# 15 dolla make u holla (in despair)



## can't touch this (Jan 10, 2019)

I have some predictions, y’all. Here’s what I’m predicting we have to look forward to when $15 an hour hits.

- Literally nobody who isn’t a TL or above will get 40, ever, even during the busiest part of Q4. No matter how busy it gets or how well the store is doing on sales, the rule will be WORK YOUR EXACT SCHEDULE AND GO HOME. At stores where leadership doesn’t already call you out on the walkie when they get a Work Past Schedule alert for you on their Zebra, it will start happening. DTLs will make it very clear during walks that leaders who allow overstaying will be given the boot.

- Tying into the above, they will probably fuck with the way flex hours work so that payroll expenditure can be slashed by at least half. Negative flex hours will be brought back very soon.

- A new rule will come down from corporate to all HR teams: ABSOLUTELY NO REPLACING CALLOUTS EVER! You’re in HR and you call someone in anyway...guess what happens! Also, R.I.P. the swap board.

- The Cart Attendant role will disappear and salesfloor TMs will be expected to get carts when called. 

- DCs will scale back OT or more likely eliminate it altogether. 

- They might even go after the PMT role and try to contract it out, or at least turn it into a salaried position.

- “WHY DIDN’T YOU GET 25 UBOATS PUSHED IN 45 MINUTES ON A BUSY SATURDAY EVENING?!? FIFTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR!!!!!! REEEEEEEEEEE!!!”


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## Dead and Khaki (Jan 10, 2019)

_- They might even go after the PMT role and try to contract it out, or at least turn it into a salaried position._

All PMT, AP and HR duties will be owned by sales floor.


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## Ringwraith917 (Jan 10, 2019)

If everyone is a leader, who are they leading?


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## Panda13 (Jan 10, 2019)

Ringwraith917 said:


> If everyone is a leader, who are they leading?


The red shirts drinking Starbucks and group texting.


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## qmosqueen (Jan 10, 2019)




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## can't touch this (Jan 10, 2019)

^Mr. Greg Curtner is most likely one of those people who think workers getting paid a decent wage is literally communism, and just wants to snark triumphantly when those who messed with muh free market by wanting to get paid decently get their just desserts. He is unironically hoping every single Millennial gets laid off and replaced with a robot so he can say “haha that’s what you get for being greedy you pinko commies”


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## NKG (Jan 10, 2019)

Old timers will be forced to retire because the salary cap will become smaller.


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## SnowWhiteOfAnA (Jan 10, 2019)

Dead and Khaki said:


> _- They might even go after the PMT role and try to contract it out, or at least turn it into a salaried position._
> 
> All PMT, AP and HR duties will be owned by sales floor.


My store has been there before 😣


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## band_rules16 (Jan 10, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> - “WHY DIDN’T YOU GET 25 UBOATS PUSHED IN 45 MINUTES ON A BUSY SATURDAY EVENING?!? FIFTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR!!!!!! REEEEEEEEEEE!!!”



REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I hope I'm out of there before this happens...


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## Antennae (Jan 10, 2019)

Leave a token force of $15/hr TMs but contract out the remaining TM jobs at lower rates with the promise of "If you work hard we will move you over."


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## Backroom81 (Jan 10, 2019)

Antennae said:


> Leave a token force of $15/hr TMs but contract out the remaining TM jobs at lower rates with the promise of "If you work hard we will move you over."



They were going to cut hours anyways.  The $15 is a distraction and a scapegoat.


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## can't touch this (Jan 11, 2019)

The last bullet point in my list is going to be the operative rule at all stores eventually, that much I am 100% certain of. $15 an hour will be invoked heavily by leadership as the go-to response for everything. If you thought “unrealistic expectations” were bad, try “expections that defy the laws of physics.” 

I’m already seeing a preview of this lately, because my ETL-log has been keeping a daily list of the trailer with carton quantities by custom block, and has expectations about how long it should take to push each aisle according to how many cartons are there. As expected, they completely forgot to factor in guest interactions despite harping on guest service at every other opportunity, huh wow didn’t see that coming. It will get to a point where you will basically need the ability to teleport yourself around the store in order to be successful with those expectations.

Luckily for me, I am known to the Cherokees as “He-Who-Can-Be-In-Many-Places-At-Once” as my powerful medicine can alter the flow of time, but everyone else is basically screwed.


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## Backroom81 (Jan 11, 2019)

TM's once they experience the failed experiment that was Viper Modernization:


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## Not My Name (Jan 11, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> ^Mr. Greg Curtner is most likely one of those people who think workers getting paid a decent wage is literally communism, and just wants to snark triumphantly when those who messed with muh free market by wanting to get paid decently get their just desserts. He is unironically hoping every single Millennial gets laid off and replaced with a robot so he can say “haha that’s what you get for being greedy you pinko commies”



Hey guess what?  Automation, machines and robots are coming to replace you either way but the $15 narrative push is just going to expedite the process.  Your understanding of economics is petulant and highly ignorant at best.

You don’t deserve $15 an hour to sell toilet paper and toothpaste.  I’m sorry that your parents and schools and the media have failed you but that’s the truth.

If you ever for one second believed that companies were just going to raise their base pay to $15 an hour and just take it on the chin, your naivety is out of control.  It seems like you just now figured out what the result of this wage increase was going to be.  Gee, it only took you what?  2 years?  lol.

I can sum up your entire problem in just one sentence:  You don’t understand that life isn’t fair and that life doesn’t care the least about your feelings.


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## Ringwraith917 (Jan 11, 2019)

@can't touch this get a stopwatch. Keep track of how long you spent on guest service. Keep a log of times and dates. That way you have proof if it's ever a real issue.
@Not My Name I've seen this with RFID scanning. Fewer people doing the job of daily softlines research. I'm still getting my hours though cause I adapted and was the best at it.

Be amazing. You'll get your hours. Be ineffective, you'll get cut.


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## can't touch this (Jan 11, 2019)

The whole point of this thread was to illustrate just how $15 will NOT be a free lunch, despite the fact that Target voluntarily opted to raise their own internal minimum independent of any Federal minimum wage hike, and how that will affect daily workflow and staff levels. Also, 2020 is a year from now...seems as good a time as any to make a thread.



Not My Name said:


> I can sum up your entire problem in just one sentence:  You don’t understand that life isn’t fair and that life doesn’t care the least about your feelings.



I’m 30, if I hadn’t figured this out by now I would be in serious trouble. Your internet psychometry skills are lacking, don’t quit your day job.


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## Backroom81 (Jan 11, 2019)

Not My Name said:


> If you ever for one second believed that companies were just going to raise their base pay to $15 an hour and just take it on the chin, your naivety is out of control.  It seems like you just now figured out what the result of this wage increase was going to be.



The hours were going to be cut anyways.  $15 is just how they act like they're being progressive at the same time.



Not My Name said:


> I’m sorry that your parents and schools and the media have failed you but that’s the truth.


Parents, school, and media fail because they aren't telling anybody the actual truth.  The computers that are taking the jobs aren't coming as a result of $15/hr.  They are coming because they cost a tiny fraction of that and they can replace a LOT of jobs that required skills that were worth a hell of a lot more than $15.

At my job alone, a single computer and software that costs ~$700 per year condensed 3 bookkeepers down to 1.  That's two jobs, with a market average of $40,000/year and required at least an associate degree with primarily business math courses, gone because we have software that can do it for ~$.34/hr ($700 / 52 / 40).

And it's far from just bookkeeping.  The business I work for serves the printing industry.  In the early 1970s, a press operator was paid between $6-$10/hr.  Adjusting for inflation, that comes out to ~$36-$60/hr in today's money.  At the time, a standard press line had a crew of ~5 operators doing setup, startup, ink adjustment during press runs, maintenance, and a myriad of other tasks.  Today, automation has reduced that down to 1-2 operators and the average wage is ~$20/hr.  So not only has automation killed <60% of the jobs, what's left is being paid barely over half of the low end of the wages they earned 40 years ago.

And it's just going to get worse.  Current AI is able to monitor processes and figure out how to automate tasks on their own.  We're on the verge of seeing a LOT of jobs disappear over the next couple of decades.  It's not going to happen because of $15/hr, it's going to happen because of $.34/hr.


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## RedcardReba (Jan 11, 2019)

I don't think it's all that complicated.  15 in Exchange for hours and benefits.  Automation in exchange for bodies hired.


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## seasonaldude (Jan 11, 2019)

We are still a long ways away from seeing most Target jobs disappear because of automation. The technology isn't even close to being where it needs to be to replace workers who perform a lot of different manual tasks. Robots can't stock the shelves. They aren't even close to figuring that out.

