Sex AND Gender do not change based upon how you feel. You can  identify  yourself as whatever you want and get whatever surgeries you want, but it doesn't change the fact that if your DNA were to be tested, it would list your birth sex...not how you feel.


----------



## Backroom81 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> *1 Corinthians 6:17-20*
> 
> 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit_who is_ in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.



Now point to where it says being transgender is considered sexual immorality, or are you going with the "body is the temple" argument?  In which case, nothing is said about body modification.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

garbage said:


> Agreed. Sex AND Gender do not change based upon how you feel. You can  identify  yourself as whatever you want and get whatever surgeries you want, but it doesn't change the fact that if your DNA were to be tested, it would list your birth sex...not how you feel.



Finally someone willing to understand what I actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

Backroom81 said:


> Now point to where it says being transgender is considered sexual immorality, or are you going with the "body is the temple" argument?  In which case, nothing is said about body modification.



Transgender body modifications and sexual relations are the definition of sexual immorality.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

It's funny, I'm labeled as a bigot,  being closed minded and hateful.  Yet, I'm the one being called names,  having false words/meaning attributed to me and being railroaded for expressing my Christian beliefs.

If this is the best you all have to offer,  I am disappointed.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Transgender body modifications and sexual relations are the definition of sexual immorality.



To you, morality is not a set in stone code no matter how much you would like to think so. I know you love imposing your morals on others, but that is simply not part of our constitution or did you miss that whole first amendment?


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

The Dude Abides said:


> To you, morality is not a set in stone code no matter how much you would like to think so. I know you love imposing your morals on others, but that is simply not part of our constitution or did you miss that whole first amendment?



Funny you mention the first Amendment since you are trying to silence mine instead of having a rational,  adult discussion.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> It's funny, I'm labeled as a bigot,  being closed minded and hateful.  Yet, I'm the one being called names,  having false words/meaning attributed to me and being railroaded for expressing my Christian beliefs.
> 
> If this is the best you all have to offer,  I am disappointed.



When I see this argument, all I read is "Why can't I discriminate? <Insert marginalized group here> is violating my religious freedoms by refusing to let me discriminate against them. Can't you see I am the real victim here?"


----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Funny you mention the first Amendment since you are trying to silence mine instead of having a rational,  adult discussion.



No, I am refuting your pathetic argument. The first amendment gives you the freedom to have your speech not restricted by the government. It does not however absolve you from the consequences of your speech.


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

The Dude Abides said:


> When I see this argument, all I read is "Why can't I discriminate? <Insert marginalized group here> is violating my religious freedoms by refusing to let me discriminate against them. Can't you see I am the real victim here?"




Show me where I've discriminated against them.  Please,  I'll wait.  Answer? I haven't.


----------



## Solesurvivor (Apr 20, 2016)

We had a Ts work in my target. Unfortunately some stupid girl figured it out and yelled towards the heavens.

She left shortly after. 

Too bad, she is awesome eye candy. Got her number and spoke with her. She didn't like the fact that it spread around spot. 

Felt really bad for her


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

The Dude Abides said:


> No, I am refuting your pathetic argument. The first amendment gives you the freedom to have your speech not restricted by the government. It does not however absolve you from the consequences of your speech.



Consequences?  What are you going to do tough guy?


----------



## Backroom81 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Transgender body modifications and sexual relations are the definition of sexual immorality.



While the Old Testament definitely labels homosexuality as immoral, please point to where it says being transgender is.


----------



## tgtguy (Apr 20, 2016)

I honestly, don't see the big deal. When, I go into the bathroom its either to do 1 of 2 things and sometimes both. I am not in there to talk about sports or cars or grilling tips. I am in there to use the bathroom get in and get out . People keep saying we have to protect our children etc. Ok, that's true . However, how many times on the news have you heard of a trans person molesting a kid in a bathroom? Molesters come in all shapes and sizes and BOTH sexes.  I just don't get why people are so focused on the bathroom. Focus on the classroom ( teachers have been known to molest) Focus on the church ( preachers, priests etc have been known to molest, Focus on the locker room ( coaches have been known to molest) Focus on your family reunion ( family members can molest)....the list goes on and on. The trans people just want to use the bathroom.....that's all.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 20, 2016)

Backroom81 said:


> While the Old Testament definitely labels homosexuality as immoral, please point to where it says being transgender is.



Polyestor, tattos and shell fish are also a sin.  Meanwhile it was cool to own slaves in the bible.  

The bible is not a set of morals I'd want to follow.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Show me where I've discriminated against them.  Please,  I'll wait.  Answer? I haven't.



You are supporting HB2, which is a discriminatory act.



KimJungUn said:


> Consequences?  What are you going to do tough guy?



Point out your bigotry. Do you expect physical violence? However, if you say something hateful or support discriminatory positions you should expect people to call you out on it. What conservatives seem to want is the ability to speak their minds and not have anyone respond to them. They want a one way dialogue in which their opinions are represented and others are not allowed. Liberals will call out and argue against opposing positions, but we will never refuse your ability to say them.


----------



## garbage (Apr 20, 2016)

tgtguy said:


> The trans people just want to use the bathroom.....that's all.


They can..I just ask the men use the men's and women use the women's. A bathroom isn't the place for someone to "express" themself. It's not like I want the trans people to shit in the  dumpster next to the pond.


----------



## callmetaylor (Apr 20, 2016)

garbage said:


> Agreed. Sex AND Gender do not change based upon how you feel. You can  identify  yourself as whatever you want and get whatever surgeries you want, but it doesn't change the fact that if your DNA were to be tested, it would list your birth sex...not how you feel.



You guys do realize that intersex people- people BORN with the sex characteristics of BOTH GENDERS exist, right? So no- you're not simply either xx or xy. (Replying primarily to the post you replied to- just didn't feel like digging through the thread to find it)

I wouldn't be surprised if one day science proves that the vast majority of transgender people have a super super super mild form of something like being intersex.

From my understanding all fetuses are female until a signal is sent out to flood the fetus with hormones that basically turn it in to a boy. Can you not see how insanely easy it would be for things to be grey because of this? What is the result if that happens when it shouldn't? What if it happens too early or too late? 

we don't know everything. Just because we can't explain the cause behind someone being transgender doesn't mean there isn't a total valid reason that is 100% outside of that persons control.


So many people have been persecuted over the years for stuff that society blamed them for/viewed through some creepy moral lens, when in reality it was entirely out of that persons control all along and could be fully explained by physical/chemical abnormalities.


Point being: don't judge what you don't understand. To assume that someone being transgender is the definition of sexual immorality or that it "can't" exist because you're either 100% male or 100% female is total ignorance. 

You want your kids to be safe in a bathroom, fight for individual bathrooms, or bathrooms without those shitty stall doors that have a gap a mile wide at the hinge...but don't take it out on people who are already suffering FAR beyond what you can comprehend.


----------



## tgtguy (Apr 20, 2016)

garbage said:


> They can..I just ask the men use the men's and women use the women's. A bathroom isn't the place for someone to "express" themself. It's not like I want the trans people to shit in the  dumpster next to the pond.


A trans person...is someone who is living as the opposite sex they were born as...so you wouldn't know what they had In their pants or up their skirt


----------



## MobileMythbuster (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> She's not looking in closed stalls,  you do realize the majority of restrooms are outside the stall.  Sinks,  hand driers,  etc...


 Do YOU wander around the bathroom, washing your hands and using the dryer with your pants down? Granted, Mens rooms have urinals, that are in semi public view, and they apparently don't care if other people see thier penis and testicles, but lady's rooms don't have that option. So in order to notice anythimg strange, she would literally have to be invading other people's stalls.


----------



## qmosqueen (Apr 20, 2016)

one less Bigot to shop at Target  yeah !!!


----------



## garbage (Apr 20, 2016)

callmetaylor said:


> You guys do realize that intersex people- people BORN with the sex characteristics of BOTH GENDERS exist, right? So no- you're not simply either xx or xy. (Replying primarily to the post you replied to- just didn't feel like digging through the thread to find it)
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if one day science proves that the vast majority of transgender people have a super super super mild form of something like being intersex.
> 
> ...


Still missing my point there... I do not care how someone feels (well I do, but not in this regard). Just use the bathroom that correlates with the sex you were born as...why is this discriminatory?


----------



## KimJungUn (Apr 20, 2016)

I'm done defending myself against you bleeding heart liberals. Believe what you want,  I'll do the same.  But believe me,  if I see a man walking into the women's room while my wife or child is in there,  I'm going to make sure HE waits until my family is out of the bathroom.


----------



## qmosqueen (Apr 20, 2016)




----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I'm done defending myself against you bleeding heart liberals. Believe what you want,  I'll do the same.  But believe me,  if I see a man walking into the women's room while my wife or child is in there,  I'm going to make sure HE waits until my family is out of the bathroom.



Are you going to pull down this person's pants and check their genitals?





Is this person allowed a man or a woman? If HB2 were law this person would be forced to use the women's restroom. Would you let this person in the bathroom with your wife and kids?


----------



## callmetaylor (Apr 20, 2016)

garbage said:


> Still missing my point there... I do not care how someone feels (well I do, but not in this regard). Just use the bathroom that correlates with the sex you were born as...why is this discriminatory?



Because it very likely has nothing to do with how they "feel" and has a physical/chemical cause somewhere, meaning it's far more than simply a feeling. 

Your argument is akin to saying "I don't care that this paranoid schizophrenic is talking about voices telling him there's an alien code to solve...that's just how he feels- you can't prove he has this alleged condition, so he needs to work a full time job and pull his own weight" or something. Meanwhile, the dude can't function at all and is totally disruptive...all because someone was so intent on grasping to their principles. An uninformed mass making demands of a group of people they know nothing about never goes over well. 

People recognize that simply waving off serious mental illnesses as mere "feelings" is ridiculous because science has finally reached a point that it could explain so much of what was previously not understood. 

That WILL happen in regards to the transgender issue some day. There is an explanation as to why people experience this, we just don't know what it is yet.


----------



## NPC (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I'm done defending myself against you bleeding heart liberals. Believe what you want,  I'll do the same.  But believe me,  if I see a man walking into the women's room while my wife or child is in there,  I'm going to make sure HE waits until my family is out of the bathroom.



Meanwhile, some woman is twiddling her bean in the neighboring stall to the sound of your daughter urinating. You're not safe and men aren't evil. The facts don't support your concerns, and you even admitted that this was just how you "felt." I think people went on a witch hunt after you, because it's the internet, but I also mostly agree with them. The ones that are scientifically correct at leaat.


----------



## callmetaylor (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I'm done defending myself against you bleeding heart liberals. Believe what you want,  I'll do the same.  But believe me,  if I see a man walking into the women's room while my wife or child is in there,  I'm going to make sure HE waits until my family is out of the bathroom.




i assure you, there are tons of trans people you would never be able to spot. You can't have it both ways. When you are so dead set on this ridiculous "people assumed at birth to be female should go in the women's room" argument you're gonna get some VERY masculine people showing up in those bathrooms.

So yea...try not to assault the bearded man that you don't know was born without a penis walking in the women's room- afterall, they're just doing exactly what you are demanding they do.


----------



## callmetaylor (Apr 20, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Meanwhile, some woman is twiddling her bean in the neighboring stall to the sound of your daughter urinating. You're not safe and men aren't evil. The facts don't support your concerns, and you even admitted that this was just how you "felt." I think people went on a witch hunt after you, because it's the internet, but I also mostly agree with them. The ones that are scientifically correct at leaat.




Exactly! So many men are wanting to talk about how the system can be sexist towards them when feminism is brought up, and yet so many men are equally brainwashed into believing men=sexual predators.

The fact that people are so concerned about men and women going to the bathroom behind locked (and secure- again- they need to get rid of those shitty stall doors that you can see through!) doors is so incredibly sad and TOTALLY unfair to men.


----------



## emayf (Apr 20, 2016)

garbage said:


> Still missing my point there... I do not care how someone feels (well I do, but not in this regard). Just use the bathroom that correlates with the sex you were born as...why is this discriminatory?


 _It is discriminatory. _Transgender people have the right to live as the sex they identify with.Just because someone is transgender doesn't mean they want to be a perv and spy on you.  Plenty of trans people do look like they were the gender they identify with and having them go into the restroom of the other gender they were born with can be traumatizing for them. This guy going into the ladies room would not only make him , uncomfortable  but other people uncomfortable too. Do you really think he belongs in the women's room?


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 20, 2016)

emayf said:


> _It is discriminatory. _Transgender people have the right to live a the sex they were born with. Just because someone is transgender doesn't mean they want to be a perv and spy on you.  Plenty of trans people do look like they were the gender they identify with and having them go into the restroom of the other gender be traumatizing. This guy going into the ladies room would not only make him , uncomfortable  but other people uncomfortable too. Do you really think he belongs in the women's room?



Funny how @KimJungUn wants this person in a bathroom with his wife and daughter, but my friend, who looks just as feminine as any other woman, would have to go into the men's room. Not really seeing the logic there.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Being father to a young girl,  I do see some harm in it. I'm not comfortable with someone that has a penis using the same restroom as my little girl.
> 
> If transgender people want their own bathrooms I'm fine with that,  build them a 3rd shitter. I just don't care what someone "identifies as", if you have a penis you don't belong in a women's restroom.


So how about gay people? Would you feel uncomfortable using a mens restroom with someone who's gay? Should they have their own restroom?

Also, I'd like sex offenders to have their own bathroom as well.

OP, I understand your intentions were good but it was a big mistake posting this thread in general target chat.


----------



## Phoenix26 (Apr 20, 2016)

I am a M-F Transsexual team member, If you ever met me you would never know I was born in a male body, but my mind has always been female. I have known it since I was a young kid, I transitioned in my 20's and I guarantee you I would cause a seen if I used a Men's Room. I have used the woman's room since I transitioned and guess what, no one has ever batted an eye or questioned it. Do we laws or policies saying specifically that Trans people can use the bathroom of their chose, I personally don't think its needed based my experiences, I think it is overkill and only needed for cross dressers, (Not the same as Transexuals as they only like to wear women's clothing and have no desire to change their gender.)

While I don't agree with anything that @KimJungUn has said in this Thread I will support his 1'st Amendment rights to say and believe what he wants.

My personal beliefs are as follows, I don't expect everyone to agree with them, but I feel that they should be put out there and *Are in no way an attack on anyones's personal views. Any one I tag below it is  highlight areas of my personal beliefs  in relation to topic the individual(s) may have brought up and then only  merely for the convenience of others who might be following this thread as a way of making it easier to follow.  *

To make the blanket statement that Being Trans is a choice for all, is like saying all that all gay men are feminine and flamboyant as they are portrayed on TV and in the movies. While it may be a choice for some it may not be for all. For me I have always felt as though I was born in the wrong body. The only choice I had was what to do about it. I could have suffered mental pain and anguish and done nothing, but I didn't want that. I took the necessary steps needed to correct what my Dr's agreed was needed to be comfortable in my own skin.  One thing I will pint out is not all trans people are the same, nor is the treatment for their condition. For me fully transitioning was what my Dr's and I felt was needed, while others are content to just dress as a woman or a man, heck some people who thought they might be Trans discover through Therepy that they are not. We are each different.

Now while @KimJungUn is Christian and has certain beliefs, not everyone does. There are differences of opinion in the Christian church on this matter not only between the different Christian Sects, (For example Episcopals, baptists, catholics, etc...) , but between different churches in those sects.  Many other religions have a different take on genders and there can be several different   Also We need to Remember that This Country unlike many in the world doesn't have a state religion. Our country's founders, many of who's families came to land seeking freedom from religious persecution,  spelled out in our constitution that there is a separation of church  and state.
I personally Feel that all the Social issues such as this, things like abortions, gay marriage, etc... don't belong in politics, shouldn't be something the states and federal government regulate. They are individual decisions and don't affect anyone but the individuals involved. Our country has bigger issues to deal with such as it's massive debt.

As for Target's policy on restrooms, gender equality, Coverage of Sexual Reassignment Surgery (which is covered for those who are not aware), etc.. They are a private company and should have the right to make the policies on these topics that they wish. Just like how I, as an individual have the right as a human being to decide what I wish to d with my Body!


----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 20, 2016)

Phoenix26 said:


> I am a M-F Transsexual team member, If you ever met me you would never know I was born in a male body, but my mind has always been female. I have known it since I was a young kid, I transitioned in my 20's and I guarantee you I would cause a seen if I used a Men's Room. I have used the woman's room since I transitioned and guess what, no one has ever batted an eye or questioned it. Do we laws or policies saying specifically that Trans people can use the bathroom of their chose, I personally don't think its needed based my experiences, I think it is overkill and only needed for cross dressers, (Not the same as Transexuals as they only like to wear women's clothing and have no desire to change their gender.)
> 
> While I don't agree with anything that @KimJungUn has said in this Thread I will support his 1'st Amendment rights to say and believe what he wants.
> 
> ...



I love this post. Thank you for sharing your experiences.


----------



## thenewgirl (Apr 20, 2016)

Just pee where you want to pee. The creeps that are trying to sneak peeks on people in the bathroom probably aren't transgender anyways.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 20, 2016)

I think what KimJung was trying to state was his discomfort with the idea of his daughter in a potentially vulnerable situation. As a Christian he has values he endorses and he has a right to. For the people who want change it appears your day is coming.


----------



## garbage (Apr 20, 2016)

I just do not understand what is so traumatic by using the restroom of your biological sex


emayf said:


> _It is discriminatory. _Transgender people have the right to live as the sex they identify with.Just because someone is transgender doesn't mean they want to be a perv and spy on you.  Plenty of trans people do look like they were the gender they identify with and having them go into the restroom of the other gender they were born with can be traumatizing for them. This guy going into the ladies room would not only make him , uncomfortable  but other people uncomfortable too. Do you really think he belongs in the women's room?


Yes, *SHE *belongs in the womens restroom. Restrooms are not separated on how people look or feel, they are separated by biological sex. If using a restroom that correlates with your biological sex is traumatic, then you need to see a shrink. 
Also, I never accused transpeople of being pervs.


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 20, 2016)

garbage said:


> I just do not understand what is so traumatic by using the restroom of your biological sex
> 
> Yes, *SHE *belongs in the womens restroom. Restrooms are not separated on how people look or feel, they are separated by biological sex. If using a restroom that correlates with your biological sex is traumatic, then you need to see a shrink.
> Also, I never accused transpeople of being pervs.


Except that when you were born male and now you look like:


Or like this FtM trans man:


You'd never be able to tell in the first place. Forcing someone who no longer conforms to the gender they were born to, to use the bathroom that corresponds to their birth gender leads to so many more problems. It opens them up to violence. As 2015 Sees A Record Number Of Documented Transgender Murders, A Glimmer Of Hope
http://www.bustle.com/articles/8745...er-suicide-and-violence-that-you-need-to-know
Why Transgender Americans Are Being Murdered


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 20, 2016)

Phoenix26 said:


> While I don't agree with anything that @KimJungUn has said in this Thread I will support his 1'st Amendment rights to say and believe what he wants.


The first amendment has to do with the government punishing people for their speech. That doesn't apply to private forums. People can use their freedom of speech to say how ridiculous someone else's speech is.


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 20, 2016)

LET PEOPLE PISS IN PEACE. God damn. No one lingers in public restrooms. In and out as fast as possible.


----------



## Sammy (Apr 20, 2016)

People need to calm down.   I am betting that we all have had a trans-gender person next to us in the stall.  Big deal.   People need to educate themselves.  They are not pedophiles or rapists.   Many beautiful women you may see walking around are actually men who may have not totally transitioned, which is fine.  If you saw one of them walk into a men's restroom because they are men on their birth certificates, you would think they are in the wrong restroom based on outwardly appearance.  Ignorance breeds fear.   I say bravo Target.


----------



## Quattro (Apr 20, 2016)

I'm all for shrinking the size of existing bathrooms.  Rather than multiple stalls in one bathroom, there's now just a single toilet.  Don't want to piss next to a trans person?  That's cool.  Now you don't have to piss next to _anyone_.  Now you can stand outside and wait in line for a bathroom to open up.  Might be 30 seconds for the person ahead of you to pee, or it might be 5 minutes for a TM's morning deuce.  But hey, as long as you don't have to pee next to a trans-person, right?


----------



## RedMan (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Being father to a young girl,  I do see some harm in it. I'm not comfortable with someone that has a penis using the same restroom as my little girl.
> 
> If transgender people want their own bathrooms I'm fine with that,  build them a 3rd shitter. I just don't care what someone "identifies as", if you have a penis you don't belong in a women's restroom.


But if you have a transgender bathroom, you will still have penises and vaginas in the same room.  Allowing people to use the bathroom they identify with reduces the anxiety for everyone - you won't know (and I hope you won't be peeking - that's rude!) and the trans person will be safe.  Where's the bad in this?


----------



## RedMan (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Because it's perverse and disgusting.  I shouldn't have to explain to a little girl why the "lady" in the bathroom with her was peeing standing up.


None of the ladies' restrooms that I've been in have urinals and I've been in a shit ton of ladies' restrooms (I'm old, not pervy).  If she is standing in the stall next to you, stop peeking!  Otherwise you wouldn't know.


----------



## Phoenix26 (Apr 20, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> The first amendment has to do with the government punishing people for their speech. Hat doesn't apply to private forums. People can use their freedom of speech to say how ridiculous someone else's speech is.


Still He was expressing an opinion and I fell that regardless of whether or not I agree with it, he should have the right to make it without being attacked. I am not for censorship.  If someone is personally targeting someone, then there should be consequences. If anything I have see more people attack @KimJungUn for having an opinion that differs from his. 
I personally don't feel attacked by him, or offended for that matter. Where in the rules of the forum does it state that if a person wishes to express an opinion they need to make sure that is a popular one?
Looking back over this thread I found several things I agree with him with. I believe that private businesses should have the right to refuses services to anyone. I for one do not want to force my ways on anyone especially if they are uncomfortable about it. If I ever choose to marry for example, I would never try and force anyplace to hold the ceremony. All I would care about is having my friends, and loved ones there. 
Heck I wouldn't force the government to recognize it. I personally feel that a civil union covers any rights to taxes, benefits, etc... I don't need a piece of paper that uses the word marriage. To me its just a word.   
One thing Americans on both sides of the political spectrum need to learn to do is to stop so one sided and getting all upset when someone doesn't agree with there opinion. For example, If I were liberal (I am not) and disagreed with someone on the christian right I might say they were bigots cause they judge others, by doing so I would be a bigot myself for telling them they are wrong and my way is right. 
I feel its best to let people have their own opinions and not judge them for them regardless if I agree or not as we live in a free society and should be able to state their opinion without judgement.

end of rant!


----------



## RedMan (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Thing is,  tranny isn't derogatory. It's a shortened form of TRANsexual.


You may not think it is derogatory, but it is.  Now that you know, you know better, mkay?


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 20, 2016)

I never said he doesn't have the right to his opinion, but people have the right to attack him for it if they don't agree. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences.


----------



## callmetaylor (Apr 20, 2016)

Plus a third bathroom opens up a huge chance of people being targeted. Who would willingly walk in to a bathroom created for a group so much of society still has such disdain for? I would be terrified- and how would you enforce it? I know if I was in that position I'd just go to the bathroom of the gender I identify with even if a third option was available...no way would I set myself up for someone to start shit with me because I "outed" myself.

Transgender people are the victims of hate crimes...a third bathroom would create a huge target for assholes.

Like someone else said- why don't gay people have their own bathrooms? Or sex offenders? Or people with a piss fetish? Because it's not necessary- the benefits wouldn't justify the inconvenience and the cost. Society can normally do a decent enough job of preventing things from escalating (and please understand that, aside from sex offenders, I'm not at all suggesting that these people are dangerous or perverted- I'm merely addressing concerns voiced by other people). Is someone in the next stall turned on by something? Possibly. But even in that super remote chance the chance of them acting on it is SO small because of the fear of being caught. 

