# Should HR Experts be leaders?



## HRExpert (Dec 10, 2021)

I have a question...kind of looking to start a discussion and see if I am nuts or if others have wondered about this as well.

I am one of 2 HR Experts in a store with no HR TLs, just an HR ETL. (I think this is very common in the chain stores, at least in my state.)

I've noticed that the level of responsibility we have as HR team members is quite a bit higher than most, if not all, other team members in the store, and is in fact higher than even some Team Leaders in other departments. And yet we are brought in at the same starting hourly rate as any entry level team member. (Please know that nothing I am saying is meant to disparage anyone else! I am not trying to insult other roles! What I mean to say is that it feels like we have a unique level of responsibility?)

To be honest, I feel that HR Experts, as we currently function, should be Team Leaders. Here are some examples of why:

- Our training takes a full four weeks, and after that there is still so much to learn! A district HR person told me that it takes *at least* six months for an HR Expert to really know what they're doing. Why? Because the job entails SO MUCH.
- We have keys to the key box in TSC and give out every set of keys (tech keys, self check-out keys, optical keys, wav keys, etc.) and maintain records of who takes them and when they are returned; some Team Leaders on the floor do not even have access to this box.
- We control access to the locked equipment room where people get their MyDevices, walkies, box cutters, etc., and we maintain records of all of those things being signed in and out.
- We are responsible for maintaining vital records which, if not kept properly, could expose the store to lawsuits and government fines. E.g. minor work permits, ADA documentation, etc.
- We monitor compliance and are directed to "have conversations with" team members or even leaders who are out of compliance. (How am I expected to "reprimand" somebody who is on the same level as me or even above me???) Documentation that these conversations happened is maintained. This alone feels very much not like "equal team member" but like "leader."
- We are on the weekly leadership emails from our HR Business Partner (Target lingo for, like, our regional vice-president of Human Resources) and are privy to her in-person meetings with store leadership as she gives us the same goals and directives as them. Most other team members in the store have no idea who our HR Business Partner even is, yet we are working with her personally on a weekly basis to tackle overarching issues in our store.
- We play a major role in recruiting and hiring, choosing which candidates to move forward and which to decline. And yet we are paid the same and considered at the same level as the new hire we just placed?
- We run orientations, being the welcoming first face of Target while also ensuring that every new person being hired is legally eligible to work in the United States and is providing all proper I-9 documentation. These conversations are never easy, when someone shows up without proper paperwork or is not able to provide proof of citizenship/eligibility to work in the US.
- We are asked routinely by ETLs to make calls to team members who haven't shown up to work and use our judgment in deciding whether they sound sincerely willing to get back on track or whether we should just term them. I personally have been directed by ETLs on multiple occasions to term someone ... unless my judgment and conversation with that TM told me to give them another chance!
- We have access to TM and TL schedules, availability, attendance details, performance record, and payslips. We have the power to change punches and to approve or deny punch corrections submitted by TMs (or even TLs) in MyTime Self-Service. We change schedules all the time and are asked to find and add other TMs who may be available to come in if we are short-handed.
- We are responsible for being apprised of state and federal law and creating and managing processes to keep ourselves compliant as laws change...case in point, covid vaccination status and testing. We are responsible for getting every person who works in our store (including ODTM) to upload their vaccination status, and we will be responsible for overseeing the ongoing weekly testing for non-vaccinated employees at every level in our store. That alone is a HUGE task and responsibility!
- We receive complaints and concerns and listen to people's private problems all the time, and if we handled any of these conversations incorrectly or were to be indiscreet about any of it, we would be opening up Target to legal vulnerabilities. Not to mention the personal responsibility of being helpful and caring in those moments. We have to be calm, know what to say and what not to say, and how to direct the person to the correct resource. In the past four weeks alone, we have dealt with TM going missing on the property, then threatening self-harm; a minor female complaining of sexual harassment by an adult male in her department; a traumatized new hire coming into work in hysterics after witnessing a shocking family tragedy; an ETL who has been with the company 17 years having a sobbing breakdown on my shoulder at the start of an orientation in front of 11 new hires; and a candidate without proper immigration paperwork attempting to intimidate me into letting him start work anyway because his family needs his paycheck. It is a LOT. It is all emotional because we care about every single one of these people, and it is a tremendous amount of stress to feel responsible for so much for so many.

In short, half the store already thinks we are Team Leaders! They just assume that we must be because of everything we have access to and do for them on a daily basis! People come to us as leaders. We are the question-answerers and the problem-solvers. We are shoulders to cry on, listening ears to vent frustrations to, and mediators amid conflict.

With absolutely no disrespect to team members in other areas of the store, I am asking: am I the only one who thinks that this particular role feels different from other TM roles and maybe should be a Leader position?


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## Rarejem (Dec 10, 2021)

Sorry, but I don't agree with you.  You have different responsibilities and accountability for your job area than those in other areas.  Just different, not a higher level. Many of the responsibilities you cite are unique to your position, but are also the responsibilities of other tm's in other areas. There are laws that other areas must be aware of and government agencies to which they are accountable... everywhere from market to receiving to price change and more. There are contracts with companies that must be honored and we must be aware of them.   Every tm in the store has ongoing training and many are trained in multiple areas.  Access to equipment and keys is the responsibility of property management and security.  Every tm that has the knowledge is expected to train other tm's. I-9 documentation is seriously just a matter of copying paperwork that the new hire brings in (I have done my share of hiring, though not at Target) Many or perhaps most stores' TL's are responsible for fillbacks on schedule, changing schedules, and approving punch corrections. Department TL's are responsible for attendance conversations and decisions, not HR. With regard to the vaccine upload, our TL's talked to their tm's and many tm's just showed others how to do it. I am not sure how weekly testing is going to be handled at this time in our store. There are many tm's and TL's and ETL's that are a shoulder for others.  It depends on how comfortable others are talking to them and what the trust level for being discreet is. (very few would ever share personal information with our ETLHr or HRtm....  they are too blabby).  With no disrespect meant toward you, it sounds like you have accepted responsibilities that are not necessarily yours and now they are.  Have the discussion with your Store Director, but my guess is that you won't get far with the discussion.


