# In our ceiling and bathrooms.



## Jazzers (Mar 10, 2022)

Our new PMT has 5 voyeurism Charges and is a felon. 
1, 2 and 3 charges were him at a department store taking up skirts.
4. A lady was in her bed fully dress under the covers on her iPad. She heard something out her window and text her husband who went outside to catch him peeping in the window while pleasing himself.
5.He put a phone in a bathroom at a department store. It had hours of videos.
‘This was in 2018. He got 2 years and 1 year probation. They let him off probation early.
Do you think that he should be a pmt? I think it gives him access to video or watch anyone.
‘I 100% believe they would have skipped a background check because he is dating someone at corporate.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Mar 10, 2022)

Jazzers said:


> Our new PMT has 5 voyeurism Charges and is a felon.
> 1, 2 and 3 charges were him at a department store taking up skirts.
> 4. A lady was in her bed fully dress under the covers on her iPad. She heard something out her window and text her husband who went outside to catch him peeping in the window while pleasing himself.
> 5.He put a phone in a bathroom at a department store. It had hours of videos.
> ...


Welcome!
They have no access to video.


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## Jazzers (Mar 10, 2022)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Welcome!
> They have no access to video.


If he put a video recording device of his own somewhere he would. This is what he has previously done. I’m thinking about quest. I check everywhere in our bathroom before I pee I know that!


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## Jazzers (Mar 10, 2022)

Jazzers said:


> If he put a video recording device of his own somewhere he would. This is what he has previously done. I’m thinking about quest. I check everywhere in our bathroom before I pee I know that!


Thanks for the welcome.


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## DBZ (Mar 10, 2022)

I wouldn't hire him. You can bet AP is watching him like a hawk.


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## commiecorvus (Mar 10, 2022)

Just curious, how do you know about his criminal background?
Did he tell you himself?
Were you personally involved in in a case where he charged?
Or do you live in such a small town that something like this makes the papers enough to stick in everyone's head?
I always worry when I see posts like this because there's so much certainty.
Spot tends to shy away from anything that would get them sued and this seems like a prime situation for a lawsuit.
Dating an executive or not, it's too much of a risk for them.
So, I'm of two mind's.

If he is who you think he is;
He deserves to be able to work, having done his time.
Just perhaps not as a PMT, where he has way too much access to opportunities to falling back on bad habits.


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## Jazzers (Mar 10, 2022)

commiecorvus said:


> Just curious, how do you know about his criminal background?
> Did he tell you himself?
> Were you personally involved in in a case where he charged?
> Or do you live in such a small town that something like this makes the papers enough to stick in everyone's head?
> ...


It’s a small town. A guest told a TM and the TM googled. I don’t know how many TM’s were told besides me. The TM had his mugshot and the files.
I know about the dating because she came to our store for a visit and he told me they had a kid together and were dating.


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## IhateOPmodel (Mar 10, 2022)

I'm not 100% sure how background checks work but I think if they are not something violent or specifically involving retail theft etc then it won't flag.  You either pass or you don't, I don't think you get a read out of their entire criminal history.

Also he could have very well committed all of those crimes but pled down the charges and that is also why they didn't flag on a background check.

But I will say I wouldn't be happy with working with that PML and I'm sure everyone will be totally on edge when around him or when going to the bathroom.  I'm sure word will travel fast around the store and everyone will know soon enough.

Target is a very progressive company and believes in second chances etc. I'm sure they did their due diligence.  Who ever is in charge of running the background check I'm sure didnt brush anything under the rug as it probably is a requirement of processing the application.  It's probably all digital which makes it nearly impossible to move forward without it.

The PML doesn't have any special access to anything that any other team member or guest would.  Anyone could put a camera in the bathroom or fitting room.


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## Fluttervale (Mar 10, 2022)

I would personally call the ethics hotline, especially if he does this to women and I am a woman.

This is what the ethics hotline is for.  The people in your store don’t have the ability to change that hiring decision.


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## Planosss enraged (Mar 10, 2022)

Fluttervale said:


> I would personally call the ethics hotline, especially if he does this to women and I am a woman.
> 
> This is what the ethics hotline is for.  The people in your store don’t have the ability to change that hiring decision.


I am a male , but I agree with you.