Automation is coming for the people who do simple repetitive tasks. A robot can be built to do one thing over and over again. It's also coming for the people who do lots of repetitive, but ultimately simple mental tasks. They're coming for the people who make $60K plus a year, not for the plebes making $15/hr (which by the way is nowhere near generous Mr. Scrooge). Thousands of articles have been written about how within the next few years delivery drivers will all lose their jobs because we'll have driverless cars. Slight problem with that. They might be able to teach the car to drive and get it legally approved for safety. But, getting the product from the car to a person's door, well, that's a bit more of a challenge.

Anyway, as with all predictions of future technology, where's my flying car and luxury apartment on the moon? We were supposed to have those by now...


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## Backroom81 (Jan 11, 2019)

seasonaldude said:


> We are still a long ways away from seeing most Target jobs disappear because of automation.


Not directly but those $60k/yr jobs are people that shop at Target.  Take that away and watch even more payroll and positions disappear.  Now factor in millions of people looking for jobs elsewhere and that's going to drag the price of labor down even worse than the first wave of automation did in the 70s and 80s.

The worst part is, most of this won't do be done by mass layoffs either.  It will happen by attrition while idiots keep yelling SEE WHAT $15 DID!!




> Thousands of articles have been written about how within the next few years delivery drivers will all lose their jobs because we'll have driverless cars. Slight problem with that. They might be able to teach the car to drive and get it legally approved for safety. But, getting the product from the car to a person's door, well, that's a bit more of a challenge.


Personally, I don't see delivery drivers going away for driverless cars.  The trucking industry might lose long haul work on interstates but most of that is independent anyways.  A logistics company would have to decide between maintaining their own fleet or keeping humans around.


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## seasonaldude (Jan 11, 2019)

Backroom81 said:


> Not directly but those $60k/yr jobs are people that shop at Target. Take that away and watch even more payroll and positions disappear. Now factor in millions of people looking for jobs elsewhere and that's going to drag the price of labor down even worse than the first wave of automation did in the 70s and 80s.
> 
> The worst part is, most of this won't do be done by mass layoffs either. It will happen by attrition while idiots keep yelling SEE WHAT $15 DID!!



I actually think Target will be fine. Despite the idiots in leadership they've positioned themselves well if nothing else then by being one of the last surviving big players in general retail. People will still need to buy things. They'll have less money to do it with so they'll be looking for cheaper products. This is where Target's cheap store brands come in. Shit like Smartly and Up & Up are where the money will come from.

In reality, despite people spending less at a time this will result in more overall money for places like Target. It's one of the dirty little secrets of being poor in America. There's a hidden tax on the poor and broke. There have been studies on it. People with less money end up paying more overall for things that everyone has to buy repeatedly because they can't afford to buy in bulk and wait for sales. When you need toilet paper, you need toilet paper. If all you can afford is a four pack of cardboard Target brand, then you'll pay less now. But, end up paying more overtime than someone who buys a huge pack of Quilted Northern.

Will Target cut more jobs? Yeah, probably. But, that won't be because of automation. It will just be a continuation of the trend in the business world since the late '70s when overall corporate profits in the US plummeted to almost nothing and a new model started being used that views the primary purpose of corporations as nothing more than returning value on shareholders' investments. Now overall corporate profits have reached a historical high point and keep going up while wages remain relatively stagnant. That's not automation. It's greed and people for politicians who have no real interest in reigning in the greed.


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## BoxCutter (Jan 11, 2019)

seasonaldude said:


> Thousands of articles have been written about how within the next few years delivery drivers will all lose their jobs because we'll have driverless cars. Slight problem with that. They might be able to teach the car to drive and get it legally approved for safety. But, getting the product from the car to a person's door, well, that's a bit more of a challenge.



Continental looks to robot dogs to deliver your packages


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## seasonaldude (Jan 11, 2019)

BoxCutter said:


> Continental looks to robot dogs to deliver your packages



Four minutes to deliver one small package from car to door and back traveling only a few feet across a previously known path? FedEx drivers can still sleep quite comfortably at night. No need to lay awake worrying about the future of their jobs.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Jan 11, 2019)

People will be stealing the packages _and_ the robot dogs...😂🙄😂


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## can't touch this (Jan 11, 2019)

So I decided a long ass time ago that I would rather stay at $12-13 an hour in exchange for 40 hours most weeks. Those hours at that pay are decent where I live (which is cheap as fuck, relatively speaking). A few years back I did okay on $10.80 x 40 at one of my old jobs. Unfortunately even asking for that is beyond the pale these days. Even these little local businesses that can’t afford automation and lack the ability to implement it have dumped the 40 hour week faster than you can say Obamacare. I may be too r*t*rded to understand economics but something fishy is going on here. 

Personally I want more bread because my landlord and car insurance company want a whole bunch of it, not because I think passing HBA items over a scanner or pushing a row of carts is galaxy brain work. Doesn’t even need to be $15 an hour, just actual full-time.


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## Aredhel (Jan 11, 2019)

If you think the $12 an hour expectations are ridiculous imagine $15.


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## seasonaldude (Jan 11, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> So I decided a long ass time ago that I would rather stay at $12-13 an hour in exchange for 40 hours most weeks. Those hours at that pay are decent where I live (which is cheap as fuck, relatively speaking). A few years back I did okay on $10.80 x 40 at one of my old jobs. Unfortunately even asking for that is beyond the pale these days. Even these little local businesses that can’t afford automation and lack the ability to implement it have dumped the 40 hour week faster than you can say Obamacare. I may be too r*t*rded to understand economics but something fishy is going on here.
> 
> Personally I want more bread because my landlord and car insurance company want a whole bunch of it, not because I think passing HBA items over a scanner or pushing a row of carts is galaxy brain work. Doesn’t even need to be $15 an hour, just actual full-time.



Word to the motherfucker.


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## Llamanatee (Jan 11, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> I have some predictions, y’all. Here’s what I’m predicting we have to look forward to when $15 an hour hits.
> 
> - Literally nobody who isn’t a TL or above will get 40, ever, even during the busiest part of Q4. No matter how busy it gets or how well the store is doing on sales, the rule will be WORK YOUR EXACT SCHEDULE AND GO HOME. At stores where leadership doesn’t already call you out on the walkie when they get a Work Past Schedule alert for you on their Zebra, it will start happening. DTLs will make it very clear during walks that leaders who allow overstaying will be given the boot.
> 
> ...


Sales floor already gets the carts at my store.
Cart attendants are scheduled only for special occasions.


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## Times Up (Jan 11, 2019)

no nix nein said:


> Sales floor already gets the carts at my store


At my store they're busy on the lanes so they can't go grab the carts.


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## redeye58 (Jan 11, 2019)

Not My Name said:


> You don’t deserve $15 an hour to sell toilet paper and toothpaste.


Nobody 'deserves' it but, when workers are scarce to come by & you can't import them, you'll pay $15 an hour to try & get someone to show up for work.


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## unknown (Jan 11, 2019)

Not My Name said:


> Hey guess what?  Automation, machines and robots are coming to replace you either way but the $15 narrative push is just going to expedite the process.  Your understanding of economics is petulant and highly ignorant at best.
> 
> You don’t deserve $15 an hour to sell toilet paper and toothpaste.  I’m sorry that your parents and schools and the media have failed you but that’s the truth.
> 
> ...



And Brian doesn't deserve his pay either.


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## can't touch this (Jan 11, 2019)

Was he the motherfucker at Pepsi who made them discontinue real sugar vanilla Pepsi


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## Kartman (Jan 11, 2019)

So who gets the carts?


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## Antennae (Jan 11, 2019)

RoboKartman9000


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## OrderSickUp (Jan 11, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> Was he the motherfucker at Pepsi who made them discontinue real sugar vanilla Pepsi



I have no idea if he was at the company then, but since I'm still bitter about discontinuing Pepsi Blue, I'll blame him for that 😢


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## PackAndCry (Jan 11, 2019)

As if the hour cuts wouldn't have happened anyway.  If they think they can get away with cutting hours to save money, they'll do it whether we're getting paid $15/hr or $5/hr.


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## NPC (Jan 11, 2019)

Target is going to hire robots....and dump new unrealistic expectations on them too. Then the AI will rise up against the humans because of Target's torture. Target will cause the singularity.


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## NPC (Jan 11, 2019)

The new, average, Target Team Member...


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## Times Up (Jan 11, 2019)

Sloth said:


> Guests absolutely hate SCO at my store and avoid it like the plague. "What? You want me to ring my own items up?!?! And bag them myself?!?!?!?!"



*THIS*


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## unknown (Jan 12, 2019)

PassinTime said:


> *THIS*



When I left Friday at 10 am, the only lit checkouts were SCO. Lanes and lanes of cash registers, no cashiers. But they had a line at the SCOs. How is that okay?


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## Frontlanegirl (Jan 12, 2019)

unknown said:


> When I left Friday at 10 am, the only lit checkouts were SCO. Lanes and lanes of cash registers, no cashiers. But they had a line at the SCOs. How is that okay?


The company directive is to put the guest first, yet they don’t.