I believe that most people who oppose this are NOT afraid of transgender people being attackers, but that it could allow cisgender people to slip in unnoticed and attack people, and I really just don't see that being any more of a risk with these advancements than it has been all along. 


(All of that sounded like I'm contradicting myself. If I believe that society polices itself well enough to avoid sexual attacks in bathrooms why do I bring up the chance of trans people being targeted as they walk out of a bathroom. Honestly, I don't have a good answer for that- just thinking out loud, I guess)


----------



## RedMan (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I will agree,  that if a state employee,  working in a state that allows gay unions,  had a problem,  they should find other work.
> 
> However in the case of private business,  unless that business utilizes federal money to operate,  they can serve our refuse to serve anyone for any reason. It's their decision.


Would it be okay for them to refuse business to men with scarred faces?


----------



## Life201 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> There is absolutely no more to gender than anatomy.  Like I said,  we're born XX or XY. Male or female.
> 
> No one has ever been born as a firetruck.
> 
> ...



There seems to be a lot more to gender than simply the XX or XY combination.

Does having a Y chromosome make someone a man? | Intersex Society of North America


Seeing a person wearing a dress, high heels & makeup in the men's room is less traumatic for children? 

For decades, women brought their young sons into the ladies room or fathers brought their young daughters into a male rest room & none of the children were scarred for life. I doubt they'll be scarred by seeing people who look like the same sex they do using the same rest room now.


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 20, 2016)

This video popped up in my subscriptions lmao. That timing.


----------



## Coqui (Apr 20, 2016)

Life isn't black and white. Grey exists and when that happens, people freak out and it becomes "offensive" because they refuse to understand what's always been there. Being transgender isn't a lifestyle, being vegan is.


----------



## Life201 (Apr 20, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> I never said he doesn't have the right to his opinion, but people have the right to attack him for it if they don't agree. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences.



People don't have a right to attack someone because they disagree - they have the right to attack the person's argument but not the person.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 20, 2016)

Life201 said:


> People don't have a right to attack someone because they disagree - they have the right to attack the person's argument but not the person.


That's what I meant. I never go around verbally attacking people.


----------



## imared (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> The point is, I don't want a man,  with a penis, using the same restroom as my little girl.



Can I ask you a question? Since you are, as you stated, a father to a little girl? When you are out alone with your daughter and she needs to go to the restroom, where does she go if there is no family restroom? If you take her into a communal restroom, then your argument holds no validity, since the men's restroom happens to be full of penises.


----------



## imared (Apr 20, 2016)

Back when I was in high school, there was a family that lived in our neighborhood. Dad, Mom, 10 year old son. Dad  gets arrested for approaching a young boy in the restroom and attempting to fondle him.  What would have "protected" this little kid? He was using the "correct" restroom.

It can happen anywhere, anytime, to anyone. The whole transgendered issue doesn't create new dangers, it just reminds us that for 99.9999% of the population, it's normal business as usual in the bathroom (meaning that sexual predators existed before all of this.)

I mind my own business when I go into a public restroom. Everyone should as well.


----------



## oath2order (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> She's not looking in closed stalls,  you do realize the majority of restrooms are outside the stall.  Sinks,  hand driers,  etc...



Except she's not gonna see a penis in that part of the restroom. Your point is moot. Next.


----------



## anathema (Apr 20, 2016)

The great thing is, even with pseudo-intellectual opinions like KimJungUn's, progress is being made. He can remove his kid from anything he chooses if he feels it'll do his child harm. He can do other stupid things like remove her from sex ed classes, not give her vaccines, stop her from holding a boy's hand, etc. If he needs to remove life experiences from his daughter so that he doesn't have to explain how real this world is and how quickly it's progressing because he doesn't have the balls to actually sit down and speak to his child, who are we to judge him?

Stopping progress for the sake of yet another boogeyman is boring. If you really don't like transgendered, gays, blacks, whatever, then just say that. We'll respect you (a little) more for it in the end.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 20, 2016)

Plot twist: His daughter comes out as transgender and he comes a prominent transgender rights activist


----------



## Redzee (Apr 20, 2016)

Redzee said:


> I think what KimJung was trying to state was his discomfort with the idea of his daughter in a potentially vulnerable situation. As a Christian he has values he endorses and he has a right to. For the people who want change it appears your day is coming.


----------



## anathema (Apr 20, 2016)

That's great that you can quote yourself, but it doesn't conflict with what I said. Not sure who else you're directing it to in that instance. There's 10 billion things per day that make you potentially vulnerable, most of us live in it to avoid becoming hermits, living in the woods and rounding out sharp table edges. A man dressed as a lady taking a piss in a stall is probably on the lower-end of 'potentially vulnerable situations'. There's always people trying to take advantage of any given situation, but the benefits vastly outweigh the risks.

No one is trying to take away his values, but if it conflicts with progress, don't be offended if people dismiss parts of it. Your daughter will grow in a vastly different world than most of us did.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 20, 2016)

So now, people want people who look like men to use the women's restroom because they used to be women. So...that means a man could claim he used to be a woman and then go into the woman's restroom. How is this any "safer" for the kids?


----------



## imared (Apr 20, 2016)

I just thought of something else.

Target (and other retailers) have unisex fitting rooms. People strip down in these, right next to people of the opposite sex, only separated by a thin sheet of MDF. Why no uproar about these?  Heck, Old Navy has fitting rooms on the sales floor that are glorified shower stalls with shower curtains shielding them. WTH is it about pooping and peeing that freaks people out?


----------



## melvin (Apr 20, 2016)

imared said:


> I just thought of something else.
> 
> Target (and other retailers) have unisex fitting rooms. People strip down in these, right next to people of the opposite sex, only separated by a thin sheet of MDF. Why no uproar about these?  Heck, Old Navy has fitting rooms on the sales floor that are glorified shower stalls with shower curtains shielding them. WTH is it about pooping and peeing that freaks people out?



You can try to socially engineer and shame people however you wish, but most women will always be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with males, particularly males they do not know. I suspect males will mostly be uncomfortable with gender neutral bathrooms because they will fear that the prospect of being accused of some sort of inappropriate behavior or harassment will jump exponentially. A couple common situations in men's rooms off the top of my head strike me as grounds for such accusations from overly sensitive, mentally imbalanced individuals. Why would either gender subject themselves to that if there is still an option for gender-segregated facilities? Plus, on top of everything else, why would I want to give up the luxury of having short lines at the restroom at the ball game for long lines if we begin having inter-sex restrooms as the rule, not the exception?


----------



## sunshineyellow (Apr 20, 2016)

I don't see what the alternative is- check genitals before allowing entrance? Require everyone to submit to a DNA test before assigning them the correct bathroom? It's not like it's obvious who is transgender, so it's a moot point, really.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I will agree, that if a state employee, *working in a state that allows gay unions,* had a problem, they should find other work.


Overlooked this earlier but I'm sure you're aware that the Supremes ruled that same-sex marriage is a nation-wide right & everyone remembers Kim Davis' refusal to carry out her duties because of her deeply-held beliefs.
These laws passed in NC, Mississippi, et al are just an end-run to justify a refusal to treat people equally under the guise of 'faith'. 
And all the remarks about someone 'standing to pee' in a women's restroom stall, any transitioning folk I've spoken with have told me they can & do 'sit to pee'.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 20, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I'll pray for you.



Why don't you volunteer at LGBT shelter, animal shelter, homeless shelter instead. Praying to a made up god doesn't do anything for anyone.


----------



## melvin (Apr 20, 2016)

sunshineyellow said:


> I don't see what the alternative is- check genitals before allowing entrance? Require everyone to submit to a DNA test before assigning them the correct bathroom? *It's not like it's obvious who is transgender, so it's a moot point, really.*



This is a quintessential example of something that sounds good to say, and everyone nods their heads in solemn agreement, but everyone knows isn't true. In fact, most of the time, you and I and everyone else recognizes right away when someone has taken, or attempted to take on, the identity of the opposite gender.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 20, 2016)

http://jezebel.com/5840016/woman-sentenced-to-prison-for-beating-transgender-woman-in-mcdonalds


----------



## callmetaylor (Apr 20, 2016)

Not to get off topic, but the best part of that Jezebel article was the fact that that woman had been arrested at the SAME McDonalds a year earlier. People are weird.


----------



## melvin (Apr 20, 2016)

Bosch said:


> Why don't you volunteer at LGBT shelter, animal shelter, homeless shelter instead. Praying to a made up god doesn't do anything for anyone.



Maybe he or she already does? One could easily perform acts of mercy like the ones you mention and still have time to express disagreement with your point of view on this issue based upon his/her religious beliefs or even out of simple skepticism. I fall into the latter category, myself. Unfortunately, this issue has been politicized to such an extent that we will probably never know precisely what is happening in the brains of these folks.


----------



## squirrely (Apr 21, 2016)

I personally don't see the big deal about this. I'm not sure if it was written policy, but I feel Target would allow for this prior to today. I cannot see them ever allowing team members to tell a transgender person to use the bathroom of the gender they were born with. 

So yeah, this may be news to the rest of the world, but I doubt it is to anyone who works there.


----------



## griezmanns (Apr 21, 2016)

I honestly can't understand why so many people get annoyed by stuff like this. 

Public restrooms are still gonna be public restrooms. They're still gonna smell like a weird mix of pee, crap and Lysol, they're still going to have toilet paper on the floor instead of the toilet, the sinks aren't going to have enough water pressure and sometimes they're out of soap and/or paper towels. And unless you're having obnoxiously personal conversations with the person in the stall next to you about their assigned gender at birth while you're using the bathroom, your overall experience in a public restroom will not change. 

I feel like too much of the general public is so concerned about the ~sanctity of the gender-segregated public restroom~.

Anyways, it's cool Target is doing this. If only it led to cleaner bathrooms and less complaints that the bathroom is dirty... One can dream.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 21, 2016)

That awkward moment when you realise people care more wbout regulating bathrooms then guns.


----------



## tgtguy (Apr 21, 2016)

Everyone has the right to their own viewpoints. Personally, I just find it sad that in this day and age what people do in the bathroom is such a big deal. Could you imagine the world we would live in...If a fraction of all the energy and emotion being spent on bathrooms was channeled for something that was a "big deal". How many homeless people could have homes? How many hungry children could have food ? I assure you there are much bigger issues in the world than who is using what bathroom.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 21, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Perhaps instead of worrying about what dress Bruce Jenner wore to a Hollywood event* (or who uses which restroom)*, we should worry about real issues.
> 
> Terrorism
> Economic stability
> ...


FIFY


----------



## Kartman (Apr 21, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> you do realize the majority of restrooms are outside the stall.  Sinks,  hand driers,  etc...



Why would anyone's genitalia be exposed at the sink? Hand dryer? Etc?



KimJungUn said:


> I'll pray for you.



And I'll be sure to write a letter to Santa Claus for you this December.


----------



## Doglover89 (Apr 21, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> It's funny, I'm labeled as a bigot,  being closed minded and hateful.  Yet, I'm the one being called names,  having false words/meaning attributed to me and being railroaded for expressing my Christian beliefs.



Why are you working for a liberal company like Target? I wouldn't choose to work for a Christian company such as Chic Fil A or Hobby Lobby because my views are very different from those companies'.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 21, 2016)

melvin said:


> This is a quintessential example of something that sounds good to say, and everyone nods their heads in solemn agreement, but everyone knows isn't true. In fact, most of the time, you and I and everyone else recognizes right away when someone has taken, or attempted to take on, the identity of the opposite gender.


It's pretty clear that you've seen transgenders and never knew it.   Maybe you're confusing transgender with transvestite, although Tim Curry could have given you a run for your money.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 21, 2016)

So...can we have a new TL position:  GITL: KimJungUn could stand at the door to the restrooms and do genitalia inspection and DNA testing to make sure everyone is in the right potty.  Or we could have melvin stand outside and play *guess the DNA* which would be pretty entertaining in itself.  

Melvin:  you, you, you, you pass.   You?  I'm no so sure - could go either way - please pee at Walmart.


----------



## Kompa (Apr 21, 2016)

I identify as a dragon irl so which bathroom do I use?


----------



## Backroom81 (Apr 21, 2016)

Can no longer resist urge to post copypasta...

I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m fucking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Apache” and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.


----------



## Havok (Apr 21, 2016)

I can't wait to see urinals in the womens restroom and tampons in the mens restrooms.


----------



## DoWork (Apr 21, 2016)

Just redesign bathrooms. A bunch of stalls, then a fully open area with a sink. Boom. Done. Problem solved. I feel uncomfortable around my own gender, and this would solve my problem, too.

Genders don't bother me too much. People who make fucking messes do. Both genders have those assholes. All age groups do, too. Fucking animals.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 21, 2016)

The cart attendant tried stopping me from going into the men's room and on this day I was reminded I'm one of those people who can't pass as gender neutral.


----------



## thenewgirl (Apr 21, 2016)

squirrely said:


> I personally don't see the big deal about this. I'm not sure if it was written policy, but I feel Target would allow for this prior to today. I cannot see them ever allowing team members to tell a transgender person to use the bathroom of the gender they were born with.
> 
> So yeah, this may be news to the rest of the world, but I doubt it is to anyone who works there.


I'm almost certain I read that somewhere. That the policy hasn't changed. They just made a statement on it.


----------



## Apapaia (Apr 21, 2016)

Why can't we talk about the real issue here?! When are we going to get paid according to the paygrade we identify with?!
Jokes aside, I'm happy Target picked a side especially a side that reflects the inclusive environment and business we always talk about. Thumbs up for spot!


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

RedMan said:


> So...can we have a new TL position:  GITL: KimJungUn could stand at the door to the restrooms and do genitalia inspection and DNA testing to make sure everyone is in the right potty.  Or we could have melvin stand outside and play *guess the DNA* which would be pretty entertaining in itself.
> 
> Melvin:  you, you, you, you pass.   You?  I'm no so sure - could go either way - please pee at Walmart.



That's a fairly impressive imagination. Kudos.

Now, back to reality. I'm under no illusions that anything can be policed with regards to who uses which bathrooms in our current climate. The folks who want this will get what they want and indeed are getting what they want. I sit here as a skeptic who looks at much of this with amusement.

To wit: ‘Transparent’ crew upset with gender-neutral bathrooms


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

RedMan said:


> It's pretty clear that you've seen transgenders and never knew it.   Maybe you're confusing transgender with transvestite, although Tim Curry could have given you a run for your money.



Yep, this is another examples of something people say that makes them feel good but they know it isn't true.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 21, 2016)

melvin said:


> Yep, this is another examples of something people say that makes them feel good but they know it isn't true.


Actually, I have friends who are transgender, and you would never know it.


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

jb08045 said:


> I identify as a dragon irl so which bathroom do I use?



Believing you are a dragon? Completely irrational. Believing your arm or leg is not really your own? Again, irrational. Believing you were born with the wrong sex organs? Totally rational.


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> Actually, I have friends who are transgender, and you would never know it.



Oh, without question there are some folks who really could pass for the opposite gender. The vast majority? Not even close.


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 21, 2016)

We are not here to judge. Everything is a choice. Mods, can move this topic to off the clock?


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 21, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> I've said my peace,  I feel the way I feel. I don't have to defend myself for having moral convictions for wanting to protect my child from perverts.
> 
> I feel that these people who voluntarily mutilate their body are mentally ill.


If you think a sign on a door will protect your Girl from perverts you are sadly mistaken. People will do what they want to get what they want. And No one can stop someone from using the oppsoite sex's restroom, as we have no right to prove they are not that sex. You are trying to stereotype people , and assuming People will just use the restrooms to prey on people. And your excuse about you do not want to have to explain anatomy, that is on you. That should not be the burden of those who want to not feel like outcast, which you are making them feel like outcast with your thinking. Do not like it do not use the public restrooms, and instead use an alternative source. Get over it because it is the way of the future.


----------



## Amaazingdude (Apr 21, 2016)

Just have one restroom for everyone. Problem solved.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 21, 2016)

Amaazingdude said:


> I have no problem with them using the bathroom. The only problem I have is if a men went into the women's restroom and got totally naked. He could say he was just getting dressed and is transgender. At least two female coworkers that I know of at my store get dressed in the women's room, and don't use stalls. What is stopping a prev from exposing his penis in front of children and hide behind transgender laws ?


Why...would someone get dressed....not in the stall.

Aside from that. A woman can do the exact same thing. Men aren't the only pervs out there idk why it's always about dicks.


----------



## Amaazingdude (Apr 21, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> Why...would someone get dressed....not in the stall.
> 
> Aside from that. A woman can do the exact same thing. Men aren't the only pervs out there idk why it's always about dicks.


Good question. They claim they have more room. The stalls at my store are tiny


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 21, 2016)

Amaazingdude said:


> I have no problem with them using the bathroom. The only problem I have is if a men went into the women's restroom and got totally naked. He could say he was just getting dressed and is transgender. At least two female coworkers that I know of at my store get dressed in the women's room, and don't use stalls. What is stopping a prev from exposing his penis in front of children and hide behind transgender laws ? I believe trans people should be able to use whatever restroom they wish, but how do we stop the abuse. Today at my store we had a group of frat guys walk into the women's restroom, laughing. They all said they were tran :/ people will abuse it


First, there's a difference between whipping out a dick and changing clothes. Who changes their underwear to work? Secondly, how in the world do you know they aren't using the stalls? Good grief, I always used the stalls to change when I needed to.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 21, 2016)

Amaazingdude said:


> Good question. They claim they have more room. The stalls at my store are tiny


The more logical option would be the fitting room in that case. Or the stall for disabled people. Like, I just think it's weird overall to undress in front of strangers and if my coworkers were doing that I would be like "buddy pal friend the fitting room is over there"


----------



## oath2order (Apr 21, 2016)

Donald Trump Supports Caitlyn Jenner and Other Trans People's Right to Use Any Bathroom They Feel Comfortable In on I Am Cait

Y'know, Trump actually said something good about trans people and the bathroom debacle.



> Drumpf then said, "There have been very few complaints the way it is. People go, they use the bathroom that they feel is appropriate, there has been so little trouble."
> 
> Today show co-host Matt Lauer then asked Drumpf, "Do you have any transgender people working in your organization?"
> 
> "I don't know, I really don't know," Drumpf told Lauer. "I probably do, I really don't know."



He could not care less about who uses what bathrooms. Finally, this turd says something positive.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 21, 2016)

melvin said:


> Yep, this is another examples of something people say that makes them feel good but they know it isn't true.


No, I actually feel pretty bad that this even has to be said in 2016.  Could you please cite your references on "the vast majority," please?  I call BS.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 21, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Donald Trump Supports Caitlyn Jenner and Other Trans People's Right to Use Any Bathroom They Feel Comfortable In on I Am Cait
> 
> Y'know, Trump actually said something good about trans people and the bathroom debacle.
> 
> ...


Even a broken clock is right twice a day...


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 21, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Donald Trump Supports Caitlyn Jenner and Other Trans People's Right to Use Any Bathroom They Feel Comfortable In on I Am Cait
> 
> Y'know, Trump actually said something good about trans people and the bathroom debacle.
> 
> ...


Huh. Color me surprised.


----------



## 60SecondsRemaining (Apr 21, 2016)

Tldr;

Who gives a shit?  Go in, do your thing, leave.  There's fucking doors on the stalls, no different than the one to the restroom.  Close the door, problem solved.

People have a habit of making problems out of things that don't matter, like where to take a shit.

Realistically *it doesn't fucking matter.  At all.*


----------



## RedMan (Apr 21, 2016)

I don't have a problem with gender-neutral bathrooms, as long as those are no bathrooms specifically for transgenders.  We can have one or two or even three, IF the third is designated Family.


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

RedMan said:


> No, I actually feel pretty bad that this even has to be said in 2016.  Could you please cite your references on "the vast majority," please?  I call BS.



Here's a poll cited by HuffPo, which, if you don't visit there, pretty much puts on a full-court press shaming campaign trying to browbeat people towards embracing all of this.

Frankly, I would be surprised if it isn't higher than 59%. I have little doubt if you asked Americans, "Do you want your daughter sharing a bathroom with a person who is anatomically a man," it would probably run in the 80s. Perhaps in the 90s for feminists, provided that they could answer anonymously.

Poll Shows The Majority Of Americans Oppose Transgender People Using Preferred Bathroom


----------



## RedMan (Apr 21, 2016)

melvin said:


> Here's a poll cited by HuffPo, which, if you don't visit there, pretty much puts on a full-court press shaming campaign trying to browbeat people towards embracing all of this.
> 
> Frankly, I would be surprised if it isn't higher than 59%. I have little doubt if you asked Americans, "Do you want your daughter sharing a bathroom with a person who is anatomically a man," it would probably run in the 80s. Perhaps in the 90s for feminists, provided that they could answer anonymously.
> 
> Poll Shows The Majority Of Americans Oppose Transgender People Using Preferred Bathroom


I'm sorry that you misunderstood.  I asked for a reference as to your "the vast majority" as being identifiable transgenders.  I'm not a bit surprised at the number of people who oppose this stance - I'm originally from Mississippi and they are so terrified of dicks that they applaud their new law giving the right to discriminate against anyone for any reason if you say you're uncomfortable because of your religion.


----------



## LisaB (Apr 21, 2016)

How many people peek over the stall to see what plumbing the person next to them has?


----------



## NPC (Apr 21, 2016)

Mega restrooms! Let's make it happen! I just picture them like restrooms at the movie theaters. They have the best restrooms. It would be so much more easy and efficient to just have one bathroom.


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

RedMan said:


> I'm sorry that you misunderstood.  I asked for a reference as to your "the vast majority" as being identifiable transgenders.  I'm not a bit surprised at the number of people who oppose this stance - I'm originally from Mississippi and they are so terrified of dicks that they applaud their new law giving the right to discriminate against anyone for any reason if you say you're uncomfortable because of your religion.



We're in the middle of a discussion of an issue that is virtually bereft of anything approaching scientific evidence. I will more than cop to the admission that I have no poll or study on this particular claim. If you are really interested, post some picture of some trans people and some non-trans people, and see how many can correctly pick who is who. I have confidence in the ability of people of all ages to accurately choose at a high rate. It would be an interesting study. You might not, however, like the results.

And, again, I don't approach this from a religious standpoint. I approach it with skepticism.


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

LisaB said:


> How many people peek over the stall to see what plumbing the person next to them has?



Does this include members of Congress?


----------



## LisaB (Apr 21, 2016)

A guest asked me today as I was ringing her up "What's up with your bathrooms now" "Are they going to be unisex?"
I said that Target's press release was to clarify that people are welcome to use the bathroom that best matches the gender they identify with.
She asked if a guy in a dress would be allowed in the ladies bathroom and I said, "if he thinks he's a woman, yes".  
She said that she can't shop here if we let that happen.  I said that Target wants all guests to feel comfortable, and apologised and told her that she could email the corporate website.  

Later I asked my ETL what was the policy and she said that we can say "Target welcomes diversity" but to not engage in a conversation, that the guest can call Media Relations. @ 612-696-3400

I'm surprised that we did not have specific instructions given to us.  This is something that not everyone will know how to handle if they're caught off guard.    I was diplomatic and neutral because I already knew about the press release however some cashiers at work today had no knowledge of it.

That's not to say that inside my head I wasn't thinking "biatch, you have no idea what kind of plumbing the person has in the stall next to you, what makes you so concerned about it now?!?"  But ... diplomacy and the desire to keep my job won out.


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

If no one should care who is sharing a bathroom, then why should a transgendered person care about going into men's or women's-only bathrooms? And, furthermore, if you generally cannot tell who is and who is not, then there really is no issue, is there? Of course, we all know better than that and this is why we have pressure to create gender-neutral bathrooms. Because you indeed can often tell if someone was born a man or woman and is now trying to identify as the other gender.


----------



## Rock Lobster (Apr 21, 2016)

melvin said:


> Maybe he or she already does? One could easily perform acts of mercy like the ones you mention and still have time to express disagreement with your point of view on this issue based upon his/her religious beliefs or even out of simple skepticism. I fall into the latter category, myself. Unfortunately, this issue has been politicized to such an extent that we will probably never know precisely what is happening in the brains of these folks.



