# How to go from TM to TL



## MarketMayhem (Sep 20, 2019)

I have, since the beginning been trying to prove myself to the leaders I am worthy of that kind of position. When my yearly review came I had no areas to work on. And the only comments were to keep doing what iv been doing. I even recommended myself over to market team when we were doing the department separations of team members as I had worked all the other hardlines departments and hadn't felt challenged anymore. Iv worked GSA, I was the SPL tm, I even was the Project 52/ magnolia merchandiser. And now that we have a whole new leadership team it seems like I'm starting over and am doing my best not to lose motivation. 
HELP


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## OccidentalAvenue (Sep 20, 2019)

Target Leadership teams are nothing more than a revolving door of glorified high school cliques. Thus, they wont ever let you sit at the cool kids table lest they deem you worthy of joining their exclusive society of key-carriers and Starbucks drinkers. Make no mistake, performance has little to do with whether or not they promote you, if you don't "look" and act the part of a Target TL, you wont get in. They have to protect their brand, after all, god forbid they hand an actual, decent, hard-working TM the keys to the kingdom.


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## Planosss enraged (Sep 20, 2019)

Hi, have you applied for any TL position, in your store or other stores?
Edit: or are you waiting for someone to see the potential in you?


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## happygoth (Sep 20, 2019)

@Planosss , you hit the nail on the head there. @MarketMayhem , let them know you are interested. Ask what you need to do, what the next steps are to getting yourself in the running for promotions.


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## allnew2 (Sep 21, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> Project 52/ magnolia merchandiser.


No project 52 in target . 62 yes but that’s not magnolia either . You mean department 324 which is “ heck and hell”


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## allnew2 (Sep 21, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> When my yearly review came I had no areas to work on.


Never in Target world would a tm have nothing to improve on . Especially if you’ve mentioned that you are interested into a leadership position .


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## allnew2 (Sep 21, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> And now that we have a whole new leadership team it seems like I'm starting over and am doing my best not to lose motivation.


This is actually your chance to move up because of new leadership they know nothing about you . Step up , take initiative , manage your time , strategize , execute and communicate effectively and always , always let your etl know what you’ve done and express your interest in moving up .


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## MarketMayhem (Sep 21, 2019)

allnew2 said:


> Never in Target world would a tm have nothing to improve on . Especially if you’ve mentioned that you are interested into a leadership position .


That's what I thought. That's wh


allnew2 said:


> No project 52 in target . 62 yes but that’s not magnolia either . You mean department 324 which is “ heck and hell”


Yeah that was a typo on my part. Project 62. And Hearth and hand. Our sign says magnolia under hearth and home


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## MarketMayhem (Sep 21, 2019)

Planosss said:


> Hi, have you applied for any TL position, in your store or other stores?
> Edit: or are you waiting for someone to see the potential in you?


I have applied. And they literally told me I have to show that I am doing the job before they give me the job. That's from my SD


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## Planosss enraged (Sep 21, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> I have applied. And they literally told me I have to show that I am doing the job before they give me the job. That's from my SD


Did you get an interview? Cause they are supposed to give you an interview when you apply.


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## Marcellow (Sep 21, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> I have applied. And they literally told me I have to show that I am doing the job before they give me the job. That's from my SD



I got the same exact thing to be honest. The thing is they already have who they want in mind for any openings so you’ll want to kiss up to the ETLs and have them know who you are so when another opening comes around they say they want you as their TL.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Sep 21, 2019)

Marcellow said:


> I got the same exact thing to be honest. The thing is they already have who they want in mind for any openings so you’ll want to kiss up to the ETLs and have them know who you are so when another opening comes around they say they want you as their TL.


In my store even when they posted openings or needed to fill a TL position, it was common knowledge among the leadership who was going to get it before the posting hit the wall. A lot of the time they didn’t even say there was an opening, but the next thing you knew, a  new TL appeared out of nowhere. The best candidates were rarely chosen, but the leadership team always seemed to have room for somebody’s kool-aid drinking, ass-kissing pet. When there were postings and interviews they were apparently just done to make the process seem fair, and to keep stringing along the people who were doing TL work for TM pay... 🙄


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## Proficient (Sep 21, 2019)

My store has a bunch of GM TLs over 6 but no fken Fulfillment Operations Lead like wtf..


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## rog the dog (Sep 21, 2019)

OccidentalAvenue said:


> Target Leadership teams are nothing more than a revolving door of glorified high school cliques. Thus, they wont ever let you sit at the cool kids table lest they deem you worthy of joining their exclusive society of key-carriers and Starbucks drinkers. Make no mistake, performance has little to do with whether or not they promote you, if you don't "look" and act the part of a Target TL, you wont get in. They have to protect their brand, after all, god forbid they hand an actual, decent, hard-working TM the keys to the kingdom.



