# Greener Pastures Post Spot?



## Send me a sign (Nov 26, 2019)

Curious how things have worked out for all you former Targeteers who quit due to modernization this past year. Regrets? Wishing you had jumped ship sooner? I am going with the latter, although I will have to join a gym now since I’m getting soft around the middle not having to do the work of 3 people anymore. Like many escapees, I pop on here now and then in hopes that things are getting better for the very few vets that are still left.  I like to think that modernization was good for at least one thing and that it was the kick in the pants that some of us needed to get back on track and do something more meaningful or prosperous vs staying stagnant in a dead end job. Hopefully there’s a lot of success stories so that those that will have their hours cut to nearly nothing this time next month, will feel encouraged and know they have options if they are opened to looking for those options.


----------



## FredPanda3 (Nov 26, 2019)

I didn't realize how toxic of a place my store was until I started working at Nordstrom (Target was my first long-term job) afterwards and it was like a breath of fresh air. I was upset that I didn't leave sooner; I assumed all retail would be horrible and I was wrong. Now I'm working in a call center, and I feel like Target customers really gave me a thick skin in dealing with customers, not at Nordstrom or at this other high-range company have I dealt with such difficult, entitled people as I did when at Target.


----------



## soyaxo (Nov 27, 2019)

My biggest regret is going to a competitor of the company I work for now the first time I left Spot. I would be two years in, but I'm only six months in because of my choices. Six months of the happiest I've ever been at work. I always wish I started sooner, but I'm happy I left Spot for good this time. Even Sales Associates have control of their own schedule. Last-minute swaps due to unexpected circumstances? No problem. No lunch money? No problem -- There's food in the breakroom for emergencies when TMs can't afford their own, and I've seen plenty of associates share their lunches because they understand. It's inspired me to do the same. It is guaranteed that when you are closing, you will only stay until you're scheduled. No exceptions. If you're scheduled until 9, once those lights go off, you're good to go. If you're scheduled a little past close to work on go-backs, etc, as soon as it's time to leave (and sometimes ten minutes early depending on the closing leader), it's time to go. It's retail, but it's enjoyable. I get plenty of hours, yet I have the best work-life balance because the scheduling is much more realistic, even with my 45 hour work weeks (approved overtime)!


----------



## 60SecondsRemaining (Nov 27, 2019)

I left originally to do project management type work for another retailer (remodels, new stores) and then eventually manage stores for them.  From there I took advantage of some opportunities locally to move away from retail.

What's really stark in comparison is the prison style atmosphere the retail/service industry forces upon you.  Literally any other industry if you want to take a break....you just..do..

Want to come in at 8?  Great.  9?  Great.  10?  Great.  Work your allotted hours and get the work done.  No problem.


----------



## happygoth (Nov 27, 2019)

Hmm, well I don't think literally ALL other jobs but retail have that kind of laissez faire attitude about start times lol.


----------



## 60SecondsRemaining (Nov 27, 2019)

happygoth said:


> Hmm, well I don't think literally ALL other jobs but retail have that kind of laissez faire attitude about start times lol.



My current role lets me interface with people from a lot of different industries, and probably 80% of them operate on a "core hours" model where as long as you're there within the core hours (normally 9-3) and you work the amount of hours daily/weekly requested, then start/end times are flexible.

Retail/service forces you to be very rigid in your start/stop/break times just by nature of the business.  When I jumped to my current industry (Cybersecurity) it was the first thing I noticed.


----------



## happygoth (Nov 27, 2019)

That's nice for you, and for those that you interact with, but it's still not everyone. My friends and family have mostly punch in/punch out jobs - distribution center clerks, factory workers, company truck drivers, office administrators, dental assistants, plumbing showroom managers, teachers, police officers, etc etc etc - they all have start times that are not negotiable.


----------



## Tessa120 (Nov 28, 2019)

I have a start time that is non-negotiable but we also have a boss that is human if a pipe breaks or if a fender-bender happens on the way to work.

I do a mishmash of call center and sales and I love it.  Base wage is lower but there's also commission and guaranteed more hours.  Wage paychecks alone, not counting commissions, are higher than my Target checks.