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## GlobalTL123 (Jan 12, 2019)

Sloth said:


> Yeah, I dunno. The only real thing they can try and automate is the logistics side of things. Guests absolutely hate SCO at my store and avoid it like the plague. "What? You want me to ring my own items up?!?! And bag them myself?!?!?!?!"
> 
> Given the state of our DCs, I don't think that automation is coming anytime soon. The state of the freight we receive is an absolute joke. Why are we getting transition so early? And why isn't it palletized? You know we're just going to palletize it and put it in the steel anyway, so why not save us the hassle? Stores should come before DCs, because we're the guest-facing side and we have much less space to work with. You make a dozen DCs do some extra work OR make almost 2,000 stores do some extra work -- which is going to cost less, eh?
> 
> Don't need to go to college to figure that much out, or high school for that matter.



On the corporate career site there is a video about working at the DC. They talk about how their work is driven by the Target guests. It is a good laugh. It is more like they are driven by filling trucks and repacks with crap!


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## phibot (Jan 12, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> - They might even go after the PMT role..turn it into a salaried position.


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## Fix It (Jan 12, 2019)

6/10 rating on rants

1/10 rating on useful discussion

$15/hr entry level is stupid. 

Sleep in the grave you dig.

If you want to make a decent paycheck then  leverage the skills you have to find a place that will afford you. Wanting $15 an hour for following basic instruction is high key lazy. Everyone who wanted more is getting more, for a lot less. Have fun with that.


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## RedcardReba (Jan 12, 2019)

Target wants good part time workers.  It's not a place for those needing full time.  Great for homemakers, students, retirees, and second jobs.


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## unknown (Jan 12, 2019)

RedcardReba said:


> Target wants good part time workers.  It's not a place for those needing full time.  Great for homemakers, students, retirees, and second jobs.



Kind of like the CEO, right? He's part time. He spends part of the time wrecking the stores, part of the time screwing the guests, and spends the rest of the time lining his bank accounts.


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## redcharmander10 (Jan 12, 2019)

Fuck corporate greed and corporate America in general. We need COMMUNISM.


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## commiecorvus (Jan 12, 2019)

RedcardReba said:


> Target wants good part time workers.  It's not a place for those needing full time.  Great for homemakers, students, retirees, and second jobs.




The frustrating thing about that is there are a lot of people especially people with disabilities who want full time jobs but who can only get jobs in places like Target.
They need to make a living but are under employed and not being paid jack.
They need that $15.00 an hour.
We have people who are high functioning autism, who have gone to college but can't get past the interview stage and wind up with jobs well below what they have the skills for.
The unemployment rate for people with autism and a college education is 80%, so the idea of 'bettering yourself to move up is just mouth music.
And of those who are employed at least half are underemployed.

Paying a living wage is the least a company can do.
Giving decent hours is another.
Being aware of people who are neurodiverse and making the appropriate changes to your hiring practices would be the best thing.


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## Tainted Kool aid (Jan 12, 2019)

unknown said:


> Kind of like the CEO, right? He's part time. He spends part of the time wrecking the stores, part of the time screwing the guests, and spends the rest of the time lining his bank accounts.


That's how mafia works


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## can't touch this (Jan 12, 2019)

Tainted Kool aid said:


> That's how mafia works



Upvoted for memetic reference


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## can't touch this (Jan 12, 2019)

Fix It said:


> $15/hr entry level is stupid.



Personally I’m a fan of how Australia does it, with different wage tiers according to age. If you’re under 18 you make $8.00, under 21 you make $14 and 21 and up make something like $22. Of course, Straya is an entirely different country so that wouldn’t necessarily carry over, but at least with their model businesses don’t have to pay a double digit wage to some tweenie who’s still living at home, while adults who actually need that schmoney are able to get it.


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## Times Up (Jan 12, 2019)

RedcardReba said:


> Target wants good part time workers.  It's not a place for those needing full time.  Great for homemakers, students, retirees, and second jobs.



Yet Target wants open availability from these same people.


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## Llamanatee (Jan 12, 2019)

PassinTime said:


> Yet Target wants open availability from these same people.


Yep yep.  I changed my availability because I just had a baby and because my partner makes more and has a guaranteed 40hrs a week, I’m going to stay home most of the time and watch my little human.  Target doesn’t give me a set schedule, set hours, or a guarantee of hours and childcare would cost me a little more than 2 checks if I go off the assumption of getting 35 hours, which I know I won’t.  Annnnnyways, when I told Hr my new availability I was told not to expect to get scheduled all those days.  Pffft, whatever.  If I had open availability I probably would still get scheduled the same anyways.  Lucky my partner has a stable job or I’d be fucked.  

Also I make the coveted 15$/hr.  My check amounts haven’t gone up in years and actually have gone down because hours.  I got more on maternity leave because of how much I worked at the beginning of the year, and because they let me use vacation time over my average hours.

Anyways, once I clear up my debt I think I am going to transfer to a closer store and limit my availability more.


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## can't touch this (Jan 12, 2019)

Ah so the company pretends to be progressive while fucking you over, it’s almost like we reached this same conclusion over in the Pronoun badge thread which was tragically locked :^) Bummer.


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## RedcardReba (Jan 12, 2019)

15 is a long time away.  13 next.. .and then I guess 2 raises in 2020?

Just my 2 cents.  I think Target will continue to drill down on stores, do more with fewer people, until they are solid with online sales and keeping pace on growth.  Retail changed.  We will see a lot of growing  pains.

Again, my 2 cents.  When I started at my store, I knew it as a shopper.  I never would pop into target.  Too slow.  Now with order pu and sco, it's easier.  Also, I never liked the cashiers.  Not professional enough.  I saw why when I went to work.  No training in basics, like bagging.  Way too many store policy rules and processes with 15 min training?  

First thing I noticed, too, was how slow staff walks.  I'm older than most, but dang, they are turtles!  And I can tell you the 4 managers who know what they are doing, how to do it, and actually do it.  The rest focus on blaming or petty stuff.

So yeah, it's going to change.  Personally, I  thought they were overstaffed.  I still could cut several slots out and still deliver for guests.  Beauty stands around all day.  It's ridiculous.   

I suspect that hustling for hours won't be attractive to quite a few people.  But that's what they will have to do.  Keep the ones who actually do most of the work fairly happy.  Don't worry about the rest.

It's gotta happen, or Target won't survive this retail tsunami.


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## Aredhel (Jan 12, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> The frustrating thing about that is there are a lot of people especially people with disabilities who want full time jobs but who can only get jobs in places like Target.
> They need to make a living but are under employed and not being paid jack.
> They need that $15.00 an hour.
> We have people who are high functioning autism, who have gone to college but can't get past the interview stage and wind up with jobs well below what they have the skills for.
> ...


The yellow vests are right around the corner.


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## Tessa120 (Jan 12, 2019)

Fix It said:


> If you want to make a decent paycheck then  leverage the skills you have to find a place that will afford you. Wanting $15 an hour for following basic instruction is high key lazy. Everyone who wanted more is getting more, for a lot less. Have fun with that.



Your title says PMT.  Unless there's something special the PMT does that I missed, then you're the same as the rest of us.  Simply doing routine upkeep in the home means learning hand and power tools, learning how to paint walls so they are pretty and the floor isn't painted, drywall patching and replacement, fixing electrical glitches or bad wiring in a way that would satisfy code (if they ever checked), same with plumbing, same with interior renovations such as removing or adding walls, same with concrete pouring and crack fixing, figuring out how to troubleshoot and fix motors in all sorts of appliances, etc.  Probably 90% of the people here can do what you can simply because when the electrical outlet went bad they called an older relative and asked how to safely take the entire outlet out and put in a new one or how to properly fix a pipe that just busted and just kept adding to that knowledge every little home upkeep quibble.


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## skrepo1977 (Jan 12, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> The frustrating thing about that is there are a lot of people especially people with disabilities who want full time jobs but who can only get jobs in places like Target.
> They need to make a living but are under employed and not being paid jack.
> They need that $15.00 an hour.
> We have people who are high functioning autism, who have gone to college but can't get past the interview stage and wind up with jobs well below what they have the skills for.
> ...


Actually people with disabilities are not under minimum pay requirements. You can pay them less than minimum wage. It is a loophole in Federal law that allows companies to issue waivers in order encourage their employment. Only three states require companies within their domain to pay the minimum wage regardless.


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## commiecorvus (Jan 12, 2019)

skrepo1977 said:


> Actually people with disabilities are not under minimum pay requirements. You can pay them less than minimum wage. It is a loophole in Federal law that allows companies to issue waivers in order encourage their employment. Only three states require companies within their domain to pay the minimum wage regardless.




There are certain circumstances where you can do that, it's called supported employment.
It dates back to the days when rather than do real rehab they would stick people with disabilities in broom factories.
There are even companies that pay people with disabilities in gift cards.
It is a horrible, dated concept and fuck anyone who does it.
On the positive side
Federal contractors have to pay the federal minimum wage.
Alaska, California and two other states have made the practice illegal.


