# OM Starting Pay



## Potential OM (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi All —

I have an opportunity to become an OM — external hire. Was wondering if you all had any insight into the starting pay? Also, any thoughts on the job in general, and the opportunity for advancement?

Thank you for any help.


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## Dcnewb4now (Jul 7, 2020)

At my building, about half of the om’s leave after 3 months. Idk about pay, but have heard it isn’t that great to start. A tm working a little ot could make more and they work long hours.


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## Potential OM (Jul 7, 2020)

Dcnewb4now said:


> At my building, about half of the om’s leave after 3 months. Idk about pay, but have heard it isn’t that great to start. A tm working a little ot could make more and they work long hours.



I was told the normal hours would be 4 10 hour days. But I guess that is subject to change. Any other reason you could think of for why people leave so frequently?


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## Hal (Jul 7, 2020)

So I'm a TM who was promoted to OM. Every TM who says you can make the same money as a TM with OT is wrong unless they're working 60 hour work weeks and never do anything else with their lives. Believe me I did it.

Started around 70k. And one of the interns who onboarded told me they started around 65k. Range runs from 60 to 100k depending on experience. Hope that answers your question.


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## Potential OM (Jul 8, 2020)

Hal said:


> So I'm a TM who was promoted to OM. Every TM who says you can make the same money as a TM with OT is wrong unless they're working 60 hour work weeks and never do anything else with their lives. Believe me I did it.
> 
> Started around 70k. And one of the interns who onboarded told me they started around 65k. Range runs from 60 to 100k depending on experience. Hope that answers your question.



Definitely helpful. Thank you. Do you have any general thoughts about the job? Do you like it? What about earning the respect of the TM's? Being external and younger I want to foster a good working relationship.


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## ItChecksOut (Jul 8, 2020)

I'm not an om but it's easy to tell its a very sink or swim attitude at my location in regard to om's.

You mostly deal with overworked people with already shitty attitudes. Earning respect is always a fine line of being an actual understanding person while still expecting people to work while holding them accountable. 

People will always test you just to see what you are willing to let them get away with. Its a poor analogy but I always felt more like a parent while managing than an actual manager. 

Most mangament positions I have been in are very push pull, meaning you will be told quality and safety are important. However you will feel like prod is all that matters to anyone.


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## Dcnewb4now (Jul 8, 2020)

Potential OM said:


> I was told the normal hours would be 4 10 hour days. But I guess that is subject to change. Any other reason you could think of for why people leave so frequently?


Tm’s work 10 hours. Om’s work more.


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## Hal (Jul 11, 2020)

Potential OM said:


> Definitely helpful. Thank you. Do you have any general thoughts about the job? Do you like it? What about earning the respect of the TM's? Being external and younger I want to foster a good working relationship.



I love it. Its definitely a lot of work. But the biggest thing is figuring out your routines every day and having a good one. The team is definitely going to test you but just be honest with them and be a person.

I've been with Target for a decade now and its like any other job you get what you put in. My favorite leaders were always the ones who one-on-one just cut the bullshit and were just willing to talk to you like a human being with it was coaching or recognition or just talking.

Hardest part for externals is just learning both the culture and the job. Whereas I just needed to learn the job. You will work longer days than TMs. Assume two extra hours a day for whatever shift you are on. Still only a 40-48 hour work day for 3 or 4 days a week.


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## RealFuckingName (Jul 11, 2020)

What is an "OM?"


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## FrankM0421 (Jul 11, 2020)

RealFuckingName said:


> What is an "OM?"




Operation Manager.  Pretty much the lowest level manager mainly in charge of checking on and babysitting the people that need someone to make sure they stay working. They also end up having to help do the job of the ones they are managing except I've never seen a manager on power equipment.


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## whsDCII (Jul 11, 2020)

FrankM0421 said:


> Operation Manager.  Pretty much the lowest level manager mainly in charge of checking on and babysitting the people that need someone to make sure they stay working. They also end up having to help do the job of the ones they are managing except I've never seen a manager on power equipment.



They are not allowed to use PIT equipment.


