# Do I have any say in the next TL promotion?



## ohcomeon (Mar 16, 2022)

I'm a GM Team Leader who was promoted back in September. Before my promotion, I would occasionally butt heads with another GM Team Member whom we'll just refer to as "Jim". Even before I began my leadership development, I would try to take charge and establish myself as a leader whom other TM's could come to if official TL's weren't around and Jim took exception to that. He didn't like TM's who would act like TL's and me and him would occasionally go at each other's throats over this issue. But at the end of the day, I won that battle once I was promoted to a TL.

Jim has been in development for the past couple of months and I honestly think that he's on the verge of being promoted. Our store is still on promotion freeze until reviews and head counts are finalized, but we have both a GMTL role open along with a Front End TL role that's recently been vacated. My SD definitely wants them filled once the freeze is over and Jim is the only GM member at our store who's actively being developed for leadership. Simply put, I don't want him to be a TL. He's been helpful and friendly to other TM's and I'll admit to him being a hard worker who applies himself and is a very reliable body on the floor, but he's rude and disrespectful to me. Whenever I get with him for his plan for the day, he doesn't make eye contact with me and whenever I'm done talking with him, he doesn't even say anything to acknowledge what I said. He just silently walks away without a word. And in the few times that he talks to me, he talks in this dull, monotone voice, as opposed to a more bright and chipper tone he takes with everyone else.

I've talked with my GM ETL about this and she said that she sees a lot of potential for him as a leader. She brought up the fact that a lot of other TM's respect him and that his metrics in his areas have been very impressive. She brought up him having the best pick time in the whole store for OPU and she also mentioned his consistent metrics in terms of sales and one-for-one's being done everyday. I tried to tell her that he doesn't deserve to be a leader and that I can't work with him with how he is, but then she got all stern with me. She strictly said "I'm the ETL and I know what I'm doing" in a tone that was clearly suppose to end the conversation.

I have half a mind to try to take this up with the SD, but I'm also wondering why I don't have any say in this. I know that I'm still relatively new as a leader and there's still plenty for me to learn, but I would like to think that I have some say in the new GMTL who's going to be working with me. Do I have no say in the role being filled? Is this purely an ETL decision?


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## Far from newbie (Mar 16, 2022)

15 years as a TL - have NEVER been asked my opinion of developing any tm.

In my experience:
1. ETL gives input to HR. 
2. SD makes final decision.

How YOU personally “get-along” with someone is a mute point.  Now, if you had some concrete evidence of misconduct - THAT would be something to share and have them consider.  A personality clash ?  Ah, no.  Suck it up and play nice.

You could hope he gets a Fulfillment TL or SETL position - you would have very little contact with him.


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## MrT (Mar 16, 2022)

No you do not.  Learn to get along.


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## ohcomeon (Mar 16, 2022)

MrT said:


> No you do not.  Learn to get along.


So that's it then? He gives me attitude and gets rewarded for it with a promotion?


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## ohcomeon (Mar 16, 2022)

Far from newbie said:


> 15 years as a TL - have NEVER been asked my opinion of developing any tm.
> 
> In my experience:
> 1. ETL gives input to HR.
> ...


What exactly would qualify as misconduct?


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## Far from newbie (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> So that's it then? He gives me attitude and gets rewarded for it with a promotion?


C’mon, DON’T twist this !    He is NOT getting rewarded FOR giving you attitude !
Stop making all life situations ‘about you‘ .
‘it is possible he was recognized for CHALLENGING you ?
There was a time when it was a positive thing to ‘challenge up’, go out of your comfort zone, be bold.
his ‘attitude’ might be seen as a ‘passion’.

RESULTS are key - the ETL told you his metrics are good, his work ethic is good, and he seems to act with authority if he can battle with you.

Congratulate him, mentor him, work with him….maybe you can be friends, if not, that’s a shame but at the end of the day 
it should be about business Needs, not about ‘who you like’.


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## Far from newbie (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> What exactly would qualify as misconduct?


Theft, time clock fraud, loafing, harassment.  DO NOT go looking for something - it could backfire on YOU.  Sometimes it is ‘the messenger that gets shot’ !


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## ohcomeon (Mar 16, 2022)

Far from newbie said:


> Theft, time clock fraud, loafing, harassment.  DO NOT go looking for something - it could backfire on YOU.  Sometimes it is ‘the messenger that gets shot’ !