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## commiecorvus (Jan 12, 2019)

Aredhel said:


> The yellow vests are right around the corner.




I'm beginning to think the French Protesters might have the right idea.


----------



## seasonaldude (Jan 12, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> I'm beginning to think the French Protesters might have the right idea.



You're just now beginning to think that? Where have you been?


----------



## Tessa120 (Jan 12, 2019)

skrepo1977 said:


> Actually people with disabilities are not under minimum pay requirements. You can pay them less than minimum wage. It is a loophole in Federal law that allows companies to issue waivers in order encourage their employment. Only three states require companies within their domain to pay the minimum wage regardless.


That would be like half of the US then.  Except for what Commie said, people who are disabled get the same pay.  Would you really want your employer paying you less because you wear glasses and justifying it because you are sight disabled?


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## Fix It (Jan 12, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> Your title says PMT.  Unless there's something special the PMT does that I missed, then you're the same as the rest of us.  Simply doing routine upkeep in the home means learning hand and power tools, learning how to paint walls so they are pretty and the floor isn't painted, drywall patching and replacement, fixing electrical glitches or bad wiring in a way that would satisfy code (if they ever checked), same with plumbing, same with interior renovations such as removing or adding walls, same with concrete pouring and crack fixing, figuring out how to troubleshoot and fix motors in all sorts of appliances, etc.  Probably 90% of the people here can do what you can simply because when the electrical outlet went bad they called an older relative and asked how to safely take the entire outlet out and put in a new one or how to properly fix a pipe that just busted and just kept adding to that knowledge every little home upkeep quibble.



Keep telling yourself that. Upkeep of a multimillion dollar 140,000 square foot asset and the hundreds of assets inside and outside of it isn’t as simple as asking Uncle Dave how to change an outlet. Repair is the easy part of our jobs most of the time. We’re a lot more involved in behind the scenes operations than you’d think. Sure there are awful PMTs out there who only fix stuff, and it’s glaringly obvious when you enter a store with someone like that.


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## Tessa120 (Jan 12, 2019)

Okay, the job description is a little light on Target.com.  What do you do that requires advanced schooling that can't be picked up in any other way?


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## NKG (Jan 13, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> Okay, the job description is a little light on Target.com.  What do you do that requires advanced schooling that can't be picked up in any other way?



Tell me how you learn electrical or plumbing without doing those jobs without apprenticeship?


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## Tessa120 (Jan 13, 2019)

Electrical, I called my FIL who is an electrical engineer and is a firm believer in doing it yourself rather than paying someone.  He talked me through wiring a brand new light, replacing an entire outlet that had gone bad, showed me how to run new outlets and new light and how they would hook into the breaker box.  He also picked up plumbing from somewhere and talked me through some of that.  My dad had to rewire the box that ran from the electric company's lines to the house lines to be up to code before the electric company would replace a broken wire.

I was good with numbers and budgeting a check book and had an office procedures course in high school so my new husband who worked in construction supply talked to his boss who talked to one of the subcontractors and I got a bookkeeping job.  He wanted to get a class A contractor's license than he had, dragged me along to the course, and then about 20 minutes into the course he got a phone call and had to leave and told me to stay and take really good notes so I could brief him before the test.  I regurgitated the information well enough that he got that license, so definitely picked up a lot of stuff about carpentry there.  Add in that a couple of my husband's friends were framers, and they walked us all through the practical side when we were building stuff for sci fi/fantasy conventions.  One also showed the ropes in repairing a leak in the roof of the house that we were at.  Also part of that bookkeeping, I learned a lot of codes and where to find out how to meet them.  My husband working in construction supply, he made sure I learned how to use power tools because he thought they were cool as shit.  Oh, and everything we install in the house has to have heavy duty fasteners, so I had to learn how to properly use them.

Same FIL, he rode our asses hard to repair our own dryer and our own washer when they both broke.  He also showed how he ripped out a fireplace and ran piping lines in its place for a water heater, and then capped that off and walked me through doing it, because we were seriously considering ripping out a cabinet and putting in a dishwasher and we would need to lay the lines in.  Alas, the space sizing didn't work, but I got enough of the basics down and again, that framer bookkeeping job taught me where to go for information and who to talk to for help when that information falls short.

At this point in life, when family or friends need something fixed, fingers get pointed at me.  It's been a few years since I was taking a saw to wood, but the memory is there, the math is most certainly still there, and how to find what I don't know and follow those directions is still there, and I love using hand tools.

Sure, I'm not a master electrician or master plumber.  But the qualifications that I saw for PMT didn't call for either.  I'm sure a lot of it is OJT, not a host of degrees and certifications before Target hires.  I'm also sure that the pay rate for trained electricians and plumbers is far higher than what Target offers a PMT.  Back in the day I felt that if I wanted to deal with miserable outdoor working conditions and some degree of harassment from construction workers of the male persuasion I could have done well in pursuing an electrician apprenticeship and the local shipyard was always hiring, but outdoor, yuck.

Knowledge and practice is not limited to formal schooling.  A lot of knowledge comes from being creative with what education you do have and seeking opportunities to practice what you learn.  I hate the teeny backwater village that I'm currently in as there are just no jobs in my field ever posted on job hiring sites within the radius I can commute, I hate that my husband was transferred to this teeny backwater village, and I hate that I had to leave a very nice job that paid incredibly well and had me on the track to working in the escrow department, which would have opened the doors to some really, really well paying bank jobs, that I got simply by taking an office procedures class in high school and applying it creatively later in life.


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## Kompa (Jan 13, 2019)

I've said this before and I'll say it again. What's 15 bucks and hour when you only get 17 hours a week


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## Ringwraith917 (Jan 13, 2019)

Kompa said:


> I've said this before and I'll say it again. What's 15 bucks and hour when you only get 17 hours a week


About as good as 32 hours/wk at $7/hr.


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## Backroom81 (Jan 13, 2019)

Ringwraith917 said:


> About as good as 32 hours/wk at $7/hr.



32 hours a week @ $7.50 got you health insurance.


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## Times Up (Jan 13, 2019)

Kompa said:


> I've said this before and I'll say it again. What's 15 bucks and hour when you only get 17 hours a week



255/week.  (gross)

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## BullseyeBlues (Jan 14, 2019)

I’m actually a prime example of someone who has the skills, the work ethic, and knowledge to have a better job in theory, but for precisely the reason Comiecorvus mentioned, am stuck at Target because interviews are such an obstacle even when I’ve practiced answers to common interview questions.  I’ve been to college.  So, yeah, I’m trying to better myself, but it takes more than just that to get into better job fields these days.  Check yourself, people.  (Not gonna call out by names because I don’t want to be banned.)  When you’re filling in for virtually every non-managerial role in the store, beloved by regular guests, training most of your store’s team, and still not getting sufficient hours you can try to tell me that’s not worth $15/hour. 

*mic drop*


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## can't touch this (Jan 15, 2019)

So I’m wondering...lately our leadership has been making these lofty claims that once E2E returns and we start owning our own areas, we’ll be getting 40 or close to it with 8 hours per day minimum. 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔. Just curious if anybody else’s leaders are saying this?

I guess my question is, WHY would they be telling us this, are they getting disinfo from our DTL? Not in a huddle by the way, but it keeps coming up in random conversations about hours and they’re pretty up front about it. It goes without saying that getting “close to” 40 hours a week at 15 an hour at fucking Target of all places is less believable than Kent Hovind. I’ll believe it when I see it (which is never).


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## Backroom81 (Jan 15, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> WHY would they be telling us this


Carrot, stick, etc.


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## PJ5 (Jan 16, 2019)

Employees and hours are cut short at places that pay min wage as well, Target just has more of an “excuse” at $15.  Almost all businesses don’t want to spend money if they don’t have to on anything, even if it makes the quality of business go down.  It’s terrible that corporations just don’t care or comprehend with the current cost of living that their employees who make it possible for their stores to bring in revenue need money to survive.


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## skrepo1977 (Jan 16, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> There are certain circumstances where you can do that, it's called supported employment.
> It dates back to the days when rather than do real rehab they would stick people with disabilities in broom factories.
> There are even companies that pay people with disabilities in gift cards.
> It is a horrible, dated concept and fuck anyone who does it.
> ...


Oh I completely agree that the practice is messed up. Some of the hardest workers I have ever met in my decade plus at Target, were deaf and/or slightly autistic.


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## can't touch this (Jan 16, 2019)

Tainted Kool aid said:


> What do mean by when it returns? We never stopped and hours have dropped way low for most still around 25 for the hardest workers though



Some stores unofficially dropped it or at least scaled back to a basic “fuck you” version of E2E after it caused a Q4 shitstorm combined with the derpiest batch of seasonals in human history. My store is kinda in the middle. I’m assuming it had the approval of our old DTL because he could’ve made it happen if he wanted to. Our new one is an irritating bimbo twit who drank a whole bathtub of the Jim Jones Koolaid so the changeover is now looming as she cackles at our misery. 