People are awesome too. My coworkers and bosses are great.

I wish I could have had this job much sooner.


----------



## 60SecondsRemaining (Nov 29, 2019)

happygoth said:


> That's nice for you, and for those that you interact with, but it's still not everyone. My friends and family have mostly punch in/punch out jobs - distribution center clerks, factory workers, company truck drivers, office administrators, dental assistants, plumbing showroom managers, teachers, police officers, etc etc etc - they all have start times that are not negotiable.



Yeah most are these are service oriented, which I stated.  

It's a byproduct of the nature of the industry, but it's still awful and I feel for those people.


----------



## happygoth (Nov 29, 2019)

I don't know, I don't think it's awful at all. Societies need rules, otherwise it just becomes anarchy. In a retail environment and in many other jobs, there are things that need to be taken care of in a timely manner. You just can't have people strolling in whenever they please. What if everyone on a given day just felt like coming in at noon instead of 8? No one to help guests and perform other tasks for hours. It makes no sense. People have to be at work at a certain time because these things need to get done and people need to be there, to service the public and take care of other business. When you go to get a coffee or go out to eat, do you not want someone there to make your food and drink and bring it to you? When you call the authorities, wouldn't it be nice if they showed up? If you owned a business, it sure would be nice if your deliveries arrived in a timely manner, yes? This is the way the world works, the way society functions. I have nothing but admiration and respect for those that choose to work in service industries, and I appreciate people who show up to work ON TIME and DO THEIR JOB.


----------



## can't touch this (Nov 29, 2019)

happygoth said:


> Hmm, well I don't think literally ALL other jobs but retail have that kind of laissez faire attitude about start times lol.



They have a laissez-faire attitude about paying you


----------



## happygoth (Nov 29, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> They have a laissez-faire attitude about paying you


My first job I made $3.25 an hour. I'm not going to complain about 13-15 dollars, especially for a job that's as low-stress as this one. Most of the stress I feel is my own fault for having high standards. It would be nice if everyone on my team did things my way, aka the right way, but whatever. I just need to make like Elsa and let it go.


----------



## can't touch this (Nov 29, 2019)

happygoth said:


> My first job I made $3.25 an hour.



In the 80s?


----------



## happygoth (Nov 29, 2019)

Roger that!


----------



## tellmeaboutatime (Dec 5, 2019)

Best decision i have made in my working life. So many people are afraid to leave Spot because they have been beaten down and no longer think they can make it somewhere else. i just had a 4 day Thanksgiving weekend and am looking forward to the week between Christmas and New Years off.  For over 20 years i came to HATE Christmas. I loved the job at Target but hated the politics and incompetence of the “leaders”The shady (and illegal) business practices they used to thin  the workforce at my last store left me feeling disgusted and i knew I had to leave for my own self respect. If you are not happy, leave. You have one life to live and you are the master of your path


----------



## TTGOz (Dec 6, 2019)

I left Spot for Costco in April of this year, no regurts.

Although, I'd go back to Target if something didn't work out. Didn't hate it enough.


----------



## 60SecondsRemaining (Dec 31, 2019)

happygoth said:


> My first job I made $3.25 an hour. I'm not going to complain about 13-15 dollars, especially for a job that's as low-stress as this one. Most of the stress I feel is my own fault for having high standards. It would be nice if everyone on my team did things my way, aka the right way, but whatever. I just need to make like Elsa and let it go.



That mindset coupled with corporate greed is why wage stagnation is very real.  There's an entire section of the govt (BLS) with an entire website filled with data speaking to exactly why you should be complaining.

Know your value, if you provide more value than your peers then you should be asking for more or looking elsewhere if told no.  Not doing so will keep wages low because why would employees pay more when they still get people for less?  This is how a free market works, corporations will only pony up when they can no longer attract talent.


----------



## Aredhel (Dec 31, 2019)

Went to actual pastures. Moo. Baa. Cluck.


----------



## Ringwraith917 (Dec 31, 2019)

Maybe I should leave. Target is fine IMO, but its just a job and the constantly fighting\worrying about hours is getting old. I went from 8 years at McDonald's to 14 years at Target. I know I get paid more than most TMs and will be over the bump when it comes but barely. Is it worth it? I get extreme anxiety around big changes.


