# Reflecting on leadership in the past..



## tdude2020 (Nov 17, 2020)

For those that have been around for a while, what leadership titles have existed in the past, and do you feel target would benefit by bringing them back?

I was speaking to a veteran TM the other day, and he was talking about working at Target years ago and how common it was to see dozens of executive leaders and regular team leads with all different job titles on the floor, and it was great. 

Now it seems like everyone stays in their office, and we only have about 25 supervisors to 250+ team members, and the workload is becoming absurd. You will never see our ETLS, and our team leads pop out every once in a while to micromanage. 

No real point to this thread, I was just curious because it seems like we do so much with so little, at least at my store. Also, what positions do you feel might be integrated or cut in the future as retail continuously changes?


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 17, 2020)

Ctls (cashier tl)
Level 1 (Tms) level 2 (specialists that don’t supervise others...signing, cash office, jewelry, electronics, etc) and level 3s (tl)


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## Hardlinesmaster (Nov 17, 2020)

With modernization, spot will never go back to those titles.


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## Rastaman (Nov 17, 2020)

If you don't see your leadership on the floor,  they're doing a shitty job of running the store.  My SD is on the floor most of the day,  my ETL is running unload/sfs all day, and all my TL peers are always on the floor.  

It's a struggle for me to find 5 min/day offstage to check email this time of year.  The pace is faster than ever..


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## tdude2020 (Nov 17, 2020)

Well, then this is more than likely why the store is always a damn mess. I've been at three stores so far, and this one is by far the worst. It may just be the time of day I come in, but I seldom see my ETLs, and the SD is always busy in her office. She's also the type that will NOT help out if there are enough people to take care of the daily tasks ( there aren't because there are so many fucking call-ins, being a mall store in a busy college town). Don't even get me started on the HR department. 

I feel like I'm just biased and jaded because the first store I applied to, was trained in, and worked for a year and a half was a highly functioning test store that, in my opinion, is one of the best targets in our entire state.


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## 60SecondsRemaining (Nov 19, 2020)

Target already has way more leaders than most retail establishments.  Most have two salaried managers and a smattering of dept managers.

Most big box retail stores generally have:

1 - Store Manager (Salary)
1 - Asst. Store Manager (Salary)
~5 - Dept Supervisors (Hourly)
~5 - Specialty (ops, cash office, lead cashier, etc (Hourly..not a supervisor).

When I was a specialist, we had like 8 ETLs, 10 TLs, 5 specialists.  It's way too many cooks.


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## MrT (Nov 19, 2020)

I remember talking with one of my old tls, back when i started.  We thought it was a big deal when he went from an electronics tl to and electronics and toys tm.  Nowadays thats like 1 tenth of what we do.


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## tdude2020 (Nov 20, 2020)

I can definitely see that. Also, what was a specialist? Was this title used in every department, and were they compensated differently than regular team members/consultants?


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## Hardlinesmaster (Nov 20, 2020)

tdude2020 said:


> I can definitely see that. Also, what was a specialist? Was this title used in every department, and were they compensated differently than regular team members/consultants?











						Archived - ae10 info former specialists
					

ae10 info former specialists & ae09 info  i found this info on ae10 that i saved. source info from tm's of thebreakroom.org, GTC to gsa nueva & fA72Challenger for advance info on specialist changes:  The AE 2010 guides have been where I've been able to reach them, and basically EVERY...




					www.thebreakroom.org


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## 60SecondsRemaining (Nov 20, 2020)

tdude2020 said:


> I can definitely see that. Also, what was a specialist? Was this title used in every department, and were they compensated differently than regular team members/consultants?



Stores (circa late 90s, early 2000s) used to have teams broken into levels.

Level 1 - Team Member/Cashier. About what you would expect, normal stuff depending on the team
Level 2 - Specialist (1-2 dollars over level 1).  Owned a specialty area and managed it.  Set all of the salesplanners, did all of the research, etc...  From what I understand of Target now, this is functionally similar to the GM team member role.  Specialists went away shortly before the debut of the now largely defunct instocks process.
Level 3 - Team Leader (3 dollars over level 1).  Managed a store area.  Could be Flow, Backroom, Salesfloor areas, Pharmacy, Guest Service, Etc.\
Level 4 - Senior Team Leader (4-7 dollars over level 1).  Same duties as a TL plus store keys and LOD duties.  Essentially an ETL that is paid hourly and has actual responsibility.  Most seniors at this time also made more than many ETLs.
ETL - Role hasn't changed
Sr. ETL - Largely eliminated, but is a slot for more challenging etl slots in higher volume stores, such as ops or grocery in a super.
STL - Role hasn't changed, think this is called Store Director now.