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## Dcnewb4now (Jul 11, 2020)

whsDCII said:


> They are not allowed to use PIT equipment.


And most som’s don’t use chariots, but ours did the other day.


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## Luck (Jul 15, 2020)

whsDCII said:


> They are not allowed to use PIT equipment.


Not entirely true. My OMs are trained all equipment that we use in OB. That way if necessary they can move equipment.


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## Hal (Jul 16, 2020)

We are trained but not suppose to use them during regular operations. Only for emergency situations.


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## ItChecksOut (Jul 17, 2020)

If i recall correctly the training is really only considered a "familiarization" with the equipment. Basically enough knowledge on how to turn it on and its basic functions but not to the point of having to actually use it.


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## Dcnewb4now (Sep 18, 2021)

Hal said:


> So I'm a TM who was promoted to OM. Every TM who says you can make the same money as a TM with OT is wrong unless they're working 60 hour work weeks and never do anything else with their lives. Believe me I did it.
> 
> Started around 70k. And one of the interns who onboarded told me they started around 65k. Range runs from 60 to 100k depending on experience. Hope that answers your question.


Om’s work roughly 52 hours a week (at least b1 om’s in my building) and a new om is making $75k (including a presumptive 5% bonus and having warehouse managing experience).  That equates to about 27.75 an hour. I make more than that per hour, so a little ot (or lots with mando) and I’m making $85k.


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## MikeLebowski (Sep 18, 2021)

Dcnewb4now said:


> Om’s work roughly 52 hours a week (at least b1 om’s in my building) and a new om is making $75k (including a presumptive 5% bonus and having warehouse managing experience).  That equates to about 27.75 an hour. I make more than that per hour, so a little ot (or lots with mando) and I’m making $85k.


Assuming you're a TM?


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## FrankM0421 (Sep 19, 2021)

Dcnewb4now said:


> Om’s work roughly 52 hours a week (at least b1 om’s in my building) and a new om is making $75k (including a presumptive 5% bonus and having warehouse managing experience).  That equates to about 27.75 an hour. I make more than that per hour, so a little ot (or lots with mando) and I’m making $85k.


Yep. Weve had money people not take the position because of this.


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## Dream Baby (Sep 19, 2021)

Get everything in writing which is what I tell everyone looking for a job.

Remember that interviews are two way streets so you are interviewing them too.

I would also ask what is the work experience of your team you are managing.

Years ago I did engineering full time and refused jobs once I found out none of my team and had any work experience.


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## Hal (Sep 20, 2021)

Dcnewb4now said:


> Om’s work roughly 52 hours a week (at least b1 om’s in my building) and a new om is making $75k (including a presumptive 5% bonus and having warehouse managing experience).  That equates to about 27.75 an hour. I make more than that per hour, so a little ot (or lots with mando) and I’m making $85k.


You also posted on a thread that's over a year old. OMs always get a raise every year. And its not unheard of to get more than 1. I'm a-keys and I'm not working 52 hours a week. 39-45 is usually the range and I don't bring work home.


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## Luck (Sep 20, 2021)

Hal said:


> You also posted on a thread that's over a year old. OMs always get a raise every year. And its not unheard of to get more than 1. I'm a-keys and I'm not working 52 hours a week. 39-45 is usually the range and I don't bring work home.


At my DC all OMs arrive 2 hours prior to start of shift and stay at least 1 hours after for meetings and whatnot. 
So A OMs at minimum work the 45 hours. B key OMs are the same and end up working the 52 hours.
I know for fact we start at $60k for no experience. 

Some of the more experienced OMs we have are making $80k/year salary. 
Meanwhile working the same 46 hours (for a half day of OT) I make $61k, 52 hours per week i would be making $72k, and working the full 60 (as i currently am) its $87k.
This is not taking into account potential shift differentials since I am on B key. An A1 TM under you working the 46 would be making an additional $5k more aka $66k for the same hours as an A1 OM.