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## KarmaToBurn (Mar 10, 2022)

What a bunch geniuses, err I meant morons running this company....


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## KarmaToBurn (Mar 10, 2022)

IhateOPmodel said:


> The PML doesn't have any special access to anything that any other team member or guest would.  Anyone could put a camera in the bathroom or fitting room.


A few places, but more importantly no one is going to question or even think twice about the PML rooting around in ceiling tile since a lot of actual repairs happen up there, or drilling holes in walls...


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## Rarejem (Mar 10, 2022)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Welcome!
> They have no access to video.


Not "Target legal" access, anyhow...


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## versionDefect (Mar 10, 2022)

IhateOPmodel said:


> Anyone could put a camera in the bathroom or fitting room.


True but i can easily see work being done in a bathroom and installing a camera. Especially considering there is basically power everywhere in the ceilings it wouldn't be too difficult.

With that said, like someone else said AP is probably watching them like a Hawk and if they are doing any kinda shady work that's what the hotline exists for.


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## 60SecondsRemaining (Mar 11, 2022)

Kind of torn here.

On one hand - do people ever really change?

On the other hand, imagine you're this dude and you finally get a job, trying to rehabilitate yourself and some shithead with a smartphone gets you shit canned by digging in your past.

Hard to say, both sides are justified, kind of a shitty situation all around.


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## Fluttervale (Mar 12, 2022)

60SecondsRemaining said:


> Kind of torn here.
> 
> On one hand - do people ever really change?
> 
> ...


One of the main things about being a criminal or even just a person is that actions have consequences beyond just the actual punishment.

And part of becoming a better person is knowing that you will have unknown consequences in the future.  A convicted sex offender like this one — even if completely rehabilitated— will have lifelong consequences.  If he has children their friendships will be affected.  Nothing to be done for it.

But he could get a job as a cashier.  Or doing maintenance on the coolers and freezers.  Or work in construction.  Or many, many other jobs that do not involve digging in the walls and ceilings of women’s bathrooms and fitting rooms.


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## IhateOPmodel (Mar 13, 2022)

Fluttervale said:


> One of the main things about being a criminal or even just a person is that actions have consequences beyond just the actual punishment.
> 
> And part of becoming a better person is knowing that you will have unknown consequences in the future.  A convicted sex offender like this one — even if completely rehabilitated— will have lifelong consequences.  If he has children their friendships will be affected.  Nothing to be done for it.
> 
> But he could get a job as a cashier.  Or doing maintenance on the coolers and freezers.  Or work in construction.  Or many, many other jobs that do not involve digging in the walls and ceilings of women’s bathrooms and fitting rooms.


You don't have to be a PML to put a camera in a bathroom or fitting room.  If there is a will there is a way, criminals will find ways to do it if they really want.


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## commiecorvus (Mar 13, 2022)

Fluttervale said:


> One of the main things about being a criminal or even just a person is that actions have consequences beyond just the actual punishment.
> 
> And part of becoming a better person is knowing that you will have unknown consequences in the future.  A convicted sex offender like this one — even if completely rehabilitated— will have lifelong consequences.  If he has children their friendships will be affected.  Nothing to be done for it.
> 
> But he could get a job as a cashier.  Or doing maintenance on the coolers and freezers.  Or work in construction.  Or many, many other jobs that do not involve digging in the walls and ceilings of women’s bathrooms and fitting rooms.



Once someone has done their time they have the right to go back to rebuilding their life.
Part of the reason we have so much recidivism is that we don't allow this.
Other countries allow their convicted to maintain close family ties and don't treat them like slave labor.
Norway's recidivism rate is around 20%, while the United States' is at 76%.
We currently have about 2.8% of our people in the correctional system.
That means the US held 21.0% of the world's prisoners in 2015, even though the US represented only around 4.4 percent of the world's population in 2015.

I'm not even going to go down the rabbit hole of for profit prisons.
That would make this post way too long.
We need to fix this, sooner rather than later.


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## 60SecondsRemaining (Mar 13, 2022)

commiecorvus said:


> Once someone has done their time they have the right to go back to rebuilding their life.
> Part of the reason we have so much recidivism is that we don't allow this.
> Other countries allow their convicted to maintain close family ties and don't treat them like slave labor.
> Norway's recidivism rate is around 20%, while the United States' is at 76%.
> ...