What about conflicts of interest with other TM's? I know for a fact that he actively parties and hangs out with other TM's from around the store. My SD has definitely tried to crack down on TL's and their subordinates hanging out with each other outside of work because of the potential for conflict of interest, but what about TM's in development for leadership? If he continues to hang out with other GM team members, then isn't he creating potential conflicts of interest for if he becomes a leader and has to start acting like their boss?


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## MrT (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> So that's it then? He gives me attitude and gets rewarded for it with a promotion?


If your threatened by a person that challenges you and works hard that's on you maybe you shouldn't of been a tl.  You dont have to like everyone you work with but ill take a hard worker over a lazy person any day.


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## Far from newbie (Mar 16, 2022)

FYI :
Going to your SD with this WILL make YOU look worse than it makes HIM look.  Especially since your ETL has  already shut you down.  Drop it.  You are not PART of the decision.  You will just have to learn how you can deal with it.  Look at the bright side:  he is not being promoted to be your boss …… yet.


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## MrT (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> What about conflicts of interest with other TM's? I know for a fact that he actively parties and hangs out with other TM's from around the store. My SD has definitely tried to crack down on TL's and their subordinates hanging out with each other outside of work because of the potential for conflict of interest, but what about TM's in development for leadership? If he continues to hang out with other GM team members, then isn't he creating potential conflicts of interest for if he becomes a leader and has to start acting like their boss?


Not really a problem unless he continues to do so after the fact.  It is an issue many deal with when moving up in the same store.


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## Far from newbie (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> What about conflicts of interest with other TM's? I know for a fact that he actively parties and hangs out with other TM's from around the store. My SD has definitely tried to crack down on TL's and their subordinates hanging out with each other outside of work because of the potential for conflict of interest, but what about TM's in development for leadership? If he continues to hang out with other GM team members, then isn't he creating potential conflicts of interest for if he becomes a leader and has to start acting like their boss?


That WILL be taken into consideration - you do not have to highlight that for anyone.  Usually if a tm has many ‘friends’ in a dept, if they are made TL it is not in that dept.  It is unlikely that he will have ‘friends’ as direct reports.  A TL does need to get along with the individuals on their team but being in a relationship or having close friendships is frowned upon because it makes it difficult to coach, be unbiased and sometimes stay professional.  But leave that worry to your ETL/SD to monitor if he is being fair with friends — there are people that can separate the two worlds And still do what is needed for the business - you haven’t given him a chance to show that he will be fair.

I had friends as a cashier before i became a GSTL - it was harder on me than it was for anyone else.  I KNEW it was my JOB to coach - and I did when necessary - even to those that called me their friend.  I explained it to them that I cared, and wanted them to improve so that we could continue to work together.  I would have been the one to suffer if I LET them slack - they understood that.


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## ohcomeon (Mar 16, 2022)

MrT said:


> Not really a problem unless he continues to do so after the fact.  It is an issue many deal with when moving up in the same store.


Going back to what you said about him "challenging" me and being "passionate". He's not being challenging or passionate. He's just coming across to me as stoic and emotionless. That can't be a good quality for someone who's looking to lead a team, can it?


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## allnew2 (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> So that's it then? He gives me attitude and gets rewarded for it with a promotion?


I think you power trip . First off all this animosity started with you being his peer while you wanted him to treat you as his leader which you weren’t . So the fact that he has you beat in metrics only shows your weakness as him getting promoted .


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## allnew2 (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> What about conflicts of interest with other TM's? I know for a fact that he actively parties and hangs out with other TM's from around the store. My SD has definitely tried to crack down on TL's and their subordinates hanging out with each other outside of work because of the potential for conflict of interest, but what about TM's in development for leadership? If he continues to hang out with other GM team members, then isn't he creating potential conflicts of interest for if he becomes a leader and has to start acting like their boss?


You sound very bitter that someone is going to take your light my friend . If I was you I would love a challenge to show I’m better 😂


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## ohcomeon (Mar 16, 2022)

allnew2 said:


> You sound very bitter that someone is going to take your light my friend . If I was you I would love a challenge to show I’m better 😂


But he's not being challenging in the sense that he's helping either of us grow as a leader and improving the work place. He's just coming off as stoic and emotionless whenever I speak to him. It's like talking to Mike Ehrmantraut from Breaking Bad.