I see this suggested a lot and while it's possibly true in some cases, I think the current development process is being misinterpreted. If you don't identify with your HR or SD that you're interested in the TL position and then you apply, they're not going to support you. When I identified I was interested I took over a department, started to do TL things without being a TL, etc. You can complain about that if you want or just take it in stride and know that come interview time you're going to be 100% prepared for all of the questions they're going to ask you, and expect you to answer from the perspective of a leader rather than a good team member. 

The people you notice that are friendly with leadership have very likely already done that, and the reason you don't see job postings is that you really shouldn't if your store can avoid it. SD's often talk about having certain TL positions backfilled in their meetings if they suspect somebody is going to leave, change role, or be promoted. It's apart of their job.


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## REDcardJJ (Sep 21, 2019)

"but first, tell us you want to promote"

i promoted to TL about 6 (or 7?) months ago. i was in a unique position to be approached about my development first, but only because i stepped up and took charge of my department without being asked to. i partnered with a TL who mentored me and worked with my ETL and SD for about a month to get ready for interviews. you need to have regular, ongoing conversations about your development with your leaders. remember, there's 120 (at least) other team members in the building, so if you want to promote you need to take charge and own it.


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## TookieClothespin (Sep 22, 2019)

For me promoting to TL took about a year. I was peer leading my team during that time and my TL had my peers come to me before going to her for any questions or problems that they were running into and had statuses every couple weeks with my TL. Make sure you are talking to your TL for feedback and ask for more responsibilities to help you develop. I had leadership changes while I was developing as well, and it was really hard because it does feel like you're starting over. What I was told was basically not to worry about it. As long as you have had conversations (not just with your TL, I was talking with her as well as my ETL and SD to make sure all of us were on the same page) and everyone is aware of what you're working towards, you'll be fine. 

Sometimes it really has to do with waiting for the right opening. Make sure they know what you want but you also have to be flexible.


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## lifeblows10 (Sep 22, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> I have applied. And they literally told me I have to show that I am doing the job before they give me the job. That's from my SD


I’m currently working with two TMs who are wanting to become TL, but they both are lacking on just the basics. For me, you have to do your current role 100%, all day, every day. It’s that simple. I can’t really ask you to boss the team, but you can surely make sure that everything is getting done and have an open line of communication with me to inform me of your findings.

When I walk my department for food safety and I find soda BIBs that are out of date, a slew of undated items that stretch back to the day before, and you’re not wearing a name badge... remind me again why I should be working on developing you? My team knows the expectations, they just choose when to follow it and when they don’t care.

For you, I would say that your SD is both right and wrong. You want to be a TL? Start asking questions. Have constant conversations with your direct leader and find out what you can be doing better. Applying for the position without talking to both your leader and HR will gain you nothing, even though I feel everyone should have a shot at interviewing just so you can really see the process.


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## Planosss enraged (Sep 22, 2019)

lifeblows10 said:


> I’m currently working with two TMs who are wanting to become TL, but they both are lacking on just the basics. For me, you have to do your current role 100%, all day, every day. It’s that simple. I can’t really ask you to boss the team, but you can surely make sure that everything is getting done and have an open line of communication with me to inform me of your findings.
> 
> When I walk my department for food safety and I find soda BIBs that are out of date, a slew of undated items that stretch back to the day before, and you’re not wearing a name badge... remind me again why I should be working on developing you? *My team knows the expectations, they just choose when to follow it and when they don’t care.*
> 
> For you, I would say that your SD is both right and wrong. You want to be a TL? Start asking questions. Have constant conversations with your direct leader and find out what you can be doing better. Applying for the position without talking to both your leader and HR will gain you nothing, even though I feel everyone should have a shot at interviewing just so you can really see the process.


This true for about 95% of TMs... what else you got?


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## MarketMayhem (Sep 26, 2019)

Planosss said:


> Did you get an interview? Cause they are supposed to give you an interview when you apply.


Nope no interview. Just sat down in the SD office and he said what I mentioned before. When I brought it up a few days ago they did say they would make it a goal to have me "signed off" by November of next year


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## Planosss enraged (Sep 26, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> Nope no interview. Just sat down in the SD office and he said what I mentioned before. When I brought it up a few days ago they did say they would make it a goal to have me "signed off" by November of next year


Good things come to those who wait 😅..