The reason why Norway's recidivism incidence is so much lower than ours is that its system is based on restricting *freedom.  *Which sounds terrible until you realize ours is based on restricting *humanity*.  

It is a problem so exceedingly clear you wonder why there is even a question but hey, for profit prisons.  🤷‍♂️


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## commiecorvus (Mar 13, 2022)

60SecondsRemaining said:


> The reason why Norway's recidivism incidence is so much lower than ours is that its system is based on restricting *freedom.  *Which sounds terrible until you realize ours is based on restricting *humanity*.
> 
> It is a problem so exceedingly clear you wonder why there is even a question but hey, for profit prisons.  🤷‍♂️




I'm sorry but you're going to have to explain that better.
I don't see how a SocDem country like Norway is in any way restricting freedom.
In fact they routinely in the top five of the world's happiest countries.
And while I have my own gripes about the US, restricting humanity isn't one of them.
So please elucidate.


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## 60SecondsRemaining (Mar 13, 2022)

commiecorvus said:


> I'm sorry but you're going to have to explain that better.
> I don't see how a SocDem country like Norway is in any way restricting freedom.
> In fact they routinely in the top five of the world's happiest countries.
> And while I have my own gripes about the US, restricting humanity isn't one of them.
> So please elucidate.



Norway (and other northern European countries with similar programs) have a penal system which is built upon a basis of recovery.  Their system restricts your freedom (you can't just leave) but it doesn't break down your humanity.  Many of these systems leave personal autonomy in place.  You're still a person, the focus on building a person up into a better one, so they can leave in a better state than they came.

US prisons not only restrict freedom but they actively restrict humanity.  There is no autonomy.  The system is built upon a basis of punishment, many times with a profit plan that is based on selling prison labor with the prisoners being compensated pennies (I think the average is like .30 USD/H).  There is no focus on rehabilitation.  Many times people leave prison in a worse state than they arrived, because they have to put themselves into a personal survival mode that isn't compatible with the rest of the world.  It's glaringly obvious that it is a problem but prison in America will never be true rehabilitation until the money is removed - the people in power will acknowledge it's a problem and then stick their fingers in their ears and pretend they don't know why.


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## commiecorvus (Mar 13, 2022)

60SecondsRemaining said:


> Norway (and other northern European countries with similar programs) have a penal system which is built upon a basis of recovery.  Their system restricts your freedom (you can't just leave) but it doesn't break down your humanity.  Many of these systems leave personal autonomy in place.  You're still a person, the focus on building a person up into a better one, so they can leave in a better state than they came.
> 
> US prisons not only restrict freedom but they actively restrict humanity.  There is no autonomy.  The system is built upon a basis of punishment, many times with a profit plan that is based on selling prison labor with the prisoners being compensated pennies (I think the average is like .30 USD/H).  There is no focus on rehabilitation.  Many times people leave prison in a worse state than they arrived, because they have to put themselves into a personal survival mode that isn't compatible with the rest of the world.  It's glaringly obvious that it is a problem but prison in America will never be true rehabilitation until the money is removed - the people in power will acknowledge it's a problem and then stick their fingers in their ears and pretend they don't know why.



Gotcha.
Thanks for explaining.
That makes much more sense.
And it's a very good description of the two systems.


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## Reshop Ninja (Mar 13, 2022)

60SecondsRemaining said:


> *Norway (and other northern European countries with similar programs) have a penal system which is built upon a basis of recovery.  Their system restricts your freedom (you can't just leave) but it doesn't break down your humanity.  Many of these systems leave personal autonomy in place.  You're still a person, the focus on building a person up into a better one, so they can leave in a better state than they came.*
> 
> US prisons not only restrict freedom but they actively restrict humanity.  There is no autonomy.  The system is built upon a basis of punishment, many times with a profit plan that is based on selling prison labor with the prisoners being compensated pennies (I think the average is like .30 USD/H).  There is no focus on rehabilitation.  Many times people leave prison in a worse state than they arrived, because they have to put themselves into a personal survival mode that isn't compatible with the rest of the world.  It's glaringly obvious that it is a problem but prison in America will never be true rehabilitation until the money is removed - the people in power will acknowledge it's a problem and then stick their fingers in their ears and pretend they don't know why.