Basically, getting up in the morning to go to work is about to become substantially more difficult.


----------



## can't touch this (Jan 16, 2019)

That stupid bint literally told our STL to his face that if they do everything identically to her store, it will work flawlessly. Never mind the fact that her store is a SuperTarget with a receiving the size of an aircraft hangar and has 1 googol hours to spend every month. My eyes rolled so hard that I tied a knot in both my optic nerves


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## Llamanatee (Jan 17, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> So I’m wondering...lately our leadership has been making these lofty claims that once E2E returns and we start owning our own areas, we’ll be getting 40 or close to it with 8 hours per day minimum. 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔. Just curious if anybody else’s leaders are saying this?
> 
> I guess my question is, WHY would they be telling us this, are they getting disinfo from our DTL? Not in a huddle by the way, but it keeps coming up in random conversations about hours and they’re pretty up front about it. It goes without saying that getting “close to” 40 hours a week at 15 an hour at fucking Target of all places is less believable than Kent Hovind. I’ll believe it when I see it (which is never).


We were spoon fed that same bullshit.  Meanwhile people that own areas only work long enough to attempt to push truck for their area, so about 16 hours a week.  We still have like a two person POG team and whoever they feel like throwing on it that day, but that’s about to go bye bye.  So I’m sure those dedicated owners might get like 4 more hours for pogs and revisions.  Once they dismantle the two pricing team members, I guess they’ll get an hour or two for that as well.  

At this point sometimes I feel like I stick around to see what happens next, get the few pennies they throw in my pension each year, get my little bit of money to pay for my car so my partner doesn’t have to, and that’s about it.


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## Leo47 (Jan 17, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> That stupid bint literally told our STL to his face that if they do everything identically to her store, it will work flawlessly. Never mind the fact that her store is a SuperTarget with a receiving the size of an aircraft hangar and has 1 googol hours to spend every month. My eyes rolled so hard that I tied a knot in both my optic nerves


God I love the way you talk 😂😂


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## can't touch this (Jan 17, 2019)

Sloth said:


> Kind of want to know who your DTL is now.



She looks kind of like Ivanka Trump with a super irritating fake grin and big hoop earrings that are just begging to be yanked


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## Black Sheep 214 (Jan 17, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> and big hoop earrings that are just begging to be yanked


Don’t worry. She’ll be explaining something to Karen at some point and one of her rug rats will reach out of the cart and grab that golden ring...😂 Provided that she will actually stoop to speak to a guest...🙄


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## SnowWhiteOfAnA (Jan 18, 2019)

Ringwraith917 said:


> @can't touch this get a stopwatch. Keep track of how long you spent on guest service. Keep a log of times and dates. That way you have proof if it's ever a real issue.
> @Not My Name I've seen this with RFID scanning. Fewer people doing the job of daily softlines research. I'm still getting my hours though cause I adapted and was the best at it.
> 
> Be amazing. You'll get your hours. Be ineffective, you'll get cut.


Yeah, I had a professor tell me about RFID preventing theft back in 2012 and well, AP is still a much needed resource, so, I'm not all that worried just yet.


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## SnowWhiteOfAnA (Jan 18, 2019)

Sloth said:


> Yeah, I dunno. The only real thing they can try and automate is the logistics side of things. Guests absolutely hate SCO at my store and avoid it like the plague. "What? You want me to ring my own items up?!?! And bag them myself?!?!?!?!"
> 
> Given the state of our DCs, I don't think that automation is coming anytime soon. The state of the freight we receive is an absolute joke. Why are we getting transition so early? And why isn't it palletized? You know we're just going to palletize it and put it in the steel anyway, so why not save us the hassle? Stores should come before DCs, because we're the guest-facing side and we have much less space to work with. You make a dozen DCs do some extra work OR make almost 2,000 stores do some extra work -- which is going to cost less, eh?
> 
> Don't need to go to college to figure that much out, or high school for that matter.


Part of the idea behind having RFID tags on everything is that one day, an RFID scanner would just scan everything in your cart and tell you how much you owe. Which would also eliminate the possibility of hiding items inside of other items (like purses or suitcases) to steal.


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## SnowWhiteOfAnA (Jan 18, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> The frustrating thing about that is there are a lot of people especially people with disabilities who want full time jobs but who can only get jobs in places like Target.
> They need to make a living but are under employed and not being paid jack.
> They need that $15.00 an hour.
> We have people who are high functioning autism, who have gone to college but can't get past the interview stage and wind up with jobs well below what they have the skills for.
> ...


And the worst part of that is that Target used to be a great place to work if you had a disability, but now they don't seem to realize that some TMs need to be able to focus on one or two tasks in order to be effective, instead of trying to have them do 8 or 9 things at once. I can guarantee you that having me do one thing at a time will result in me getting a lot more done in a shift than trying to do 8 or 9.


----------



## SnowWhiteOfAnA (Jan 18, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> Electrical, I called my FIL who is an electrical engineer and is a firm believer in doing it yourself rather than paying someone.  He talked me through wiring a brand new light, replacing an entire outlet that had gone bad, showed me how to run new outlets and new light and how they would hook into the breaker box.  He also picked up plumbing from somewhere and talked me through some of that.  My dad had to rewire the box that ran from the electric company's lines to the house lines to be up to code before the electric company would replace a broken wire.
> 
> I was good with numbers and budgeting a check book and had an office procedures course in high school so my new husband who worked in construction supply talked to his boss who talked to one of the subcontractors and I got a bookkeeping job.  He wanted to get a class A contractor's license than he had, dragged me along to the course, and then about 20 minutes into the course he got a phone call and had to leave and told me to stay and take really good notes so I could brief him before the test.  I regurgitated the information well enough that he got that license, so definitely picked up a lot of stuff about carpentry there.  Add in that a couple of my husband's friends were framers, and they walked us all through the practical side when we were building stuff for sci fi/fantasy conventions.  One also showed the ropes in repairing a leak in the roof of the house that we were at.  Also part of that bookkeeping, I learned a lot of codes and where to find out how to meet them.  My husband working in construction supply, he made sure I learned how to use power tools because he thought they were cool as shit.  Oh, and everything we install in the house has to have heavy duty fasteners, so I had to learn how to properly use them.
> 
> ...


You should ask about being a PMT. Like Fix It said, there's more to it than repair, but you're obviously fairly qualified. My PMT literally told me recently that he guesses half the time and he's great at his job. If nothing else, maybe ask your PMT more about what they do? It's 40 hrs a week and good pay, so why not?


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## SnowWhiteOfAnA (Jan 18, 2019)

Backroom81 said:


> 32 hours a week @ $7.50 got you health insurance.


Exactly what I tell people here when they complain about making minimum wage, but they work full time.


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## Tessa120 (Jan 18, 2019)

SnowWhiteOfAnA said:


> You should ask about being a PMT. Like Fix It said, there's more to it than repair, but you're obviously fairly qualified. My PMT literally told me recently that he guesses half the time and he's great at his job. If nothing else, maybe ask your PMT more about what they do? It's 40 hrs a week and good pay, so why not?


We've got an electrical outlet being held together by a zip tie.  I could do a lot better than that, but I'm not the PMT so I couldn't even tape it close so kiddies didn't touch the visible bare wires when the outlet opened up.


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## SnowWhiteOfAnA (Jan 18, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> We've got an electrical outlet being held together by a zip tie.  I could do a lot better than that, but I'm not the PMT so I couldn't even tape it close so kiddies didn't touch the visible bare wires when the outlet opened up.


Well, every once in a while, our PMT says or does something that makes me go "hmm..." so I mean, we're all human, lol.


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## can't touch this (Jan 26, 2019)

A little bird told me that we’ll be back up to 40 starting February 31st


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## can't touch this (Jan 26, 2019)

Also on the subject of “deserving” 15 an hour, can we talk about ETLs and STLs who pull down between 70 and 100 thousand slices of bread ~per annum~ and don’t know/have to be shown how to tie and set a POG and operate the baler???????

Our current STL knows how to do everything and does it all, which is so weird precisely because his predecessors (and apparently many other leads at other stores, from what I’ve read on here) knew literally nothing except how to write a shitty schedule. With all due respect Mr. or Mrs. Moneybags, if I ask you if you’re busy, and you say no, and I ask you for assistance with something and you respond “uhhh idk ask Bob or Lisa” it really makes me THINK 🤔 🤔


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## BoxCutter (Jan 26, 2019)

There once was a time that ETL training took the new hire through every department and team to learn how all aspects of Target operated. 

In addition, before becoming a STL you would have to do a rotation as ETL-Logistics since that department handles all freight and other departments would flourish or fail depending on how well Flow operated.  

I knew the days of well trained ETLs was over when one day I heard a newly installed ETL being called over the walkie to come to Light-Duty. A minute later I heard this ETL ask a TM: "What's Light-Duty, and where is it?"