Skepticism means following the evidence through an honest appraisal of information, while doubting information that does not achieve this standard.  It means going for the answer and not being happy until it passes the test.  You have made it clear that you are not looking for answers with a skeptic's lens.



melvin said:


> If no one should care who is sharing a bathroom, then why should a transgendered person care about going into men's or women's-only bathrooms? And, furthermore, if you generally cannot tell who is and who is not, then there really is no issue, is there? Of course, we all know better than that and this is why we have pressure to create gender-neutral bathrooms. Because you indeed can often tell if someone was born a man or woman and is now trying to identify as the other gender.



They care because its a purposeful discriminatory act against their identity.  They should be able to use any restroom they want.  I think John Oliver put it best, that there is a reason we have two VERY general pictures on the doors to restrooms (stickman or stickwoman with a dress).  Its because they are to point you to the right one in the most general sense.  We don't put pictures of actual genitalia on the doors because that is not what actually matters.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 21, 2016)

I knew I loved John Oliver.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 21, 2016)

melvin said:


> We're in the middle of a discussion of an issue that is virtually bereft of anything approaching scientific evidence. I will more than cop to the admission that I have no poll or study on this particular claim. If you are really interested, post some picture of some trans people and some non-trans people, and see how many can correctly pick who is who. I have confidence in the ability of people of all ages to accurately choose at a high rate. It would be an interesting study. You might not, however, like the results.
> 
> And, again, I don't approach this from a religious standpoint. I approach it with skepticism.


There's actually lots of scientific evidence regarding gender issues, but you choose to ignore it.  That's okay.  On the first page of this thread, there's a picture of a Female to Male and a Male to Female.  I'll find some pix and post them and we'll see how you do.  It'll probably be tomorrow because I'm pretty much done for today.


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

Rock Lobster said:


> Skepticism means following the evidence through an honest appraisal of information, while doubting information that does not achieve this standard.  It means going for the answer and not being happy until it passes the test.  You have made it clear that you are not looking for answers with a skeptic's lens.



You could not be more incorrect. Until quite recently, I would have agreed with the dominant opinions in this thread. Being honest with myself, I was not looking at the issue skeptically.



Rock Lobster said:


> They care because its a purposeful discriminatory act against their identity.  They should be able to use any restroom they want.  I think John Oliver put it best, that there is a reason we have two VERY general pictures on the doors to restrooms (stickman or stickwoman with a dress).  Its because they are to point you to the right one in the most general sense.  We don't put pictures of actual genitalia on the doors because that is not what actually matters.



We discriminate all the time. Sometimes it is rational, sometimes it is irrational. Is it irrational to preclude boys from playing on girl's basketball teams, for instance? Is that (gasp!) act of (gasp!) "purposeful discrimination" immoral? 

We don't put pictures of genitalia on bathroom doors because our culture finds that sort of public display objectionable. 

If we woke up tomorrow and the whole Jon Stewart model of news/topical moralizing under the guise of comedy went away, we'd all be better for it. We'd also be spared the sort of vapid twaddle Oliver offered up in that example.


----------



## Rock Lobster (Apr 21, 2016)

melvin said:


> You could not be more incorrect. Until quite recently, I would have agreed with the dominant opinions in this thread. Being honest with myself, I was not looking at the issue skeptically.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You offer up a good example actually.  Is it bad to have a boys basketball team and a girls basketball team?   Nope.  Is it bad to tell a boy that since he was born a girl he has to play on the girls basketball team?  Would it embarrass him to have to play with all the girls?  See the difference here?  Do you see why we are telling them to use the restroom they identify with?  Do I think the person who forces the boy to play on the girls basketball team is insensitive and incapable of basic empathy and reasoning?  Yep!


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

RedMan said:


> There's actually lots of scientific evidence regarding gender issues, but you choose to ignore it.  That's okay.  On the first page of this thread, there's a picture of a Female to Male and a Male to Female.  I'll find some pix and post them and we'll see how you do.  It'll probably be tomorrow because I'm pretty much done for today.



There indeed is a mountain of evidence on the stark differences between males and females courtesy of neuroscience and cognitive psychology. The stuff coming out of arts & humanities is justly called "anti-science."


----------



## melvin (Apr 21, 2016)

Rock Lobster said:


> You offer up a good example actually.  Is it bad to have a boys basketball team and a girls basketball team?   Nope.  Is it bad to tell a boy that since he was born a girl he has to play on the girls basketball team?  Would it embarrass him to have to play with all the girls?  See the difference here?  Do you see why we are telling them to use the restroom they identify with?  Do I think the person who forces the boy to play on the girls basketball team is insensitive and incapable of basic empathy and reasoning?  Yep!



Ah, so now embarrassment is the crucial variable. Remind me again why the embarrassment of a transgender person is a legitimate reason for nondiscriminatory (allegedly) bathroom arrangements, but the embarrassment of non-transgender individuals is not? In one case, it is regarded in the gravest of terms. In the other, the message is, "Get over it."


----------



## thenewgirl (Apr 21, 2016)

LisaB said:


> A guest asked me today as I was ringing her up "What's up with your bathrooms now" "Are they going to be unisex?"
> I said that Target's press release was to clarify that people are welcome to use the bathroom that best matches the gender they identify with.
> She asked if a guy in a dress would be allowed in the ladies bathroom and I said, "if he thinks he's a woman, yes".
> She said that she can't shop here if we let that happen.  I said that Target wants all guests to feel comfortable, and apologised and told her that she could email the corporate website.
> ...


I was kinda surprised nothing was said about it also


----------



## Kompa (Apr 21, 2016)

melvin said:


> Believing you are a dragon? Completely irrational. Believing your arm or leg is not really your own? Again, irrational. Believing you were born with the wrong sex organs? Totally rational.


How so? Can you prove in anyway I don't idenify as a dragon? I got extra flesh waited to transplanted as wings and I drink a lot of flammable liquid and spit it infront of a lighter. 

What are you, a dragonphobe?


----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 21, 2016)

jb08045 said:


> How so? Can you prove in anyway I don't idenify as a dragon? I got extra flesh waited to transplanted as wings and I drink a lot of flammable liquid and spit it infront of a lighter.
> 
> What are you, a dragonphobe?



Dude, you are a fucking dragon. I don't think anyone is going to stop you from using whatever bathroom you please.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 21, 2016)

Friendly reminder that otherkin do in fact exist


----------



## AllThingsTarget101 (Apr 21, 2016)

The amount of phone calls I have received as LOD the last few days saying it is personally my fault and I'm contributing to the reasons why the world/America is fucked up is unbelievable.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 21, 2016)

It's funny tho cos a crap ton of companies have supported this kind of thing for years but haven't made an official statement. imagine if every single company that supports the lgbtq+ community made a statement 

it would be hilarious


----------



## sunshineyellow (Apr 22, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> It's funny tho cos a crap ton of companies have supported this kind of thing for years but haven't made an official statement. imagine if every single company that supports the lgbtq+ community made a statement
> 
> it would be hilarious



People would be forced to do all their shopping at Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby.

Because only in these fine establishments will you be able to shop safely, comfortable in the knowledge that your children are protected.
Protected because these stores will resort to checking everyone's birth certificates before allowing entry into their restrooms. 

...Or likely just leave it to people to choose their restroom. Just like they do at Target. Like they do everywhere.


----------



## IndominusTaco (Apr 22, 2016)

I'll just leave this here for all the people in this thread who clearly have never taken a high school psychology class.

Sex = what you were born with, what's between your legs
Gender = What you identify yourself as


----------



## Arkhifoxx (Apr 22, 2016)

IndominusTaco said:


> I'll just leave this here for all the people in this thread who clearly have never taken a high school psychology class.
> 
> Sex = what you were born with, what's between your legs
> Gender = What you identify yourself as



To further define each term, Sex is determined based upon one's primary sexual characteristics (penis, vagina, ovaries, testes). Gender is a socially constructed idea which is based upon set ideas and roles prescribed to each gender in a society. While sex is a bit more cut and dry, it's not binary as intersexuality is a common reality. Gender is not universal in all cultures. Some prime examples being the Hijra, the Fa'fafine, Kathoey, and the Balkan sworn virgins. 

In countries such as New Zealand, the government officially recognizes both three sex markers (male, female, indeterminant) and three gender markers (Male, female, gender diverse). Austrailia recognizes the gender marker "X". 

The "American" idea of gender is one which is not universal.


----------



## Guest (Apr 22, 2016)

His answer is pretty much how most Americans feel about the restrooms non story.


----------



## Streetdate (Apr 22, 2016)

Danielleinok said:


> I was kinda surprised nothing was said about it also



Odd. We were literally given a script at my store.

If a guest asks which bathroom to use: "Target welcomes you to use the bathroom that corresponds with your gender identity."

If a transgender guest is made to feel uncomfortable in their bathroom of choice: "We're sorry you were made to feel that way, and Target welcomes you to use the bathroom etc."

If a guest is made uncomfortable by the presence of a transgender individual: "We're sorry you were made to feel that way, and Target welcomes guest to use the bathroom etc."

If they wanted to complain further, we call the LOD and they give them the same speech with the added guest relations number if necessary. 

If approached by media, call an LOD but don't say anything other than, "I'm not the right person to talk to, let me get you a manager." Especially don't say, "No comment."

All phone calls on the issue were immediately directed to LOD.

At no point are we supposed to engage in a conversation or give our personal opinion on the matter to a guest.


----------



## Jeremy1818 (Apr 22, 2016)

AllThingsTarget101 said:


> The amount of phone calls I have received as LOD the last few days saying it is personally my fault and I'm contributing to the reasons why the world/America is fucked up is unbelievable.


I feel your pain


----------



## AdItemOnly (Apr 22, 2016)

gender schmender, everybodys shit stinks the same to me


----------



## RedMan (Apr 22, 2016)

Which one are you afraid of, Melvin?


----------



## RedMan (Apr 22, 2016)

How bout this girl?  Afraid of her?


----------



## RedMan (Apr 22, 2016)

I'm not going to post other photos because I think it's belittling to the trans community.  But I'm curious to know what you think, Melvin.


----------



## Kompa (Apr 22, 2016)

A co worker today that is male used the female bathroom today. He was born male and always acted as such. Someone told on him and he got pulled into the team Lead office. He pretty much told them that he was going to identify as female for now on.

He didn't get in trouble lmao


----------



## MobileMythbuster (Apr 22, 2016)

Stop Using Your Children As An Excuse To Be A Hateful Human Being



Found this earlier today. I think it is an amazing response to some of the nonsense invthis thread.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 22, 2016)

jb08045 said:


> A co worker today that is male used the female bathroom today. He was born male and always acted as such. Someone told on him and he got pulled into the team Lead office. He pretty much told them that he was going to identify as female for now on.
> 
> He didn't get in trouble lmao


If that happens at my store I am out the door. But not because of the transgender issue.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 22, 2016)

jb08045 said:


> A co worker today that is male used the female bathroom today. He was born male and always acted as such. Someone told on him and he got pulled into the team Lead office. He pretty much told them that he was going to identify as female for now on.
> 
> He didn't get in trouble lmao


I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up in a similar situation tho

When I got interviewed I didn't say a thing about my gender nor my name preference because I was honestly afraid of what they would say about it (I know it's illegal to discriminate for it but you know). In fact I didn't say anything about it for the first 7 or so months I was there. Finally I snapped and was essentially like "guys stop calling me a she I hate it" (feel free to call me out on this one all you'd like because I know I identify as genderfluid, but something about being called a girl just doesn't feel right like 80% of the time) so my GSTL starting to jokingly call me "sir" which I mean I took because it was a start even if I'd prefer they/them like I told them. The only ones who really know are a few of the front end team, and only one barista in starbucks has made an effort to call me by the name I want to be called. So if I ever try to use the men's room again and they don't know I just might end up getting pulled aside.

Anyways moral of the story is that guy might be in a similar situation where he wasn't out or he's actually being a douche and abusing the system but I don't know the dude at all


----------



## thetargetman (Apr 22, 2016)

I can already see the bad people taking advantage of this pretending to be transgendered!


----------



## NPC (Apr 22, 2016)

RedMan said:


> Which one are you afraid of, Melvin?



How about the one giving the death stare to the camera? She looks like she'd kick your ass if you did something to her Starbucks.


----------



## NPC (Apr 22, 2016)

Some of the old people are work have been expressing their opinions on the matter. They'll start a conversation with a very specific tone, as if to say, "You hear about the bathroom stuff? Hehe...silly, amirite?" It's very uncomfortable. Lol.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 22, 2016)

jb08045 said:


> A co worker today that is male used the female bathroom today. He was born male and always acted as such. Someone told on him and he got pulled into the team Lead office. He pretty much told them that he was going to identify as female for now on.
> 
> He didn't get in trouble lmao


Bet he did.  Just wait and see what HR does.

After thinking about it for a while, I guess I really don't care if he wants to pee with us girls.  I'd prefer that he use a stall instead of the lav but if he wants to wave his pee-pee around in front of me to judge, more power to him.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 22, 2016)

thetargetman said:


> I can already see the bad people taking advantage of this pretending to be transgendered!


Yeah my store. However the first time one of these goofs encounters a calling card from Auntie Flo he'll probably sound a retreat.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 22, 2016)

Friend of mine at the service desk has already had plenty of the 'token' outraged protesters come by.
She offers to call the LOD but they beat a hasty retreat.
They just want to put on a spectacle so they can tell their friends, much like the 'ban on Christmas' crap & every other social parade that fades to a ripple.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 22, 2016)

Ah social warriors.


----------



## On6 (Apr 22, 2016)

RedMan said:


> Bet he did.  Just wait and see what HR does.
> 
> After thinking about it for a while, I guess I really don't care if he wants to pee with us girls.  I'd prefer that he use a stall instead of the lav but if he wants to wave his pee-pee around in front of me to judge, more power to him.


Unless HR wants to open Target Corporation up to a huge lawsuit I doubt they do anything. Yes people will abuse this but it's one of those things Target will not call their bluff on. It's honestly not worth the aftermath.


----------



## BlueSide (Apr 22, 2016)

Last year a hidden cam was found in the women's restroom at a Target near me. Good job Target corp. way to make it easier for the sick fuck.

Ya know, we could've supported gender equality without making this public statement.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 22, 2016)

The team that pees together stays together. Sorry my husband and I have been laughing ourselves silly. Honestly I don't mean to be insensitive.


----------



## callmetaylor (Apr 22, 2016)

BlueSide said:


> Last year a hidden cam was found in the women's restroom at a Target near me. Good job Target corp. way to make it easier for the sick fuck.
> 
> Ya know, we could've supported gender equality without making this public statement.




...exactly. A hidden camera was found _*LAST YEAR *_...crazy stuff has been happening all along- the chances of this actually changing anything is incredibly minimal. Will people be immature assholes and try to be funny about it at first? Probably. Sounds like that may have already happened at jb08045's store, but I can't fathom this really bringing any extra negative experiences in the long run. 

Creeps have always been creeps and will always be creeps. They never asked for permission before, they never had any intention of asking permission in the future. Plain and simple: creeps are creeps are creeps.


----------



## NPC (Apr 22, 2016)

Man, I am just itching for a guest to complain about it to me. It hasn't happened yet. I don't plan on telling them off, I just can't wait to tell one of those guests how much I don't think it's a problem.


----------



## TeamRed (Apr 22, 2016)

There was a #boycotttarget on social media because this started. I mean honestly can't everyone get along??


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 22, 2016)

callmetaylor said:


> ...exactly. A hidden camera was found _*LAST YEAR *_...crazy stuff has been happening all along- the chances of this actually changing anything is incredibly minimal. Will people be immature assholes and try to be funny about it at first? Probably. Sounds like that may have already happened at jb08045's store, but I can't fathom this really bringing any extra negative experiences in the long run.
> 
> Creeps have always been creeps and will always be creeps. They never asked for permission before, they never had any intention of asking permission in the future. Plain and simple: creeps are creeps are creeps.


This reminds me of the upskirt shots guys were doing a while back; they'd act they were shopping for something & wait to catch a girl in a dress/skirt bending over before swooping by with their cell phone to click a shot. 
AP got called when one girl heard the click & saw the guy moving back. 
By the time AP caught up, she was swinging her purse & chasing/yelling at the guy all the way to the front of the store.


----------



## spotsplayground (Apr 22, 2016)

AllThingsTarget101 said:


> The amount of phone calls I have received as LOD the last few days saying it is personally my fault and I'm contributing to the reasons why the world/America is fucked up is unbelievable.


Same here!   And of course after blaming me, I'm informed they will never step foot in our store again & then promptly hang up on me.  I'm tired of hearing their BS.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 22, 2016)

Redzee said:


> Ah social warriors.


Yep....


----------



## Quattro (Apr 22, 2016)

There were rumors of a protest either at my store or one nearby.  Seriously?  People don't have better things to do on a Friday night that have a good old fashioned "shit-in"?


----------



## Bosch (Apr 22, 2016)

TeamRed said:


> There was a #boycotttarget on social media because this started. I mean honestly can't everyone get along??




Ever since Rodney King said that it has only gotten meaner and uglier.. Why? I am not sure, but my view yours may vary.

And we can only hope those who promise to never come back actually keep it.


----------



## BlueSide (Apr 23, 2016)

callmetaylor said:


> ...exactly. A hidden camera was found _*LAST YEAR *_...crazy stuff has been happening all along- the chances of this actually changing anything is incredibly minimal. Will people be immature assholes and try to be funny about it at first? Probably. Sounds like that may have already happened at jb08045's store, but I can't fathom this really bringing any extra negative experiences in the long run.
> 
> Creeps have always been creeps and will always be creeps. They never asked for permission before, they never had any intention of asking permission in the future. Plain and simple: creeps are creeps are creeps.


Look, I don't care who I pee next to. I just think we could've supported the acceptance of transgenders with a little more subtlety. Maybe an email or redwire informing us all about Target's firm stand on the transgender subject. A company wide, nondiscriminatory "bathroom policy." I just feel that Target unintentionally invited the wrong people(pervs) into the wrong restrooms by making this a public statement.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 23, 2016)




----------



## NPC (Apr 23, 2016)

TeamRed said:


> There was a #boycotttarget on social media because this started. I mean honestly can't everyone get along??



Meanwhile, we're just as busy as ever. Lol. At least my store is.


----------



## BlueSide (Apr 23, 2016)

It seems like nobody really cares in my area. No protests. No calls. No complaints. Still exceeding sales. Everyone's too busy working trying make ends meet to give a shit.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 23, 2016)

By the way, I just looked into the North Carolina law and transgendered people can still use the bathroom of the gender they associate with as long as they change the gender on their birth certificate. But still, it's fucked up they have to show documentation to take a shit.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 23, 2016)




----------



## Guest (Apr 23, 2016)




----------



## Arkhifoxx (Apr 23, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> By the way, I just looked into the North Carolina law and transgendered people can still use the bathroom of the gender they associate with as long as they change the gender on their birth certificate. But still, it's fucked up they have to show documentation to take a shit.



The problem with this is most don't have matching gender markers. It's one of the most difficult processes transgender individuals have to deal with as there is no clear or uniform protocol for changing this. Some places only allow the marker to be changed if the individual has undergone SRS (Sexual reassignment surgery), others require you to have been living full-time (presenting as the gender you align with) for various amounts of time. In most cases it also requires an official diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria (This last one is actually a requirement many agree with. This is no light choice, this is something very serious and there needs to be something to bar those who are not truly transgendered as they have a higher chance of detransitioning.)

They also face the whim of the judge or government official who must approve their request.

So, the majority of the transgender population in North Carolina most likely would not have the gender correctly reflected on any document.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 23, 2016)

thank u based liberal redneck


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 23, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> thank u based liberal redneck





I so love this guy.
Basically when you think of an Alaskan liberal, it's him.


----------



## tinkerbell333 (Apr 23, 2016)

This whole thing is SO stupid!  This is not a NEW policy this has been a long-standing policy.  My store has always had a unisex fitting room (because we only have one FR).  People are so upset about this but in reality most of the time there is NO ONE monitoring who goes in/out of the fitting room and no one at guest services is monitoring WHO goes into WHICH bathroom. Simmer down now people!


----------



## Kompa (Apr 23, 2016)

tinkerbell333 said:


> This whole thing is SO stupid!  This is not a NEW policy this has been a long-standing policy.  My store has always had a unisex fitting room (because we only have one FR).  People are so upset about this but in reality most of the time there is NO ONE monitoring who goes in/out of the fitting room and no one at guest services is monitoring WHO goes into WHICH bathroom. Simmer down now people!


To be fair, most men don't even use the fitting room.


----------



## squirrely (Apr 23, 2016)

jb08045 said:


> To be fair, most men don't even use the fitting room.


My store also has only one fitting room, and while more women use it, we still get a lot of men who do as well.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 23, 2016)

I'm thankful that I'm in a fairly liberal area, so I don't think we've had any problems because of the announcement. I haven't worked since the announcement, and I no longer interact with guests, but I don't feel like this will be as big of an issue here.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 23, 2016)

Angry, angry guests.


----------



## squirrely (Apr 23, 2016)

I've not personally taken any calls or complaints about this, but other LOD's at my store have. There's also planned protests at other stores in my district.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 23, 2016)

Oh, how times change (*shakes head).
This is the flipside of the guests angry about corp contributing to a political PAC that was funding an anti-gay candidate; never mind that it was his pro-business stance they supported.
We had guests berating us at the pharmacy, cutting up their red cards at the service desk & calling the store to complain. 
I was a GSA at the time & had a woman stop me in the front lanes to ask me how I could stand working for such a company.
I told her that I'm not paid to have an opinion.


----------



## qmosqueen (Apr 23, 2016)

Protest.  #BoycottTarget protest sees thousands join petition against Target's transgender bathroom policy

Another one click 

I peed in Target and no one died

Another 
Local protesters want Target to nix transgender bathroom policy

Another 
Bigots Off Target, Call For Boycott Of Retailer Over Potty Policy


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 23, 2016)

Oh, the HILARITY....


----------



## Yetive (Apr 23, 2016)

Got my first call tonight.  Makes no sense.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 23, 2016)

I feel a strange mix of disappointment and relief that I haven't heard any complaints at my store.


----------



## Yetive (Apr 23, 2016)

I must admit I found it hard to hold my tongue. As far as I know it is the first at my store.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 23, 2016)

We are getting calls just pranks. People calling out to jobs as people we don't have..


----------



## Arkhifoxx (Apr 23, 2016)

In some redeeming news, I had a pair of older ladies come in and buy stuff. At the register they told me the only reason they came to Target was because others wanted to boycott, so to show support they bought things.

Also had an older gentleman apologize for calling me sir, then correcting himself and say "Ma'am". 

Why can't more customers be this awesome? Not  that I got jerks, but these people went out of their way to be awesome.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 23, 2016)

I assured guests that all tms scrupulously use the appropriate bathroom. (Never mind what that means) and that if they feel uncomfortable they are welcome to fill out a survey. Working so far. But people here are definitely on the conservative side.


----------



## desertcoyote (Apr 23, 2016)

We had a few calls and a few people who would never shop here ever again.  Okay.  Now get out of the way, I have a long line of guests behind you to help since you're not shopping here anymore.  There's no call for boycott here.  It was really busy today.


----------



## GSRose17 (Apr 23, 2016)

I work at a store in a VERY religious/conservative area, and people are PISSED. We've been averaging about 3 calls an hour from people telling us they aren't going to shop with us again, or that we're horrible vile human beings for allowing this policy to stand in our store. The problem is, we've already been struggling to make sales, and this was one of the slowest saturdays I've seen in a good while. Some people are worried about the long term for their jobs. It's frustrating that people are so hateful to TMs about the whole thing. One guest told me that we deserve to have our store closed, because she would rather see over 100 of us unemployed, rather than working in a morally corrupt company lol.