----------



## Captain Orca (Dec 31, 2019)

Fucking with your paycheck is immoral.  Screwed up TL's intentionally slashing your hours so you become ineligible for health insurance is immoral.  Leave.  It will never change at Target.


----------



## Tessa120 (Dec 31, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> I have a start time that is non-negotiable but we also have a boss that is human if a pipe breaks or if a fender-bender happens on the way to work.
> 
> I do a mishmash of call center and sales and I love it.  Base wage is lower but there's also commission and guaranteed more hours.  Wage paychecks alone, not counting commissions, are higher than my Target checks.
> 
> ...


Wow, how things can change in a month.  Right now I leave my job wanting to cry and feeling completely exhausted every day.

It's not the job or the people.  It's that we are understaffed.  It's supposed to be a department of 6 plus a manager, but it's 2 plus a manager and there's a hiring freeze.  So we each have to do the job of three people.

I hope they hire someone, anyone and train them before February.  My department coworker is due in early March, and babies can decide they are done baking a couple weeks early.


----------



## 16yearswasted (Dec 31, 2019)

It's been almost a year and I still haven't found another job (I had to resign when something traumatic happened at work).

I was making a lot of money, and right now the only income I have is my financial aid for grad school. I'm so scared of losing my house and OUTRIGHT TERRIFIED at the thought of losing my 5 furkids.

I have 22 years retail management experience. I'm trying to go to HR, which was one of my ETL role.

I've applied all over the country. Absolutely nada. I've had two face-to-face interviews. I can't even get a job making $40k less than I was making.

My self-esteem, which was already nonexistent, cannot take it anymore. I went from working eighty to one-hundred hour weeks to bedridden. I had ten series of ECT, which absolutely destroyed my memory; so I worry that if I DO get hired, I won't know what to do.

I'm just so lost..


----------



## Black Sheep 214 (Jan 1, 2020)

16yearswasted said:


> which absolutely destroyed my memory;


Can you get disability from Social Security?


----------



## FlowTeamChick (Jan 1, 2020)

60SecondsRemaining said:


> Know your value, if you provide more value than your peers then you should be asking for more or looking elsewhere if told no. Not doing so will keep wages low because why would employees pay more when they still get people for less? This is how a free market works, corporations will only pony up when they can no longer attract talent.


Yes, but also, know the value of a job that fits your lifestyle and mental health needs.  Lifestyle-wise, I don't need to make a lot of money.  Mental health-wise, I do need a lower stress job than what I used to do.  Target pays way less and my bank account shows it, but I'm not nearly as stressed about work as I was in years past either.  Life is full of trade-offs.

@16yearswasted, I'm sorry to read that you're experiencing such difficulties.  Do you have a support system of family and/or friends around you?  Is there any mental health counseling available to you, perhaps through a community agency or a faith community?  This sounds like a lot to handle all on your own.


----------



## Tessa120 (Jan 1, 2020)

16yearswasted said:


> It's been almost a year and I still haven't found another job (I had to resign when something traumatic happened at work).
> 
> I was making a lot of money, and right now the only income I have is my financial aid for grad school. I'm so scared of losing my house and OUTRIGHT TERRIFIED at the thought of losing my 5 furkids.
> 
> ...


First off, tell your doctor to stick the ECT electrodes up his ass and fire them up. ECT is barbaric and not much better than a lobotomy, and the amount of electricity ran through your brain is like sticking your computer power cord in a 50,000 volt outlet. Think of it this way, they do their best to keep people with seizure disorders from having seizures because seizures are harmful to the brain. So why do they want to cause seizures in people that were viewed as lacking willpower back when the process was invented? There are other, safer options now.

Ironically just a few days ago my boss told me she had a bad concussion once so she wrote everything down that she had to do as soon as she learned she had to do it, and crossed each item off when it was done. She was promoted to manager during that period, which showed how well that system worked.