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## bloodyred (Nov 20, 2020)

Years ago I was a specialist in Electronics.  I basically did all the Revisions and Salesplanners and was part of Transition resets.  Throughout the week it was just about sales, getting AAR's and SRP's, checking TV prices every morning.  There was no BDS then, so maintaining displays and fixing issues as they came up and partnering with the PML was part of the job.

I thinks Specialist positions and SrTL, specifically for the closing lead and opening truck lead need to be brought back, a sense of worth for certain TM's in certain areas is important I think.  A low volume doesn't need more than 4 ETL's, high volume no more than 7.  Our store has been functioning with way less TL's than modernization called for to have keys, the trust just wasn't there for many.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 20, 2020)

All 3 of our gmtls do unload. The other two do it when covering the unload gmtl day off and vacations.
But all three are scheduled to do it at least once a week.


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## tdude2020 (Nov 21, 2020)

Interesting, I am assuming there were more management positions back then, especially ETL positions.

**update. After browsing this sub some more, I've come to realize that several different ETL positions have been eliminated and renamed for modernization purposes. Also, I agree with you that most retail stores don't need a bus full of salaried managers.

I'd argue that lower volume stores don't need more than 2 or 3 salaried, and high volume 6-8 with hourly supervisors in between. The low volume I just transferred from only had two, and the one before that had 5. The one I am at now has five, plus the SD. Apparently, some targets have 20 salaried and who knows how many hourly managers. Must be doing crazy ass sales to afford and need that many.


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## happygoth (Nov 21, 2020)

We have only two ETLs, HR and GM.


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## kendrickugalde (Nov 21, 2020)

For my store, it's 

TM (Including Cashier, Guest Services/Advocate, Specialty Sales, etc.)
Then TL's/HR
ETL
SD

That's pretty much it.

Also, if your leads are just staying in the office like 99% of the time, then there might be a problem to be honest. They're also supposed to help manage the floor. But yet again we might not know what other things might be taking up their time. They got phone calls and paper work to do, etc.


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## StyleMaven1 (Nov 21, 2020)

tdude2020 said:


> Interesting, I am assuming there were more management positions back then, especially ETL positions.
> 
> **update. After browsing this sub some more, I've come to realize that several different ETL positions have been eliminated and renamed for modernization purposes. Also, I agree with you that most retail stores don't need a bus full of salaried managers.
> 
> I'd argue that lower volume stores don't need more than 2 or 3 salaried, and high volume 6-8 with hourly supervisors in between. The low volume I just transferred from only had two, and the one before that had 5. The one I am at now has five, plus the SD. Apparently, some targets have 20 salaried and who knows how many hourly managers. Must be doing crazy ass sales to afford and need that many.


I'm at a Super, but we're only about 42 mil last year. We have SD, ETL HR and one HRtm, ETL specialty and 2 Style TL, ETL GM and 3 GM TL, one Food Etl, MDF TL, Dry grocery TL, Produce TL, Bakery/Deli/Starbucks TL, PML, one VM. 
I've heard of stores with high enough volume to get 5 Style TLs.


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## happygoth (Nov 21, 2020)

Holy cow, we don't have anyone dedicated to just Style - one Specialty TL, that's it! Oh, and a VM.


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## StyleMaven1 (Nov 21, 2020)

happygoth said:


> Holy cow, we don't have anyone dedicated to just Style - one Specialty TL, that's it! Oh, and a VM.


We still have one smaller pfresh in our area that has that setup! The other one hit their sales threshold and got bumped up to having a SS etl and style tl.


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## NKG (Nov 21, 2020)

Planno TL and a team


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## Anelmi (Nov 21, 2020)

I strongly believe they should bring back the GSA +$1 pay raise.

There is NO reason I should function as a TL and still get paid the same as Joe Blow who gets hired tomorrow.