----------



## Shadowski (Apr 24, 2016)

I get CC'ed on the closing emails and they tally the amount of calls they got. It's seriously not a lot. Like a dozen per day so far. Feeling kind of lucky over here. 

I've not had anybody confront me in store or in the lot about it, but our GSTLs relayed a few people cutting up their redcards at the service desk. I ask around outside work though and nobody knows about it. Or those who do are not concerned with it. 

I actually only hear about bathgate via work email or coming here. It'll blow by. It's not as bad as the data breach was. At least from what I've seen.


----------



## Stubio (Apr 24, 2016)

Great, target has given them permission to do the thing that they've already have been doing for years.


----------



## zoned2deep (Apr 24, 2016)

I live in Portland, OR, so this isn't controversial at all. Portland is one of the top destinations for transgender people looking for an accepting place to live, or for parents of a transgender child to raise their kid, and a ton of transgender people shop at my store every day.

I gotta say though, it's hard for me to imagine there is a giant category of people incensed by this issue who haven't already found a similar reason to boycott Target in the last few years. I'm thinking about the gender neutral shift in toys and "Pillowfort," and the obvious pride merch being sold last year along with pride stickers for TMs to wear on their nametags. Anyone who boycotts Target over this probably hasn't been paying much attention... not to mention that this has been the policy for a while.


----------



## zoned2deep (Apr 24, 2016)

Arkhifoxx said:


> The problem with this is most don't have matching gender markers. It's one of the most difficult processes transgender individuals have to deal with as there is no clear or uniform protocol for changing this. Some places only allow the marker to be changed if the individual has undergone SRS (Sexual reassignment surgery), others require you to have been living full-time (presenting as the gender you align with) for various amounts of time. In most cases it also requires an official diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria (This last one is actually a requirement many agree with. This is no light choice, this is something very serious and there needs to be something to bar those who are not truly transgendered as they have a higher chance of detransitioning.)
> 
> They also face the whim of the judge or government official who must approve their request.
> 
> So, the majority of the transgender population in North Carolina most likely would not have the gender correctly reflected on any document.



In North Carolina, apparently you need proof that your had sexual reassignment surgery to correct your birth certificate. And many, many, many transgender people do not undergo SRS, either because of the high cost or because it's not important to them. A lot of transgender men don't get SRS because frankly constructing a penis is very difficult surgically and a lot of trans men opt out of that.


----------



## squirrely (Apr 24, 2016)

All these boycotts. We hadn't made sales all week, but we have everyday since this announcement. Weird. 

Side note, if you're bored, look at the visitor posts on Target's FB. People are seriously stupid.


----------



## LisaB (Apr 24, 2016)

I can imagine the villagers gathering outside the store with their signs, casting aspersions, calling on God to save us all from damnation. 
Mofo's been using bathrooms and fitting rooms for decades without thinking about it once.  They read about it on FaceFuckingBook and now all queers and trannies are baby rapers.  Asshole villagers.  >.<

The villagers here are apparently planning a boycott.  I found out from guests who APPLAUD Target for their inclusive policy.  I think we'll gain new guests from the people who realise that the protesters are asses.


----------



## qmosqueen (Apr 24, 2016)

LisaB said:


> I can imagine the villagers gathering outside the store with their signs, casting aspersions, calling on God to save us all from damnation.
> Mofo's been using bathrooms and fitting rooms for decades without thinking about it once.  They read about it on FaceFuckingBook and now all queers and trannies are baby rapers.  Asshole villagers.  >.<
> 
> The villagers here are apparently planning a boycott.  I found out from guests who APPLAUD Target for their inclusive policy.  I think we'll gain new guests from the people who realise that the protesters are asses.


yeah on a Sunday right after church !!


----------



## qmosqueen (Apr 24, 2016)

love Target Customer Service ..


----------



## tgtguy (Apr 24, 2016)

qmosqueen said:


> love Target Customer Service ..


is this real? pretty awesome if it is


----------



## calimero (Apr 24, 2016)

I thought the point of going to
Target was to shop , not to go the bathroom ... 
How about they use the bathroom in their home before heading out ...


----------



## qmosqueen (Apr 24, 2016)

calimero said:


> I thought the point of going to
> Target was to shop , not to go the bathroom ...
> How about they use the bathroom in their home before heading out ...


with the amount of food and drinks americans consume these days they have to go to the bathroom on average once every hour !!


----------



## bananaman (Apr 24, 2016)

thetargetman said:


> I can already see the bad people taking advantage of this pretending to be transgendered!


THIS ^

I think this is what is being lost in the discussion.

People are getting so hot and bothered over who is right and who is wrong, they're not really listening to the main concern about allowing transgenders to use whatever bathroom they want. It's not that people... well, most people... are afraid of transgender people abusing their children, it's that people are afraid of pedophiles and perverts pretending to be transgender just so they can use whatever bathrooms they want so they can have easier access to their intended victims. I know that's my main concern. It's going to be harder to police and a political nightmare if you accuse wrongly, something pedo and pervs will have an easy time to exploit.

As far as using a bathroom the same time a transgender person does? I could care less. It's just a person trying to get by just like I am and I have no problem with it as it does me no harm. However I am of the opinion that pedophiles and perverts can go piss in the woods with the rest of the animals.


----------



## consume (Apr 24, 2016)

^^ absolutely, I don't care what someone wishes they were born with, it's only a very small percentage of the total population we're pandering to.

The problem we're having with this decision is the fact that there are a lot more evil people who will exploit this than there are people that are bummed out that they don't get too experience how disgusting the women's restroom is


----------



## consume (Apr 24, 2016)

I can almost guarantee if you know of a male who is on the edge of whether or not he feels he should be using the restroom with women, make him clean it for a few weekends when it's really busy and he'll never step foot in one again


----------



## Firefox (Apr 24, 2016)

bananaman said:


> THIS ^
> 
> I think this is what is being lost in the discussion.
> 
> ...



This point has been addressed already though. Any pervert who wants to peep over into the stall next to them isn't going to be stopped by restricting transgender people from using the restroom of their gender identity. These perverts are also in such a massive minority that to discriminate against an entire group of people because of the actions of a few people acting under the guise of being transgender is ridiculous. It's the same logic used by people who want to ban Muslim immigration because of the actions of a small extremist sect of the larger group.

Peeping would still be a crime, and perverts who are found using the women's restroom (or men's) in order to peek  will still be arrested if caught. I think people are far too afraid of this "loophole", because the extreme minority that would exploit this loophole likely wouldn't have been stopped even if there were a restriction on the use of bathrooms by transgender people.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 24, 2016)

consume said:


> ^^ absolutely, I don't care what someone wishes they were born with, it's only a very small percentage of the total population we're pandering to.
> 
> The problem we're having with this decision is the fact that there are a lot more evil people who will exploit this than there are people that are bummed out that they don't get too experience how disgusting the women's restroom is



Except that this "small percentage of the total population" that we are referring to is almost 700,000 people. Refusing those 700,000 people the right to use the bathroom that correctly aligns with their gender identity because of your cynical view of humanity is ridiculously narrow-minded.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 24, 2016)

consume said:


> I can almost guarantee if you know of a male who is on the edge of whether or not he feels he should be using the restroom with women, make him clean it for a few weekends when it's really busy and he'll never step foot in one again



Quoted for Truth...

Women's bathrooms are disgusting

As a male there is nothing more disturbing than walking into a bathroom to find a used tampon floating in the bowl....

Yeeeeeeeeeegh


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 24, 2016)

Spot has made a decision. Move on, folks. No one is benefiting from this thread.


----------



## BlueSide (Apr 24, 2016)

LisaB said:


> I think we'll gain new guests


That was part of the reason Target made this decision.


----------



## bananaman (Apr 24, 2016)

Firefox said:


> Peeping would still be a crime, and perverts who are found using the women's restroom (or men's) in order to peek  will still be arrested if caught.



But thanks to the new rule, that has become a mighty big "if".

Consider the scenario - a male pedophile or pervert sees that everyone allowed to use whatever bathroom they want at Target. Before, he would have been caught if attempting to enter the ladies room; it would have been a huge red flag and he would have been easily stopped. Now however, if someone questions him, he can lie and say "But I identify as a woman!", and now he is legally able to enter the ladies room. While in there, he can use his cell phone to his hearts content and upload whatever he finds to the Internet before deleting the picture from his phone. If some sharp person catches him? He will delete the pics and lie that he's being illegally discriminated against to get out of being prosecuted. There is really no way to prove he's not a legitimate member of the transgender community, and Target, seeking to avoid bad publicity, will drop the case. The person who spotted him taking pictures will be labelled a bigoted troublemaker, and their accusations will be swept away as hate. Meanwhile, someone's sister, mother, or little girl is floating on the Internet for some sicko to see. 

I know things have been bad for the trans community, I wish it was different and I support their right to live as equals. But one child being abused is one too many, and it's not a risk I would be willing to take, politics be damned.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 24, 2016)

bananaman said:


> But thanks to the new rule, that has become a mighty big "if".
> 
> Consider the scenario - a male pedophile or pervert sees that everyone allowed to use whatever bathroom they want at Target. Before, he would have been caught if attempting to enter the ladies room; it would have been a huge red flag and he would have been easily stopped. Now however, if someone questions him, he can lie and say "But I identify as a woman!", and now he is legally able to enter the ladies room. While in there, he can use his cell phone to his hearts content and upload whatever he finds to the Internet before deleting the picture from his phone. If some sharp person catches him? He will delete the pics and lie that he's being illegally discriminated against to get out of being prosecuted. There is really no way to prove he's not a legitimate member of the transgender community, and Target, seeking to avoid bad publicity, will drop the case. The person who spotted him taking pictures will be labelled a bigoted troublemaker, and their accusations will be swept away as hate. Meanwhile, someone's sister, mother, or little girl is floating on the Internet for some sicko to see.
> 
> I know things have been bad for the trans community, I wish it was different and I support their right to live as equals. But one child being abused is one too many, and it's not a risk I would be willing to take, politics be damned.




Your completely artificial "What if' scenario doesn't change the fact that there are trans people being beaten up and even killed just for being alive.
The fear that is being generated by laws like these (and 'What if' scenarios) is creating life threatening situations for trans people across the country especially in the south.

These cries of "What about the children?" completely ignore the fact that trans people have been using the bathrooms for some time now.
The fact is there have been no incidents involving trans people and children.
There have been a lot of arrests for solicitation for sex by Republican Congressman but that's another story.

Before we freak out about what might happen lets take a look at what is happening and try to help.
Target is just continuing the policy that helped people live their lives as normally as possible.
We really should look at that as being the best course of action.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 24, 2016)

bananaman said:


> But thanks to the new rule, that has become a mighty big "if".
> 
> Consider the scenario - a male pedophile or pervert sees that everyone allowed to use whatever bathroom they want at Target. Before, he would have been caught if attempting to enter the ladies room; it would have been a huge red flag and he would have been easily stopped. Now however, if someone questions him, he can lie and say "But I identify as a woman!", and now he is legally able to enter the ladies room. While in there, he can use his cell phone to his hearts content and upload whatever he finds to the Internet before deleting the picture from his phone. If some sharp person catches him? He will delete the pics and lie that he's being illegally discriminated against to get out of being prosecuted. There is really no way to prove he's not a legitimate member of the transgender community, and Target, seeking to avoid bad publicity, will drop the case. The person who spotted him taking pictures will be labelled a bigoted troublemaker, and their accusations will be swept away as hate. Meanwhile, someone's sister, mother, or little girl is floating on the Internet for some sicko to see.
> 
> I know things have been bad for the trans community, I wish it was different and I support their right to live as equals. But one child being abused is one too many, and it's not a risk I would be willing to take, politics be damned.



No you do not support their right as equals, you are willing to take thier rights away on the chance that somthing may happen that isn't even their fault. 

Most kids are molested by someone they know.  We have more cases of priests/teachers/coaches/family members molesting kids then random bathroom people.  By your logic we better shut down every chruch, school and family reunion.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 24, 2016)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Spot has made a decision. Move on, folks. No one is benefiting from this thread.



I don't think so. It's a topic that needs to be talked about, and now that Target has made it's stance public it's relevant to this forum. As long as we maintain a civil discussion I don't think it'll be an issue.


----------



## LUR99 (Apr 24, 2016)

Shadowski said:


> I get CC'ed on the closing emails and they tally the amount of calls they got. It's seriously not a lot. Like a dozen per day so far. Feeling kind of lucky over here.
> 
> I've not had anybody confront me in store or in the lot about it, but our GSTLs relayed a few people cutting up their redcards at the service desk. I ask around outside work though and nobody knows about it. Or those who do are not concerned with it.
> 
> I actually only hear about bathgate via work email or coming here. It'll blow by. It's not as bad as the data breach was. At least from what I've seen.



Not sure how many calls we are getting but it seems there have been lots of calls for the LOD recently. I wonder if the calls are about the bathroom policy. I work at the service desk and had a couple outraged older ladies complain lol. Call corporate and leave me the alone lol. One lady calmed down after I reminded her that we have a single stall family bathroom. I haven't seen any men trying to use the womens bathroom. 

No cut up red cards yet though.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 24, 2016)

bananaman said:


> But thanks to the new rule, that has become a mighty big "if".
> 
> Consider the scenario - a male pedophile or pervert sees that everyone allowed to use whatever bathroom they want at Target. Before, he would have been caught if attempting to enter the ladies room; it would have been a huge red flag and he would have been easily stopped. Now however, if someone questions him, he can lie and say "But I identify as a woman!", and now he is legally able to enter the ladies room. While in there, he can use his cell phone to his hearts content and upload whatever he finds to the Internet before deleting the picture from his phone. If some sharp person catches him? He will delete the pics and lie that he's being illegally discriminated against to get out of being prosecuted. There is really no way to prove he's not a legitimate member of the transgender community, and Target, seeking to avoid bad publicity, will drop the case. The person who spotted him taking pictures will be labelled a bigoted troublemaker, and their accusations will be swept away as hate. Meanwhile, someone's sister, mother, or little girl is floating on the Internet for some sicko to see.
> 
> I know things have been bad for the trans community, I wish it was different and I support their right to live as equals. But one child being abused is one too many, and it's not a risk I would be willing to take, politics be damned.



I think @commiecorvus's post basically mirrors my own. To discriminate against transgender people like this is wrong and to deny them the right to pee in the bathroom that best aligns with they gender identity simply because of a baseless fear of a "what if" scenario is morally reprehensible. And enforcing laws like HB2 in North Carolina only paints a bigger target for transgender folks, who already have incredibly high violence statistics. According to a report from the University of Hawaii, "In addition to high rates of sexual violence victimization, transgender people also suffer from a high prevalence of physical violence. The study with the highest level of detail about physical assault specifically is the study by Xavier et al. (2007). Among trans-Virginians, 40% reported experiencing physical assaults (since age 13), and the mean age of the first physical assault was at 16 years old. Of those who had reported being victimized, 18% reported one incident, 23% reported two incidents, 30% reported three to five incidents, 17% reported six to 19 incidents, and 12% reported 20 or more incidents of physical violence." (Source)

Just some food for thought.


----------



## LUR99 (Apr 24, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Meanwhile, we're just as busy as ever. Lol. At least my store is.



Same here! We had to call for back up from the sales floor to the lanes at 9 am which is unusual!


----------



## bananaman (Apr 24, 2016)

Firefox said:


> I think @commiecorvus's post basically mirrors my own. To discriminate against transgender people like this is wrong and to deny them the right to pee in the bathroom that best aligns with they gender identity simply because of a baseless fear of a "what if" scenario is morally reprehensible. And enforcing laws like HB2 in North Carolina only paints a bigger target for transgender folks, who already have incredibly high violence statistics. According to a report from the University of Hawaii, "In addition to high rates of sexual violence victimization, transgender people also suffer from a high prevalence of physical violence. The study with the highest level of detail about physical assault specifically is the study by Xavier et al. (2007). Among trans-Virginians, 40% reported experiencing physical assaults (since age 13), and the mean age of the first physical assault was at 16 years old. Of those who had reported being victimized, 18% reported one incident, 23% reported two incidents, 30% reported three to five incidents, 17% reported six to 19 incidents, and 12% reported 20 or more incidents of physical violence." (Source)
> 
> Just some food for thought.



I appreciate how fervently you feel about the topic, but throwing in statistics concerning violence against the transgender community does not change the fact that bad people will take advantage of this new rule and the risk of innocents being hurt has risen. The fact is that part of my theory has been proven on this very forum as I now have been accused of not being sympathetic of the transgender community just for questioning the execution of this new rule. 

Concerning what is morally reprehensible, I wonder what your stance is concerning firearms? 

Do you support that they should be regulated on the theory that we need to reduce the risk of bystanders getting hurt? That we should take every opportunity available to protect people even if it does infringe on their rights?

Or do you think firearms should be allowed? That tragedies like Colorado, San Bernardino, and Roseburg are necessary evils so that the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms is protected?

Please answer that question.


----------



## NPC (Apr 24, 2016)




----------



## Rock Lobster (Apr 24, 2016)

bananaman said:


> I appreciate how fervently you feel about the topic, but throwing in statistics concerning violence against the transgender community does not change the fact that bad people will take advantage of this new rule and the risk of innocents being hurt has risen. The fact is that part of my theory has been proven on this very forum as I now have been accused of not being sympathetic of the transgender community just for questioning the execution of this new rule.
> 
> Concerning what is morally reprehensible, I wonder what your stance is concerning firearms?
> 
> ...



You are being questioned because you are drawing a conclusion that restroom policies being made around gender identity and not sexual organs somehow leads to higher child molestation and sexual crimes in those environments.  I have yet to see this be the case.  Someone who is dressed like a man (whether biologically a male or female) who enters the women's restroom will still look out of place.  It should be a red flag that they are in there for odd reasons.  I don't see how its any easier for a pedophile to get into a women's restroom now than before, because either they were just going to walk in (which could have been done before) or they are going to dress like a lady and get in there, which again could have been done before.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 24, 2016)

bananaman said:


> I appreciate how fervently you feel about the topic, but throwing in statistics concerning violence against the transgender community does not change the fact that bad people will take advantage of this new rule and the risk of innocents being hurt has risen. The fact is that part of my theory has been proven on this very forum as I now have been accused of not being sympathetic of the transgender community just for questioning the execution of this new rule.
> 
> Concerning what is morally reprehensible, I wonder what your stance is concerning firearms?
> 
> ...



You're right that violence against the transgender community does not change that in a hypothetical scenario a pervert could enter the women's restroom under the guise of being transgender. But the remote possibility of that happening is well and truly overshadowed by the threat that is posed to transgendered people by segregating them from the bathroom that they are most comfortable in. It paints a very obvious target on those in the transgender community, especially transgendered teens in high school who would be forced to use the bathroom that they feel most uncomfortable in. Advocates for these bathroom laws seem to stick to the "We must protect our children" argument but they don't seem to consider the threat posed to teenagers who might be questioning their gender identity during already one of the most confusing, scary, and formative times of their childhood. Schools are already fraught with bullying, and these bathroom laws would force one of two things; either teens would be forced to hide their true gender identity in order to avoid being targeted, or they would present as their identified gender and risk the harassment. There's also the possibility of them refusing or being too afraid to even face their feelings, which could be even more psychologically harmful. There is a reason why the suicide and self-harm rate in transgender teenagers is one of the highest out there.

My argument is simply this; lives are put at risk by forcing transgender people to use the bathroom that does not align with their gender identity, and that the proposed risk of allowing them to use the restroom does not justify discriminating over 700,000 people. By forcing them to use the bathroom designated to them at birth, you risk damaging the psychological integrity of transgender people, in particular people who are mid-transition, as well as creating a target for those who are inclined to harassment and violence. I have yet to find any statistic or evidence that proves that allowing transgender people to use the appropriate bathroom will cause an increase in sexual assault, voyeurism, or violent crime. And believe me, I've been looking because this has been such a hot topic lately that I've been trying to find a study or report that shows that there would be a real and immediate threat. You also have the problem of making brusque and burly men use the women's restroom simply because they were born without a twig and berries, which would cause far more problems as far as public order is concerned than allowing a transgender person to use the appropriate restroom.

I also fail to see how gun control is in any way relevant to the topic at hand. Since you seem curious, I will tell you that I support stricter gun control regulations. I won't go into it because it's irrelevant to the current discussion, and I'll just ignore it if you try to goad me into further discussion on gun control.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 24, 2016)

bananaman said:


> I appreciate how fervently you feel about the topic, but throwing in statistics concerning violence against the transgender community does not change the fact that bad people will take advantage of this new rule and the risk of innocents being hurt has risen. The fact is that part of my theory has been proven on this very forum as I now have been accused of not being sympathetic of the transgender community just for questioning the execution of this new rule.
> 
> Concerning what is morally reprehensible, I wonder what your stance is concerning firearms?
> 
> ...



The two things have little to nothing to do with each other.
One is a matter of private ownership and the responsibility that goes with it while the other deals with public facilities and the fake fears people are generating about them.


----------



## emayf (Apr 24, 2016)

So many people act like there was a magical force field that prevents people of the "opposite" sex from coming in a public bathroom and now that magical force field is gone. Technically, any creepy person can walk into any bathroom.  It's a public bathroom there's nothing stopping them. And how do you know that lady in the women's room isn't a pervert? or that guy peeing next to you in the men's room isn't a pedophile? All sorts of weirdos go into public bathrooms. Transgender people have been using public restrooms before it became a political issue.  It wasn't an issue then why is it suddenly an issue now? Conservatives love to make non-issues issues to distract us from the real issues such as education, poverty, roads, and unemployment.


----------



## bananaman (Apr 24, 2016)

Firefox said:


> You're right that violence against the transgender community does not change that in a hypothetical scenario a pervert could enter the women's restroom under the guise of being transgender. But the remote possibility of that happening is well and truly overshadowed by the threat that is posed to transgendered people by segregating them from the bathroom that they are most comfortable in. It paints a very obvious target on those in the transgender community, especially transgendered teens in high school who would be forced to use the bathroom that they feel most uncomfortable in. Advocates for these bathroom laws seem to stick to the "We must protect our children" argument but they don't seem to consider the threat posed to teenagers who might be questioning their gender identity during already one of the most confusing, scary, and formative times of their childhood. Schools are already fraught with bullying, and these bathroom laws would force one of two things; either teens would be forced to hide their true gender identity in order to avoid being targeted, or they would present as their identified gender and risk the harassment. There's also the possibility of them refusing or being too afraid to even face their feelings, which could be even more psychologically harmful. There is a reason why the suicide and self-harm rate in transgender teenagers is one of the highest out there.
> 
> My argument is simply this; lives are put at risk by forcing transgender people to use the bathroom that does not align with their gender identity, and that the proposed risk of allowing them to use the restroom does not justify discriminating over 700,000 people. By forcing them to use the bathroom designated to them at birth, you risk damaging the psychological integrity of transgender people, in particular people who are mid-transition, as well as creating a target for those who are inclined to harassment and violence. I have yet to find any statistic or evidence that proves that allowing transgender people to use the appropriate bathroom will cause an increase in sexual assault, voyeurism, or violent crime. And believe me, I've been looking because this has been such a hot topic lately that I've been trying to find a study or report that shows that there would be a real and immediate threat. You also have the problem of making brusque and burly men use the women's restroom simply because they were born without a twig and berries, which would cause far more problems as far as public order is concerned than allowing a transgender person to use the appropriate restroom.
> 
> I also fail to see how gun control is in any way relevant to the topic at hand. Since you seem curious, I will tell you that I support stricter gun control regulations. I won't go into it because it's irrelevant to the current discussion, and I'll just ignore it if you try to goad me into further discussion on gun control.



