# Performance out



## PogDog (Mar 18, 2021)

I have to ask the hard question knowing that I'm severely lacking in this area. 

I don't know how to properly performance out a team member. 

I don't think any leads at my store are trained well either. We have a lot of team members that are pulling us down. And keeping them on because we don't know how to properly remove them is hurting us. 

Can someone, explain the process so that it's professional and consistent?

I want to share this with my leadership team so we can better address the weak players and maybe get them up to snuff or get them outta way.


----------



## BackupTL (Mar 18, 2021)

If you have a TM that's consistently not making performance goals, you need to document it in Workday. Essentially, most performance issues require 3 documented performance conversations before moving on to a corrective action (CCA). You need 3 CCAs of the same type for most things for a termination.

In the case of seasonal or probational TMs, anything warranting a single CCA is usually enough to term.

When writing the performance conversations, the important thing is to be thorough and to be professional and unemotional in your writing. Use facts and metrics; use expectations vs. what was accomplished. Follow the guide that's given on the top of the Workday page. It usually goes as follows: Behavior, impact, TM response, next steps.

_"[TM], on [date], you failed to perform by doing [behavior/action]. 

This impacts the store by [lowering X metric, lowering guest satisfaction, causing use of additional payroll, loss of sales, etc.] (this always varies depending on the performance issue, ex. Slow UPH in OPU causes orders to back up and orders are late, resulting in lower guest satisfaction). 

You said [TM response here]. (Usually I will add rebuttal to their response if I had any during the conversation, or any other comments here as well.)

Going forward/In the future/etc., ensure you do not perform [performance issue at hand]. Failure to do so could result in additional performance conversations, including corrective actions [or termination]."_

Corrective is much longer and more thorough, and usually refers back to each written performance conversation that is relevant to the CCA. You usually need dates and such for each, but if you wrote your convos well that should be easy. This is then sent to your HRTL/ETL-HR for HR approval, and can be sent back to you if it needs changes. I'd recommend partnering with them before starting a CCA though so they're aware the process is beginning.

Essentially, performance issues are a 3 CCA then term thing, which sucks. It's effectively 9 full performance conversations and 3 approved CCAs.

Lastly, look up resources on the HR SharePoint. There is a performance conversations page, correctives page, examples PDFs, etc. Incredibly helpful. I had to get familiar as we were out an SD for a year and had a new HR. Some pages are role restricted, so ETL or HR may only be able to read certain documents.


----------



## Yetive (Mar 18, 2021)

First of all, go into this assuming that the person wants/is able to improve.  It does happen.

Gather Job Description, routines, attendance (if applicable), any metric reports that apply.

The first step is to level set expectations. This should be a closed door convo that takes more than 60 seconds.  I know it is hard to take the time, but this first step is essential and will save time in the long run.  Document this in Workday as a level setting convo.  This will be somewhat different depending on department.  This is also where you can find out if they have knowledge gaps or scheduling problems, etc. . . .

After that, it is all about follow up. If you have partner TLs, help each other out on your respective days off.  So, if your tm is observed not greeting guests, you follow up with them.  "Do you remember last week when we talked about the expectation being that we greet every guest?  What is preventing you from doing that?" If they have a legit reason, remove the roadblock.  If not, reiterate the expectation. Or, if they can't present their business to you on daily check-in, or sfs metrics are not green, etc, follow the same format.

When you document, use the good old SBIe model.  It's fine if you write out the words as headers. Be clear that you had set the expectation, and the team member did not meet it.  I would have HR look at the first one just to make sure it passes muster.

You can have weekly meetings with team members who are really not cutting it. 3 convos CA, 3 more convos Final. At this point, I would just level with them that they are about to lose their job. 

Some things are pretty cut and dried--attendance, long breaks, not greeting--and you can resolve them quickly.  The TM fixes the problem or he doesn't, will vs skill. Matters of performance can be more difficult around not meeting metrics.  Are there reasons the person cannot meet the expectation?  Could he thrive elsewhere?  TBH, it is usually a matter of talking to other team members or not asking (SRP, Circle), but not always.