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## tdude2020 (Nov 21, 2020)

We have our SD, our ETL-GM and Food Sales, ETL-HR, ETL-Service and Engagement, and ETL Specialty Sales. 3 GM Team Leads, 1 for grocery, 2 or 3 for style, 3 for SE, 2 for HR, and SEVERAL for AP (high-risk mall). Also, we have our property management lead. I'm still new to the store, so I'm still figuring out what everyone does. I know for sure we are in the upper 20s for leads.

I think it's weird how this store doesn't have an ETL for food only, but the open market area is minimal, and the volume just isn't there. Our sales are identical to my first store ($45,000,000) , and we had five ETLs, added one for food, but their market area was huge compared to this mall store. When I compare our org chart to the guide's we should have a few more leads, but I understand that's not always how it works.


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## SilentCrow (Dec 27, 2020)




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## SilentCrow (Dec 27, 2020)

It’ll help mentioning the sales range of your store like some have here.

Current store ($85 million):

2 GM-ETLs
1 Specialty ETL
1 Consumables ETL
1 Service and Engagement ETL
1 Style ETL
1 ETL-AP
1 HR ETL
2 Inbound ETLs

3 GM TLs
3 Style TLs
1 Tech and Beauty TL
1 Flex TL
3 Inbound TLs
1 HR TL
3 SE TLs

My other stores were $100 million+

It was similar but they have a Sr Merch. A position that barely exist now.

*** I would also say the market you’re in matters too. My market is NYC which is a unique place and a lot of what spot does have to be altered here to work in this market.***


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## JohnSith373 (Dec 27, 2020)

SilentCrow said:


> It’ll help mentioning the sales range of your store like some have here.
> 
> Current store ($85 million):
> 
> ...


No consumables TL? I’m surprised you don’t have any closing TLs. My store has the same ETL and TL count with slight variation since were shy of $85 million.

1 ETL Inbound

3 F&B TL (1 Dry, 1 Perishables, 1 Food Ave)
4 GM TL
2 Closing TL
2 Inbound TL
Southern California store


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## Rarejem (Dec 27, 2020)

Around $32million

4 ETL:  Service & Engagement, GM (also does consumable and inbound), (useless) HR, and Specialty Sales
10 TL:  3 GM, 1 Consumables, 2 S&E (1 also has Starbucks, no extra pay), 2 A&A, 1 VM(also does signing), 1 Fulfillment. (plus 1 closing TL on long term LOA with job rotated by all but S&E TL's.  Inbound is also rotated by all but S&E and Consumables TL's. Not sure if PML is considered a TL)
15 DBO (2 are similar to former GSA) and 1 AP that get paid the same as every other tm, but hold accountability for the work of each department

Seriously miss/need Instocks Team and actual trainers. There is a core group that are scheduled to Plano for large sets, but not an actual team. Softlines misses the pricing team.


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## SilentCrow (Dec 27, 2020)

JohnSith373 said:


> No consumables TL? I’m surprised you don’t have any closing TLs. My store has the same ETL and TL count with slight variation since were shy of $85 million.
> 
> 1 ETL Inbound
> 
> ...



yes lol. I did this kinda off the top of my head.

1 Dry TL
1 Pfresh TL
2 Closing TLs


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## Sisyphus (Dec 30, 2020)

The old specialty teams (level 2) were really nice to have. 

It allowed you to concentrate on main task instead of spreading yourself over 6 things that may each all only get done a little bit everyday. (Need to finish salesplans, revisions and the truck? Too bad because your stuck on backup for 45 min of your day. And did I mention the phone call with the guest that keeps you on the phone for 15 min? How about that guest that needs to tell you their life story?)
It was nice to have a "go-to" person who knew the in and outs of the job not just a little about it.  
It was easier to find people who were tailored to a job i.e.  some people are great with guests but would be nearly driven to tears doing a plano. Some people were efficient and meticulous about the backroom and backstocking but are not cut out to deal with guests. And cashiering is not a job for just anyone.
But at the end of the day it just seems cheaper to have less people doing more jobs so like it or not this is the way it is.


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## KarmaToBurn (Dec 30, 2020)

LOD... I'm sorry but there needs to be a single person at the helm at any given time. Yes, if a specialist is needed (and there) then call them. But some things are just in general and now no one in the building knows why the RotoRooter guy is at the back door or what he needs to fix...