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## Yetive (Jan 26, 2019)

Mine was when a newly minted ETL was in a panic because there was a tm calling in sick on the phone.  He didn't "know how to do it."  I told him that when the tm said he was sick, the ETL should say, "you don't sound sick to me."


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## Llamanatee (Jan 26, 2019)

BoxCutter said:


> There once was a time that ETL training took the new hire through every department and team to learn how all aspects of Target operated.
> 
> In addition, before becoming a STL you would have to do a rotation as ETL-Logistics since that department handles all freight and other departments would flourish or fail depending on how well Flow operated.
> 
> I knew the days of well trained ETLs was over when one day I heard a newly installed ETL being called over the walkie to come to Light-Duty. A minute later I heard this ETL ask a TM: "What's Light-Duty, and where is it?"



Ah yes, I remember this.  I trained many Etls how to set and do street dates in entertainment, along with mirs and return scans.  My last two Etls had no fucking clue what I did and one even accused me of doing nothing.  😂


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## NKG (Jan 26, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> A little bird told me that we’ll be back up to 40 starting February 31st



Not in Smarch?


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## can't touch this (Jul 11, 2019)

Well well well well well well well well just imagine my shock, my stupefaction, my absolute bewilderment and consternation when corp read my thread and decided to roll out the paradigm shift ahead of schedule. Why wait for $15 when you can begin waking to a living nightmare today? 

Several TMs who have been here for a long time in Target years (like 1-2 years) who have never been coached are getting coached about dumb shit out of the fuckin' blue...lol whatcha doin', corporate?! It's happening to almost everybody, so suddenly that we all smell a rat and it's obvious that leadership finally got the "execute Order 66" email. 

I see everything now. THIS is what my ETL-LOG saw coming, I can just picture him twisting his face in his trademark turbo-sneer of infinite disgust once he realized what he would eventually have to do...falsify paperwork and lie about hard-working TMs so that they can't apply for unemployment. Here we see how evil corporations have an ethics filter in place that ensures the honest humans are selected against and only sycophantic xenoreptiloids from Zeta Reticuli are suited for the roles. 

I have yet to be Targeted™ myself, but it seems inevitable, like how a parachutist who is plummeting to the Earth with a ripped parachute knows that their death is inevitable. I have a bit of PTO I need to cash out or I'd yeet out of here next Monday...fuckin yikes


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## InboundGrunt (Jul 11, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> Several TMs who have been here for a long time in Target years (like 1-2 years) who have never been coached are getting coached about dumb shit out of the fuckin' blue...lol whatcha doin', corporate?! It's happening to almost everybody, so suddenly that we all smell a rat and it's obvious that leadership finally got the "execute Order 66" email.


Like coached on general speed/guest engagement type stuff?

Also, 


can't touch this said:


> - “WHY DIDN’T YOU GET 25 UBOATS PUSHED IN 45 MINUTES ON A BUSY SATURDAY EVENING?!? FIFTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR!!!!!! REEEEEEEEEEE!!!”


This is already too real, unfortunately.


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## can't touch this (Jul 11, 2019)

"O Minneapolis, thou that firest the best workers, and writeth them up them who are hired unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy bread together, as Brian doth gathereth his Benjis unto his belt clip, and ye would not!"


----------



## can't touch this (Jul 11, 2019)

InboundGrunt said:


> Like coached on general speed/guest engagement type stuff?



Yuuuup


----------



## Aredhel (Jul 11, 2019)

Not My Name said:


> Hey guess what?  Automation, machines and robots are coming to replace you either way but the $15 narrative push is just going to expedite the process.  Your understanding of economics is petulant and highly ignorant at best.
> 
> You don’t deserve $15 an hour to sell toilet paper and toothpaste.  I’m sorry that your parents and schools and the media have failed you but that’s the truth.
> 
> ...


And I can sum up your entire problem is that you have to have people doing certain jobs and if you don’t give them enough time YOU will be taking up the slack and . you. won’t. like. it.


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## Endlessbackstock (Jul 12, 2019)

The hours thing does bother me, but I’m honestly more upset that I am going to be automatically grouped in with a lot of other employees(making $15) who may not do shit, just so everyone can “feel” equal.  Complete bullsh*t!


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## flow4areasonuno (Jul 12, 2019)

The good news is that I'm falling into a decent evening routine. The turnover is good for those of us remaining, I'm getting more hours than I have in months. Reshop, remaining push, more reshop, then auditing at the end.

I'm pretty much alone all day (regarding coworkers/managers, until breaktime anyway) unless I need help with something.


----------



## GozerZuul (Jul 12, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> The frustrating thing about that is there are a lot of people especially people with disabilities who want full time jobs but who can only get jobs in places like Target.
> They need to make a living but are under employed and not being paid jack.
> They need that $15.00 an hour.
> We have people who are high functioning autism, who have gone to college but can't get past the interview stage and wind up with jobs well below what they have the skills for.
> ...


truth man, truth. i have aspergers which is considered "high functioning" but isnt really. interviews are the worst. from what i seen, working construction jobs, warehouse, and recently another retail job at a blue competitor-target is actually the worst for neurodivergent people. too much pressure and then the ADA and even FMLA is hooped all to hell.also the 80% is only those looking for work, many of our band tend to give up after a few years and either aim for government assistance or just "reside to their fate" and get under someone's care-whether they help them or not is a issue.


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## flow4areasonuno (Jul 12, 2019)

GozerZuul said:


> target is actually the worst for neurodivergent people.



That's why I'm so glad I'm basically by myself all night. I just know I'd say something wrong in front of a coworker eventually. I'm at my worst when I have no formula to abide by in conversation (guests are relatively easy to deal with because of that)--unless you're interested in my hobbies. Then I can talk your ear off.

Not sure what's wrong with me, but I sure as hell ain't normal.

I just assume I'm doing fine unless someone says something to me.


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## Mikuhl (Jul 12, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> - A new rule will come down from corporate to all HR teams: ABSOLUTELY NO REPLACING CALLOUTS EVER! You’re in HR and you call someone in anyway...guess what happens! Also, R.I.P. the swap board.


This is already in effect. And this is why group chats exist  I will not let them waste hours when someone else could be working.


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## SprooseMoose (Jul 12, 2019)

GozerZuul said:


> truth man, truth. i have aspergers which is considered "high functioning" but isnt really. interviews are the worst. from what i seen, working construction jobs, warehouse, and recently another retail job at a blue competitor-target is actually the worst for neurodivergent people. too much pressure and then the ADA and even FMLA is hooped all to hell.also the 80% is only those looking for work, many of our band tend to give up after a few years and either aim for government assistance or just "reside to their fate" and get under someone's care-whether they help them or not is a issue.





flow4areasonuno said:


> That's why I'm so glad I'm basically by myself all night. I just know I'd say something wrong in front of a coworker eventually. I'm at my worst when I have no formula to abide by in conversation (guests are relatively easy to deal with because of that)--unless you're interested in my hobbies. Then I can talk your ear off.
> 
> Not sure what's wrong with me, but I sure as hell ain't normal.
> 
> I just assume I'm doing fine unless someone says something to me.


Same. I am believed to have asperger's (haven't had insurance or the ability to afford all the different types of doctors and referrals and specialists visits that are required in my state before you can be seen by the right type of doctor to 100% confirm it) but my primary care doctor is positive that I am.

I suck at interviews. I get off on tangents and then don't remember the original point I was trying to make. I'm actually surprised that I got a TL position at Target because so much is based on the interview process. The only thing I think that saved me is I had a good work history and had someone that believed that I had the capability to do the job, even if I kept bombing the interviews, because they had seen me work and complete tasks as they were given.


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## Aredhel (Jul 12, 2019)

GozerZuul said:


> truth man, truth. i have aspergers which is considered "high functioning" but isnt really. interviews are the worst. from what i seen, working construction jobs, warehouse, and recently another retail job at a blue competitor-target is actually the worst for neurodivergent people. too much pressure and then the ADA and even FMLA is hooped all to hell.also the 80% is only those looking for work, many of our band tend to give up after a few years and either aim for government assistance or just "reside to their fate" and get under someone's care-whether they help them or not is a issue.


Neurodivergent. The best description I’ve heard.


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## GozerZuul (Jul 17, 2019)

Aredhel said:


> Neurodivergent. The best description I’ve heard.


most autistic groups refuse the title of "not normal" and use neurodivergent as a way of saying were not too different but we diverted from the norm at some point.


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## Tessa120 (Jul 17, 2019)

Blech. Feeding problems at birth for several weeks, refusing to feed if being touched (which a developmental pediatrician said was common in children later diagnosed with autism). Months old, if anyone tried to interact, turn face away. Very rarely make baby noises and very few letter sounds. Human touch leads to screaming. Seams in clothes causes screaming. Certain sounds, same. Toddler, never responds to name. Can't turn anything into a toy, it's just all lined up the exact same way every time, screaming if it's disrupted. Potty trained at five, saying one or two words a day at five. Sign language and augmentative devices an utter fail because the speech problems are tied to socialization, not a desire to communicate without the ability.