----------



## happygoth (Mar 18, 2021)

Yetive said:


> First of all, go into this assuming that the person wants/is able to improve.  It does happen.
> 
> Gather Job Description, routines, attendance (if applicable), any metric reports that apply.
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity,  are there stores that really care about greeting and would actually write up a TM for not doing so? Because I'm like 99.9% sure there's very little greeting going on at my store and no write ups happening.


----------



## Xanatos (Mar 18, 2021)

happygoth said:


> Just out of curiosity,  are there stores that really care about greeting and would actually write up a TM for not doing so? Because I'm like 99.9% sure there's very little greeting going on at my store and no write ups happening.


Yep. My SD has been taking it very seriously.


----------



## Yetive (Mar 18, 2021)

happygoth said:


> Just out of curiosity,  are there stores that really care about greeting and would actually write up a TM for not doing so? Because I'm like 99.9% sure there's very little greeting going on at my store and no write ups happening.


Top of the list in my district.  (also a pretty easy example to use for my purposes).


----------



## sunnydays (Mar 18, 2021)

happygoth said:


> Just out of curiosity,  are there stores that really care about greeting and would actually write up a TM for not doing so? Because I'm like 99.9% sure there's very little greeting going on at my store and no write ups happening.


i have had like six documented performance convos with tms about this in the past 2 weeks


----------



## happygoth (Mar 19, 2021)

Oh damn. Guess I need to stop complaining about my store.


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Mar 19, 2021)

happygoth said:


> Oh damn. Guess I need to stop complaining about my store.


Didn't you take the GUEST training in workday?


----------



## happygoth (Mar 19, 2021)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Didn't you take the GUEST training in workday?


I did. If we are talking Front End, then yes, they definitely greet almost every guest that walks in, but as for the salesfloor...I mean, if a guest has a question I try to help, of course, but in Style we aren't going out of our way to say hi to everyone.


----------



## PogDog (Mar 19, 2021)

Appreciate the thorough responses everyone.

We're in dire need of quality HR guidance at my store. My SD loves to say how we never have any performance conversations with our team members, when it comes time to let them go. But, they're not very helpful with showing us how to performance a team members. So, it feels very passive aggressive.

I'm lucky to have a team of quality players under my guidance; so my needs are limited as far as giving out performance conversations. It doesn't hurt to know how though and I've had TMs in the past that I wish I could have motivated better with these types of conversations. Where we're hurting most is in our Inbound team. It's suffering from lackadaisical performers and the lead over that area is similarly under trained as far as HR-related conversations. So, if I can find out where this information is, I can pass it on to them. And then maybe we'll start to see improvement within that area.


----------



## Planosss enraged (Mar 19, 2021)

PogDog said:


> Appreciate the thorough responses everyone.
> 
> We're in dire need of quality HR guidance at my store. My SD loves to say how we never have any performance conversations with our team members, when it comes time to let them go. But, they're not very helpful with showing us how to performance a team members. So, it feels very passive aggressive.
> 
> I'm lucky to have a team of quality players under my guidance; so my needs are limited as far as giving out performance conversations. It doesn't hurt to know how though and I've had TMs in the past that I wish I could have motivated better with these types of conversations. Where we're hurting most is in our Inbound team. It's suffering from lackadaisical performers and the lead over that area is similarly under trained as far as HR-related conversations. So, if I can find out where this information is, I can pass it on to them. And then maybe we'll start to see improvement within that area.


That’s a good boy.


----------



## 60SecondsRemaining (Mar 19, 2021)

PogDog said:


> I have to ask the hard question knowing that I'm severely lacking in this area.
> 
> I don't know how to properly performance out a team member.
> 
> ...


 
A word of advice, don't use the term "performance out".  

If people have performance issues the goal should be to bring them to up to par, not get rid of them.  Turnover (while necessary, and I am the biggest advocate of accountability) is costly and unproductive, something a lot of Target salaried leadership has a hard time understanding.