To be fair, I knew you would not answer my question regarding gun control because it betrays the logical fallacy in your argument. There is no way you can say you're concerned about the risk we put innocents at and that certain rights must be sacrificed for the common good, then go ahead and say you're not concerned about the risks we put innocents at because we can not sacrifice the rights of others for the common good. I won't press you on it because you have made my point. I know some will say they have nothing to do with each other, but again, that's an excuse, not an answer. In fact, both issues have quite a good deal in common: we have two groups saying we can not put bystanders at risk, and two resisting groups saying there's nothing to worry about and it's their right. Liberalism and conservatism are red herrings, it's always been about people wanting to make life better for their side, no matter the costs, as long as they 'win', but I digress. 

You say that transgenders will be more at risk for going to a bathroom they are not comfortable in. Yet with all of the attention and and all the animosity that this topic has gathered, the Trans community is now more targeted than ever. Now if an effeminate man or a masculine woman enters the bathroom, the local red neck yahoos are going to be ready with torches and pitchforks and drive them back to the bathroom they, in their mind, think they should be using. The beings in question may not even be trans, they might just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So if anything, this whole incident has made the transgender even bigger targets than they were before, because now hate filled bigots will be looking for them.  

I know nothing I will say will change your mind, I have voiced my concerns, and I see no reason to beat a dead horse. Please note I have not been rude. If this world is ever going to get better, it must be done through civil and intelligent discussion. Which ever road you choose, may it lead where you want it to.


----------



## bananaman (Apr 24, 2016)

Rock Lobster said:


> You are being questioned because you are drawing a conclusion that restroom policies being made around gender identity and not sexual organs somehow leads to higher child molestation and sexual crimes in those environments.  I have yet to see this be the case.  Someone who is dressed like a man (whether biologically a male or female) who enters the women's restroom will still look out of place.  It should be a red flag that they are in there for odd reasons.  I don't see how its any easier for a pedophile to get into a women's restroom now than before, because either they were just going to walk in (which could have been done before) or they are going to dress like a lady and get in there, which again could have been done before.



Interesting choice of words. 

"You are being questioned." 

It almost sounds like I've done something wrong, yet to my knowledge I have not.

To begin, you misquoted me. I said the risk for child molestation and sex crimes have risen, not that they actually have. I said we have made it easier for bad people to take advantage of this new rule. 

You can not identify or red flag a man going into the woman's bathroom any more as a trouble maker because if you do, you might be misgendering an actual member of the trans community, and that is something that is not appreciated by transgender folk at all. I wager if the matter is pressed, you could be in danger of disciplinary action from Target for doing that. The matter is further complicated because some people are gender fluid.

This is the risk I was talking about - we can no longer tell the good from the bad, and we are loathe to accuse the bad for fear of misgendering the good. 

But no matter, as I have said in reply to Firefox, I have said my peace.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 24, 2016)

bananaman said:


> I know nothing I will say will change your mind, I have voiced my concerns, and I see no reason to beat a dead horse. Please note I have not been rude. If this world is ever going to get better, it must be done through civil and intelligent discussion. Which ever road you choose, may it lead where you want it to.



Absolutely, and everything I have said up to this point has simply been for the sake of argument. Nothing personal about it, no judgement, just debate.

As for your other points, arguments can be made either way as to the common elements between gun control and these bathroom laws, but I will say this. I see these Anti-LGBT bathroom laws as a civil rights violation, and the movement for LGBT equality is a civil rights issue whereas gun control is a criminal/constitutional rights issue, and thus are completely separate topics that merit their own discussions. I feel that the risk of voyeurism and sexual assault from a person claiming to be transgender in a public restroom to be extremely unlikely as there is still the issue of it being easily discovered and the punishment for either of these crimes is harsh enough to dissuade most people. Those who aren't dissuaded would likely have done it in the first place. I absolutely hate using the term "For the greater good of the people", but the truth of the matter is that I weigh the civil rights of over 700,000 people to be greater than the potential risk posed by perverts who may or may not cause problems.

I admit that I live in a fairly liberal area and many people within my old high school (I would go as far to say that the majority of people) were overwhelmingly supportive of the LGBT community. Even still, just a few years ago a student who I had shared a class or two with at the time committed suicide because of harassment from a few classmates about her change in gender identity from male to female. It was a tragic event that was felt throughout the school, and the family got a lot of support from within the community and I believe there was an LGBT support group created to help those who aren't quite sure about themselves. What frightens me is that I know that there are thousands of schools across the country that aren't anywhere near as supportive and that it isn't a safe environment for these people. Striking down these bathroom laws and making public statements like Target has helps the movement for further acceptance of the LGBT community. 

I've said my piece, so unless any new points are brought up or someone posts something outrageously bigoted I'll try to refrain from posting further.


----------



## qmosqueen (Apr 25, 2016)

Can we please close this thread now. Thanks

If you want this thread closed click the like button.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 25, 2016)

Damn it, now I ended up on the Target FB page commenting on everything again.

Look for a blonde haired cat boy ;3


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 25, 2016)

qmosqueen said:


> Can we please close this thread now. Thanks
> 
> If you want this thread closed click the like button.



The discussion has been respectful. When people are tired of talking about it, the thread will organically die. If you don't want to read about it any more, you are free to stop reading.


----------



## kingpin003 (Apr 25, 2016)

I disagree that the thread should be closed. You are free to stop reading if you don't want to take part in the discussion, but allow others to share their viewpoints in a civil manner. 

Several of my current and former team members were transgender. I built a strong relationship with each of them and respected that they each had unique experiences that affected how open they were about it. One was very confident and was quick to let people know if they used the wrong pronoun, while another would be devastated when it happened. His experiences in his teenage years had made it very painful when others referred to him with the wrong pronoun, and I could see how it affected him when people did so. I think it would be disrespectful to force him to use a restroom that caused him to feel that way, just because someone else refuses to understand him.

So while I understand the concerns that people have when it comes to bathrooms, I think that forcing a large number of people into certainly uncomfortable and potentially stressful situations is the wrong move. Forcing transgender females to use the men's restroom in a dress is absurd, especially since they are then expected to carry their birth certificate to prove they belong there.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 25, 2016)




----------



## Firefox (Apr 25, 2016)

qmosqueen said:


> Can we please close this thread now. Thanks
> 
> If you want this thread closed click the like button.



Most of the discussion has been very civil so far, so there is no reason to close the thread. Just because it's a controversial issue doesn't mean it should be closed. Especially now that Target has taken a public stance it's relevant to this forum and merits discussion.


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 25, 2016)

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Boycott grows over Target transgender policy

More than 500,000 boycott Target over transgender bathroom policy


----------



## oath2order (Apr 25, 2016)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Check out this article from USA TODAY:
> 
> Boycott grows over Target transgender policy
> 
> More than 500,000 boycott Target over transgender bathroom policy



More like more than 500,000 claim to be boycotting but only 10 actually will


----------



## Kompa (Apr 25, 2016)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Check out this article from USA TODAY:
> 
> Boycott grows over Target transgender policy
> 
> More than 500,000 boycott Target over transgender bathroom policy


This is actually a decent size number. Most don't reach this scale


----------



## BullseyeBabe (Apr 25, 2016)

My store has been busier than usual and we made sales over the weekend for the first time in a long while. So...


----------



## NPC (Apr 25, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> Damn it, now I ended up on the Target FB page commenting on everything again.
> 
> Look for a blonde haired cat boy ;3



I totally went stalking, and didn't see shit! Lol. I got a good laugh out of all the posts people were making.


----------



## Life201 (Apr 25, 2016)

Target should hand out free Depends to all the people afraid to use a bathroom in case they find themselves standing at a sink next to someone who has different genitals. Problem solved for everyone.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 25, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I totally went stalking, and didn't see shit! Lol. I got a good laugh out of all the posts people were making.


You were too late! People there post fast af lol But ya god damn the posts are entertaining I might go back again tonight


----------



## LUR99 (Apr 25, 2016)

Now we have Team Members arguing in the Break room about the bathroom policy, some are yelling we aren't feeling safe anymore . You are welcome to quit and work for a different retailer, more hours for me . We have a family bathroom and a single stall team member bathroom.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 25, 2016)

I explained to an acquaintance of mine that Target's policy hasn't changed.  All her life, the Male to Female trans was afraid.  She was afraid of the feelings she had as a young child (I never felt comfortable in my body - I was supposed to be girl, but I looked like a boy!).  She was afraid to talk about it to her friends, her family, her teachers, to anyone.  Finally, as a teenager, she could no longer handle the pressure and sought help to begin the transformation to a female.  Some of the fear was gone, but it is still a frightening thing to go out in the world every day, fearing that someone would find out that she was born a male, fearing that someone would taunt her, fearing that someone would physically assault her.  But things were getting better.  Then NC passed the bathroom law which allows someone to ask for gender assignment proof to go to the restroom in a public facility.   Mississippi passed a law that states one can refuse service, refuse to rent, refuse to administer medical care to LBGT if you feel it is against your religious convictions.  And all the fears came back.

All Target did with the latest announcement was tell her that, "Hey, come to Target We won't question you.  We won't ask for your gender assignment.  We won't discriminate against you.  We'll make it as safe as possible for you to come to our store.  We want you to feel as comfortable as everyone else who shops with us."


----------



## bkh (Apr 25, 2016)

i'm mentally preparing myself for the questions guests are going to bombard me with whenever i back up. and the comments and jokes that are going to be made about it. we already got a call today from a guest saying they refuse to shop at our store now. good, go back to walmart. not sure why they feel the need to inform us of that. i'm just going to tell them that they can use the family restroom if they have an issue with it.

but, in all seriousness, i am all for LGBT equality and believe everyone should feel comfortable in whatever bathroom they're in. however, i do understand why SOME of these people are angry. target publicly stated that its transgender team members and guests are welcome to use the bathrooms that correspond to their gender identities. as someone mentioned before, in a worst case scenario, this means a pedophile or a sex offender could pose as transgender for the day, pretend he's in his early transition, so still physically looking like a male, (or just dress up as a woman) enter the women's bathroom, and you know where this is going. personally, as a woman, that thought terrifies me. now no one can really differentiate between who is transgender and who is not, and who is in their early transition and who is not. and there are a lot of sick people out there, unfortunately. the fact that target publicly stated this sort of puts the idea out there, for any sick person to grasp and take action with.

also, what are transgendered women supposed to do? use the men's room despite the fact that they identify as a woman, and risk getting assaulted/jumped/ridiculed there? and vice versa!

some people have suggested target creates an additional restroom with stalls for transgendered people. i get the concept, but in reality anyone could walk in there with bad intentions and pose a threat to those who feel comfortable in that bathroom.

i'm happy that target is one of the first major retailers to take a stand on this issue... but i think there needs to be a better solution made. i don't know what that might be, i've been pondering this subject all day and it's been giving me a headache. a month ago i went to a show at a venue in NYC. a lot of people showed up and maybe one of the bathrooms was out of order, so for some reason they were only using the other bathroom, so everyone had to use this one bathroom and wait in a long line. inside there was a huge desk area with a bathroom attendant stationed, selling snacks and candy (not sure how sanitary that is..) and providing people with napkins and toilet paper when needed, while also monitoring the people and the atmosphere. i thought that was pretty cool and an interesting idea.

edit: also, by no means am i worried about using the female bathroom at target in the event that a transgender woman is also in there. i wanted to make that clear


----------



## pfreshdude (Apr 25, 2016)

bkh said:


> i'm mentally preparing myself for the questions guests are going to bombard me with whenever i back up. and the comments and jokes that are going to be made about it. we already got a call today from a guest saying they refuse to shop at our store now. good, go back to walmart. not sure why they feel the need to inform us of that. i'm just going to tell them that they can use the family restroom if they have an issue with it.
> 
> but, in all seriousness, i am all for LGBT equality and believe everyone should feel comfortable in whatever bathroom they're in. however, i do understand why SOME of these people are angry. target publicly stated that its transgender team members and guests are welcome to use the bathrooms that correspond to their gender identities. as someone mentioned before, in a worst case scenario, this means a pedophile or a sex offender could pose as transgender for the day, pretend he's in his early transition, so still physically looking like a male, (or just dress up as a woman) enter the women's bathroom, and you know where this is going. personally, as a woman, that thought terrifies me. now no one can really differentiate between who is transgender and who is not, and who is in their early transition and who is not. and there are a lot of sick people out there, unfortunately. the fact that target publicly stated this sort of puts the idea out there, for any sick person to grasp and take action with.
> 
> ...



If someone is really worried about it we have both a family restroom and a single stall bathroom right next to pharmacy as well


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 25, 2016)

I think it says something about the US with how terrified people are of getting assaulted in public in a restroom of a store


----------



## bkh (Apr 25, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> I think it says something about the US with how terrified people are of getting assaulted in public in a restroom of a store


i think so too. but i have come across quite a few disturbing/weird experiences while on the clock with creepy men that make it seem like the above scenario is something a bit realistic. for example, just last week i was at the fitting room desk when an older, sweaty man came over with a younger chick who was trying on nightgowns and lingerie. he leaned over the desk and said "the best nightgowns are leather and rope, don't you think?" and when i didn't reply, he was like, "just say yes." and that's when i speed-walked as far away from him as i could go. i had to go back to the FR to get my water bottle, he was still there, and he was like "so, what areas do you work in??" just rubbed me the wrong way.

idk, this topic is a tough one

edit: this story could potentially give away my identity but i don't really care. i'm new. hi.


----------



## bkh (Apr 25, 2016)

people being terrified of being assaulted by anyone who's transgender due to this policy though, are idiots. that, i do not understand


----------



## semantics (Apr 25, 2016)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Check out this article from USA TODAY:
> 
> Boycott grows over Target transgender policy
> 
> More than 500,000 boycott Target over transgender bathroom policy


Just like all those people who move to Canada every 4 years because president xxx is the devil.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 25, 2016)

bkh said:


> i think so too. but i have come across quite a few disturbing/weird experiences while on the clock with creepy men that make it seem like the above scenario is something a bit realistic. for example, just last week i was at the fitting room desk when an older, sweaty man came over with a younger chick who was trying on nightgowns and lingerie. he leaned over the desk and said "the best nightgowns are leather and rope, don't you think?" and when i didn't reply, he was like, "just say yes." and that's when i speed-walked as far away from him as i could go. i had to go back to the FR to get my water bottle, he was still there, and he was like "so, what areas do you work in??" just rubbed me the wrong way.


The above instance would occur regardless of the policy but, because Target publicly stated their support for transgender folk, everyone is dreaming up the hide-your-wives-and-daughters-from-pervs-dressed-as-women scenarios.
They act like the women's restroom sign had a force field against anything with a Y chromosome & this will open the door for someone to 'take advantage' of gender identification.
Macy's reported an incident in which a man impersonated a woman, went into the ladies' restroom & was taking pics of women/girls in neighboring stalls. A woman became suspicious, notified management who then notified their security personnel. The guy was detained, arrested & charged with voyeurism.
This very scenarios would've happened regardless & the outcome would've been the same.
Do you really think someone wouldn't hear a child screaming in a restroom? Kids' voices reach decibel levels that could shatter glass.
Even if a perv waited until they were alone, someone could've walked in at any time & IF a parent is concerned, they should go in with the child or be right outside the door watching who goes in like a hawk.
@bkh: If that old lech asked me that, I'd look him straight in the eye & say "Let's call security & see what THEY think."


----------



## bkh (Apr 25, 2016)

redeye58 said:


> The above instance would occur regardless of the policy but, because Target publicly stated their support for transgender folk, everyone is dreaming up the hide-your-wives-and-daughters-from-pervs-dressed-as-women scenarios.
> They act like the women's restroom sign had a force field against anything with a Y chromosome & this will open the door for someone to 'take advantage' of gender identification.
> Macy's reported an incident in which a man impersonated a woman, went into the ladies' restroom & was taking pics of women/girls in neighboring stalls. A woman became suspicious, notified management who then notified their security personnel. The guy was detained, arrested & charged with voyeurism.
> This very scenarios would've happened regardless & the outcome would've been the same.
> ...


you have a point. i'm just trying to see it from their perspective, but i guess you're right. not sure why they'd be letting their kid go alone in the first place if they're that concerned.

hahaha, unfortunately AP wasn't in that night.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 25, 2016)

bkh said:


> you have a point. i'm just trying to see it from their perspective, but i guess you're right. not sure why they'd be letting their kid go alone in the first place if they're that concerned.
> 
> hahaha, unfortunately AP wasn't in that night.


AP may not have been in, but I bet if you called anyone, specifically large male, the creep would have backed away.  You have a walkie; call out "Creeper in the fitting room," and I bet the place would have been stormed.  lol


----------



## Redzee (Apr 25, 2016)

Day X-hundred and seventy two. Despite grave reservations have used bathroom with no in incident. Could I be overreacting?


----------



## qmosqueen (Apr 26, 2016)

and now this Pastor  .... WTF 




Mt. Juliet pastor’s video blasting Target goes viral


----------



## Patty (Apr 26, 2016)

Pastor?  These people crack me up- endlessly entertaining, but so sad too


----------



## Backroom81 (Apr 26, 2016)

Is that the same idiot who was whining about Starbucks cups?


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 26, 2016)

Backroom81 said:


> Is that the same idiot who was whining about Starbucks cups?


Yes.


----------



## Signkitty (Apr 26, 2016)

Why would anyone with common sense put their name on a boycott pledge against the company they work for?

We don't even use our real names here or photos here.


----------



## IndominusTaco (Apr 26, 2016)

maxohara said:


> For those who have common sense, even tho you happen to work for Target, you can still sign the petition. Sign the Boycott Target Pledge!


LOL. You'd be making more of a protest/statement by just quitting your job. If you're against tolerance and respect for other human beings, go work for Walmart. Oh wait, I forgot, Walmart has the same bathroom policy too, as do most public businesses. Damn, seems like you just can't get away from those pesky transgendered people (people who are obviously all terrible, disturbed perverted monsters in your opinion). In public bathrooms. Emphasis on public, because you know, they're meant for the public to use, and is plain outright discrimination to say that a group of people don't have the right to use a public bathroom.

By signing that petition, here's what you're actually saying. "I am a closed minded, intolerant, hateful, naive bigot against transgendered people because all transgendered people are perverted, disturbed, monsters. Transgendered people should not have the same rights as me, and therefore transgendered people are lesser than me and their life and their rights should not be respected as much as my own are."


----------



## snoboy8999 (Apr 26, 2016)

No thanks Max. I'm good for now on signing your petition. Too busy supporting equity and diversity over here to help you out but I'll let ya know!


----------



## IndominusTaco (Apr 26, 2016)

maxohara said:


> Don't let the ignorant rants of pro-LGBT and those who favor mentally unstable trannies, perverts, and child molestors, over the safety of children and women affect your beliefs. Just because you're still wearing the red and khakis, that doesn't automatically make you as stupid as your dumbass co-workers who love that any man can go in the womens restroom whenever they want. If a customer comes up to you, and says they're uncomfortable taking their kids into the public restroom, tell them to use the family restroom, or the private one by pharmacy. If those are occupied, tell them to use the backroom restroom. If someone says they can't use the backroom restroom, then they are being discriminated against by Target.
> Sign the Boycott Target Pledge!


Again. I would advise you to quit Target if you're so adamantly against the bathroom policy. Like I said before (if you even bothered to read my post), quitting your job would make much more of an impact than signing a petition from a largely unfavorable and disliked nonprofit, not to mention about 75% of your petition signers won't keep their pledge. I'm just trying to help you out, it would really benefit all parties involved here if you just quit. Target's core belief is about diversity, inclusivity, and equality. These are all traits you are firmly against, so it would seem to me that would go against your morals to work for such a philanthropic corporation. So just quit. You working for Target is similar to you repeatedly stabbing yourself, hating the fact that you're stabbing yourself, then continue to stab yourself.


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 26, 2016)

IndominusTaco said:


> LOL. You'd be making more of a protest/statement by just quitting your job. If you're against tolerance and respect for other human beings, go work for Walmart. Oh wait, I forgot, Walmart has the same bathroom policy too, as do most public businesses. Damn, seems like you just can't get away from those pesky transgendered people (people who are obviously all terrible, disturbed perverted monsters in your opinion). In public bathrooms. Emphasis on public, because you know, they're meant for the public to use, and is plain outright discrimination to say that a group of people don't have the right to use a public bathroom.
> 
> By signing that petition, here's what you're actually saying. "I am a closed minded, intolerant, hateful, naive bigot against transgendered people because all transgendered people are perverted, disturbed, monsters. Transgendered people should not have the same rights as me, and therefore transgendered people are lesser than me and their life and their rights should not be respected as much as my own are."


You had missed the Black Friday protest.


----------



## FixItMan (Apr 26, 2016)

Since this topic seems to be kicking up a lot of dust I think it'd be smart to just remove the public restrooms altogether. Why do we even provide the restrooms in the first place? I've stood up front and watched people come in the door as soon as they're opened and go straight to the restroom just to stink it up! Why the hell don't they use their own toilet before leaving their house in the morning??? If we just removed the restrooms we could add more shelf space to sell more merchandise and think of the time we'd save not having to do all those restroom checks every hour. Also we would save a lot of money on paper supplies also and spend less time on sap ordering the stuff.


----------



## NPC (Apr 26, 2016)




----------



## BlueSide (Apr 26, 2016)

Erika Griffin...wow. You win the "stupid" award.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 26, 2016)

Where is the outrage about our lost benefits and pay/ hours? I know the entitled worry about their concerns. Wish we could be as important.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 26, 2016)

Just what exactly is Targer supposed to do about ISIS?


----------



## Kompa (Apr 26, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> Just what exactly is Targer supposed to do about ISIS?


Sell them redcards


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 26, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> Just what exactly is Targer supposed to do about ISIS?


And never mind that Target has had this policy in place for quite some time.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Apr 26, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> Just what exactly is Targer supposed to do about ISIS?



Cart Attendant, we have some ISIS in the bathroom, can you get rid of that for us?


----------



## Rustyshackelford (Apr 26, 2016)

BlueSide said:


> View attachment 2077
> Erika Griffin...wow. You win the "stupid" award.


"Hey backroom, we have a Flex Order for Last name, Daesh, first name the, can you drop some freedom off for us?"
"It would be my pleasure"
*fires up predator drone from PDA*


----------



## Rustyshackelford (Apr 26, 2016)

Well here in the Palmetto State, we've seen our sales slump. It actually sucks because we were doing pretty well for the year and hours were picking up, but they just cut a bunch of ours for 2 weeks out. I really hope this stuff passes or I'll be pretty upset that with such a public and politicised way of announcing this, they throw the livelihoods of stores in the Bible Belt as collateral damage for a corporate policy we already have. It sucks that there aren't droves of trans and pro-LBGTQ activists in our area to make up for the loss of conservative soccer moms. With all that being said, I am all for the inclusionary policy and think this pedo bathroom stuff is just a boogey man, and a little sexist to say that:
-all rapists and pedos are men
-it's okay for little boys to go to the bathroom with pedo men but not ever to risk our valuable daughters because how else will we be able to get two cows and thee chickens if her chastity isn't intact

Pedos don't even molest children in bathrooms, and even the ones who do the stranger danger pedoing don't go into bathrooms where anybody can walk in at any time. Most pedos are experienced, and you can't be an experienced pedo without being smart, and you can't be smart by molesting in a place where anybody can walk in, where the parents are nearby, where people can see you coming and going with relative ease, and where cameras can time signature and prove you were there. So again, I'm all for the policy, but getting paid is the only reason I'm at Target, so when my hours start getting the hit, it's really frustrating.


----------



## Kartman (Apr 26, 2016)

The roof! The roof!

It's on fire!


----------



## TheLurkerBelow (Apr 27, 2016)

Well in defense of people against this, there is this:

Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter


I think if someone is physically resembling of a male or female, then it might be OK. However based on laws/policies being proposed, people can just "claim" to be transgender.

There's always the unisex restrooms also.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 27, 2016)

FixItMan said:


> Since this topic seems to be kicking up a lot of dust I think it'd be smart to just remove the public restrooms altogether. Why do we even provide the restrooms in the first place? I've stood up front and watched people come in the door as soon as they're opened and go straight to the restroom just to stink it up! Why the hell don't they use their own toilet before leaving their house in the morning??? If we just removed the restrooms we could add more shelf space to sell more merchandise and think of the time we'd save not having to do all those restroom checks every hour. Also we would save a lot of money on paper supplies also and spend less time on sap ordering the stuff.