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## Nauzhror (Sep 26, 2019)

So..."Yeah, we'll try to look into that within the next 14 months.".

That doesn't sound reassuring at all.  This November sounds reassuring, not next November.


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## MarketMayhem (Sep 26, 2019)

Planosss said:


> Good things come to those who wait 😅..


Honestly. And it was frustrating me at first since I had been showing my SD  I was able to handle it, there were days he would check in with me on my TL days off to assure everything was on track. Statusing and getting feed back from him. And JUST when I thought i was getting through to him, he leaves to another store !!!


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## Planosss enraged (Sep 26, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> Honestly. And it was frustrating me at first since I had been showing my SD  I was able to handle it, there were days he would check in with me on my TL days off to assure everything was on track. Statusing and getting feed back from him. And JUST when I thought i was getting through to him, he leaves to another store !!!


Some people are not capable of recognizing talent so they end up losing talent. Promoting is such an ASANTS thing, modernization has put development of new talent on the back burner... its a dash to adapt and survive, maybe when the dust settles pipelines and benches will be re-established....good luck.


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## MarketMayhem (Sep 26, 2019)

Thank you for the positive vibes ! But in all honesty, the amount of work they give to department owners looks REAL good on a resume. And in any other store just those things alone I feel would qualify someone for a management position


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## Fix It (Sep 26, 2019)

Commenting without reading other responses:

You can kill it everyday and be a good worker but you need to show that you can lead and manage TMs. Fill in the gaps where your current TL lacks, and give further direction to TMs when your TL didn’t. Do that without  stepping on the TLs toes and communicate what you did to your TL. Kiss the SD’s ass a bit too because they’re where the line ends. I’d the SD don’t like you then you’re SOL unless you apply to another store. Good luck


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## Kartman (Sep 26, 2019)

And remember! At any time new ETLs or even SDs can appear in the picture and ruin all you've worked for, if they don't care for you.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Sep 27, 2019)

Stupid question? Did you get an great review?


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## happygoth (Sep 27, 2019)

Fix It said:


> Commenting without reading other responses:
> 
> You can kill it everyday and be a good worker but you need to show that you can lead and manage TMs. Fill in the gaps where your current TL lacks, and give further direction to TMs when your TL didn’t. Do that without  stepping on the TLs toes and communicate what you did to your TL. Kiss the SD’s ass a bit too because they’re where the line ends. I’d the SD don’t like you then you’re SOL unless you apply to another store. Good luck


It's been my experience that, unless there are brand new TMs who are looking to the old-timers for guidance, giving further direction to fellow TMs without stepping on their toes is tough to accomplish. It's never gone over well when I've seen it in action.


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## Marcellow (Sep 27, 2019)

MarketMayhem said:


> Nope no interview. Just sat down in the SD office and he said what I mentioned before. When I brought it up a few days ago they did say they would make it a goal to have me "signed off" by November of next year



By that response, you’re better off looking elsewhere for opportunities. That’s too long and there’s no guarantee you’ll get it by next November.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Sep 27, 2019)

Sorry, but November of next year is just too far away, and Spot is infamous for stringing people along...


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## Dog (Sep 28, 2019)

Kartman said:


> And remember! At any time new ETLs or even SDs can appear in the picture and ruin all you've worked for, if they don't care for you.


This is what happened to me 🤣


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## smashandthrash (Oct 6, 2019)

Indeed search for lead positions at other companies. I’m sure you’ll get some interviews.


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## jackandcat (Oct 31, 2019)

You might actually fare better getting hired for a TL-type position at another company. While this is ASANTS, I'm seeing very little promotion-from-within at the stores in our local area.  Depending on what type of store you would like to work in, and whether you have a BA degree or similar, you might be a very attractive candidate for a more-responsible job at places like Kohl's, Best Buy, Bed Bath & Beyond, Nordstrom, Costco Wholesale or Walmart. If you are still working at Target, as an external candidate you have a fair amount of room for salary negotiation at other companies, this is the time to make up for the wimpy pay raises which seem to be common for many Target TMs.