Frame the conversation from a place of "Hey, I noticed you're struggling with this thing.  Let's talk about it and see if I can help you improve" instead of "Your performance is not adequate".  The former puts the person in the mindset of "I want to get better and PogDog wants to help me" as opposed to "I need to improve or I will be fired".  Fear is a good motivator but it's unsustainable.  You will see slower team growth with the first method, but better long term results.  Document these conversations, and eventually, if the person doesn't improve, shitcanning them is a lot easier.  Because you're not the bad guy, you're the guy who tried to help them succeed.

That being said some people just have poor ethic, or don't care.  In those cases after method one fails, it's time to have an earnest conversation with them about their prospects, at which point they'll likely quit and save you the trouble.


----------



## StyleStar (Mar 19, 2021)

In my store the team members we are holding accountable we make sure to have conversations weekly. This ensures we are being consistent and if/when the time comes for termination have all our ducks in a row. That being said if your leadership team hasnt been having performance conversations, some team members might not even realize they are underperforming. I suggest each department comes up with daily routines for 2021. 
Example
-collect reshop and walk department
-pull 1 for 1 then push mancaf and reshop
-push truck and zone
-audit outs
-backstock
-price changes
-sales planners
I would also put together expectations 
Ex. Push a box a minute -INF goal- UPH goal Fill to need % whatever metric pertsins to workcenter.

During reviews I would level set with the entire team to ensure all leaders and tm are on the same page. As your store starts to hold team members accountable please make sure you are fair and consistent.


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Mar 19, 2021)

Communication of tasks done  are important too to tl or lod. It builds trust.
Please teach your tm’s this.


----------



## Frontlanegirl (Mar 19, 2021)

These are great suggestions and I wish several of our TL’s and ETL’s would do this. Often team members are not aware their performance is not up to par. Target culture spends too much time pointing out the negatives without helping them improve. Positive reinforcement is also a great motivator.


----------



## allnew2 (Mar 19, 2021)

StyleStar said:


> Example
> -collect reshop and walk department
> -pull 1 for 1 then push mancaf and reshop
> -push truck and zone
> ...


Reshop , zone , item fill 
Pull , push and backstock 141 , 
Truck and audit
Would be a better way to be more accurate


----------



## PogDog (Mar 20, 2021)

A lot of you are posting the 5 routines, which rolled out with the DBO process. I've been an advocate of these routines since they rolled out. They're tangible habits that can be used to hold someone accountable. Along with a set DBO in the area, which helps when things go south. You can easily identify that the issue is between the team member and their workload (we all know that trucks are far from consistent and one truck might have 200+ items for a business owner one day and 30 the next) or a lack of training to complete the routines necessary.

Our store fell off the DBO routine process when the pandemic hit. I think a lot of stores in our area did. We fell back to old systems (FLOW) to get the workload done. Now, we're in a weird between state… trying to reinstate DBOs, but also relying on Inbound to handle most of the PP1 push. I don't like this situation. It is exposing Inbound team members are not able to sustain this workload (they're sloppy and honestly at this point, they just don't care if it gets done or not). So, we're stuck using team members that are expected to do a large portion of the work, but aren't being held accountable for it (or anything else). So, when they check out, that lack of completely the work daily creates ripples of extra work that carry over to the next truck and the cycle continues.

I think better habits of holding the team accountable to either help them improve (or pressure them out) is definitely needed. We also need to fill those missing DBO spots and get back to routines. I'd rather support and empower team members that want to improve and do the work. It's hard to do that with team members that are constantly asked to stay to just get the workload done, in areas that they don't give two shits about, none less.


----------



## BullseyeBabe (Mar 22, 2021)

What about the FOS? We document all conversations under  performance improvement plans. These include attendance. Should we be lumping everything performance related under PIP? This is especially hard now, when we’ve cut hours to the point that no one can do everything expected of them. Have any of you been told that you have a documentation quota? We’ve been told it’s three a week.