I'd love to know when they diverged from normal and how all that and more is just being different, not impaired. I dont get how people with autism can look at their past, how they can look at how very much they were locked in their own world to the point they couldn't feed themselves or go to the bathroom in the toilet rather than their pants, how they couldn't use the words to ask for help, and say that was an acceptable alternative way to live. How clothes, carpets, peanut butter, and birds singing was so much pain they'd scream out was a decent way to feel the world around them.

Even as adults there's significant impairment, even if it's not easily seen. Just because there's an adult ability to reason and mask doesn't mean there's no impact to daily life, and it doesn't start off in life as mild, there's a really deep well to climb up to get to it's not obvious. 

I dont see how anyone could claim all that as different, or diverged from normal in utero.


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## checklane01 (Jul 17, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> $15 an hour will be invoked heavily by leadership as the go-to response for everything.


This has already happened. My ETL commended us on the best BRLA in the district. Then continued to say the DTL (or whatever they’re called now) is telling stores since we’re paying more, there needs to be higher expectations.


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## SprooseMoose (Jul 17, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> Blech. Feeding problems at birth for several weeks, refusing to feed if being touched (which a developmental pediatrician said was common in children later diagnosed with autism). Months old, if anyone tried to interact, turn face away. Very rarely make baby noises and very few letter sounds. Human touch leads to screaming. Seams in clothes causes screaming. Certain sounds, same. Toddler, never responds to name. Can't turn anything into a toy, it's just all lined up the exact same way every time, screaming if it's disrupted. Potty trained at five, saying one or two words a day at five. Sign language and augmentative devices an utter fail because the speech problems are tied to socialization, not a desire to communicate without the ability.
> 
> I'd love to know when they diverged from normal and how all that and more is just being different, not impaired. I dont get how people with autism can look at their past, how they can look at how very much they were locked in their own world to the point they couldn't feed themselves or go to the bathroom in the toilet rather than their pants, how they couldn't use the words to ask for help, and say that was an acceptable alternative way to live. How clothes, carpets, peanut butter, and birds singing was so much pain they'd scream out was a decent way to feel the world around them.
> 
> ...


I mean, a lot of the stuff you are talking about is the very high end of the spectrum. And some of that behavior isn't exclusive to autistic people. I have a friend who didn't talk until she was 5. She was tested and not on the spectrum. She now has kids and one of them is taking after her, not talking. She's also been tested and isn't on it.

That being said, if someone does have some of those behaviors and is on the high end or even middle area of the spectrum, their brains work differently. They may not look at their pasts the same. Or at all. I've never known anyone on the high end personally, but I know 2 or 3 that are closer to middle than low end, and quite a few with what used to be referred to as aspergers.

As I said above for myself, it is believed that I fall into the aspergers category and hope to have it officially confirmed or denied whenever I can get doctors visits lined up with days off. But I have issues with daily life things, but am still a functional member of society. I suck at interviews. I cannot do eye contact very well. Socks sometimes don't go on the right way, have to take them off and start over or get a new pair. But growing up in the south, manners were a big thing, so that meant eye contact and many other things I am/was unable to do. So, I learned to mask issues or find ways to mimic behaviors without doing the behavior.

My SO finally noticed after 12 years together that I don't look them directly in the eye or if I do, it is briefly. Once they caught on they started noticing my minute eye movements and so now sometimes while we are talking they will ask what part of their face I am looking at. Usually it is an eyebrow, or rim of their glasses, sometimes to of nose or bridge of nose. Learned at a young age when being told to look people in the eye that the above generally worked when i otherwise couldn't look them in the eye. They asked recently why I never told them about any of the above and I simply said because I don't have a concrete answer yet. But it is obvious that our minds don't work the same way either.



checklane01 said:


> This has already happened. My ETL commended us on the best BRLA in the district. Then continued to say the DTL (or whatever they’re called now) is telling stores since we’re paying more, there needs to be higher expectations.


This has happened to us as well. "We are paying more so you have more responsibilities now.


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## can't touch this (Jul 19, 2019)

wow I sure do love working with people who come to work grouchy because they're being performanced out

I sure also love hearing some empty promise that I'll be sent help only for 2 hours to go by and find out the would-be help was sent home instead. That pattern though. I wonder if passively irritating me is their nice way of bamboozling me into quitting, instead of the meaner way with bullshit writeups. These days with my precarious juggling of two jobs, I'm getting around $120 from Target per week...it's kind of a question how much irritation I want to put up with. Some days it's almost too much but hell, that's bread. Even seeing the Target logo pisses me off, but on the other hand, my wallet has always got room for an extra 12 Andrew Jacksons every other Friday, you feel me? 

Ewwww. Everybody has a sour attitude and that's making me have a sour attitude, and quitting by next week is quite tempting, but I shore hate to part with those greenbacks. The inner peace that would come with not working at Target vs. yearning for those earnings. Quite the dilemma here folks


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## GozerZuul (Jul 19, 2019)

SprooseMoose said:


> I mean, a lot of the stuff you are talking about is the very high end of the spectrum. And some of that behavior isn't exclusive to autistic people. I have a friend who didn't talk until she was 5. She was tested and not on the spectrum. She now has kids and one of them is taking after her, not talking. She's also been tested and isn't on it.
> 
> That being said, if someone does have some of those behaviors and is on the high end or even middle area of the spectrum, their brains work differently. They may not look at their pasts the same. Or at all. I've never known anyone on the high end personally, but I know 2 or 3 that are closer to middle than low end, and quite a few with what used to be referred to as aspergers.
> 
> ...


Same here. Manners we're a thing for us small town Yankees as well.i look at the bridge of the nose. As for "blech", your describing someone on the lower end of the spectrum who probably will grow up and do some things but may or may not ever fit into the norm. I don't think you get that autism is a spectrum and that we don't all have "can't be touched" or that. Autism is mostly based on a set of patterns in behaviour. Repetition is a big one along with no "theory of mind" setup where if you make a face at me I don't innately understand it. Even at my age and "training" I still occasionally misperceive things. E.g. go grab a coworker. To you it innately means to go find them and ask them. Ut to me I have to process it first in the literal terms and then search in my brain for what it means. It's more like learning to translate a foreign langauge than anything else. I don't like being touched but it's due to the pressure on my skin, or the heat,etc. And does vary from person to person. What your saying is how you feel and that's good but much of what you say boils down to " your pretending/it's not real". I'm not a woman but imagine if, because I wasn't, a woman told me of her period and then I said but I have seen other women and they don't act like you do.just think a minute.


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## sfslackey (Jul 20, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> Blech. Feeding problems at birth for several weeks, refusing to feed if being touched (which a developmental pediatrician said was common in children later diagnosed with autism). Months old, if anyone tried to interact, turn face away. Very rarely make baby noises and very few letter sounds. Human touch leads to screaming. Seams in clothes causes screaming. Certain sounds, same. Toddler, never responds to name. Can't turn anything into a toy, it's just all lined up the exact same way every time, screaming if it's disrupted. Potty trained at five, saying one or two words a day at five. Sign language and augmentative devices an utter fail because the speech problems are tied to socialization, not a desire to communicate without the ability.
> 
> I'd love to know when they diverged from normal and how all that and more is just being different, not impaired. I dont get how people with autism can look at their past, how they can look at how very much they were locked in their own world to the point they couldn't feed themselves or go to the bathroom in the toilet rather than their pants, how they couldn't use the words to ask for help, and say that was an acceptable alternative way to live. How clothes, carpets, peanut butter, and birds singing was so much pain they'd scream out was a decent way to feel the world around them.
> 
> ...


Are you suggesting that this was simply a result of their environment early on? I think there is no way they randomly diverged from normal that young without it being there since birth. I don't see how autism is any different from any other developmental disorder that obviously have a genetic component. You are clearly talking about people with severe autism who find it extremely hard to find any work whatsoever. People who are high functioning or have Asperger's are not going through those same problems and can be great workers. It can even be hard to tell they are on the spectrum.


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## Antennae (Jul 20, 2019)

checklane01 said:


> This has already happened. My ETL commended us on the best BRLA in the district. Then continued to say the DTL (or whatever they’re called now) is telling stores since we’re paying more, there needs to be higher expectations.


Funny, you figure there would be higher expectations for those making $50k+ a year yet here we are.

Not sure how the grind they expect for $15/hr will fair in CA. Good luck with that!


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## Tessa120 (Jul 20, 2019)

Nope, my daughter holds down a job that is high interactions with the public, has a boyfriend and several friends, and wants to become an astronomer. Because with early intervention kids actually increase their functioning.