The way you're describing the prison system in Norway reminds me a lot of an in patient psychiatric care facility. Depending on the reason why you are admitted, you will have restrictions and a loss of some freedom. However, this is done both as a matter of safety and as a possible means of rehabilitation. I wonder if the people in Norway's government who came up with their current prison system had this in mind when they created it.


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## IhateOPmodel (Mar 14, 2022)

commiecorvus said:


> Once someone has done their time they have the right to go back to rebuilding their life.
> Part of the reason we have so much recidivism is that we don't allow this


I tend to disagree with this.  You think we should allow a convicted pedophile to be allow to go work at a day care?

A person convicted of retail theft, allowed to be a cashier?

I think some people should be restricted as to what they are allowed to do after conviction. I think they should be allowed to work and try to continue to rehabilitate but within limits.


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## commiecorvus (Mar 14, 2022)

IhateOPmodel said:


> I tend to disagree with this.  You think we should allow a convicted pedophile to be allow to go work at a day care?
> 
> A person convicted of retail theft, allowed to be a cashier?
> 
> I think some people should be restricted as to what they are allowed to do after conviction. I think they should be allowed to work and try to continue to rehabilitate but within limits.



I think each person should be judged on their individual merits.
The problem with saying a pedophile shouldn't be allowed to work in a daycare is the teenage girl who just turned 19 and was arrested for that very charge because she was sleeping with her 16 year old girl friend.
The younger girls parents had been waiting for the exact day she turned 19 to send the cops over so the charges would stick, even though the two girls had been together for a couple of years.
Or the autistic kid who took money out of the till because the numbers didn't match.
He wasn't stealing per se, he was freaked out because the till was wrong.
But they charged him anyway.

I can hear you saying these are rare cases but they happen, a lot and need to be considered.
At DVR we work with people who have served time due to their disabilities.
The correctional system is the largest provider of mental health services in America.
That, to put it mildly, is fucked up.
If we can't come up with a better way to deal with people who have mental health issues, we need to do better when they come out of the system.


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## Jazzers (Mar 10, 2022)

Our new PMT has 5 voyeurism Charges and is a felon. 
1, 2 and 3 charges were him at a department store taking up skirts.
4. A lady was in her bed fully dress under the covers on her iPad. She heard something out her window and text her husband who went outside to catch him peeping in the window while pleasing himself.
5.He put a phone in a bathroom at a department store. It had hours of videos.
‘This was in 2018. He got 2 years and 1 year probation. They let him off probation early.
Do you think that he should be a pmt? I think it gives him access to video or watch anyone.
‘I 100% believe they would have skipped a background check because he is dating someone at corporate.


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## Jazzers (Mar 14, 2022)

commiecorvus said:


> I think each person should be judged on their individual merits.
> The problem with saying a pedophile shouldn't be allowed to work in a daycare is the teenage girl who just turned 19 and was arrested for that very charge because she was sleeping with her 16 year old girl friend.
> The younger girls parents had been waiting for the exact day she turned 19 to send the cops over so the charges would stick, even though the two girls had been together for a couple of years.
> Or the autistic kid who took money out of the till because the numbers didn't match.
> ...


5 different charges. That’s no accident! He got caught and arrested 5 times. It has to be something he can’t easily control.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Mar 14, 2022)

Jazzers said:


> Our new PMT has 5 voyeurism Charges and is a felon.
> 1, 2 and 3 charges were him at a department store taking up skirts.
> 4. A lady was in her bed fully dress under the covers on her iPad. She heard something out her window and text her husband who went outside to catch him peeping in the window while pleasing himself.
> 5.He put a phone in a bathroom at a department store. It had hours of videos.
> ...


Heresay doesn’t count. If you are concerned about it, talk to your sd or ap about. Please provide supporting documentation to support your claim.
everyone  is given a second chance.
Also, we are the Internet. Your mgt hired them, not you.


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## commiecorvus (Mar 14, 2022)

Jazzers said:


> 5 different charges. That’s no accident! He got caught and arrested 5 times. It has to be something he can’t easily control.



Which is why I said each person needs to be judged on their individual merits.
Still however squicked out you might be by someone's crimes or predilections, it's best not to be a part of a hanging posse.
Who knows which person's neck will be stretched next?
Could even be your own.


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