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## jackandcat (Nov 6, 2019)

While I believe Target's approach of pursuing external hires for leadership positions may well be successful, I couldn't help sharing this video of the current Walmart CEO John Furner, who literally began his career 27 years ago working at the Garden Center in a Bentonville Walmart. Promote-from-within hasn't prevented Walmart from becoming a hugely successful company ($339 billion market capitalization). On his first day as Walmart U.S. CEO, John Furner took a trip down memory lane at Store 100 in Bentonville, AR


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## REDcardJJ (Nov 6, 2019)

jackandcat said:


> While I believe Target's approach of pursuing external hires for leadership positions may well be successful, I couldn't help sharing this video of the current Walmart CEO John Furner, who literally began his career 27 years ago working at the Garden Center in a Bentonville Walmart. Promote-from-within hasn't prevented Walmart from becoming a hugely successful company ($339 billion market capitalization). On his first day as Walmart U.S. CEO, John Furner took a trip down memory lane at Store 100 in Bentonville, AR



tbf Brian Cornell is our first CEO to actually be hired from outside of the company


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## Fluttervale (Nov 6, 2019)

I'm one of the most recent promotions at my store.  I have a 20 year background in ETL level management and it took a full year to promote.

They did interview at least 3 other internal candidates.  In previous employment I have made the promotion choice on about 8 TLs.  Here's what I looked for:

1.  Do you have good retail sense?  Do you make sensible decisions (push before price change, but price change gets done too.) 

2.  Can you keep your mouth shut?  I cannot have a TL that violates confidentiality or gossips about their TMs to other TMs.  I also will not promote someone that is close to someone they will oversee, either family or friends outside work, and especially not if they are outwardly dating someone in the store.

3.  Do you get your work done well?  You can't get your team to work fast if you can't work fast.

4.  Do you have ideas on improving your area?  Something simple like "there was a bunch of outdate in the cooler, so I'm going to go through it after I finish today's truck" shows good thinking and prioritization skills.

5.  Are you able to handle guests?  If you can't be bitched out by a guest without losing your temper or having an anxiety attack, you will probably have trouble handling hard conversations and write ups.


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## ThreeCreeks (Nov 6, 2019)

I was promoted from TM to TL just 6 months after I started.

You just need to prove yourself. In 2 years I’ve never called out, been late, missed a punch, hit compliance, complained about hours etc. Maintain a positive attitude and work hard. If you have issues talk to the SD about it. No one likes someone who gossips. Have negative things to say? Talk to the SD. Don’t be negative around fellow TMs. It drives down productivity. Stay late when asked. Be flexible and willing to work wherever you need. Ask questions and ask for feedback.


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## Poofresh (Nov 11, 2019)

Team Leaders need to be disbanded.  They do nothing but yell on the walkie and tell you to do their job which is set up end caps and price changes. Target needs to overhaul their hierarchy. And let team members take charge of their own departments. It's so dumb to hear managers on the walkie tell a TL to ask a TM to do a certain job. Then the TL calls for you to do this job.  We heard you guys talk.  TLs are nothing more than lip service for managers.  Literally all they do is tell u to do this, do that.  After awhile  ur life becomes a routine and TLs are worthless extra pay grade that should just go on TMs who work harder.


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## happygoth (Nov 12, 2019)

PeeFRESH said:


> Team Leaders need to be disbanded.  They do nothing but yell on the walkie and tell you to do their job which is set up end caps and price changes. Target needs to overhaul their hierarchy. And let team members take charge of their own departments. It's so dumb to hear managers on the walkie tell a TL to ask a TM to do a certain job. Then the TL calls for you to do this job.  We heard you guys talk.  TLs are nothing more than lip service for managers.  Literally all they do is tell u to do this, do that.  After awhile  ur life becomes a routine and TLs are worthless extra pay grade that should just go on TMs who work harder.


It's so annoying having a TL tell someone on the walkie to do something that they literally do every shift - makes me want to say "Really? Is that what I'm supposed to do? Thanks for the head's up, it's not like I close every night and do the same thing every night, so THANK YOU!"


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## StyleMaven1 (Nov 12, 2019)

I see a lot of complaints about team leaders here but consider my scenario: over 20 years of retail experience, almost a decade of it with Spot starting around 16 years ago. Came back after many years away and I have to build a whole team. The only people who have been around any length of time are fitting room attendants. The dbos when I started were behind on price change, had salvage hanging in the backroom, BRLA in the red, no one knew how to tie or set pogs, pull price change etc and the longest standing had been there around 6 months. With seasonal hiring I now have a bit over 30 in my A&A crew, 75% are under their 90 days. Many of those 75% are starting this week or have maybe been here 2 weeks. Leadership is absolutely necessary. Not all of us are sipping Starbucks and waving around reports. I'm a very hands on person. I was lucky to start at Target ages ago with other leads who had already been there a decade or more and I can only hope to be that consistent source of information and motivation for my team. I'm sorry for those that have leaders who are not playing an active role in the success of their stores other than just directing.