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## happygoth (Dec 30, 2020)

KarmaToBurn said:


> LOD... I'm sorry but there needs to be a single person at the helm at any given time. Yes, if a specialist is needed (and there) then call them. But some things are just in general and now no one in the building knows why the RotoRooter guy is at the back door or what he needs to fix...


We do our own version of LOD, many TMs still use the term! If SD is in the building they will respond, and the closer responds from about 2pm on. If SD isn't there during the day someone else from leadership knows it's their responsibility to answer unless a specific TL is called.


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## ClosingQueen (Dec 31, 2020)

$50 mil pfresh store

SD
1 GM ETL - 1 inbound TL (also owns essentials) 1 Plano TL (also owns toys, sporting goods and entertainment) 1 GM TL (owns C & D) 1 SFS TL (6 pack stations) 1 Starbucks TL and 1 Market TL
1 Specialty ETL - 2 Style TLs (should be 3)
1 S & E ETL - 2 SETLs
1 HR ETL - 2 HR TMs
1 Closing Team Lead

Definitely miss GSAs, we do have certain GS TMs who open and close and try to help blinking lights when they aren't swamped at the desk.


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## Sisyphus (Dec 31, 2020)

Overall (top to bottom) we have less than half of the staff we used to have when I first started. I laugh now to think we used to have an ETL who was in charge of JUST the cafe. And TWO JUST for logistics.


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## BadWolf4531 (Dec 31, 2020)

tdude2020 said:


> No real point to this thread, I was just curious because it seems like we do so much with so little, at least at my store. Also, what positions do you feel might be integrated or cut in the future as retail continuously changes?



I can see Service & Engagement (formerly Guest Experience) ETLs being integrated with other ETL roles in the higher volume stores. This was already done years ago in lower-volume stores. 

I can also see Fulfillment needing its own ETL (or at least an additional ETL-GM).


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## tdude2020 (Jan 3, 2021)

Sisyphus said:


> . I laugh now to think we used to have an ETL who was in charge of JUST the cafe. And TWO JUST for logistics.


I've seen several posts like this around here as well as the subreddit for target. This intrigues me, how many ETL positions cease to exist, and what were they called? I'm aware there used to be an operations, logistics, and replenishment when we still had a nicely staffed BR team. I'm familiar with the SPS, HR, AP, F&B, GM, and SE and their old titles (SL, HR, AP, Food, HL, and GE). Do larger and higher volume targets staff with more titles or just with several of the same kind of position?


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## tdude2020 (Jan 3, 2021)

SilentCrow said:


> It’ll help mentioning the sales range of your store like some have here.


I've never worked at a store that was above $50,000,000. They've also only been base or low volume. My lowest was $18M with only 2 ETLs and the SD with 8 TLs, and my first and current are identical in sales at $45M, 4-5 team leaders, and 12 team leads. I'm around the Minneapolis/St. Paul Metro Area, and the targets I've worked in have been in all the small towns in that circle the metro. Although, every target in the metro/suburban area appears to be a super with insane foot traffic.


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## Bufferine (Jan 3, 2021)

My leaders are always on the floor Working. Even SD.


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## SilentCrow (Jan 3, 2021)

tdude2020 said:


> I've never worked at a store that was above $50,000,000. They've also only been base or low volume. My lowest was $18M with only 2 ETLs and the SD with 8 TLs, and my first and current are identical in sales at $45M, 4-5 team leaders, and 12 team leads. I'm around the Minneapolis/St. Paul Metro Area, and the targets I've worked in have been in all the small towns in that circle the metro. Although, every target in the metro/suburban area appears to be a super with insane foot traffic.


Maybe one day for me. So far I just been in monster stores.


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## vyrt (Jan 3, 2021)

$30 mil last year. 
SD
4etls (hr, specialty, S&E, gm/food)
3 gm tls
1 closing tl
2 S&E tl
2 style tl
1 food tl 

Same store doing $50 now (yay covid)
Same number of leads except add a sfs tl and a Starbucks tl that splits food.

Curious to see how many they try to add when they look at the new sales breakpoints.


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## seasonaldude (Jan 3, 2021)

vyrt said:


> $30 mil last year.
> SD
> 4etls (hr, specialty, S&E, gm/food)
> 3 gm tls
> ...