----------



## commiecorvus (Mar 22, 2021)

Can I just say how much I hate the concept of performancing people out?
If they aren't doing the job you give them goals to reach and the tools they need to reach the goals.
You figure out why they aren't about to reach the goals.
Ultimately if it's because they don't want to and don't fit in then you might have to let them go but take responsibility for that.
Maybe, they would work out better in a different department or you could do job carving where you create a job that works perfectly for them.
Oh, the idea of creating a job that works for them seems crazy?
Well, not everybody is one size fits all.
We do that all the time in DVR.
We carve out jobs that fit people with certain kinds of disabilities all the time.
And it it works, the company gets an amazing, loyal employee who does a great job, and the employee is doing a job they are good at every day.
What a concept.
It doesn't just have to be for people with disabilities.
We really need to work towards peoples strengths rather then ding them for their weaknesses.


----------



## allnew2 (Mar 22, 2021)

@commiecorvus  i agree. However some people are just so stuck up on what they want that they don’t want to take advice . I had tm in inbound d where I tried my hardest to explain to them that inbound is just not a good fit for them and that I can have them do something else in the store like flex fill , gm or even cashier . I would schedule them one day in those departments and they would come back and say they want inbound because of the no interaction with the guest however they couldn’t pull their weight. And at that point i was left with little to no choice.


----------



## Planosss enraged (Mar 22, 2021)

I think a little bit of compassion goes a long way. Some people are dead weight and it is management’s job to cut those loose. Just business 🤷🏻‍♂️.


----------



## commiecorvus (Mar 22, 2021)

allnew2 said:


> @commiecorvus  i agree. However some people are just so stuck up on what they want that they don’t want to take advice . I had tm in inbound d where I tried my hardest to explain to them that inbound is just not a good fit for them and that I can have them do something else in the store like flex fill , gm or even cashier . I would schedule them one day in those departments and they would come back and say they want inbound because of the no interaction with the guest however they couldn’t pull their weight. And at that point i was left with little to no choice.



So they clearly can't handle customer interaction which is why they prefer inbound.
What is it about inbound that isn't a good fit for them?
They don't work fast enough, independently enough, accurately enough?
Did you explain that to them?
Give them a chance to improve those skills?
Well, I'm sure you did but many don't.
Giving them an improvement plan with achievable goals to reach would help both of you.
That way it would clear you aren't trying to punish them.
You would be helping them improve themselves and improve your team.

Also, as much as I hate the entire concept, if they can't be bothered to reach the goals you have a clear window for moving them out.


----------



## allnew2 (Mar 22, 2021)

commiecorvus said:


> So they clearly can't handle customer interaction which is why they prefer inbound.
> What is it about inbound that isn't a good fit for them?
> They don't work fast enough, independently enough, accurately enough?
> Did you explain that to them?
> ...


Believe me I tried . I had this person on the line struggling , missing almost all the boxes , not being able to memorize the custom blocks , so I asked how can I help, the question was how I do it. I said there’s a few ways that I do the line , I go by custom block ,or memorize the aisle or I do it by department and class , I said I don’t expect you to know it like I do but here is few ways I do it. Tried that didn’t work . Then I gave this person 1 bay alone , plastic , paper and babies . Again missing all the boxes. Then I put this person at the end of the line again line would get backup up waiting for the boxes to be picked off the line . My last suggestion was let’s put you in the truck , this is the time that we have to finish by , and the pick label needs to be up when it hits the skate . After a panel and a half said that it’s to much. At that point I feel like I tried everything I could and that’s when I suggested all the other areas had this person scheduled there , then after a week wanted back in inbound and again explained the expectations and I can’t  have everyone else pick up the slack.


----------



## jenna (Mar 22, 2021)

don't want to know how Plastic, Paper and Baby items can be missed....  most of the boxes have the product names on them.  

I can see mixing up a RePack, from time to time.  
all.look.same.


----------



## allnew2 (Mar 22, 2021)

jenna said:


> don't want to know how Plastic, Paper and Baby items can be missed....  most of the boxes have the product names on them.
> 
> I can see mixing up a RePack, from time to time.
> all.look.same.