A great example of how OM pay is, we had a Amazon shift manager apply and start working at our DC (both in the same state). She said she took a large pay loss to come to Target because she disliked Amazon. The average pay for that position is reported to be $77k salary. She came to Target with 15 years experience in warehousing management.


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## ItChecksOut (Sep 20, 2021)

I'm not sure why people compare the income for both so often. I hear people all the time claim how they'd never be an om because they wouldn't technically make more. 

Ive also heard OM's complain that some TM's earn more than they do. 

The differences aren't just based on income. The managed don't always make less than their respective managers. What is different are their responsibilities, and in the case of OM vs TM you are trading physical stress and personal responsibility for mental stress and responsibility for your department/AOR. 

Also most TM are content with their current role whereas most OM's are trying to obtain more responsibilities/non OPS roles *PC, TOM, ICQAL, CI, ect...* as for most DC's I've heard of you won't be direct hired into these roles without first being a successful OPS OM. Then going on to Senior leadership and I can tell you a warehouse worker isn't making as much as an SOM/OD.


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## hatemyjob (Sep 20, 2021)

ItChecksOut said:


> I'm not sure why people compare the income for both so often. I hear people all the time claim how they'd never be an om because they wouldn't technically make more.
> 
> Ive also heard OM's complain that some TM's earn more than they do.
> 
> ...



The OM role is a career position that allows for growth either internally or externally. The majority of WWs will never move beyond unskilled manual labor. Yes, it’s unskilled labor. Anyone who thinks otherwise has never held a skilled job.

In 2012 there were two SGLs (SOMs) at my DC who made more that $125k plus bonuses. Several GLs were earning $75k or more. I imagine the executives earn significantly more than that now. Many of the executives I knew have moved up to GM or higher level positions at TGT and other companies.

I sure as hell wouldn’t want to work 60 hours a week doing mindless manual labor to make $85k. You’re right, most WWs are content to move boxes for decades. I found the work to be about as mentally stimulating as watching paint dry.


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## Dcnewb4now (Sep 22, 2021)

Hal said:


> You also posted on a thread that's over a year old. OMs always get a raise every year. And its not unheard of to get more than 1. I'm a-keys and I'm not working 52 hours a week. 39-45 is usually the range and I don't bring work home.


It doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t all that difficult to out earn om’s. Working 1 shift of ot (if I were on a keys) I would make $82,500 for 46 hours and having 3 days off.


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## hatemyjob (Sep 22, 2021)

Dcnewb4now said:


> It doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t all that difficult to out earn om’s. Working 1 shift of ot (if I were on a keys) I would make $82,500 for 46 hours and having 3 days off.



An OM who graduated from a good university is beginning a career. A WW can look forward to moving boxes around for many years. 

I just looked up a former executive I knew who began as a GL-IT in 2004. Fifteen years later she became a VP of Logistics and Strategy at another retailer. Many other GLs I knew have had similar career growth.


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## Luck (Sep 23, 2021)

hatemyjob said:


> An OM who graduated from a good university is beginning a career. A WW can look forward to moving boxes around for many years.
> 
> I just looked up a former executive I knew who began as a GL-IT in 2004. Fifteen years later she became a VP of Logistics and Strategy at another retailer. Many other GLs I knew have had similar career growth.


I also know of OMs that have been in that position for 30 years and never considered for any promotion 😁 
Its a two way street. 
You can turn any experience into a better position. Hell we even have the LWWs now as a direct path. 
Its kinda funny how triggering it is for some people to hear that a management position isn't making more money that a regular worker.


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## MikeLebowski (Sep 25, 2021)

I'm not seeing anyone being Triggered by this? 

From a strictly observational stance, what I see is one person defending a strictly labor intensive position by saying something to the effect of;

 " Why be an OM when I can earn just as much with my job?"

And everyone else trying to explain that the position leads to areas of responsibility that cannot be achieved by the prior... 


Choice managers being in the same position for a career? Some people are just comfortable and don't want to move.


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## Hal (Sep 25, 2021)

Luck said:


> I also know of OMs that have been in that position for 30 years and never considered for any promotion 😁
> Its a two way street.
> You can turn any experience into a better position. Hell we even have the LWWs now as a direct path.
> Its kinda funny how triggering it is for some people to hear that a management position isn't making more money that a regular worker.