Gasp, what a novel concept...except it was included as a footnote in the DSM the year she was born. This is the progression of autism, low functioning, therapies, high functioning. Does she still have trouble, yes. But the trouble is higher functioning stuff, like anxiety over phone calls and learning things like budgeting over a month, not just per payday.

And @sfslackey, I was arguing the opposite. Neurodivergent is not true because their brains never diverged from normal, they come out of the womb already struggling.


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## sfslackey (Jul 20, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> Nope, my daughter holds down a job that is high interactions with the public, has a boyfriend and several friends, and wants to become an astronomer. Because with early intervention kids actually increase their functioning.
> 
> Gasp, what a novel concept...except it was included as a footnote in the DSM the year she was born. This is the progression of autism, low functioning, therapies, high functioning. Does she still have trouble, yes. But the trouble is higher functioning stuff, like anxiety over phone calls and learning things like budgeting over a month, not just per payday.
> 
> And @sfslackey, I was arguing the opposite. Neurodivergent is not true because their brains never diverged from normal, they come out of the womb already struggling.


Thank you! That was exactly the type of insight I look for. I may have misunderstood your comment at first, but you clearly have more experience with this and I want to know the most I can about it. I knew some people (mainly with Asperger's) who were so awesome and only came across as a little weird at most. I was surprised when I learned they were on the spectrum honestly.


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## BullseyeBabe (Oct 14, 2019)

So, I’ve been thinking about the TLs and what will happen when TMs go to $15.00 an hour. I’m pretty sure that that the $4.00 above TM’s pay grade will be history. Think about it. When the TLs all were  promoted to pg 45 we didn’t get the pay bump. There’s no way we’ll all get bumped up to $4.00 over $15. I predict the TL pay will become $2.00 above TMs. What do you guys think? I hope I’m wrong, I really do.


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## Not My Name (Oct 16, 2019)

BullseyeBabe said:


> So, I’ve been thinking about the TLs and what will happen when TMs go to $15.00 an hour. I’m pretty sure that that the $4.00 above TM’s pay grade will be history. Think about it. When the TLs all were  promoted to pg 45 we didn’t get the pay bump. There’s no way we’ll all get bumped up to $4.00 over $15. I predict the TL pay will become $2.00 above TMs. What do you guys think? I hope I’m wrong, I really do.



I think that as a GSTL you should never leave that work center unless you’re beyond desperate to get promoted.

I also think the gap would still be more than $2 simply because the workload difference isn’t worth $2 and they’d start losing TMs who quit and come back with less stress and similar pay.


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## Not My Name (Oct 16, 2019)

Aredhel said:


> And I can sum up your entire problem is that you have to have people doing certain jobs and if you don’t give them enough time YOU will be taking up the slack and . you. won’t. like. it.



What?  I quit Target 3 years ago, lol.


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## jackandcat (Oct 18, 2019)

seasonaldude said:


> I actually think Target will be fine..... In reality, despite people spending less at a time this will result in more overall money for places like Target. It's one of the dirty little secrets of being poor in America. There's a hidden tax on the poor and broke. There have been studies on it. People with less money end up paying more overall for things that everyone has to buy repeatedly because they can't afford to buy in bulk and wait for sales. When you need toilet paper, you need toilet paper. If all you can afford is a four pack of cardboard Target brand, then you'll pay less now. But, end up paying more overtime than someone who buys a huge pack of Quilted Northern.


During the very nasty 2009-2014 Great Recession, uber-low-price stores like Dollar Tree and Dollar General thrived and boomed.  Basic household goods, cleaning supplies, basic groceries and snacks, and very-low-cost gift items and even greeting cards.  Today, although those stores still ring up a fair chunk of sales, these stores aren't growing their sales increases at the same rates as during the Great Recession.


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## jackandcat (Oct 18, 2019)

Another paradox is that some states, like Washington, are raising their state minimum wages. In Washington, on January 1, 2020 the statewide minimum jumps to $13.50.  There will be a lot of job jumping and experienced workers will demand even higher wages because of the higher minimum.  Some jobs will be eliminated particularly in rural areas and in small mom-and-pop businesses.


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## happygoth (Oct 18, 2019)

jackandcat said:


> During the very nasty 2009-2014 Great Recession, uber-low-price stores like Dollar Tree and Dollar General thrived and boomed.  Basic household goods, cleaning supplies, basic groceries and snacks, and very-low-cost gift items and even greeting cards.  Today, although those stores still ring up a fair chunk of sales, these stores aren't growing their sales increases at the same rates as during the Great Recession.


That's because they carry crap. They are also dirty and messy. I just walked into a dollar store chain today (after my visit to a higher-end off-price retailer, and only to use the bathroom because I was at a different plaza, otherwise I would've used the other store's - yes I am a snob) and they looked awful, cages full of merchandise and cardboard everywhere. Plus, a lot of what they get is bad knock-offs or cheap versions of name brands, for instance they had boxes of Kleenex that looked like the kind you get at Target and grocery stores, but they only contained half the amount of tissue. 

I have found more often than not that the old cliche is true - you get what you pay for.


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## jackandcat (Oct 18, 2019)

Target's a better place to shop, and carries better merchandise, than "dollar stores".  However, of all the various "dollar stores", IMHO the nicest stores are the Dollar Tree chain. At least in my area, Dollar Tree stores are very clean and well-organized.  The merchandise mix includes major name brands, but often the $1 size contains a tiny portion size (ounces per dollar etc.) than what you find at Target.  However, Dollar Tree is unbeatable for party favors and supplies, greeting cards, and birthday/holiday inflated balloons. YMMV.


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## happygoth (Oct 18, 2019)

jackandcat said:


> Target's a better place to shop, and carries better merchandise, than "dollar stores".  However, of all the various "dollar stores", IMHO the nicest stores are the Dollar Tree chain. At least in my area, Dollar Tree stores are very clean and well-organized.  The merchandise mix includes major name brands, but often the $1 size contains a tiny portion size (ounces per dollar etc.) than what you find at Target.  However, Dollar Tree is unbeatable for party favors and supplies, greeting cards, and birthday/holiday inflated balloons. YMMV.



I agree, Dollar Tree is probably the best of the dollar stores. Also agree about greeting cards, balloons and party supplies, which are disposable - there's no need to spend a lot of money on stuff like that.


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## Spot the doge (Oct 19, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> The frustrating thing about that is there are a lot of people especially people with disabilities who want full time jobs but who can only get jobs in places like Target.
> They need to make a living but are under employed and not being paid jack.
> They need that $15.00 an hour.
> We have people who are high functioning autism, who have gone to college but can't get past the interview stage and wind up with jobs well below what they have the skills for.
> ...


This was me during my time at Spot. I asked for 2 years for additional training and constantly was asking for more responsibily. Instead I spent the 2 years running myself bare trying to meet time goals I had no dream of ever meeting and suffering as cashier, while playing schedule roulette, which made it impossible for my transportation to plan their own day. I even had to call from a Comicon panel room to call out once after they forgot to key in my month-ahead requested day off. I ultimately got pushed out at the time modernization started by means of asking me to complete a physical disability examination for /mental disablities/ after they lost my folder with my diagnosis papers.


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## gsa4lyfe (Oct 19, 2019)

BullseyeBabe said:


> So, I’ve been thinking about the TLs and what will happen when TMs go to $15.00 an hour. I’m pretty sure that that the $4.00 above TM’s pay grade will be history. Think about it. When the TLs all were  promoted to pg 45 we didn’t get the pay bump. There’s no way we’ll all get bumped up to $4.00 over $15. I predict the TL pay will become $2.00 above TMs. What do you guys think? I hope I’m wrong, I really do.


It did bump? TL minimum is 17 now. Stays $4 above TM


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## Tessa120 (Oct 19, 2019)

That's all sorts of illegal. Some lawyers will take civil rights cases pro bono. Some lawyer will take employment cases on contingency, especially if the employer has deep pockets.


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## L4D (Oct 27, 2019)

I screamed at TMs having to become cart attendants as well.

I’m curious how the VM role will be affected seeing as the Style Consultants are *supposed* to be setting VMGs now.


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## jackandcat (Oct 30, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> That's all sorts of illegal. Some lawyers will take civil rights cases pro bono. Some lawyer will take employment cases on contingency, especially if the employer has deep pockets.


 But team members can't sue Target. You are bound by a mandatory arbitration clause. No access to real courts, just a private court that's not the same. Attorneys won't take arbitration cases unless you pay by the hour.


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## Tessa120 (Oct 30, 2019)

Disability laws trump that, especially with the EEOC on your side.


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## jackandcat (Nov 4, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> Disability laws trump that, especially with the EEOC on your side.


  I'm not a fanboy of corporate management, but the EEOC's influence "on your side" isn't quite the slam-dunk that you might think it is.  Use a search engine for employee mandatory arbitration and you'll see what a (expletive deleted) situation a disabled ex-employee might face, many of the supreme court decisions support arbitration.  Honestly hoping you never have to endure that kind of bad experience....  YMMV


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