There are laws about places that serve food and that have over x number of square feet having to have public rest rooms.
You can have locks on them so that people have to ask to use them every time (wouldn't that be fun) but you have to have them.


----------



## DoWork (Apr 27, 2016)

This thread has provided a lot of laughs. The lengths people go to in order to preserve discrimination is never anything short of amazing. Quote religion, 'risk', or old fashioned ways, I don't care. Bigots gone big.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 27, 2016)

A different take from a pastor in my denomination:

On Restrooms, Gender, and Fear


----------



## Kartman (Apr 27, 2016)




----------



## DoWork (Apr 27, 2016)

What about people with both? Men with two penises?


----------



## NPC (Apr 27, 2016)

DoWork said:


> What about people with both? Men with two penises?



He gets to pee in 2 urinals at once.


----------



## DoWork (Apr 27, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> He gets to pee in 2 urinals at once.



No fair. He gets to target practice with two targets?!


----------



## NPC (Apr 27, 2016)

DoWork said:


> No fair. He gets to target practice with two targets?!



The mans got 2 peniseseses! Yes!


----------



## Life201 (Apr 27, 2016)

jb08045 said:


> Sell them redcards



Ask: Can I help you kill someone?


----------



## queencat (Apr 27, 2016)

Our store has been getting threats about it.
I don't even live in a really conservative area....


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 27, 2016)

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

How other stores are handling transgender bathroom policies

How other stores are handling transgender bathroom policies


----------



## phibot (Apr 27, 2016)

I got put on the spot about this today while I was on backup, after being harassed by the GSA about getting a redcard while up there. She was upset and said "I hope this policy is just as much of a fad as what they're pandering to." 

I won't state my views on this one way or the other because no one is going to change my mind and I'm not going to change someone else's mind on an online forum, but it's clear that people are very passionate about this.

First time being anything other than electronics in over a year, will continue to avoid going up for backup like the plague.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 27, 2016)

Kartman said:


> View attachment 2081


What about hermaphrodites?


----------



## NPC (Apr 27, 2016)

redeye58 said:


> What about hermaphrodites?



I guess whichever one has the shorter line. So...the men's. Lol.


----------



## FixItMan (Apr 27, 2016)

I think Target HQ stepped in it big this time. Why does it always seem like HQ likes to stir 
the pot like this. If these people signing the boycott petition are serious then that will be a huge economic impact. The boycott petition will be at 1 mil by eod tomorrow. Just think about that for a moment....if 1 mil people quit spending even just $100 annually at Target that's a loss of $100 mil a year. How do you make that revenue back? Now of course the average shopper spends way more than that. I remember reading the average Target shopper spends between $5k to $8k a year at Target. Well, if that revenue goes away your looking at a loss of around $5 billion annually.....that's right we are talking an economic impact of BILLIONS!!! This is a very serious matter. You guys can joke around about it all you like but it's our hours and our jobs that will be on the chopping block all because a group of policy makers at HQ decided to put on their social champions superhero capes to save the day when no one really needed to be saved. Most stores already have a separate restroom with a door that locks and with a toilet. What, that's not good enough for people???
We are supposed to be a company that's in business to make money eyes not make social statements that that cause that money to go elsewhere! Jeez!


----------



## NPC (Apr 27, 2016)

FixItMan said:


> I think Target HQ stepped in it big this time. Why does it always seem like HQ likes to stir
> the pot like this. If these people signing the boycott petition are serious then that will be a huge economic impact. The boycott petition will be at 1 mil by eod tomorrow. Just think about that for a moment....if 1 mil people quit spending even just $100 annually at Target that's a loss of $100 mil a year. How do you make that revenue back? Now of course the average shopper spends way more than that. I remember reading the average Target shopper spends between $5k to $8k a year at Target. Well, if that revenue goes away your looking at a loss of around $5 billion annually.....that's right we are talking an economic impact of BILLIONS!!! This is a very serious matter. You guys can joke around about it all you like but it's our hours and our jobs that will be on the chopping block all because a group of policy makers at HQ decided to put on their social champions superhero capes to save the day when no one really needed to be saved. Most stores already have a separate restroom with a door that locks and with a toilet. What, that's not good enough for people???
> We are supposed to be a company that's in business to make money eyes not make social statements that that cause that money to go elsewhere! Jeez!



This is one of those times where I don't mind slacktivism. I'd wager thay a lot of the people signing petitions...will still continue to shop at Target.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 27, 2016)

FixItMan said:


> I think Target HQ stepped in it big this time. Why does it always seem like HQ likes to stir
> the pot like this. If these people signing the boycott petition are serious then that will be a huge economic impact. The boycott petition will be at 1 mil by eod tomorrow. Just think about that for a moment....if 1 mil people quit spending even just $100 annually at Target that's a loss of $100 mil a year. How do you make that revenue back? Now of course the average shopper spends way more than that. I remember reading the average Target shopper spends between $5k to $8k a year at Target. Well, if that revenue goes away your looking at a loss of around $5 billion annually.....that's right we are talking an economic impact of BILLIONS!!! This is a very serious matter. You guys can joke around about it all you like but it's our hours and our jobs that will be on the chopping block all because a group of policy makers at HQ decided to put on their social champions superhero capes to save the day when no one really needed to be saved. Most stores already have a separate restroom with a door that locks and with a toilet. What, that's not good enough for people???
> We are supposed to be a company that's in business to make money eyes not make social statements that that cause that money to go elsewhere! Jeez!


I don't believe that it will have as great of an impact as you think.  But at any rate, there's nothing superhero about doing the right thing...ever.  Target did the right thing.  If you feel so strongly, I'd suggest that you look somewhere to work that is more in alignment with your beliefs.  A separate restroom with a door that locks is not the answer.  Treating all guests equally is the answer.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 27, 2016)

This isn't spot's first social controversy & it won't be their last.
Yeh, that's a lot of sigs on the AFA's petition but very few people are really gonna carry this out.
It's like all the brouhaha over the credit breach; all the people who said they'd NEVER shop at Target again were back in two weeks because of some sale or other promo.
Consumers are fickle at best & convenient amnesiacs at worst.
There'll be a few outrageous actions before it dies down.
Right now AFA is basking in the attention.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 27, 2016)

FixItMan said:


> I think Target HQ stepped in it big this time. Why does it always seem like HQ likes to stir
> the pot like this. If these people signing the boycott petition are serious then that will be a huge economic impact. The boycott petition will be at 1 mil by eod tomorrow. Just think about that for a moment....if 1 mil people quit spending even just $100 annually at Target that's a loss of $100 mil a year. How do you make that revenue back? Now of course the average shopper spends way more than that. I remember reading the average Target shopper spends between $5k to $8k a year at Target. Well, if that revenue goes away your looking at a loss of around $5 billion annually.....that's right we are talking an economic impact of BILLIONS!!! This is a very serious matter. You guys can joke around about it all you like but it's our hours and our jobs that will be on the chopping block all because a group of policy makers at HQ decided to put on their social champions superhero capes to save the day when no one really needed to be saved. Most stores already have a separate restroom with a door that locks and with a toilet. What, that's not good enough for people???
> We are supposed to be a company that's in business to make money eyes not make social statements that that cause that money to go elsewhere! Jeez!



Same reason I refuse to shop Hobby Lobby.. I can tell you that half of these people come black Friday will be in line outside wanting that super cheap TV.. And some signed but have never set foot in our stores, not a loss. This policy is not new and won't change, they can't without really offending their own employees.. And like it or not Spot has been for at least the last 5+ years(as long I have been an employee) LGBT friendly.. Something Spot hasn't made huge announcements about until now.. So these people are angry about something they have supported for years.

And I found that the ones who scream the loudest are usually the biggest liars. I have seen this with my own eyes with another group of loud religious protestors.


----------



## tgtguy (Apr 27, 2016)

Apparently, ( I say apparently because I didn't hear it first hand, someone else did and told me about it ) at my store today a guest asked a guest services tm to stand outside the bathroom door....while she used the restroom. The guest told the guest services tm that she was worried a man would go in there while she was in there. The tm politely said sure I can do that ...and went and stood outside the bathroom door. When, I first heard this I laughed cause I thought wow ....that's just funny. Then, I really started to think about it and it made me mad . To start with, IF the guest really had to use the restroom that bad...she wouldn't had time to stand in line at guest services then give her speech and ask the tm to stand guard. Secondly, if you are that pissed off about the "new" bathroom policy why the hell are you in there shopping to begin with?  Thirdly, the guest ( from what I was told ) used the family restroom...which has a LOCK on it . I am willing to bet this guest didn't have to use the restroom she was trying to make a statement. Ma'am you made a statement alright....and it wasn't the statement you intended to make. Just stay home ...don't shop Spot...and for PETES  say don't use the restroom if you are so worried about it .. Lastly, to the tm who had to stand outside the bathroom door...you are better than I am...I would had called the lod up there to deal with that crap.


----------



## Rock Lobster (Apr 27, 2016)

FixItMan said:


> I think Target HQ stepped in it big this time. Why does it always seem like HQ likes to stir
> the pot like this. If these people signing the boycott petition are serious then that will be a huge economic impact. The boycott petition will be at 1 mil by eod tomorrow. Just think about that for a moment....if 1 mil people quit spending even just $100 annually at Target that's a loss of $100 mil a year. How do you make that revenue back? Now of course the average shopper spends way more than that. I remember reading the average Target shopper spends between $5k to $8k a year at Target. Well, if that revenue goes away your looking at a loss of around $5 billion annually.....that's right we are talking an economic impact of BILLIONS!!! This is a very serious matter. You guys can joke around about it all you like but it's our hours and our jobs that will be on the chopping block all because a group of policy makers at HQ decided to put on their social champions superhero capes to save the day when no one really needed to be saved. Most stores already have a separate restroom with a door that locks and with a toilet. What, that's not good enough for people???
> We are supposed to be a company that's in business to make money eyes not make social statements that that cause that money to go elsewhere! Jeez!



That one million shoppers are likely not Target shoppers in the first place.  Second, if they are Target shoppers, they are statistically more likely to be poor, uneducated, or older.  This means that their economic power is weaker in the long run (either due to not having money or dying).  It is better to get the buying power of the younger generations, who will be spending money at Target for the next 60-70 years because they remember that Target understands social standards today, and doesn't pander to bigots.


----------



## Branded (Apr 27, 2016)

If someone is trans you are not going to be able to tell the difference. So leave them alone and let them pee in peace.


----------



## LUR99 (Apr 27, 2016)

tgtguy said:


> Apparently, ( I say apparently because I didn't hear it first hand, someone else did and told me about it ) at my store today a guest asked a guest services tm to stand outside the bathroom door....while she used the restroom. The guest told the guest services tm that she was worried a man would go in there while she was in there. The tm politely said sure I can do that ...and went and stood outside the bathroom door. When, I first heard this I laughed cause I thought wow ....that's just funny. Then, I really started to think about it and it made me mad . To start with, IF the guest really had to use the restroom that bad...she wouldn't had time to stand in line at guest services then give her speech and ask the tm to stand guard. Secondly, if you are that pissed off about the "new" bathroom policy why the hell are you in there shopping to begin with?  Thirdly, the guest ( from what I was told ) used the family restroom...which has a LOCK on it . I am willing to bet this guest didn't have to use the restroom she was trying to make a statement. Ma'am you made a statement alright....and it wasn't the statement you intended to make. Just stay home ...don't shop Spot...and for PETES  say don't use the restroom if you are so worried about it .. Lastly, to the tm who had to stand outside the bathroom door...you are better than I am...I would had called the lod up there to deal with that crap.



I am a GSTM and I was thinking that I would not be surprised if a Guest would do that. I would take everything out of me not to to roll my eyes at that person. I usually have a gazillion things to do at the service desk. Photo is my job as well and I watch the lanes when the GSA's or GSTL's go on breaks. I don't have time to play guard at the restroom to for some idiot trying to make a statement. 
Wow, I sound angry today lol. Luckily I am off tomorrow .


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 27, 2016)

All the Things You Can No Longer Buy if You’re Really Boycotting Trans-Friendly Businesses


Just wanted to share something that I saw.


----------



## snoboy8999 (Apr 27, 2016)

My summary of thoughts.

1. This wasn't a decision Target made without thinking about long-term effect.
2. I'm sure everyone that says that they are boycotting aren't actually going to do so long-term anyways.
3. If you are seeing someones genitals in a bathroom, there's an issue. And it doesn't involve transgenders preying on little girls.
4. Sex isn't gender.

That's all for now.


----------



## NPC (Apr 27, 2016)

In the case of a guest asking a TM to wait outside the restroom for them....would it have been appropriate to say "no" to that? If that happened to me, I would have said, "Sorry, I can't do that. But our policy doesn't allow men into the restroom." Would Target have my back on that?


----------



## Kartman (Apr 27, 2016)

I'm glad I'm not the operator.


----------



## LUR99 (Apr 27, 2016)

Kartman said:


> I'm glad I'm not the operator.



Me too, although the operator dumps the phone on me when she's has to use the bathroom or takes her breaks.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 28, 2016)

Kartman said:


> I'm glad I'm not the operator.


I'm glad I'm not the LOD

At least as operator I can just hang up


----------



## KingBear (Apr 28, 2016)

Our operator comes in at 9 am so I got to answer the pinging overhead ringing phone this morning at 8:15 and I'm like "hi this is target at [bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz], this is the operator, can I help you find something?" I get a gentleman with a really redneck-sounding voice:

"Hiiii, my name's Bill, I've been a customer at your store for a long time, but I'm not coming in anymore because of your new restroom policy, you understand"

me, aggressively chipper at this point: "OKAY! Thanks for letting us know!"
"You're all going to burn in hell"
"HAVE A NICE DAY"
"*click*"

Fuckin' coward. Like, literally, you're just gonna call the operator and be like "hey operator your place sucks and you're all damned" and not even throw that at the LOD. Lemme go to a restaurant and be like "hey, table server, your place is run by idiots and you shouldn't have taken the double mozzarella sticks off of your dinner menu. REPENT OR SUFFER, SINNER" like holy shit even if I gave a shit about this guy's shitty opinion I'm just a guy answering a phone and you want me to act like I give a shit about your stupid customer complaint that you can't even hold for a manager!! Hey, Bill, sorry you had to blow your fucking wad as soon as you heard a voice on the phone! Fuckin' byeeeeeeeeeeeeee, dickass!


----------



## NPC (Apr 28, 2016)

KingBear said:


> Our operator comes in at 9 am so I got to answer the pinging overhead ringing phone this morning at 8:15 and I'm like "hi this is target at [bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz], this is the operator, can I help you find something?" I get a gentleman with a really redneck-sounding voice:
> 
> "Hiiii, my name's Bill, I've been a customer at your store for a long time, but I'm not coming in anymore because of your new restroom policy, you understand"
> 
> ...



Should have said, "kay, see you there! Have a nice day!" It's a good thing I don't answer the phones...


----------



## Streetdate (Apr 28, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> In the case of a guest asking a TM to wait outside the restroom for them....would it have been appropriate to say "no" to that? If that happened to me, I would have said, "Sorry, I can't do that. But our policy doesn't allow men into the restroom." Would Target have my back on that?


Honestly not sure. Frankly it might not be worth the headache of the inevitable guest complaint if you say no. I would direct them to the family restroom and explain it has a lock.

The only way I can think of being able to decline would be to say, "No, because if someone attempts to enter the restroom, I'm not allowed to physically prevent them from doing so as that exposes me to an assault charge." But even then it's kinda shaky.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 28, 2016)

Is my former Target the only one without a family restroom?


----------



## tgtguy (Apr 28, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> In the case of a guest asking a TM to wait outside the restroom for them....would it have been appropriate to say "no" to that? If that happened to me, I would have said, "Sorry, I can't do that. But our policy doesn't allow men into the restroom." Would Target have my back on that?


Several of us were talking about what we would had done if we had been at the service desk. I would like to think that I would simply call an lod to the service desk and let them do bathroom duty. The Stl could come out of her office long enough to do that much. Once again , things like this make me so happy I work in the backroom.


----------



## tgtguy (Apr 28, 2016)

FixItMan said:


> I think Target HQ stepped in it big this time. Why does it always seem like HQ likes to stir
> the pot like this. If these people signing the boycott petition are serious then that will be a huge economic impact. The boycott petition will be at 1 mil by eod tomorrow. Just think about that for a moment....if 1 mil people quit spending even just $100 annually at Target that's a loss of $100 mil a year. How do you make that revenue back? Now of course the average shopper spends way more than that. I remember reading the average Target shopper spends between $5k to $8k a year at Target. Well, if that revenue goes away your looking at a loss of around $5 billion annually.....that's right we are talking an economic impact of BILLIONS!!! This is a very serious matter. You guys can joke around about it all you like but it's our hours and our jobs that will be on the chopping block all because a group of policy makers at HQ decided to put on their social champions superhero capes to save the day when no one really needed to be saved. Most stores already have a separate restroom with a door that locks and with a toilet. What, that's not good enough for people???
> We are supposed to be a company that's in business to make money eyes not make social statements that that cause that money to go elsewhere! Jeez!


You are correct in the fact that this could and will have economic ramifications. There are a couple stores in our district who are already cutting hours due to sales tanking . Yes, if it keeps on Spot will have to start making cuts and as we all know that  starts at the bottom. Ie less hours etc etc. However, on the other hand Spot doesn't have to bow down to a certain group of people ...just because that group doesn't agree with Spots policy. This is America...if you don't like something you have the right to protest  you have the right to boycott but that doesn't mean you will get your way. If you don't like the bathroom policy...shop elsewhere.  You don't have to sign a petition or call the store to tell them you are not shopping there any longer......they will know when people aren't showing up !  Spot isn't stupid they did their homework before they came out and reminded everyone of their bathroom policy. If Spot were to back down now they would be in far worse shape than they are now. This will pass in time...we may lose some guests. However, I am sure we will be gaining some new ones as well . I remember back in the early 90s preachers telling everyone to boycott Disney because they supported Homosexuals....Disney survived...they didn't cave in to protests etc. Mickey mouse seems to be doing pretty well these days .


----------



## Kartman (Apr 28, 2016)

So is this transgender shit the reason sales are down and the store's been dead the last week or so?

I can't believe Spot is doing this.


----------



## pennmw (Apr 28, 2016)

Let's make light of the situation for just a moment...







... ok.  Carry on.


----------



## StaticSun (Apr 28, 2016)

Kartman said:


> So is this transgender shit the reason sales are down and the store's been dead the last week or so?
> 
> I can't believe Spot is doing this.



I bet that if you were to go back in time 50-60 years and replace "transgender" with "colored" or "black" then your opinion would mold quite easily with the times. Whether or not you agree with someone's position is irrelevant. Imagine if you were in a large group of people with a certain "difference" about yourself and you were being discriminated against. What would yo do? 

I highly doubt the answer is "I'd change my own personal self to make sure I was accepted by everyone".


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 28, 2016)

StaticSun said:


> I bet that if you were to go back in time 50-60 years and replace "transgender" with "colored" or "black" then your opinion would mold quite easily with the times. Whether or not you agree with someone's position is irrelevant. Imagine if you were in a large group of people with a certain "difference" about yourself and you were being discriminated against. What would yo do?
> 
> I highly doubt the answer is "I'd change my own personal self to make sure I was accepted by everyone".


Yep. To all the people who say build a seperate bathroom for the Transgender people, they do not get that is basically segregation.


----------



## FixItMan (Apr 28, 2016)

tgtguy said:


> You are correct in the fact that this could and will have economic ramifications. There are a couple stores in our district who are already cutting hours due to sales tanking . Yes, if it keeps on Spot will have to start making cuts and as we all know that  starts at the bottom. Ie less hours etc etc. However, on the other hand Spot doesn't have to bow down to a certain group of people ...just because that group doesn't agree with Spots policy. This is America...if you don't like something you have the right to protest  you have the right to boycott but that doesn't mean you will get your way. If you don't like the bathroom policy...shop elsewhere.  You don't have to sign a petition or call the store to tell them you are not shopping there any longer......they will know when people aren't showing up !  Spot isn't stupid they did their homework before they came out and reminded everyone of their bathroom policy. If Spot were to back down now they would be in far worse shape than they are now. This will pass in time...we may lose some guests. However, I am sure we will be gaining some new ones as well . I remember back in the early 90s preachers telling everyone to boycott Disney because they supported Homosexuals....Disney survived...they didn't cave in to protests etc. Mickey mouse seems to be doing pretty well these days .



Yeah, I'm old enough to remember the bible thumpers boycott on Disney,  however, in this situation I think it's trying to compare apples and oranges. Disney provides a unique entertainment product with no other alternatives. They pretty much corner the market on theme parks on a national level. Retail however is and has always been a rather fickle buisness and Target is by no means the end all be all of retail. Absolutely dwarfed by Wal-Mart and several other competitors that are always waiting to swoop in and steal our market share. As for HQ doing their homework on this it would not be the first time they dropped the ball. Things that sound great in committee don't always translate well once implemented in the field (look at the Canada debacle). And it's not about bowing down to a certain segment of the population (although remember that can be interpreted both ways by both groups) I believe there should have been a more strategic announcement of this policy. Or at least clearer communication to ease the concerns of the general populace. Remember,  Target's average shopper is a middle class woman typically married with children and if you scare them (whether it is a real fear or a made up one) then the damage is done and will need to be repaired. If this thing doesn't blow over soon I think HQ is going to have to walk back some of this policy or at least clarify provisions in the policy to show we are not favouring one group over another. Its all in the wording you know.


----------



## Kartman (Apr 28, 2016)

I never  said what Spot did was right or wrong. I just think they could have handled it in a more tactful manner.

I don't quite know how they could have done it, though. That's for wiser people than me to decide...


----------



## TheLurkerBelow (Apr 28, 2016)

Lol -- hilarious comment I found on facebook:



> *The next time I am in target and I have to use the bathroom, I am going to to the aisle that has the kitty litter. I gonna take a bag pour it on the floor and go on it. My species identity is that I am actually a kitty Kat trapped in a human body. If target interferes I am gonna sue for discriminating against my species identity.  Meow! I am all for equality but this getting ridiculous*


----------



## RedMan (Apr 28, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> Is my former Target the only one without a family restroom?


In the SuperTarget I worked in, the family restroom was next to the pharmacy.  A few times when we had issues in the mens/womens restrooms, we'd have to send guests to the Pharmacy restroom and get grief because they had to walk ALL the way over there.  OK, don't go.  But you still can't go into this one because it's flooded or because someone shat in the lav or something ridiculous.  Public restrooms are the worst!


----------



## Nauzhror (Apr 28, 2016)

KimJungUn said:


> Being father to a young girl,  I do see some harm in it. I'm not comfortable with someone that has a penis using the same restroom as my little girl.
> 
> If transgender people want their own bathrooms I'm fine with that,  build them a 3rd shitter. I just don't care what someone "identifies as", if you have a penis you don't belong in a women's restroom.



Right because a man can't rape your little boy. And a woman can't rape your daughter.

Oh wait, those both can and do happen (I do not mean to imply you rape your child, I mean children get raped by the same sex, not your child specifically).

Not to mention, sexual orientation here has more importance then gender identity. ie. An adult female who is a lesbian is far more of a potential threat to your daughter than a person born as a man, who identifies as a woman, and is attracted to men is.

And no, I'm not promoting segregation of homosexuals/bisexuals, just pointing out the irony.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

i think the next step is target will have to revisit it's bestiality policy.  soon bestiality will be mandatory in target bathrooms.

target is obviously NWO and hell bent on destroying the family unit.  I got to witness it when they started firing all the actual men and putting high strung effiminate men into leadership in the best case scenario, and in the worst case homosexuals.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 28, 2016)

RedMan said:


> In the SuperTarget I worked in, the family restroom was next to the pharmacy.  A few times when we had issues in the mens/womens restrooms, we'd have to send guests to the Pharmacy restroom and get grief because they had to walk ALL the way over there.  OK, don't go.  But you still can't go into this one because it's flooded or because someone shat in the lav or something ridiculous.  Public restrooms are the worst!