Not only that , but those boxes are bulky like for real , besides baby food and essentials I don’t know how can it be done . But it was


----------



## Him (Mar 22, 2021)

@allnew2 I haven’t said anything about anything in AWHILE but I had to chime in to this conversation... You literally have to be blind to miss Babies!! No disrespect for anyone that has any disability, did this tm have a mental disability where they couldn’t comprehend you? To me that would be the only thing preventing me from carrying out duties for an inbound tm.. I doubt that I’m the only one in that assessment


----------



## happygoth (Mar 22, 2021)

But @allnew2 and @commiecorvus isn't what you're discussing basically performancing someone out? Their performance is being addressed and ways to improve are discussed and/or implemented.

It's a great and noble idea to tweak a job to suit an individual's capabilities, but sometimes the requirements of the job make it impossible to accommodate all, and sometimes another position more suited to someone is not available. And of course, sometimes no matter what you do, the person is just not performing, whether intentionally or because they are just not suited for the position.

Employers set job requirements and hire people with the expectation that they will be able to execute said requirements. If they can't or won't, it is an employer's right to address the issue.


----------



## allnew2 (Mar 22, 2021)

Him said:


> @allnew2 I haven’t said anything about anything in AWHILE but I had to chime in to this conversation... You literally have to be blind to miss Babies!! No disrespect for anyone that has any disability, did this tm have a mental disability where they couldn’t comprehend you? To me that would be the only thing preventing me from carrying out duties for an inbound tm.. I doubt that I’m the only one in that assessment


No issues that I was aware of . What I know is that he was a rockstar in flex fill  for a while and then he asked the  Etl at the time    about  changing to inbound something  he really wanted from the beginning and since we were going overnight for q4 and not a lot of tm wanted to do it. So I found myself with a person who didn’t seem to either get it or wanted to get it. All the complains were that is to much .


----------



## allnew2 (Mar 22, 2021)

happygoth said:


> But @allnew2 and @commiecorvus isn't what you're discussing basically performancing someone out? Their performance is being addressed and ways to improve are discussed and/or implemented.
> 
> It's a great and noble idea to tweak a job to suit an individual's capabilities, but sometimes the requirements of the job make it impossible to accommodate all, and sometimes another position more suited to someone is not available. And of course, sometimes no matter what you do, the person is just not performing, whether intentionally or because they are just not suited for the position.
> 
> Employers set job requirements and hire people with the expectation that they will be able to execute said requirements. If they can't or won't, it is an employer's right to address the issue.


Yes . However some Tl are out to performance someone out without actually giving a chance to improve .


----------



## happygoth (Mar 22, 2021)

allnew2 said:


> Yes . However some Tl are out to performance someone out without actually giving a chance to improve .


I have heard many times on here that this is the case but I sure have not seen that in my store. You practically have to be caught with your hand in the till or punch someone to get fired.


----------



## Frontlanegirl (Mar 22, 2021)

allnew2 said:


> Yes . However some Tl are out to performance someone out without actually giving a chance to improve .


Yes, and ETL’s, too! I’ve said it before, how can you expect someone to improve if you don’t explain to the TM where they need to improve and how they can improve.  By telling a TM that their performance needs to improve or they will be fired is not a good management style.


----------



## allnew2 (Mar 22, 2021)

Frontlanegirl said:


> Yes, and ETL’s, too! I’ve said it before, how can you expect someone to improve if you don’t explain to the TM where they need to improve and how they can improve.  By telling a TM that their performance needs to improve or they will be fired is not a good management style.


It’s all about knowing the why’s  behind of it so they can improve .


----------



## MrT (Mar 22, 2021)

allnew2 said:


> It’s all about knowing the why’s  behind of it so they can improve .


I had a tm with severe adhd that was terrible at inbound amd gm but was pretty  good in flex.  We let them go for other reasons but overall not a bad person or employee but just couldnt manage to pay attention enough to do a good job in either position.


----------



## allnew2 (Mar 22, 2021)

MrT said:


> I had a tm with severe adhd that was terrible at inbound amd gm but was pretty  good in flex.  We let them go for other reasons but overall not a bad person or employee but just couldnt manage to pay attention enough to do a good job in either position.