For a $30 million store I can't see how you're not already way over head count.


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## ephemerallll (Jan 3, 2021)

My store has,

-SD
-1 SR ETL
-1 HR ETL
- 1 HR TL
2 F&B ETLs
- 1 Consumables TL                
- 1 Overnight Consumables TL  
- 1 Dairy TL
- 1 Meat TL
- 1 Frozen TL
- 1 Produce TL
- 1 Bakery TL
- 1 Deli TL
- 1 SBBUX TL
2 Specialty ETLs
-1 A&A + Tech TL
-1 A&A + Beauty TL-
-1 A&A TL
-1 VML
1 S&E ETL
- 5 S&E TLs
2 GM ETLs
- 4 GM TLs
- 1 Fulfillment TL
2 Closing ETLs
- 3 Closing TLs
2 Inbound ETLs
-3 Inbound TLs
-1 AP ETL


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## Rastaman (Jan 3, 2021)

ephemerallll said:


> My store has,
> 
> -SD
> -1 SR ETL
> ...



Holy crap! That's a big leadership team. Your store must do big sales $$


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## tdude2020 (Jan 3, 2021)

ephemerallll said:


> My store has,
> 
> -SD
> -1 SR ETL
> ...



Oh, my god.  Soooooo many team leads!


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## allnew2 (Jan 3, 2021)

Rastaman said:


> If you don't see your leadership on the floor, they're doing a shitty job of running the store.


I beg to differ . If they are to much on the floor doing tasks as unload and sfs that means the team is not up to par. Is like why I have team leads if they can’t do an unload or making sure sfs is on track . 
So with that said if they are to much on the floor then they are not holding their team accountable


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## allnew2 (Jan 3, 2021)

I’m gonna get out here  85mil+
Tl wise
4 style leads 
2 food
1 p-fresh
1 Starbucks
4 off-site
3 inbound
1 hr 
4 gm p2
3 gm p1
1 opu ( no sfs for my store )
2 closing leads
5 setl
Etls
1 hr Etl 
2 style etls
1 se etl
1 ap Etl 
1 gm1 Etll
2 inbound Etl
3 gm p2 etls 
1 food and beverage Etl
1 off-site Etl


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## Anelmi (Jan 3, 2021)

2 Closing ETLs plus 3 Closing TLs? Seriously? Wow.


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## ephemerallll (Jan 3, 2021)

Rastaman said:


> Holy crap! That's a big leadership team. Your store must do big sales $$


And they just hired another ETL because I guess 14 still isn’t enough😀


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## Rastaman (Jan 3, 2021)

allnew2 said:


> I beg to differ . If they are to much on the floor doing tasks as unload and sfs that means the team is not up to par. Is like why I have team leads if they can’t do an unload or making sure sfs is on track .
> So with that said if they are to much on the floor then they are not holding their team accountable



It was 4th quarter.  We were doing the highest SFS volume in the group, and were very shorthanded every day due to callouts/COVID. Our GM1 and GM3 were both new to Target.


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## allnew2 (Jan 4, 2021)

Rastaman said:


> It was 4th quarter.  We were doing the highest SFS volume in the group, and were very shorthanded every day due to callouts/COVID. Our GM1 and GM3 were both new to Target.


In that case it is different . However what was said was and I quote “ If you don't see your leadership on the floor, they're doing a shitty job of running the store.”


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## Rastaman (Jan 4, 2021)

OP's original comment was "now everyone stays in their office". I feel leadership should spend the majority of their time on the floor,  but not necessarily being pulled into tasks.


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## allnew2 (Jan 4, 2021)

Rastaman said:


> OP's original comment was "now everyone stays in their office". I feel leadership should spend the majority of their time on the floor,  but not necessarily being pulled into tasks.


I get it but at the same time why would Etl who has 7 Tl be on the floor so much? To micromanage ? No one wants that


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## SilentCrow (Jan 4, 2021)

allnew2 said:


> I get it but at the same time why would Etl who has 7 Tl be on the floor so much? To micromanage ? No one wants that


With 7 TLs yeah they should only have to follow up here and there nothing crazy. I agree. Micromanaging is frustrating. 

I know overnight inbound ETLs wish they had that many lol.