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## seasonaldude (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> Going back to what you said about him "challenging" me and being "passionate". He's not being challenging or passionate. He's just coming across to me as stoic and emotionless. That can't be a good quality for someone who's looking to lead a team, can it?



To be real honest here, maybe he thinks you are a shit TL unworthy of his respect? That might be on you more than it's on him. I don't know. Look in the mirror and decide for yourself.

Personally, I have a shit TL unworthy of respect. I am very stoic and unemotionless when talking to him because I don't give a shit what he has to say. I am, however, on good terms with every other lead in the building.

And, I know my ETL thinks my TL is shit so I'm not exactly expected to follow the TL's directions by the person who decides my hours (I get scheduled for 40+ every week.)

What I'm saying is look in the mirror if a TM is blatantly allowed to ignore you and treat you with diesrespect, especially if your ETL is uninterested in hearing your side of it. You might need to change wht you're doing.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> Going back to what you said about him "challenging" me and being "passionate". He's not being challenging or passionate. He's just coming across to me as stoic and emotionless. That can't be a good quality for someone who's looking to lead a team, can it?


He may just not be able to deal with people he doesn’t like or respect (some people don’t have it in them to be phony), he may be using every ounce of self-control that he possesses not to tell you off, or he may have been told to be on his best behavior when dealing with you. With the ETL so firmly entrenched in his corner, I doubt that you will have any say in his promotion. In my experience, TLs have very little say regarding much of anything anyway.
If the ETL and SD have two open positions, know what they are doing, and don’t want to cause headaches for themselves later, they won’t put the two of you in the same area. 
Incidentally, not every ETL who says “I’m the ETL and I know what I’m doing” actually _does _know what they doing, and yours sounds like she could benefit from a little training in dealing with subordinates in a professional manner. A leader telling a subordinate “I know what I’m doing” is in the same class as the guy telling everyone how smart he is. Take it with a grain of salt.


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## ohcomeon (Mar 16, 2022)

Black Sheep 214 said:


> If the ETL and SD have two open positions, know what they are doing, and don’t want to cause headaches for themselves later, they won’t put the two of you in the same area.


My SD has always preferred to keep promotions within the same department. She just views it as less of a hassle in terms of training. And on top of that, Jim's development has been squarely in the confines of GM and we already have a front end TM being prepped for the front end role.


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## allnew2 (Mar 16, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> But he's not being challenging in the sense that he's helping either of us grow as a leader and improving the work place. He's just coming off as stoic and emotionless whenever I speak to him. It's like talking to Mike Ehrmantraut from Breaking Bad.


You should have seen me as a Tl telling an etl how he sucks and how surprised I was he wasn’t fired yet . I was a very vocal Tl and still got promoted because I knew my shit . Jim knows his better than you clearly and doesn’t like you and most likely never will . So if Jim is up for promotion try to play nice because everyone above your pay grade already know Jim is good for it .


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## Hardlinesmaster (Mar 17, 2022)

Welcome. 
You have no say on Jim. You need to let it go. You need to worry about your own stuff.
Coming here(internet) proves it.


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## happygoth (Mar 17, 2022)

Nice try @CartoonPenguin


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## Priceslasher (Apr 5, 2022)

ohcomeon said:


> What about conflicts of interest with other TM's? I know for a fact that he actively parties and hangs out with other TM's from around the store. My SD has definitely tried to crack down on TL's and their subordinates hanging out with each other outside of work because of the potential for conflict of interest, but what about TM's in development for leadership? If he continues to hang out with other GM team members, then isn't he creating potential conflicts of interest for if he becomes a leader and has to start acting like their boss?


My opinion this is a “You” problem. Not a Jim problem. Get confident in you or move on.


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## SilentCrow (Apr 10, 2022)

Simply pulling “Jim” to the side acknowledging the past friction and saying you want to move beyond that and showing “Jim” respect for his work and relationship with the team and ending with “I look forward to us working together as leaders. I know there is a lot we can learn from each other and I hope any past issues we might’ve had doesn’t hinder our partnership going forward “ would most likely be the best way to go about this.

Trying to hold back a promotion because you don’t personally like someone is narcissistic. Also hate to break it to you, you have no say on a promotion.


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## Tacopie (Apr 10, 2022)

Careful. They might solve the problem by getting rid of you.


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