Yeah it’s tough position


----------



## Frontlanegirl (Mar 23, 2021)

allnew2 said:


> It’s all about knowing the why’s  behind of it so they can improve .


I’ve known several managers who could care less and don’t want to spend the time to do this.


----------



## Planosss enraged (Mar 23, 2021)

If a TM lies to me or pushes like a monkey slinging its own feces around, they are dead to me.
I will do everything to make their lives so miserable they’ll beg to be fired.
I will help anyone improve  , but I don’t tolerate liars and shit slinging monkeys.


----------



## Boxman (Jun 2, 2021)

I came across something interesting the other day.  My ETL left a copy of a Performance Improvement Plan on their desk.  

This was written by our SD and was about that ETL.  

Being a TL, I have done a million performance conversations and a thousand CCA'S, but I've never had to write or give someone a Performance Improvement Plan.  Is the wording/terminology different because it's for an ETL? 

Based on the wording it seems like a CA to me.  

The awkward part was deciding to tell them to put it away somewhere safe.  Their office was being used all day for Business Unit Reviews....

Yikes if anyone else saw it.


----------



## Coqui (Jun 2, 2021)

For Exempt leaders, that’s their version of a CCA. They have to submit a performance improvement plan to their leader stating how they will improve their performance and a timeframe.


----------



## Boxman (Jun 4, 2021)

CoquiAzul said:


> For Exempt leaders, that’s their version of a CCA. They have to submit a performance improvement plan to their leader stating how they will improve their performance and a timeframe.


That's so bizarre.  When I called my ETL to there office I was like "Hey you should probably put this somewhere safe.  I read enough to know it shouldn't be out, but that's it". 

I walked out of their office after that.  I'm assuming they did something with it after.  

My ETL and I don't hate each other, but we aren't best friends either.  They never mentioned it or acknowledged it since.  

Like, in a way, I can see some of there past decisions leading to a "Seek to Understand" with our SD, but not a CCA.  

I thought my ETL-HR or my SD might say something since I saw it but they haven't.  

Like can you imagine someone on your team, who you already have disagreements with, finds out your on a CA?  I'm not a total asshole though so there secret is safe.......until the leave their paperwork out again....lol


----------



## BullseyeBabe (Jul 6, 2021)

I’m posting this here because I just need to vent. We have some TMs that I’ve got so much documentation on because they just need to go. Either they just stand around and to nothing (except for listening to their AirPods) or the just do whatever they want. We are being told to focus on recognition and retention. 
One of the TMs just wants do be in his or or her favorite work centers, but refuses to work in other areas. Their position requires them to work in all the work centers. If I say anything to them, they complain to my ETL. 
Recently I needed them to help in other areas along with another issue that I won’t mention here. (It would be to easy for someone at my store to recognize me) They were very disrespectful and threatened to go to the ETL.
They went to the ETL and complained that I don’t like them. They feel like I don’t have a personal relationship with them. I’m not singling this TM out and I don’t dislike them. I just expect them to do the same work their peers do.
So, once again there will be no repercussions and I feel unsupported.
I’m sorry this is so long, but I’m really frustrated. This TM does this same thing to other TMs so they don’t want to work with him or her. It’s hard, especially if you have a small team due to call outs or scheduling and you can’t count on this TM. Often they don’t even know where he or she is.
I’m supposed to have off-stage conversations with this TM to get to know them, so that’s what I’ll do. 
I’m just glad that I can come here and vent.


----------



## Black Sheep 214 (Jul 6, 2021)

BullseyeBabe said:


> I’m posting this here because I just need to vent. We have some TMs that I’ve got so much documentation on because they just need to go. Either they just stand around and to nothing (except for listening to their AirPods) or the just do whatever they want. We are being told to focus on recognition and retention.
> One of the TMs just wants do be in his or or her favorite work centers, but refuses to work in other areas. Their position requires them to work in all the work centers. If I say anything to them, they complain to my ETL.
> Recently I needed them to help in other areas along with another issue that I won’t mention here. (It would be to easy for someone at my store to recognize me) They were very disrespectful and threatened to go to the ETL.
> They went to the ETL and complained that I don’t like them. They feel like I don’t have a personal relationship with them. I’m not singling this TM out and I don’t dislike them. I just expect them to do the same work their peers do.
> ...