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## allnew2 (Jan 4, 2021)

SilentCrow said:


> With 7 TLs yeah they should only have to follow up here and there nothing crazy. I agree. Micromanaging is frustrating.
> 
> I know overnight inbound ETLs wish they had that many lol.


We moved back to dayside


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## Caliwest (Jan 4, 2021)

allnew2 said:


> I get it but at the same time why would Etl who has 7 Tl be on the floor so much? To micromanage ? No one wants that


Our skulks around,never a word of affirmation for anyone but TL s. TM s are invisable.


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## RTCry (Jan 4, 2021)

SD
1 ETL GM
1 ETL HR
3 GM TLs
2 Specialty Sales TLs
2 SETLs
1 F&B TL
1 APTL
1 Closing TL


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## allnew2 (Jan 5, 2021)

Caliwest said:


> Our skulks around,never a word of affirmation for anyone but TL s. TM s are invisable.


You clearly taking things out of context. Maybe you should search some of my posts and you will see , some of the members of this forum knows dam well that i speak very highly of my team ,the team and more specifically inbound team in every store is what actually carries the store on their backs. 
We were talking about leadership but I guess you missed that memo . Thanks for the response tho


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## Meli4Target (Jan 5, 2021)

My store did 55 mil last year, however with COVID-19 we are close to breaking the 60 mil barrier. Our head count is as follows:

Store Director
Closing TL

ETL HR
2 HR Experts

ETL AP
1 APS

ETL GMFSL
GM TL -Inbound/Receiving & essentials
GM TL - Baby HL, Toys/sporting goods/seasonal & Presentation
GM TL - Stationary/Bullseye Playground/ and Home.
Food & Bev TL - PFresh/Dry/Adult Bev & Checklanes
Starbucks TL (Starbucks TL has opposite weekend rotation of F&B TL and assists on the floor on working weekends)
Fulfillment Operations TL - Also owns price change/audits & data integrity

ETL SS
Style TL - RTW/Juniors/Acc/Shoes/Woman's performance/Project Lace
Style TL- Mens/NIT/Kids Apparel
VM- Owns signing throughout the store/fixture room/VMG's/Hearth & Hand/Home Innovation

ETL S&E
S&E TL - Owns overall service throughout the sales floor/NPS/ & overall front of store operations (returns, cash office, etc)
S&E TL - Owns Drive up/ OPU/ Grocery Pick up, and anything digital for the guest.


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## Yetive (Jan 5, 2021)

Who owns Beauty and Tech?


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## tdude2020 (Jan 5, 2021)

Yetive said:


> Who owns Beauty and Tech?


In terms of leadership, it's specialty sales.


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## Yetive (Jan 5, 2021)

tdude2020 said:


> In terms of leadership, it's specialty sales.


Sorry, I was referring to @Meli4Target post. It's pretty detailed, but I don't see Beauty or Tech.


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## lucidtm (Jan 7, 2021)

Yetive said:


> Sorry, I was referring to @Meli4Target post. It's pretty detailed, but I don't see Beauty or Tech.



Ours is almost exactly like this and our ETL SS is who we report to for Beauty & Tech. There is no TL for those departments. Some stores do have it, some don't. I'm not sure the volume of the store that would require a Beauty/Tech TL, but I did once read (either on here or Reddit) that it was up to the discretion of the SD. Unsure if that is confirmed as true.


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## allnew2 (Jan 7, 2021)

lucidtm said:


> Ours is almost exactly like this and our ETL SS is who we report to for Beauty & Tech. There is no TL for those departments. Some stores do have it, some don't. I'm not sure the volume of the store that would require a Beauty/Teach TL, but I did once read (either on here or Reddit) that it was up to the discretion of the SD. Unsure if that is confirmed as true.


85mil+


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## tdude2020 (Jan 11, 2021)

lucidtm said:


> was up to the discretion of the SD. Unsure if that is confirmed as true.


I believe I have read something similar on Reddit. I don't remember the post, but I think they mentioned that each department needs to meet a sales goal to earn a TL since there should already be a couple of style leads and one for beauty and tech already.


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## Meli4Target (Jan 12, 2021)

Yetive said:


> Who owns Beauty and Tech?


Our ETL SS owns beauty & Tech. The style leads will help with any performance managing issues involved within specialty sales, but its the ETL who runs it.


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