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## Grable69 (Nov 12, 2019)

I agree that all team leads are ETEL‘s just sit in the office are at Starbucks drinking coffee. People need to realize that if you don’t show that you can do the job you’re never going to get the job. If you want to advance talk to your team lead in your ETL about it. They’ll tell you what they expect 
You just show that you can do. I have several add the kids in that apartment that I and the other team lead our mentoring to move up some are willing to take charge and lead in others always say that’s not what I get paid for. Who do you think is going to get promoted first or at all ha haYou just show that you can do. I have several add the kids in my apartment that I and the other team lead our mentoring to move up some are willing to take charge and lead in others always say that’s not what I get paid for. Who do you think is going to get promoted first or at all?


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## rog the dog (Nov 14, 2019)

happygoth said:


> It's so annoying having a TL tell someone on the walkie to do something that they literally do every shift - makes me want to say "Really? Is that what I'm supposed to do? Thanks for the head's up, it's not like I close every night and do the same thing every night, so THANK YOU!"


I don't know your specific circumstances, but I had this exact complaint brought up to me once and I just wanted to share my point of view. Sorry if it doesn't apply!

You must have some co-workers that literally just start walking around if they aren't given direction, right? To circumvent that we simply give very clear directions to everybody what's expected of them, which in turn makes it a lot easier to write up coachings and CCA's for performance for those said people if they still choose to goof off.

Example:

"I told you when you were zoning in Toys tonight to make sure you were paying attention to the front and back endcaps, it's now closing time and they look as if they have not been touched - What happened? I was very clear with my expectations for tonight"

This is a lot easier to put into workday and have it stick than saying "they were assigned toys and it didn't look good when I left."

You might think that makes sense but you know what you're good for, and we get that, it's simply much easier to do it this way than single out TM's over the walkie with specific instructions and not others, there are those few who will accuse management of "Targeting" so it's just a safer route.


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## MarketMayhem (Jan 1, 2020)

Marcellow said:


> I got the same exact thing to be honest. The thing is they already have who they want in mind for any openings so you’ll want to kiss up to the ETLs and have them know who you are so when another opening comes around they say they want you as their TL.


This is exactly what I did. We shall see how it pays off tomorrow during my interview!


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## Cinnamon2005 (Jan 2, 2020)

I have been in my store for over a decade. In that time frame I have seen 5 or 6 team members actually be promoted to team leader. I have seen one team leader be promoted to ETL. If you are over 25, I doubt any promotion will happen. Target wants young, fresh out of college people.


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## Yetive (Jan 2, 2020)

Not true in my area.  Average age of leaders is over 30.


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## Priceslasher (Jan 2, 2020)

happygoth said:


> It's so annoying having a TL tell someone on the walkie to do something that they literally do every shift - makes me want to say "Really? Is that what I'm supposed to do? Thanks for the head's up, it's not like I close every night and do the same thing every night, so THANK YOU!"


Prime example of exactly why you’re getting that heads up every night. Maybe step up your game... go, check in with that leader and say... hey, same expectations as last night? You never know that leader might just say... THANKYOU! Thinking to themselves.. wow! That’s one less team member I have to track down and call over walkie to make sure they have shown up for their shift. You should be thankful you aren’t getting called every .02 seconds with a status of where and what you are working on. And on that note TARGET and the rest of worlds business owners have ALOT OF dead weight. But, I know some of these complained about team leaders are literally the only reason some are still employed


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## happygoth (Jan 3, 2020)

Priceslasher said:


> Prime example of exactly why you’re getting that heads up every night. Maybe step up your game... go, check in with that leader and say... hey, same expectations as last night? You never know that leader might just say... THANKYOU! Thinking to themselves.. wow! That’s one less team member I have to track down and call over walkie to make sure they have shown up for their shift. You should be thankful you aren’t getting called every .02 seconds with a status of where and what you are working on. And on that note TARGET and the rest of worlds business owners have ALOT OF dead weight. But, I know some of these complained about team leaders are literally the only reason some are still employed


Not at all the situation here. I'm only speaking of one particular ETL who rarely closes, and that's just their MO. And they even more rarely give me any direction. The regular Closing TL knows if I'm on they do not have to worry about my area. The most they do is give me a "How's it going?" if we happen to pass each other.


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## Calico Tapeworm (Jan 9, 2020)

happygoth said:


> It's so annoying having a TL tell someone on the walkie to do something that they literally do every shift - makes me want to say "Really? Is that what I'm supposed to do? Thanks for the head's up, it's not like I close every night and do the same thing every night, so THANK YOU!"


Which isn’t leadership at all. I actually find it embarrassing for the TM on the receiving end for the whole store to hear.


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