Sorry your ETL won’t back you up in holding your team accountable. Having a TM like the one you described on your team is a real morale destroyer, and your ETL should realize that having an unproductive disrespectful person on your team that the rest of the team doesn’t want to work with will not help with retention. Whenever a slacker gets away with it with no repercussions from management the rest of the team sees it as favoritism, which is exactly what it is. Your ETL should be backing you up in holding your team accountable, not taking the side of a problem TM against you. The squeaky wheel should not be getting that much oil. Sounds to me that your ETL is very out of touch with what is going on with your (their) team, and in pacifying the little prince/princess they will be alienating everyone else, pretty much the last thing that will help with retention, except of course for the problem TM who has a sweet deal and will stay there as the bad apple poisoning the barrel until your ETL wakes up and smells the coffee or leaves. Hope one or the other happens soon. You might want to have those off-stage conversations with this TM in the presence of witnesses, since who knows what they might accuse you of next. CYA. Good luck!


----------



## BullseyeBabe (Jul 6, 2021)

Thank you! I appreciate your response. It does have a negative impact on morale. The other TMs are seeing it and hearing the bragging that they get away with what they are doing. It’s bringing everyone down.
I’m not the only leader at my store that’s having a hard time holding problem TMs accountable. It’s our ETLs, our HR/ETL and our HRBP.


----------



## Far from newbie (Jul 6, 2021)

I know, a case of mind my own business . . . . But -

One of our new TL is late EVERY shift - he doesn’t punch in -instead,  he submits punch corrections that show he is on  Time.  NOT just by a few minutes  AND more than a few times.  The SD was told this is happening by BOTH HR and AP.   Nothing has been done.  
What could be the reason for paying this person that is not even there ?


----------



## jenna (Jul 6, 2021)

I see slackers at my store all.the.time.

I keep my mouth shut, and my head down.  I also try my best not to work in their areas... nor clean up any of their messes.  I am just a team member, though.  aka - not my job to keep them on track.


----------



## Black Sheep 214 (Jul 6, 2021)

Far from newbie said:


> I know, a case of mind my own business . . . . But -
> 
> One of our new TL is late EVERY shift - he doesn’t punch in -instead,  he submits punch corrections that show he is on  Time.  NOT just by a few minutes  AND more than a few times.  The SD was told this is happening by BOTH HR and AP.   Nothing has been done.
> What could be the reason for paying this person that is not even there ?


AP could be building a case. Shouldn’t be difficult with the paper trail he’s leaving, and theft of time is a termination offense. Even if your SD won’t do anything, I doubt that district AP will let that pass.


----------



## Fluttervale (Jul 6, 2021)

Far from newbie said:


> I know, a case of mind my own business . . . . But -
> 
> One of our new TL is late EVERY shift - he doesn’t punch in -instead,  he submits punch corrections that show he is on  Time.  NOT just by a few minutes  AND more than a few times.  The SD was told this is happening by BOTH HR and AP.   Nothing has been done.
> What could be the reason for paying this person that is not even there ?


Building a case.  If he’s also doing something else (like stealing merchandise or cash) they’re going to do the walk of shame.


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Jul 7, 2021)

Far from newbie said:


> I know, a case of mind my own business . . . . But -
> 
> One of our new TL is late EVERY shift - he doesn’t punch in -instead,  he submits punch corrections that show he is on  Time.  NOT just by a few minutes  AND more than a few times.  The SD was told this is happening by BOTH HR and AP.   Nothing has been done.
> What could be the reason for paying this person that is not even there ?


Spot is watching them. Document all events that you see happening. Cya & for ap if they ask you questions about it.


----------



## BullseyeBabe (Jul 7, 2021)

The TL that is submitting punch corrections is being watched why AP. They will get them. 

Jenna, that’s one of the reasons I’m so frustrated. Other TMs come to me to complain about the problem TMs and all I can do is say that I’ll talk to them. It’s not going to change anything though.