There was no restroom by the pharmacy, either.


----------



## Kartman (Apr 28, 2016)

And so it begins..


----------



## oath2order (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i think the next step is target will have to revisit it's bestiality policy.  soon bestiality will be mandatory in target bathrooms.
> 
> target is obviously NWO and hell bent on destroying the family unit.  I got to witness it when they started firing all the actual men and putting high strung effiminate men into leadership in the best case scenario, and in the worst case homosexuals.



I truly cannot tell if this is a joke or not


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

no it's true.  they already received part of god's judgement with their failings in canada.


----------



## Kartman (Apr 28, 2016)

Walmart is staying mum, so far.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 28, 2016)

Kartman said:


> So is this transgender shit the reason sales are down and the store's been dead the last week or so?
> 
> I can't believe Spot is doing this.


I wonder _why? _


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 28, 2016)

I am a former great land & we have no family restroom.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 28, 2016)

oath2order said:


> I truly cannot tell if this is a joke or not


I'm going with he's serious.  This is the same former TM who posted two years ago:  what are some good ideas for abusing the knowledge you have as a former team member? I think enough time has passed that I'm going to start shopping at target as a guest, and just be like using the vibe against them.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

i signed the petition i will no longer be shopping at target and using the vibe against them


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 28, 2016)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> I am a former great land & we have no family restroom.



Ah...gotta be a Greatland thing.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i think the next step is target will have to revisit it's bestiality policy.  soon bestiality will be mandatory in target bathrooms.


But we have to revise our policy about non service animals first!!!


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 28, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> Ah...gotta be a Greatland thing.


Here is my store.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i signed the petition i will no longer be shopping at target and using the vibe against them


hahahaha  With guests like you, who needs enemies?  

Hope you have a nice life.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i signed the petition i will no longer be shopping at target and using the vibe against them



 Please don't support us, and why if you hate us so much now why are you here?

And in my store Vibe is dead so good luck with that..


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

I am here to fight for the future of mankind.


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> I am here to fight for the future of mankind.


You are so funny.


----------



## Kartman (Apr 28, 2016)

I want to see the superhero outfit.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 28, 2016)

Hey, Mods, it's been a while since I signed up, but don't ya have to older than 12 to use this forum?


----------



## Bosch (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> I am here to fight for the future of mankind.



Future of mankind and starts that fight on a target forum? Ok..... Sure dude..


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

it starts with defending the family unit.  target may want to seem "hip" by "standing up" for the rights of this very small segment of the population, but they really are illuminati owned and trying to push an agenda.


----------



## Deli Ninja (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> it starts with defending the family unit.  target may want to seem "hip" by "standing up" for the rights of this very small segment of the population, but they really are illuminati owned and trying to push an agenda.


Defending the family unit... so you don't shop anywhere that doesn't pay enough and give enough hours to every employee for one adult to support a family and a mortgage, right?


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

easy bernie


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 28, 2016)

what are some good ideas for abusing the knowledge you have as a former team member? I think enough time has passed that I'm going to start shopping at target as a guest, and just be like using the vibe against them.

invictustaylor, Feb 10, 2014


----------



## Bosch (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> it starts with defending the family unit.  target may want to seem "hip" by "standing up" for the rights of this very small segment of the population, but they really are illuminati owned and trying to push an agenda.



Remember your tinfoil hat next time you go out..


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

i'll be sure and wear tinfoil pants if i ever use a bathroom at target.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i'll be sure and wear tinfoil pants if i ever use a bathroom at target.



You don't shop there remember..


----------



## KingBear (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> but they really are illuminati owned and trying to push an agenda.


This made me check Infowars to see if this was some kind of common thing in that part of the internet, but nope, Infowars is just strictly anti-transgender but without calling Target Illuminati-owned. So thanks for making me check Infowars for nothing, jerk.


----------



## BlueSide (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i'll be sure and wear tinfoil pants if i ever use a bathroom at target.


Hahahaha wtf?


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

just because i don't shop there doesn't mean i wont' use the bathroom there.  and i worked at target for years, i think they are illuminati.


----------



## BlueSide (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> just because i don't shop there doesn't mean i wont' use the bathroom there.  and i worked at target for years, i think they are illuminati.


Well how bout this. I've only seen 5 posts from you and I KNOW you're an idiot.


----------



## Deli Ninja (Apr 28, 2016)

We're starting to derail (I accept part of the blame...). Time to refocus or step away.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

BlueSide said:


> Well how bout this. I've only seen 5 posts from you and I KNOW you're an idiot.



reported for flaming


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 28, 2016)

BlueSide said:


> Hahahaha wtf?


Search by their name & you will find the older threads by them.


----------



## BlueSide (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> reported for flaming


K. Sounds good. The illuminati will protect me.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

for a price


----------



## Bosch (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> just because i don't shop there doesn't mean i wont' use the bathroom there.  and i worked at target for years, i think they are illuminati.



More tinfoil all I can say more tin foil..


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 28, 2016)

Folks, we've done really well with this thread. Let's move along from the insults and stupid comments.

Thanks!


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 28, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> Folks, we've done really well with this thread. Let's move along from the insults and stupid comments.
> 
> Thanks!



Amen.


----------



## RunForACallBox (Apr 28, 2016)

This has hurt us sales wise where they are sending people home and asking if they even want to work the next day.


----------



## Streetdate (Apr 28, 2016)

Honestly for my store I'm not sure if we're down because of this or due to poor weather causing us not to sell as much patio. Probably sprinklings of column A and column B.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 28, 2016)

I haven't been in to my store in the past couple of weeks due to an injury and a bit of a staycation, gonna be interesting when I go in to close tomorrow.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

putting people in danger, putting the family unit at risk, hurting sales, and hurting the workers hours.  I'd like to recognize spot.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> I am here to fight for the future of mankind.


You forgot the sarcasm font.


----------



## soyaxo (Apr 28, 2016)

Had a guy call today who was so rude just to say that he had applied and was angry at the new policy about the restrooms. I calmly said "OK, sir, I can request HR to throw out your application. I just need your name--"
He replied "NO! Goodbye!"  He's the kind of person to do this *See file


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> putting people in danger, putting the family unit at risk, hurting sales, and hurting the workers hours.  I'd like to recognize spot.




Was this supposed to be in the Sarcasm Font?

Because, seriously dude, I remember your old posts and they were funny and a little silly but never got into the JWL territory.
We've had a lot of practice ignoring trolls around here but I promise, of late, we've gotten quicker with the hammer.

For everybody else, if somebody annoys you put them on ignore and move on.
It's not worth getting into a battle of with someone who doesn't have any ammun... well you know the rest.


----------



## Formina Sage (Apr 28, 2016)

oofta I have a lot of reading to catch up on


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

commiecorvus said:


> Was this supposed to be in the Sarcasm Font?
> 
> Because, seriously dude, I remember your old posts and they were funny and a little silly but never got into the JWL territory.
> We've had a lot of practice ignoring trolls around here but I promise, of late, we've gotten quicker with the hammer.
> ...



am i not allowed to express an unpopular opinion?  i'm not trolling anybody that's just exactly how i see it.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

i'm sorry that it is going to hurt your hours if you work at target, but it's what needs to happen.


----------



## Kartman (Apr 28, 2016)

Ermahgawd


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 28, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> am i not allowed to express an unpopular opinion?  i'm not trolling anybody that's just exactly how i see it.




Express away, we have no problems with unique perspectives as long as they aren't meant strictly for the purpose of creating havoc.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 28, 2016)

okay, i understand.  sorry if i stirred something up with my viewpoints.


----------



## Ambeeezzy (Apr 29, 2016)

We should all just share bathrooms. 

No gender bathroom. We all use toliets. Not having a Woman's bathroom will actually Mean phedophiles couldnt prey on a woman's restroom because it wouldnt exist. cant say all men are phedophiles. plus thats why there is stalls for privacy, if we shared we would also have less chances of being alone if there was anything To happen. Which shit happens because the world is already messed up. But most men and women would stand up against sexual assault if it was to occur and they walked in on it. Plus whats even the research on occurances of sexual assaults being in a public bathroom. but lets please continue to argue over where we pee and poop.


----------



## BoxCutter (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i think the next step is target will have to revisit it's bestiality policy. soon bestiality will be mandatory in target bathrooms.



You're sending mixed messages here invictustaylor.


----------



## griezmanns (Apr 29, 2016)

I've seen no cut in hours since this policy came out to the public. I've even been getting extra shifts, staying later, etc. I mean I guess we'll see what happens, new schedule is out today.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 29, 2016)

Lawmaker says he'll help Target leave Texas over Transgender Policy. Huffpost 19 hrs ago.  Quoting my neighbor "Boy howdy."


----------



## oath2order (Apr 29, 2016)

Formina Sage said:


> oofta I have a lot of reading to catch up on



hello welcome to the shitshow may i take your order


----------



## oath2order (Apr 29, 2016)

griezmanns said:


> I've seen no cut in hours since this policy came out to the public. I've even been getting extra shifts, staying later, etc. I mean I guess we'll see what happens, new schedule is out today.



On the newest schedule I've gone UP in hours  Usually been around 32, now I'm at 36.

Granted, we have inventory on the week of the newest schedule but still.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

Guys, the ignore function is very useful.

However, like a bad car accident, I couldn't look away.


----------



## BoxCutter (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> just because i don't shop there doesn't mean i wont' use the bathroom there.  and i worked at target for years, i think they are illuminati.


So, you will not shop at Target because you are against the company's policy on transgenders and their use of Target restrooms. However, you will come to Target just to use the restrooms that are under the policy you think is evil.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

Over/under how many times invictustaylor shared a bathroom with a transgender and didn't realize it? I say 20.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> Over/under how many times invictustaylor shared a bathroom with a transgender and didn't realize it? I say 20.



Just wait till he finds out how many spiders/random crawling thing, he will eat while he sleeps in his lifetime...

Actually, don't tell him.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

By the way, I find it funny that people that support this law still don't know what the law means. People like invictustaylor are like "you can't use the women's bathroom if you were born with a penis!". But you can use the bathroom of the gender you associate with as long as you get a sex change.

But the problem is that most people don't realize that, so this law just stirs up a lot of hate and bigotry for transgendered people, even if they change their gender on their birth certificate. There shouldn't have been a law in their first place.


----------



## Bosch (Apr 29, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> Folks, we've done really well with this thread. Let's move along from the insults and stupid comments.
> 
> Thanks!



I held back the insulting and just plain nasty accusations.. I settled on tinfoil to be polite.. 


BoxCutter said:


> So, you will not shop at Target because you are against the company's policy on transgenders and their use of Target restrooms. However, you will come to Target just to use the restrooms that are under the policy you think is evil.



Kinda what I was thinking.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

if target was illuminati that would go against their plans to


dannyy315 said:


> By the way, I find it funny that people that support this law still don't know what the law means. People like invictustaylor are like "you can't use the women's bathroom if you were born with a penis!". But you can use the bathroom of the gender you associate with as long as you get a sex change.
> 
> But the problem is that most people don't realize that, so this law just stirs up a lot of hate and bigotry for transgendered people, even if they change their gender on their birth certificate. There shouldn't have been a law in their first place.



ummm.....i've called several local targets and explained that i am a male and sometimes i wear dresses and asked what bathroom can i use and they all said whichever one i want.

btw....boycott reaches 1 million target stocks sink by 1.5 billion...

Target Boycott Crosses 1 Million Signers, Stock Sinks by $1.5 Billion - Breitbart


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

Anyone know who we call when we need a Guest's Genitals inspected? I am guessing Hardlines four?

I am in at 4 am so i rarely ever make it to huddle and missed out on anything that might be genital related.. which honestly is maybe the one huddle I may be sorry I missed.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

BigEyedPhish said:


> Anyone know who we call when we need a Guest's Genitals inspected? I am guessing Hardlines four?
> 
> I am in at 4 am so i rarely ever make it to huddle and missed out on anything that might be genital related.. which honestly is maybe the one huddle I may be sorry I missed.



apparently this isn't necessary because genitals, hormones, and the biological sex someone is born with has NOTHING to do with gender.  it's all about what you identify with.


----------



## Kaitii (Apr 29, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> But you can use the bathroom of the gender you associate with as long as you get a sex change.



Um,,,,no???? Gender has nothing to do with the junk you got and sex changes are extremely difficult to get 

You can use the bathroom with the gender you identify with no matter what


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> Um,,,,no???? Gender has nothing to do with the junk you got and sex changes are extremely difficult to get
> 
> You can use the bathroom with the gender you identify with no matter what



thank you.....now watch this guy try and get women to accept that he is a 6 foot 5 chinese lady...


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> thank you.....now watch this guy try and get women to accept that he is a 6 foot 5 chinese lady...




Well, my Fake ID in college that said I was 6'5" worked.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 29, 2016)

commiecorvus said:


> Express away, we have no problems with unique perspectives as long as they aren't meant strictly for the purpose of creating havoc.


How much longer do we have to stay nice?


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

Kaitii said:


> Um,,,,no???? Gender has nothing to do with the junk you got and sex changes are extremely difficult to get
> 
> You can use the bathroom with the gender you identify with no matter what


I'm talking about North Carolina. The law says you have to use the bathroom of the gender on the birth certificate, which you can change.

And I agree it's difficult and that shouldn't be the case. My point was that transgendered people who do go through the sex change and gender change on their birth certificate will still face bigotry and hate.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> I'm talking about North Carolina. The law says you have to use the bathroom of the gender on the birth certificate, which you can change.
> 
> And I agree it's difficult and that shouldn't be the case. My point was that transgendered people who do go through the sex change and gender change on their birth certificate will still face bigotry and hate.



maybe bigeyedphish can hook them up with forged documents.  i mean, if he had a fake id in college to consume alcohol, i'm sure we can start accepting fake identities and documents to accomodate people that have these bathroom issues.   disclaimer, if this upsets you i couldn't find sarcasm font.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Nearly 1 Million Sign Pledge to Boycott Target Over Bathroom Policy

poll if you agree with the bathroom policy

yes 23 percent

no 77 percent


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 29, 2016)

My store is still just as busy, if not more than usual. Besides that one rude bitch that went off on me about the bathroom policy (so fast that I couldn't even offer to walkie the LOD) no one else has said anything that I'm aware of. Everyone is still peeing in the bathrooms. Mothers and children are left unharmed... shocking right.


----------



## Deli Ninja (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> Nearly 1 Million Sign Pledge to Boycott Target Over Bathroom Policy


The pledge only counts the number of unique e-mail addresses and evidently the address doesn't even have to exist to be used. I'd be willing to believe 500,000 or fewer individual people actually signed and that many signed multiple times.


----------



## Flabbergasted (Apr 29, 2016)

Lots of bigots in this world, as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread. I say shut it down. Lock the thread. Trans people don't deserve this kind of abuse. Have they not dealt with enough pain? I guess for KKKonservatives, the answer is no.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

maybe they have split personality disorder and they identify themselves as actually being multiple people.  it needs to be respected.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Flabbergasted said:


> Lots of bigots in this world, as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread. I say shut it down. Lock the thread. Trans people don't deserve this kind of abuse. Have they not dealt with enough pain? I guess for KKKonservatives, the answer is no.



i don't think that would be brand.  feedback is important and we need to have an open door policy that is all inclusive.  if somebody identifies as being in the kkk, that is their personal belief and needs to be respected.  you don't have to agree with it, but how dare somebody try to oppress a group of people like the kkk that is in the minority.  they are still people that have rights.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> maybe they have split personality disorder and they identify themselves as actually being multiple people.  it needs to be respected.


Or maybe their genes give them the anatomy of one gender but the psychology of the other?


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

i was talking about people who signed the petition more than one time...


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 29, 2016)

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Target brand perception falls, but it's not 'catastrophic'

Target brand perception falls, but it's not 'catastrophic'


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

i think i read a similar spin article about target canada failing, but it wasn't actually catastrophic, it was actually a win with a few areas rife with "opportunity"


----------



## squirrely (Apr 29, 2016)

My store did awesome in sales following the announcement, but has suffered big time this week. Lost all our flex hours


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)




----------



## KingBear (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i don't think that would be brand.  feedback is important and we need to have an open door policy that is all inclusive.  if somebody identifies as being in the kkk, that is their personal belief and needs to be respected.  you don't have to agree with it, but how dare somebody try to oppress a group of people like the kkk that is in the minority.  they are still people that have rights.


You know this website isn't actually handled by Target at all, right, sugar? 

Who am I kidding, you just said to respect the beliefs of KKK members. Kindly go screw.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

you need to respect that they believe that.  you don't have to actually respect the belief.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 29, 2016)

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have any right to make fun of it.
I'm not gay or a woman so there are many aspects of their lives I'll never truly appreciate or understand but I don't spend my time mocking them.
What I do have is empathy which means I can accept that someone doesn't identify with their birth sex because they tell they don't.
I don't need more than that and being an asshole about it never seemed like something a decent adult would do.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

commiecorvus said:


> Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have any right to make fun of it.
> I'm not gay or a woman so there are many aspects of their lives I'll never truly appreciate or understand but I don't spend my time mocking them.
> What I do have is empathy which means I can accept that someone doesn't identify with their birth sex because they tell they don't.
> I don't need more than that and being an asshole about it never seemed like something a decent adult would do.


I'm saying this for your own good. You're being mind controlled and you must resist. They're taking over!


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

i agree with that.  I guess my deal is that there should be tolerance instead of acceptance.  there needs to be a clear cut message that having body dysmorphia, psychological issues, or even past life karma that is being resolved in the current reincarnation in the wrong body is tolerated and you are given the same freedoms as anyone else.  but it doesn't need to be celebrated and encouraged.


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


>



He's an asshole


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

you mean his beliefs and self identity had no basis in reality and therefore shouldn't have to be honored?


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> you mean his beliefs and self identity had no basis in reality and therefore shouldn't have to be honored?


I really don't understand what point people think they are proving when they walk into a target to "protest" this. The woman who yelled at me must feel so much better because she took it out on a TM right? Trans people have every right to be respected and to be able to use the bathroom of the gender they are now. He is mocking that. Everyone is immediately jumping to rape and molestation being the next step. Trans people don't feel safe no matter the bathroom they use. All it takes is one bigot like you to jump them because "they don't belong." That is complete bullshit. The people who will abuse this have already done so. I believe there was a link posted of a man posing as a woman from bACK IN 2014! Criminals don't suddenly think the dress silhouette was a forcefield that is now lifted.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> you mean his beliefs and self identity had no basis in reality and therefore shouldn't have to be honored?



I think it's because he's not a Target employee.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

okay good....now apply that very same logic to.....


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

brizzy93 said:


> I really don't understand what point people think they are proving when they walk into a target to "protest" this. The woman who yelled at me must feel so much better because she took it out on a TM right? Trans people have every right to be respected and to be able to use the bathroom of the gender they are now. He is mocking that. Everyone is immediately jumping to rape and molestation being the next step. Trans people don't feel safe no matter the bathroom they use. All it takes is one bigot like you to jump them because "they don't belong." That is complete bullshit. The people who will abuse this have already done so. I believe there was a link posted of a man posing as a woman from bACK IN 2014! Criminals don't suddenly think the dress silhouette was a forcefield that is now lifted.



maybe i don't feel safe.  all it takes is one bigot hater like you to call me a bigot.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 29, 2016)

BigEyedPhish said:


> I think it's because he's not a Target employee.


I think it's because he's an asshole.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> okay good....now apply that very same logic to.....



Using a Jedi Mind Trick, because you self Identify as a Jedi Master.

The fact is, you are either a Target employee or you aren't. I have a dick, and am not transgender, nor have I ever been, so I have no clue what in the fuck that is even like.

It is something I cannot really fathom, therefore I'll take another person's first hand perspective on the issue, and at least try and have empathy.

I am in the ball park of just having one huge bathroom, where everyone gets their own room (actual single bathroom, rather than Stall).

I'd also like to point out how many times you, yourself, have probably shared a bathroom with a registered sex offender, and probably didn't know it, and if you wanted to know, you would have no way of finding out, why has this issue never been raised?

The one way of solving this problem is to turn the women's bathrooms into Single isolated rooms.

For the HUGE problem of women sneaking into the men's room to take a picture of all of our penis's I am at a loss, at this point all we can hope for is that she likes what she sees.


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> maybe i don't feel safe.  all it takes is one bigot hater like you to call me a bigot.


Frankly, I don't care if you don't feel safe. That doesn't give you the right to discriminate.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

brizzy93 said:


> Frankly, I don't care if you don't feel safe. That doesn't give you the right to discriminate.



isn't having seperate bathrooms for people to self identify with segregation and discrimination?


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> isn't having seperate bathrooms for people to self identify with segregation and discrimination?


It is when you start telling people which bathroom they can and can't use. Gendered bathrooms are all a social construct. Like pink is for girls, and blue for boys. Or how girls are always emotional, and men can't cry. And it is all bulllllshit.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> isn't having separate bathrooms for people to self identify with segregation and discrimination?


Who suggested separate restrooms?  The policy is that you may use the restroom with which you identify.  No discrimination or segregation there.  If you choose to go to a gender neutral restroom, thqat's on you.

Oh, I see. I misinterpreted your statement.  You believe that having male/female restrooms is segregation and discrimination?  Segregation, yes, because of social construct.  Discrimination, no.


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 29, 2016)

Now let's remember how black kids were told they couldn't go to the same schools as white kids. Or drink from the same fountains. That is segregation.


----------



## brizzy93 (Apr 29, 2016)

Society is progressing! Keep up or be left behind.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

See the state the economy in, soon the

food supply gonna be thin
Honestly men are out here tryna be women now when women wanna be men
Child molesting and prostitution, multiple drug use and water pollution
Educational system losing, watch the news, it's mass confusion


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> See the state the economy in, soon the
> 
> food supply gonna be thin
> Honestly men are out here tryna be women now when women wanna be men
> ...




I love this...

The sad part is with history in my rear-view mirror, we are probably living in the most peaceful time in the last 100 years.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

BigEyedPhish said:


> I love this...
> 
> The sad part is with history in my rear-view mirror, we are probably living in the most peaceful time in the last 100 years.



yeah but i do believe there is a war going on for the human mind.  this guy k rino talks a lot about it and the grand deception that satan is trying to pull.  part of it is to corrupt god's creation by blurring the lines between man and woman, and hollywood and entertainment has a big hand in the propaganda, and i see the bathroom issue at target as an extention of a much bigger and more important issue...


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

I've been getting a few guests and just people in general whom mention that our restrooms are "unisex." Where the fuck is that coming from? It's one thing to just not understand the situation....but if I correct you, and tell you, "Our bathrooms aren't unisex" and you still chose to think that they are because it's easier, then you're a fucking moron. 

I don't understand why people can't just say "I don't know" rather than invent an opinion out of thin air just for the sake of having an opinion.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I've been getting a few guests and just people in general whom mention that our restrooms are "unisex." Where the fuck is that coming from? It's one thing to just not understand the situation....but if I correct you, and tell you, "Our bathrooms aren't unisex" and you still chose to think that they are because it's easier, then you're a fucking moron.
> 
> I don't understand why people can't just say "I don't know" rather than invent an opinion out of thin air just for the sake of having an opinion.


Because the truth is boring.


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)




----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Dude, shut the fuck up and go watch some TV or something. You're being a fool. Not because of what you're saying, but because you're treating non serious replies as serious, and you're supporting the derailing of this thread.



Sorry to hijack the thread, but it seemed like it was taking a turn for the personal and needed a good hijacking so we could all feel like idiots _together._


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

RedMan said:


> Dude, and I'm a dudette, if you don't wish to read it, go watch TV or something.