----------



## jackandcat (Jan 1, 2020)

Tessa120 said:


> Wow, how things can change in a month.  Right now I leave my job wanting to cry and feeling completely exhausted every day..... It's not the job or the people.  It's that we are understaffed.  It's supposed to be a department of 6 plus a manager, but it's 2 plus a manager and there's a hiring freeze.  So we each have to do the job of three people. ...  I hope they hire someone, anyone and train them before February.  My department coworker is due in early March, and babies can decide they are done baking a couple weeks early.


This is a sobering reminder that things in our store - or any workplace - can change quickly from being pretty good to not-so-good.  Companies can and do make abrupt changes with little or no advance notice to employees.  

A long time back, I worked for a small-but-innovative utility-services company which had a bad financial report, followed by a one-day 50% stock-price drop. Within a couple of days, a new CEO who was known as a cut-the-fat hatchet guy came in, replaced many of the other execs, and openly announced they'd be trimming out "poor-performing employees".  The workplace was much more stressful as job losses mounted.  A few months after I left, they were bought out (on the cheap) by a bigger utility-services company and more jobs chopped out.


----------



## Tessa120 (Jan 1, 2020)

If I look at the long term, this is temporary. Everyone knows that there just needs to be more people. We did hire two, and the GM wanted the department to stabilize, since we were a newly created department, and for sales staff to increase and stabilize before more were hired. The newest one quit without notice, but there was a hiring freeze. The next newest rage quit, a situation of "Seriously? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.", and still a hiring freeze. The loss of sales is measurable, there's very little follow up, which is what's losing sales, everyone knows it can't be done, my boss lives in fear of callouts, and she is quick to say she's glad we haven't bailed.

My hope is that December, being the first full month without person #3, will be reviewed and a hiring plan created. My fear is my coworker is due March 6th and babies tend to refuse to adhere to time schedules.


----------



## jackandcat (Jan 7, 2020)

Tessa120 said:


> First off, tell your doctor to stick the ECT electrodes up his ass and fire them up. ECT is barbaric and not much better than a lobotomy, and the amount of electricity ran through your brain is like sticking your computer power cord in a 50,000 volt outlet. Think of it this way, they do their best to keep people with seizure disorders from having seizures because seizures are harmful to the brain. So why do they want to cause seizures in people that were viewed as lacking willpower back when the process was invented? There are other, safer options now...... Ironically just a few days ago my boss told me she had a bad concussion once so she wrote everything down that she had to do as soon as she learned she had to do it, and crossed each item off when it was done. She was promoted to manager during that period, which showed how well that system worked.....


  No personal experience, but an acquaintance from church underwent a series of ECT treatments about 4 years ago with some limited improvement, though she has not resumed ECT since then.  My interactions with my friend, and discussions with their husband, indicate they have not suffered lasting negative impact from ECT treatments but it just wasn't quite enough.  ECT procedures today are much safer than those depicted 45 years ago in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest though your thoughts about unintended long-term health impacts still need to be considered by any patient.


----------



## Tessa120 (Jan 7, 2020)

ECT voltage - up to 450 volts though usually between that number and 225 volts.
Number of volts your brain runs on - 0.07 volts.

How can overloading your brain that much, with intent to cause a grand mal seizure which is not a good thing for the rest of humanity, be a safe and gentle procedure?


----------



## Marcellow (Jan 8, 2020)

I left Target because I was tired of the I’m not ready to be a TL BS and the low pay. I now work at a nonprofit organization where I am off every weekend, work 35-38 hours a week and make substantially more than TLs lmao. I was hired on as a specialist but within a few weeks when my supervisor had job abandoned, I was offered her position because my boss really believed I could do it so now I work as the head program coordinator and we just hired my new subordinate to take my spot. I’m now a manager a month after I started and got a $12k raise with the same schedule.

My life turned around completely 2 months after I left target. Wish I started sooner but the important this is I did it and I have more energy at the gym.

Take that, Target.


----------



## Captain Orca (Jan 8, 2020)

Excellent move Marcellow.  Congratulations.  Target is a very strange place to work.  The work is easy, the management and corporate mandates are simply unbelievable.  The minute they fuck with your money get the hell out.