I would also say that if they've been an OM for 30 years, they're easily bringing down 6 figures and are at the point where they can run their departments in their sleep.

100k+ to cruise through my work week sounds like a pretty sweet gig.


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## LionDBear (Sep 26, 2021)

@Hal @MikeLebowski 

If possible, can one of you please layout the organizational structure / chain of command for a DC and the salary range for each position?


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## ItChecksOut (Sep 26, 2021)

LionDBear said:


> @Hal @MikeLebowski
> 
> If possible, can one of you please layout the organizational structure / chain of command for a DC and the salary range for each position?



It's going to vary based on the DC, but generally.

Senior distribution director 
Operations Director (day shift/night shift)
Senior operations manager (one per shift,  as well as specific departments such as engineering and facility and continuous improvement departments have an som)
Production controller (one per shift)
Operations manager (at least one per dept, number per dept is based on volume/throughput)

There are other positions as well but again... generally this is the structure. If you looking for salary ranges look these positions up on a site like glassdoor.


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## hatemyjob (Sep 26, 2021)

MikeLebowski said:


> I'm not seeing anyone being Triggered by this?
> 
> From a strictly observational stance, what I see is one person defending a strictly labor intensive position by saying something to the effect of;
> 
> ...



I'm not management and would never accept a management role.

Discouraging someone from a position with growth opportunities because it's possible to earn the same or more money by working a brainless, dead-end job six days a week is asinine.

There is nothing wrong with staying in the same job for decades if that’s what suits you. I couldn’t do that, especially doing something as boring and mindless as warehouse work.


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## Hal (Sep 27, 2021)

ItChecksOut said:


> It's going to vary based on the DC, but generally.
> 
> Senior distribution director
> Operations Director (day shift/night shift)
> ...


Only thing is the the OMs don't actually report to the production controller. The PC builds the plans for the shift and monitors backlogs but doesn't have any real authority over the OM team.

Its like a 1st among equals situation. The PC is still a Level 5 in the same pay range. Its just considered an elevated role.


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## Luck (Sep 27, 2021)

Hal said:


> I would also say that if they've been an OM for 30 years, they're easily bringing down 6 figures and are at the point where they can run their departments in their sleep.
> 
> 100k+ to cruise through my work week sounds like a pretty sweet gig.


That argument assumes the only WW function is doors. Plenty of WW roles that don't involve a lick of effort. For example GPMing PIPO. 
Its TOmato vs TomAto.

You can be an OM and work A2/B2 and get $100k salary for a desk job or work B1/A1 and make ~$85k for the same hours for a jobs that involves abit more physical work. 
Both having opportunities to grow within the company if desired.

I see no reason to throw such a fit that someone pointed out that for the pay, OMs start at less than WWs make. Especially to go as far as insult those who prefer to do the physical work. Must be really shitty having an OM like you that looks down on their workers and thinks so little of them.


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## ItChecksOut (Sep 27, 2021)

Luck said:


> That argument assumes the only WW function is doors. Plenty of WW roles that don't involve a lick of effort. For example GPMing PIPO.
> Its TOmato vs TomAto.
> 
> You can be an OM and work A2/B2 and get $100k salary for a desk job or work B1/A1 and make ~$85k for the same hours for a jobs that involves abit more physical work.
> ...


I feel like you're inferring a lot of negative ideas from statements that aren't actually being implied.

I'm not really even sure where the disconnect in some of this conversation is coming from, for the most part what I see is a consensus of:
Yes, a fresh out of college hire/ limited experience hire/ a previously Warehouse worker/associate promoted to an OM can make less than a maxed out TM working a bit of OT.

however, in this case you are only taking into account one outlier, that being a new hire OM can earn less than a maxed out progression TM working OT.
Personally I don't see this as a problem, as a Warehouse worker/associate should look at this as a "Look at how valued I am here." instead of a lol get wrecked I make more than you anyway.
Also, as stated by someone else, there are OM's that far out earn maxed out progression TM's working OT.