----------



## Black Sheep 214 (Jul 7, 2021)

BullseyeBabe said:


> The TL that is submitting punch corrections is being watched why AP. They will get them.
> 
> Jenna, that’s one of the reasons I’m so frustrated. Other TMs come to me to complain about the problem TMs and all I can do is say that I’ll talk to them. It’s not going to change anything though.


No wonder you’re frustrated. Spot is a tough place to be a TL since they give you the responsibility to run a department but not the authority to do it. Sometimes I think TLs only exist as a shield to take the blame for ETLs’ mistakes. Good luck, hope you get a better ETL soon.😁


----------



## Fluttervale (Jul 7, 2021)

BullseyeBabe said:


> The TL that is submitting punch corrections is being watched why AP. They will get them.
> 
> Jenna, that’s one of the reasons I’m so frustrated. Other TMs come to me to complain about the problem TMs and all I can do is say that I’ll talk to them. It’s not going to change anything though.


I would address it differently.  I would, as a TL, make sure the complainer knew it wasn’t their business and that all TMs are treated equally.  I would remind them that the performance of other employees, as well as coaching and write ups, are confidential.  They wouldn’t like it if you were discussing their performance with others, right?  

This accomplishes two things.  First, it gives them the idea that you ARE addressing it but can’t talk about it, which makes them complain less.  Secondly it assures them that you keep their performance confidential.  By listening to their complaints the begin to think that their opinions matter (they don’t) and creates divisiveness and drama.  Even your low performers bring something to the table.  Some work is better than no work.


----------



## jenna (Jul 7, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> I would address it differently.  I would, as a TL, make sure the complainer knew it wasn’t their business and that all TMs are treated equally.  I would remind them that the performance of other employees, as well as coaching and write ups, are confidential.  They wouldn’t like it if you were discussing their performance with others, right?
> 
> This accomplishes two things.  First, it gives them the idea that you ARE addressing it but can’t talk about it, which makes them complain less.  Secondly it assures them that you keep their performance confidential.  By listening to their complaints the begin to think that their opinions matter (they don’t) and creates divisiveness and drama.  Even your low performers bring something to the table.  *Some work is better than no work.*



You lost me with that one.


----------



## BullseyeBabe (Jul 7, 2021)

I’m sorry but I have to be there for all my TMs. If a team member is giving someone a hard time they need to know that they can tell me. Not that I can do anything about it.
Today is hard because I’m working with one of  the TMs that were very disrespectful to me. There are no consequences, so what message does that send to my team?


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Jul 7, 2021)

BullseyeBabe said:


> I’m sorry but I have to be there for all my TMs. If a team member is giving someone a hard time they need to know that they can tell me. Not that I can do anything about it.
> Today is hard because I’m working with one of  the TMs that were very disrespectful to me. There are no consequences, so what message does that send to my team?


Be a pro & fair. Tell them that what they said was disrespectful quietly.


----------



## Fluttervale (Jul 7, 2021)

jenna said:


> You lost me with that one.


Ok, say your complainer is a day person complaining that the closer doesn’t zone right.  Does complainer want to start closing so it can be done right?  Or does complainer want me to move closer to days so they can work together and they can train the person they’re complaining about?  Or can they live with a half assed close if it means they don’t have to close?

Yeah, sure, I’m also going to work with half assed closer and the closing TL to correct the issue but I’m also not going to have clique wars in my department because all that does is make call offs happen and someone have a panic attack on the clock and do nothing for a hour.


----------



## jenna (Jul 7, 2021)

I deal with that shit, right now. 
I'd rather have someone who can do the job correctly.


----------



## Fluttervale (Jul 7, 2021)

jenna said:


> I deal with that shit, right now.
> I'd rather have someone who can do the job correctly.


I’m not saying don’t deal with it but don’t deal with it in public.  Your team doesn’t need front row tickets to someone else getting in trouble.  That just loses you trust as a leader.  Now vendors?  Go ahead and let them all know who’s in trouble and whyz


----------