----------



## sigma7 (Jan 8, 2020)

I left Target about a year and a half ago as an ETL without a plan. Couldn’t deal with the the lunacy of incompetent leaders, constantly changing expectations and communication, and the state of stores due to all of it. Wanted to get out of retail and sort of did...ended up doing HR at an Amazon fulfillment center. Took a bit of a pay cut, but only worked a set 4 days a week and was OT eligible again. Made decent money, but it still wasn’t great.

Left Amazon for a great HR job with a commercial real estate company, salaried again, but with a much better work life balance and a much more manageable workload. My boss and I get along great and I’m treated like a capable employee who can be trusted. Landed this job about a year after leaving Target. I’m now a generalist making more money than I did ever at Target, less stress, more time off, and getting actual continuing education. Benefits are much better too. There is life beyond Target. I thought for so long it’s all I was cut out for. And I was made to believe I wasn’t good enough for any other job.

And it’s kind of a big middle finger to some of my past senior leaders at Target who told me that I wasn’t good enough for an HRBP role and that I wasn’t cutting it as an ETL HR. Like look at me now. Supporting HR operations across the US with my new company!


----------



## happygoth (Jan 8, 2020)

HR seems like it would be a great field to get into and the skills can transfer to so many different businesses. I mean, not many companies _don't _have an HR department.


----------



## sigma7 (Jan 8, 2020)

happygoth said:


> HR seems like it would be a great field to get into and the skills can transfer to so many different businesses. I mean, not many companies _don't _have an HR department.


It was definitely a strategic move when I asked for HR as an ETL role. A lot is the same across all industries, but it’s such a different feel being corporate versus operational HR. There’s a lot I miss about stores, but getting to work on bigger things has been really rewarding.

Even my 10 months with Amazon, while I wasn’t super happy there...it was nice to see a business other than Target.


----------



## redeye58 (Jan 8, 2020)

So good to hear from you, Sigma7.
I had wondered when/if you'd left & was about to call a code yellow.
Glad to hear that you're in a good place


----------



## sigma7 (Jan 9, 2020)

redeye58 said:


> So good to hear from you, Sigma7.
> I had wondered when/if you'd left & was about to call a code yellow.
> Glad to hear that you're in a good place


I still pop in here and lurk from time to time just to see how things are going. It’s tough to see so many vets have left and it’s hard to hear some of the stories of how things work (or don’t) now. Target has always had issues with systems and process inefficiencies, but I honestly feel like things have just gotten so out of whack in recent years. I do still think “modernization” is good at its core idea - I like hospitality, sales culture, having DBO’s; however, these initiatives MUST be funded with payroll and training resources to be truly successful. I just didn’t feel like that was the case in either of my groups.

All that said, TBR (and even ol’ Spot) will always hold a special place with me. This community helped me become the person/worker I am today.


----------



## Marcellow (Jan 10, 2020)

Captain Orca said:


> Excellent move Marcellow.  Congratulations.  Target is a very strange place to work.  The work is easy, the management and corporate mandates are simply unbelievable.  The minute they fuck with your money get the hell out.


 
Absolutely! I’m glad they thought I wasn’t ready for a TL position, it got me looking for better opportunities. Funny how my new boss thought I was very capable but Target didn’t because I’m not extroverted.


----------



## RedcardReba (Jan 17, 2020)

Tessa120 said:


> ECT voltage - up to 450 volts though usually between that number and 225 volts.
> Number of volts your brain runs on - 0.07 volts.
> 
> How can overloading your brain that much, with intent to cause a grand mal seizure which is not a good thing for the rest of humanity, be a safe and gentle procedure?


Are you a doctor?


----------



## Tessa120 (Jan 17, 2020)

No I'm not. But math doesn't lie. And I've lost count of the people I've networked with who we didn't hear from for a long time and it's because they forgot basic living skills for weeks. And a good friend whose son had a seizure disorder from a young age told me that seizures cause brain damage and that's why they were treating him so aggressively.

And remember, doctors thought lobotomy was a good treatment for depression.


----------



## 16yearswasted (Jan 23, 2020)

Sorry, been too much to reply. Wanted to thank y'all SO MUCH for the love!!