All I've seen for the most part is an argument that, yes there are better roles and functions to be in as a Warehouse Worker that aren't as physical as say a new hire in Outbound. However, once they are in those roles/functions unless they decide to put in for a merit level position/lead/om, than that's really as far as they can go *career wise* with target. 

Neither path should be looked down at, if someone is fine with being a maxed out WW then great, that's their decision to ultimately make. But, on the flip side when its being so adamantly argued that there's no reason to be an OM because specifically "They make less than me on OT." You don't have to personally agree with their reason, but saying they want to progress further than they currently have with Target and being an OM is one of the best ways to do that, isn't an invalid reason.


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## MikeLebowski (Sep 27, 2021)

Luck said:


> I see no reason to throw such a fit that someone pointed out that for the pay, OMs start at less than WWs make. Especially to go as far as insult those who prefer to do the physical work. Must be really shitty having an OM like you that looks down on their workers and thinks so little of them.



I'm Confused,

I don't see where @Hal , or anyone else for that matter, has said anything to this note. Again, this entire conversation has been one specific individual arguing;

" Why be an OM when I can earn just as much with my job?"

Everyone else has been advising on the applicable advancement capabilities the OM path offers...

Perhaps it will make more sense when it is put this direction; Target Senior Distributions Directors salary ranges between 215K-334K without bonuses. Bonuses have the potential to incur an additional 100k annually depending on variables...

There is no world in which a WW, is capable of remotely competing in the financial market without progressing through the OM path... If there is... please enlighten me.

Information is found here. If you want to debate it further...


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## Hal (Sep 28, 2021)

Luck said:


> That argument assumes the only WW function is doors. Plenty of WW roles that don't involve a lick of effort. For example GPMing PIPO.
> Its TOmato vs TomAto.
> 
> You can be an OM and work A2/B2 and get $100k salary for a desk job or work B1/A1 and make ~$85k for the same hours for a jobs that involves abit more physical work.
> ...


I don't know where you're getting the idea I'm looking down on roles in the warehouse. Specifically because I've done all those roles. I was a team member far longer than I was an OM. I worked in every department, did lanes, cartonair, worked in the arts, pulled FP and GPM'd, unloaded on the docks. I was a trainer for most of my TM career, I held two different merit roles, I helped rollout processes that were implemented across the network.

And after a few years realized that I hit the limit of my development as a TM and I chose to make the effort get promoted to an OM.

Within a year and a half I got 3 raises as an OM and make more money and on average work way less hours than 60 hours. I've worked all 4 shifts at some point and have been offered the chance to switch to any of them and made the choice to stay on weekends because I like my 4 days off. I get the opportunity to be a back up for support OM roles such as PC or TOM or ICQA. I'm currently working to move to a support OM role which will give me way more flexibility on my schedule and even give me the chance to work from home if I want.

So you're "being a TM makes way more money than an OM so becoming an OM is dumb" argument doesn't hold much weight with me. If that's what keeps you where you're at and you're happy with it, great. I wish you all the best. But I feel all you're focused on is the immediate paycheck. When I first became an OM yeah there were TMs making more than me as they should. But that's not even the case anymore as I got more experience and better at my job.

My paycheck is now based on how good I am at my job and how much effort I'm putting into it which it and I'm way happier for it and the opportunities I now have versus where I was at as a TM. If people want to stay as a TM I'm happy for them, but don't belittle people who want to do more because "lol they'll make less money." There should be far more things involved in a person's choice to move up.


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## Luck (Oct 1, 2021)

Hal said:


> I don't know where you're getting the idea I'm looking down on roles in the warehouse. Specifically because I've done all those roles. I was a team member far longer than I was an OM. I worked in every department, did lanes, cartonair, worked in the arts, pulled FP and GPM'd, unloaded on the docks. I was a trainer for most of my TM career, I held two different merit roles, I helped rollout processes that were implemented across the network.
> 
> And after a few years realized that I hit the limit of my development as a TM and I chose to make the effort get promoted to an OM.
> 
> ...