I don't care about what goodies you keep in your pants. I care about the lack of discussion over Target's Bathroom Policy, which is the whole point of this thread. So unless you can somehow explain the worth of replying to OBVIOUS trollish comments rather than discuss the actual topic here, please, I'm all ears.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I don't care about what goodies you keep in your pants. I care about the lack of discussion over Target's Bathroom Policy, which is the whole point of this thread. So unless you can somehow explain the worth of replying to OBVIOUS trollish comments rather than discuss the actual topic here, please, I'm all ears.



The first thing everyone needs to realize, is that this will be a discussion that is never going to end. Whether somebody makes a good point or not, it is a topic that you will likely never change someones mind on.

As long as we all have feet a few of them are ALWAYS going to be stepped on.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> not everybody has feet!



Awe shit.


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

BigEyedPhish said:


> The first thing everyone needs to realize, is that this will be a discussion that is never going to end. Whether somebody makes a good point or not, it is a topic that you will likely never change someones mind on.
> 
> As long as we all have feet a few of them are ALWAYS going to be stepped on.



Probably not. But I have lots of questions I want to pose here over the matter, specifically scenarios I want to be prepared for when guests bring them up. Those topics are getting lost because they're less fun to talk about.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Probably not. But I have lots of questions I want to pose here over the matter, specifically scenarios I want to be prepared for when guests bring them up. Those topics are getting lost because they're less fun to talk about.



ask away and i will do my best to answer them from my point of view.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

@Target NPC What you should do first is hit the ignore button on @invictustaylor 

Then, ask your questions and everyone who isn't a troll will try their best to answer them.


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

Well, besides the "script" that Target has sort of given TMs to use when guests ask about the bathroom policy...how much can we get away with in discussing the issues with the guests? I can't even remember the script I was told. So when guests ask me about it, I just tell them my own wording and perception, as politely as I can. 

Also, what about cases where a guest tries to be an asshole about it? Like let's say a guy comes in saying he wants to use the women's restroom? What do we do in that case? I'm thinking, can I say, "If you identify as a women, then yes, of course, you're welcome to use the women's restroom, Ma'am." I'd also refer to him as ma'am if he decided to use the women's room. Is that appropriate? Basically calling their bluff?


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> @Target NPC What you should do first is hit the ignore button on @invictustaylor
> 
> Then, ask your questions and everyone who isn't a troll will try their best to answer them.



I actually don't mind his responses. I do mind the people whom are taking them far too seriously and then derailing the thread for PAGES trying to argue. I swear, people here are so fucking uptight, they're so easy to troll. I also don't believe in ignoring. I'm more proactive than that.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Well, besides the "script" that Target has sort of given TMs to use when guests ask about the bathroom policy...how much can we get away with in discussing the issues with the guests? I can't even remember the script I was told. So when guests ask me about it, I just tell them my own wording and perception, as politely as I can.
> 
> Also, what about cases where a guest tries to be an asshole about it? Like let's say a guy comes in saying he wants to use the women's restroom? *What do we do in that case? *I'm thinking, can I say, "If you identify as a women, then yes, of course, you're welcome to use the women's restroom, Ma'am." I'd also refer to him as ma'am if he decided to use the women's room. Is that appropriate? Basically calling their bluff?



You direct them to the GSTL, and they the LOD, and if need be, they, the Police. If you feel uncomfortable remember, it does not have to be your fight.


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

BigEyedPhish said:


> You direct them to the GSTL, and they the LOD, and if need be they, the Police.



I work at the service desk, I'd rather be more prepared to handle the situation myself. I'd only call a GSTL or LOD if it escalated. I mentioned earlier that a lot of these people think this policy means our restrooms are Unisex, which they aren't. So, I'm wondering is it okay to explain that to people.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I work at the service desk, I'd rather be more prepared to handle the situation myself. I'd only call a GSTL or LOD if it escalated. I mentioned earlier that a lot of these people think this policy means our restrooms are Unisex, which they aren't. *So, I'm wondering is it okay to explain that to people.*



I would imagine it would be, not doing so has potential to cause way more problems.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

Not to mention I am sure all stores are given a "script", however I am sure some stores are dealing with this differently. It would probably be best to ask your manager.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

Something some guests can't grasp is the fact that all bathrooms are unlocked, and any pervert can just open the door and creep on people. That was the case before Target's press release, that's the case now.


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

BigEyedPhish said:


> I would imagine it would be, not doing so has potential to cause way more problems.



True. I'm not entirely confident in my own knowledge of issue. So I'm trying to educate myself on this as well so I don't go on and just spread more misinformation. 

I had a guest ask me about the policy a few days ago. I had told her that we still have men's and women's restrooms. The policy simply allows people to use restrooms to their gender identity. That's correct...right?

Her response to that was, "Well then can't some guy just put on a dress and then go use the women's restroom?"

I told her, "Not if he is a male."

At that point her husband sort of just rushed her along and said "thank you" to me. I assume he didn't want to cause a scene.

So...was I even really correct in explaining what the policy means?


----------



## RedMan (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> I work at the service desk, I'd rather be more prepared to handle the situation myself. I'd only call a GSTL or LOD if it escalated. I mentioned earlier that a lot of these people think this policy means our restrooms are Unisex, which they aren't. So, I'm wondering is it okay to explain that to people.


Look at it the same as you would if a news reporter came in and started asking questions.  The FIRST thing you do is call the LOD.  We are not supposed to justify situations or answer questions that are so sensitive as this issue is.  Did your store have the breastfeeding issues?  Even with that, as simple as saying, yes, you can breastfeed where ever you are comfortable, we were instructed to call the LOD to answer any questions.

Of course, ASANTS, but it would make it easier for you to just call the LOD.


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

RedMan said:


> Look at it the same as you would if a news reporter came in and started asking questions.  The FIRST thing you do is call the LOD.  We are not supposed to justify situations or answer questions that are so sensitive as this issue is.  Did your store have the breastfeeding issues?  Even with that, as simple as saying, yes, you can breastfeed where ever you are comfortable, we were instructed to call the LOD to answer any questions.
> 
> Of course, ASANTS, but it would make it easier for you to just call the LOD.



Yeah, but there's saying what the policy is, and then there's discussing the nitty gritty of the policy. I'd like to be armed with enough knowledge that I don't have to call over someone to answer a very simple question. There's a difference if it's just a guest vs. someone from the media looking for official statements.

I don't remember any issues over breastfeeding in our stores. There was no controversy for us. So this is the second controversial situation I've dealt with while at Target. The first being the data breach.


----------



## BigEyedPhish (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Yeah, but there's saying what the policy is, and then there's discussing the nitty gritty of the policy. I'd like to be armed with enough knowledge that I don't have to call over someone to answer a very simple question. There's a difference if it's just a guest vs. someone from the media looking for official statements.
> 
> I don't remember any issues over breastfeeding in our stores. There was no controversy for us. So this is the second controversial situation I've dealt with while at Target. The first being the data breach.



I would suggest calling the LOD once, see how they handle it (and how it goes), and then deal with it the same way they did next time.


----------



## RedMan (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> Yeah, but there's saying what the policy is, and then there's discussing the nitty gritty of the policy. I'd like to be armed with enough knowledge that I don't have to call over someone to answer a very simple question. There's a difference if it's just a guest vs. someone from the media looking for official statements.
> 
> I don't remember any issues over breastfeeding in our stores. There was no controversy for us. So this is the second controversial situation I've dealt with while at Target. The first being the data breach.


I don't think there's any difference at all.  Some of these people are so dogmatic that they are going to try to *trick* you into saying something that you don't want to say.  Call the LOD.  This is absolutely nothing like the breach.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

Target NPC said:


> True. I'm not entirely confident in my own knowledge of issue. So I'm trying to educate myself on this as well so I don't go on and just spread more misinformation.
> 
> I had a guest ask me about the policy a few days ago. I had told her that we still have men's and women's restrooms. The policy simply allows people to use restrooms to their gender identity. That's correct...right?
> 
> ...



The answer is "not if the guest identifies as male."


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

I would like to congratulate @Target NPC for pulling this back on topic before I could lock it.


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

BigEyedPhish said:


> I would suggest calling the LOD once, see how they handle it (and how it goes), and then deal with it the same way they did next time.



Well, I mean, I'll ask my LOD about it and see how they feel. I really think each case is situational. I want to be able to handle the simple ones on my own. Most of the cases I've dealt with so far are more closer to small talk rather than serious concerns. I don't want to soap box to guests about my personal beliefs, but I DO intend on deescalating the situation to a point where they realize they've completely overreacted over the policy.


----------



## NPC (Apr 29, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> The answer is "not if the guest identifies as male.



That sounds better. If we get any smart ass guests taking it upon themselves to use the opposite restroom, I'll refer to them as that gender.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

Because we went back to serious conversation, I went through and cleaned up pages of some very bizarre conversation.


----------



## tgtguy (Apr 29, 2016)

I was walking through the store heading up front for lunch. I heard a guest saying well, that just makes no sense I mean what if ..a man comes in ....then I turned the corner and saw the guest had a new ( has been there less than a week) flow tm cornered. The poor guy looked like he was looking for the nearest and quickest way out of there. So, I went over the walkie and called the lod by name and had him to switch to 2. I then told him that he may need to go to aisle xxx cause I thought a guest had an issue . I wasn't going to leave the new tm to face it alone but I also wasn't going to stand there and argue with a guest.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 29, 2016)

Yeh, TMs don't get paid NEAR enough to deal with this crap.
When we had the red cup controversy at Starbucks I was asked my opinion of it.
I said that Target doesn't pay me to have an opinion, they pay me to make drinks.

Once I'm off the clock, however.........be careful what you ask.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> Something some guests can't grasp is the fact that all bathrooms are unlocked, and any pervert can just open the door and creep on people. That was the case before Target's press release, that's the case now.



i think the issue is there is now a legal precident that people can hide behind to go into the "wrong" restroom on purpose.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> i think the issue is there is now a legal precident that people can hide behind to go into the "wrong" restroom on purpose.


But that doesn't give them permission to do anything illegal when they are in there. Just like they couldn't do anything when they were in the "right" restroom.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> But that doesn't give them permission to do anything illegal when they are in there. Just like they couldn't do anything when they were in the "right" restroom.



true but it makes it that much easier for people that have bad intentions to carry out their plans.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> true but it makes it that much easier for people that have bad intentions to carry out their plans.


People could always do it in their own chosen restroom if they wanted to. Or they could slip in the other one when someone wasn't looking. And sometimes people just plain use the wrong restroom because they aren't paying any attention. The chances of being molested in a public restroom like Target are really minuscule when compared to the fact most molestations happen by someone the victim knows.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

men are stronger than women though...if men are allowed in girls bathrooms because that's how the self identify and they wish to carry out an assault, rape, molestation or kidnapping it would be much easier to do in the woman's bathroom to a woman's victim.

but then again there may be vigilante crossdressers or transgendered people in the woman's bathroom who can fight off the assailant.  so it may all come out in the wash.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 29, 2016)

So now along with everything else we need to do we are bathroom monitors. Good thinking corporate.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> men are stronger than women though...if men are allowed in girls bathrooms because that's how the self identify and they wish to carry out an assault, rape, molestation or kidnapping it would be much easier to do in the woman's bathroom to a woman's victim.
> 
> but then again there may be vigilante crossdressers or transgendered people in the woman's bathroom who can fight off the assailant.  so it may all come out in the wash.


But even before the Charlotte law was passed and all this Target stuff, nothing was stopping a man from barging into a women's restroom and doing something inappropriate. Sexual assault laws haven't changed.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

dannyy315 said:


> But even before the Charlotte law was passed and all this Target stuff, nothing was stopping a man from barging into a women's restroom and doing something inappropriate. Sexual assault laws haven't changed.



it could be that the fear of being called out or noticed prevented men from barging in.  but now there is no incentive not to.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

If they are worried about being caught, then they still have to worry about someone screaming or someone else walking in. So this really doesn't change that.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

If people are sick enough in the head like that, laws are usually not enough to stop you. Their impulses take over.


----------



## Redzee (Apr 29, 2016)

Fortress of solitude?


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

we need a president that will build really strong stalls around the bathroom to keep us all safe.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> we need a president that will build really strong stalls around the bathroom to keep us all safe.


Now I think that's something we can all agree on.


----------



## FixItMan (Apr 29, 2016)

Well, as I see it right now I think Spots little piece of paper on what to tell the guests was not sufficient enough to cover all the bases. It did not address the very real concerns of the female shoppers. I read it and was like really? That's what I've got to regurgitate to guests.  Whatever.  Also I do think the general public is thoroughly confused on transgenders and most people think they look like transvestites (you know, perverted men in drag) but it looks to me like a lot of transgendered individuals go out of their way to look like the gender they identify with. In fact, I'd wager that most people would not even be able to tell if there was a transgendered individual next to them in the bathroom. Besides, I've seen plenty of real women that looked like men at Wal-Mart and vice versa. I think this whole thing is much ado about nothing but I do wish HQ had not gone ahead and put this out front and center. I think we should of let some other companies take the lead on this and consequently take the brunt of this boycotting crap right now. I don't think Spot is gaining anything from this and before some of you start ranting about Target's doing the right thing for equality and other such social talking points, try to remember Target only exists to make money not engineer social change. Target's only responsibility is to us, the shareholders, and that responsibility is to stay profitable.


----------



## Brewhaha (Apr 29, 2016)

I havent given my opinion yet. Some of what I believe will be repeated. 

Everyone has the right to pee and poo in our bathrooms, that is a given. With this policy in place, I highly doubt there will be issues with straight men who identify as men dressing up as women to go in the women's restrooms and cause issues. They were able to due this before this policy and they can do it after this policy, no change. 

Those going with the AFA and want to "protect the woman and daughters", let me ask you this: Can you give us some hardcore 100% identifiable facts that transgender (in any stage) will assault woman & young girls at a greater rate than the "normal" females and males? Also, can you give me some more facts that show what type of person sexually assaults woman, young girls and young boys for that matter? Boys can get sexually assaulted too.

On to my store, not one person in management has mentioned this policy to us team members. I found out about it through  this thread. What is the official policy on how to deal with this if a guest confronts you and wants you to make a comment?


----------



## oath2order (Apr 29, 2016)

Still tho. Probably already posted but bears repeating

Conservative logic on guns: "Gun laws do nothing because the criminals will get the guns anyways!"

Conservative logic on trans rights: "These laws that say only men can go in the men's room means that perverts will follow that law and not go in the women's room!"


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Still tho. Probably already posted but bears repeating
> 
> Conservative logic on guns: "Gun laws do nothing because the criminals will get the guns anyways!"
> 
> Conservative logic on trans rights: "These laws that say only men can go in the men's room means that perverts will follow that law and not go in the women's room!"



try getting a gun in a courthouse or airplane after being patted down and sent through a metal detector.....


----------



## Flabbergasted (Apr 29, 2016)

There was an incident just the other day, though I forgot where at, where a lesbian woman who was not trans but appeared masculine (butch) was harassed by a police officer for being in the WOMEN'S restroom. Now if she had been a trans man, isn't that what conservatives want? For them to use the restroom of the gender they were born as? So now if you look like a man but are actually a woman and vice versa you can't use either bathroom. Trans people literally can't go to any public restrooms now.

If President Donald "Adolf" Trumpler becomes a reality, all of those civil rights the LGBT community has so hardly fought for will be pushed back. We will immediately revert to the 1800s in this country. I know I said I wouldn't move to Canada if it happened but the idea's looking better and better the more this kind of shit is allowed to happen.


----------



## FixItMan (Apr 29, 2016)

Brewhaha said:


> On to my store, not one person in management has mentioned this policy to us team members. I found out about it through  this thread. What is the official policy on how to deal with this if a guest confronts you and wants you to make a comment?



Yeah, same at my store. No announcements that I've heard just overheard someone talking about the ETL HR getting chewed out by some guy over the whole thing. Oh, and the Flow TL saying they were getting tired 
of guests ranting to them.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Flabbergasted said:


> There was an incident just the other day, though I forgot where at, where a lesbian woman who was not trans but appeared masculine (butch) was harassed by a police officer for being in the WOMEN'S restroom. Now if she had been a trans man, isn't that what conservatives want? For them to use the restroom of the gender they were born as? So now if you look like a man but are actually a woman and vice versa you can't use either bathroom. Trans people literally can't go to any public restrooms now.
> 
> If President Donald "Adolf" Trumpler becomes a reality, all of those civil rights the LGBT community has so hardly fought for will be pushed back. We will immediately revert to the 1800s in this country. I know I said I wouldn't move to Canada if it happened but the idea's looking better and better the more this kind of shit is allowed to happen.



let me know if you need help packing come november.


----------



## Txcpht (Apr 29, 2016)

We had several families transfer scripts out on Wednesday and they said it was due to our bathroom policy. They transferred to a new Neighborhood Walmart that opened. I was shocked because I didn't realize that those families were so bigoted. The funny this is I'm sure Walmart has the same policy, they just weren't bold enough to make it public. I say good riddance to those people. We don't need them at our pharmacy!


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

Luckily I haven't had any guests ask me about the policy yet.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Txcpht said:


> We had several families transfer scripts out on Wednesday and they said it was due to our bathroom policy. They transferred to a new Neighborhood Walmart that opened. I was shocked because I didn't realize that those families were so bigoted. The funny this is I'm sure Walmart has the same policy, they just weren't bold enough to make it public. I say good riddance to those people. We don't need them at our pharmacy!



those darn families wanting to make sure their kids are safe.  so bigot much wow.


----------



## Txcpht (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> those darn families wanting to make sure their kids are safe.  so bigot much wow.


Wow I'm not really sure how their children are being made unsafe. Transgendered does not equal pedophile, but I'm pretty certain that you know that and are just being a troll.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

maybe the majority thinks that there is something wrong with transgendered people and doesn't want their kids around them in bathrooms?


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> those darn families wanting to make sure their kids are safe.  so bigot much wow.


Statistically, their kids are more likely to be hurt by a known friend or family member than in a public restroom. That and I'm pretty certain Walmart has the same policy Target does. Target's policy hasn't changed...neither has any other retailer's.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Sign the Boycott Target Pledge!

1 million 65 thousand and counting...


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> maybe the majority thinks that there is something wrong with transgendered people and doesn't want their kids around them in bathrooms?


What's the difference between being around them in the bathroom and being around them in the rest of the world? I've been to the bathroom plenty of time with a transgender friend. We go in, we pee, we wash our hands, we maybe continue a conversation we were having and we leave.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> What's the difference between being around them in the bathroom and being around them in the rest of the world? I've been to the bathroom plenty of time with a transgender friend. We go in, we pee, we wash our hands, we maybe continue a conversation we were having and we leave.



maybe there is no difference.  but families might feel that target might become a cesspool of transgendered people now and don't want to be around it nor have their family around it.


----------



## Retail Girl (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> maybe there is no difference.  but families might feel that target might become a cesspool of transgendered people now and don't want to be around it nor have their family around it.


But they are around it every day just by going into public. And frankly, this uproar has made people nutty, I know transgendered people who won't go anywhere near Target right now.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Retail Girl said:


> But they are around it every day just by going into public. And frankly, this uproar has made people nutty, I know transgendered people who won't go anywhere near Target right now.



maybe this was the last straw for some people.  i know from working at target that we had gay etl's and gay team members that had mental problems and would pick cat fights with workers or make fun of them and then somebody would say something back and it was this huge deal.  i remember several huddles where the etl in question had to specifically address how things being said about him were not okay but then he would turn around and antagonize or alienate people with his behavior.  i can tell you from memory that it was not a positive thing for anybody working there.


----------



## dannyy315 (Apr 29, 2016)

I'm still waiting for a third bathroom or public bathroom ban for registered sex offenders.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 29, 2016)

The thing is that this is all a knee-jerk reaction with all sorts of 'hypothetical' situations about how 'some guy' (never a woman, of course) could dress up like a woman or claim he 'identifies' as a woman to gain access to the women's restroom to commit 'nefarious acts' (the image I conjure is jacking change out of the tampon machine).

Yet, when there's a mass shooting & people demand stricter gun laws, the pro-gun lobby & others shout them down for THEIR knee-jerk reaction despite reading stories EVERY DAY about kids getting shot playing with a parent's gun, two different moms being shot by their own kids from the back seat (one mom died), school shootings where kids got their hands on guns, disgruntled exes going on rampages....and the list goes on. 

Why doesn't AFA start a petition for that?


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

the "mass shootings" are usually psyops or false flags in order to warm people up to gun control.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 29, 2016)

Thanks for removing all doubt.


----------



## oath2order (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> try getting a gun in a courthouse or airplane after being patted down and sent through a metal detector.....



Criminals do not follow laws, they will go around them you dingus


----------



## quillshot (Apr 29, 2016)

So when some of the transgender females who look almost completely like men return to the womens bathroom, is everyone going to feel comfortable then?


----------



## oath2order (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> the "mass shootings" are usually psyops or false flags in order to warm people up to gun control.



Yet somehow these false flags never seem to work and we never get massive gun control. Weird.


----------



## redeye58 (Apr 29, 2016)

quillshot said:


> So when some of the transgender females who look almost completely like men return to the womens bathroom, is everyone going to feel comfortable then?



Or will they feel 'safer'?


----------



## quillshot (Apr 29, 2016)

redeye58 said:


> Or will they feel 'safer'?



They feel safe enough going to their catholic churches where there's actual statistics on kids being sexually assaulted. 

But we can't let them break internet law by having double standards now...


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Yet somehow these false flags never seem to work and we never get massive gun control. Weird.


 ask the uk about that....


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Criminals do not follow laws, they will go around them you dingus



they will follow whatever rules they don't think they can break and they will proceed with caution on the one's they think they can break for fear of getting caught.


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

quillshot said:


> They feel safe enough going to their catholic churches where there's actual statistics on kids being sexually assaulted.
> 
> But we can't let them break internet law by having double standards now...



molesters were pigeonholed into priest jobs because they felt safe because people wouldn't question why they didn't marry or have girlfriends.

just like they will flock to target bathrooms where noone questions why they are in the wrong bathroom


----------



## oath2order (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> ask the uk about that....



I'm sorry, I wasn't aware we were talking about gun issues in the UK. I assumed, given that Target is an *American* corporation, that these trans laws are passing in *America*, that we were talking about gun issues in *America*.

I guess not. Silly me!


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

oath2order said:


> I'm sorry, I wasn't aware we were talking about gun issues in the UK. I assumed, given that Target is an *American* corporation, that these trans laws are passing in *America*, that we were talking about gun issues in *America*.
> 
> I guess not. Silly me!



how dare you just assume everyone is american.


----------



## Firefox (Apr 29, 2016)

invictustaylor said:


> how dare you just assume everyone is american.



Okay, now I'm just convinced that you are just trolling or are at least trying to incite controversy. 

So unless @Target NPC  or someone can get this back on track, I think the thread should be locked. Even though I said several pages back that it should remain open, it's devolved into bigotry and paranoid threats to the "family unit".


----------



## invictustaylor (Apr 29, 2016)

Firefox said:


> Okay, now I'm just convinced that you are just trolling or are at least trying to incite controversy.
> 
> So unless @Target NPC  or someone can get this back on track, I think the thread should be locked. Even though I said several pages back that it should remain open, it's devolved into bigotry and paranoid threats to the "family unit".



she was being retarded.  of course target is only in america but uk had false flag gun attacks and i said ask them how that worked out for them they got their guns taken away and then she made some dumb comment about only america.


----------



## commiecorvus (Apr 29, 2016)

[warning=WTF!] WHY IS IT THAT GROWNUPS CAN'T HAVE AN INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION AROUND HERE WITHOUT TROLLS COMING IN AND TURNING THINGS TO DRECK? 
SO OF COURSE I HAVE TO SHUT IT DOWN BECAUSE A FEW PEOPLE CAN'T ACT LIKE REASONABLE HUMAN BEINGS!
 [/warning]


----------