@Black Sheep, Thanks SO MUCH, I haven't tried. I know I would still lose house and furkids.

@FlowTeamChick , thanks SO MUCH. I stopped going to my therapists because I realized just how much they had screwed me. My family stands by me. One former peer checks up on me by message at least weekly. My best friend from high school texts me on holidays. Everyone else has given up on me and faded away. When I was working, everyone told me how much they loved me, adored me and couldn't imagine things without me. My first STL once tried to get me to stop working so many hours by telling me, "If you drop dead of a heart attack, I'll cry, I'll go to funeral. But the next day I'll ask (DTL) for your replacement." One was such a lie and the latter so true.

And yes, @Tessa120 is ABSOLUTELY right. One of the behavioral hospital "assigned" ECT as a release. When I went for the advising session he never mentioned memory loss. When I brought it up during my ten sessions, he ASSURED me that it was temporary and would return. It's been more than a year and a half and nope. When I was still seeing my psych nurse practitioner, she asked if he was following up. I told her I had not had any contact with him since my last session. She said that he was supposed to contact me regularly for follow up.

Just praying for better times ahead. I invested a lot of money I don't have in a career coach and I also have an interview with an oil company next week.

Thanks again, guys!! Your support means the world!!


----------



## Black Sheep 214 (Jan 23, 2020)

16yearswasted said:


> I also have an interview with an oil company next week.


Good luck with your interview!


----------



## 16yearswasted (Jan 23, 2020)

Thanks SO SO MUCH, @Black Sheep 214!!😍🤩😍


----------



## Hardlinesmaster (Jan 23, 2020)

@16yearswasted, don't give up. We are here to support you & always listening. You don't need a career coach. Your local, state or county services offers job info services to help you get that job. Check it out.


----------



## 16yearswasted (Jan 23, 2020)

Thanks SO MUCH for always making my day, @Hardlinesmaster!! 

I had actually been auto enrolled in a "transition program" when I left Spot. I attended all the webinar and did most of the activities. However, it seemed more about preparing me for the job search than actually trying to help me find a job.

My sisters and others have had luck with a headhunter, but I can't find any (at least, if I'm supposed to find a local one).

Pretty sure it's too late for a refund with the coach, but I'll definitely search for local and state services!!

Thanks again for ALL you do!!😍🤩


----------



## Tessa120 (Jan 23, 2020)

Look at state agencies. My state has an agency that is geared towards getting people jobs, from resume writing to partnering with businesses for an up to date job openings website, which people can use to apply at any computer,  whether personal or at a branch.


----------



## Tarshitsucks (Jan 23, 2020)

16yearswasted said:


> Sorry, been too much to reply. Wanted to thank y'all SO MUCH for the love!!
> 
> @Black Sheep, Thanks SO MUCH, I haven't tried. I know I would still lose house and furkids.
> 
> ...


Good luck I really hope you get it so you don't lose everything.


----------



## Tessa120 (Jan 27, 2020)

I'm all but done.  I'm writing my resume.  With what they've done to my pay this month, I'll be lucky if I can meet my share of the bills and I won't have anything to donate to other shared bills much less a little me money.

The only thing making me hesitate is that my husband is guaranteed losing his job late March, and he has diabetes and I have mental illness.  Right now the wise idea is for me to stay put until he gets a job and insurance kicks in, and then he puts me on until I get a job with benefits.  But if I'm going to be struggling with the new pay now, adding him to my insurance when his job ends will be ruinous.

I honestly don't know what to do.


----------



## 16yearswasted (Jan 27, 2020)

@Tessa120, I wish I had good advice for you. You are in my thoughts and prayers and I can't wait to see an updated post that everything turned out great!


----------



## Tessa120 (Jan 27, 2020)

A bit of reflection, probably first step is see if they change things again in the next two weeks.  Second step is to renegotiate pay, since my coworker feels the same.  Third step would be to look for a different position within the same company.  The company's not bad, but their tenth or twelve procedure change means my commissions will drop down to almost nothing, and right now it's between one-third to one-half my take home.


----------