It was a really bad day and I was mostly projecting frustration with incompetent managers i have to deal with on you 🕺

You did at one point in the thread make it seem like people who were content to "throw boxes all day for the rest of their life" was a negative thing but its the internet and somebody can take you donating a million dollars to save puppies as a negative thing because you didn't give any to help the cats too. 

I humbly back down in this argument.


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## Hal (Oct 2, 2021)

No worries. I get it. I also got sick and tired of dealing with negative leaders. My first experience when I started OMs was terrible. Both of them were a couple of morons and I was pretty sure they were going to fire me in my 90 days.

After a few years of working with incompetent leaders off and on (I'm not saying they all were, I had some fantastic OMs over the years who really helped me get where I am), I realized if they could do the job so could I.

It helps as an OM remembering all the shitty experiences I had as a TM, and trying to not to give my team the same experience.

Might be something to consider, maybe by moving up you can make the job at least that much easier for the people working under you.


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## targetdude1 (Oct 23, 2021)

Hal said:


> So I'm a TM who was promoted to OM. Every TM who says you can make the same money as a TM with OT is wrong unless they're working 60 hour work weeks and never do anything else with their lives. Believe me I did it.
> 
> Started around 70k. And one of the interns who onboarded told me they started around 65k. Range runs from 60 to 100k depending on experience. Hope that answers your question.




Yup, a OM around here who hasn't been a OM for even THAT long seemingly, told a TM he was making 80k. And this story too was a couple yrs ago.

Be sensible, they cant pay the Chiefs less than the indians, or even close to the indians. Since a TM maxing OT can probably make 60k (maybe a chunk more now havent though about the numbers lately), "more than that" is a sensible starting point.

As far as 40-48 hr weeks though, he probably was exaggerating but I remember one OM giving the sob story about how they had to come in for meetings all the time on their days off. He made it sound pretty bad or like the job actually required a ton of hours.


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## targetdude1 (Oct 23, 2021)

hatemyjob said:


> An OM who graduated from a good university is beginning a career. A WW can look forward to moving boxes around for many years.
> 
> I just looked up a former executive I knew who began as a GL-IT in 2004. Fifteen years later she became a VP of Logistics and Strategy at another retailer. Many other GLs I knew have had similar career growth.




Now WW workers can become the OM's though, even without degrees. Not sure how common it's going to be going forward but there are already examples in our building (some already for many years).


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## Dcnewb4now (Oct 24, 2021)

targetdude1 said:


> Yup, a OM around here who hasn't been a OM for even THAT long seemingly, told a TM he was making 80k. And this story too was a couple yrs ago.
> 
> Be sensible, they cant pay the Chiefs less than the indians, or even close to the indians. Since a TM maxing OT can probably make 60k (maybe a chunk more now havent though about the numbers lately), "more than that" is a sensible starting point.
> 
> As far as 40-48 hr weeks though, he probably was exaggerating but I remember one OM giving the sob story about how they had to come in for meetings all the time on their days off. He made it sound pretty bad or like the job actually required a ton of hours.


In our building a new om (well he just quit) was making 72k and worked between 50 and 52 hours a week. I make 63k working 40 a week. If I average 48 hours a week for the year I make 82k.


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## Luck (Oct 25, 2021)

targetdude1 said:


> Yup, a OM around here who hasn't been a OM for even THAT long seemingly, told a TM he was making 80k. And this story too was a couple yrs ago.
> 
> Be sensible, they cant pay the Chiefs less than the indians, or even close to the indians. Since a TM maxing OT can probably make 60k (maybe a chunk more now havent though about the numbers lately), "more than that" is a sensible starting point.
> 
> As far as 40-48 hr weeks though, he probably was exaggerating but I remember one OM giving the sob story about how they had to come in for meetings all the time on their days off. He made it sound pretty bad or like the job actually required a ton of hours.


The problem with that Indians vs chiefs metaphor is that there are loads of chiefs all competing to get the same job, and there aren't enough Indians!


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