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## Fluttervale (Dec 10, 2021)

As someone who promoted out of the HR expert role to a TL role, nope, not the same.


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## DBZ (Dec 10, 2021)

I think the HR expert should get paid a little more. I don't know if they should get TL pay, but at least a $1 or 2. I also think that of the receiver and and maybe even the people who do cash office. Those are roles that can't be covered by 99% of the store.


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## DBZ (Dec 10, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> As someone who promoted out of the HR expert role to a TL role, nope, not the same.



What's the difference between HR expert and HT TL?


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## Planosss enraged (Dec 10, 2021)

Just by reading the title, the answer is a hard no.


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## lucidtm (Dec 10, 2021)

My answer from your other thread:

You're doing a lot of things our HR ETL handles herself (because it's her job to) and some other things that our other ETL's and TL's handle for their own respective teams. Our store is on the larger side (not a super, though). We also have 2 HR experts. They work half days and rotate their weekends off. ASANTS for sure on this one.

Adding in:

I do think HR Experts should get at least $1 more an hour. Our HR TM's are the front lines for knowledge and always know the answer. They're both gold mines in terms of our store team. However, looking at what a TL has to deal with day-to-day I don't think they deserve that same pay.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Dec 10, 2021)

No. To be a leader you have to have a team to lead. I know there have been exceptions. But imo there shouldn’t have been.


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## Xanatos (Dec 10, 2021)

DBZ said:


> What's the difference between HR expert and HT TL?


Probably approximately the same as the difference between any TL and their respective TMs: following up with TMs, documenting conversations, setting goals, recognition, etc. My role as a Starbucks TL is nearly identical to any of my baristas, at least on paper. In reality, I take on a lot more responsibility than they do because I feel like I should do more if I'm getting paid more.


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## Fluttervale (Dec 10, 2021)

DBZ said:


> What's the difference between HR expert and HT TL?


The HRTL is responsible for the results, not just the actual work.  As a HRTM you are responsible for doing specific things just like every other TM in the store, but you are not responsible for deciding who does that work, or the actual result of that work.

Take compliance, for example.  You may responsible for talking to TMs who don’t go to lunch on time, but you are NOT responsible for ensuring that they don’t and aren’t held to a standard on your compliance percent at the end of the year. You may be responsible for reviewing interviews but you don’t get graded on retention.  

So to flip it to another TMs role, in food we have quarterly eco lab inspections.  The team is responsible for storing food safely and cleaning, but the team doesn’t take a CCA for a red score, only the TL does.  The team can take one for specific issues (personal food or drink in the cafe) but not for the red score.


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## boringClerk03 (Dec 10, 2021)

You posted this twice? I'm going to just copy and paste my answer from your other post in leadership to this one, but as someone who is on the same level as you, you are recognized as an HR assistant, not an HR leader. You do not have leadership responsibilities because that's an entirely different set of duties that you don't own. As mentioned above, you're doing the work of a regular entry-level HR individual at a regular company with responsibilities pushed down by other leaders. 

My ORIGINAL response to your post in Leadership:

_The company decided last year that only higher volume stores or stores that require the additional assistance deserve the HR TL role. The role itself was supposed to be eliminated completely, but it's sticking around because HR is an essential business partner function in the store, hence why all stores that aren't the express or small format model have an ETL HR now. For those smaller stores, there's an HR TL and MAYBE an additional expert, but it's dependent on business needs. There are technically two HR TL roles: Human Resources Process Team Leader as well as the rudimentary Human Resources Team Leader role. High volume super targets will have both along with a few other experts. Regular store formats will have an ETL HR along with 1-3 experts. HR experts should NOT be leaders because the HR TL role still exists and leadership duties do not coincide with what a team member or expert does, even in HR.

As others have already stated, your duties are overlapping with duties that are in the leadership's job description, but that does not necessarily mean you should be paid more, and is the fault of your own store leadership.

I work in HR as well, but not at Target. I'm on-demand here, and then I have an HR assistant office position in the industry. To be honest, a lot of your job duties are what I'm currently doing at my new company and are the duties of a regular HR assistant at any other company in this country, and I get paid $16.50/hr plus benefits. Your role is to be the assistant to the head of HR and other leadership functions, in your case, the ETL-HR and the rest of upper management. This includes, but is not limited to compliance, back-end terminations, recruiting, selection, and other staffing efforts; onboarding, orientations, scheduling, payroll, learning and development, etc. You also seem to be doing performance management and extraneous employee relations concerns while helping to roll out new training and processes to the store team.

While I 100% agree that HR assistant/expert/specialist duties are certainly elevated and should be respected/compensated appropriately, mainly due to the type of work and information you deal with, a lot of times in other companies, you get paid less or equal to other team members or employees on a similar hierarchy. In terms of leadership, you're not necessarily doing anything leadership-wise, especially in HR, because that requires a strategic approach to the business which is ultimately reserved for the senior or executive leadership team._


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## Far from newbie (Dec 10, 2021)

no.  HR experts should NOT be leaders.  They should also NOT be doing some of the things you say you do.


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## Zxy123456 (Dec 10, 2021)

DBZ said:


> I think the HR expert should get paid a little more. I don't know if they should get TL pay, but at least a $1 or 2. I also think that of the receiver and and maybe even the people who do cash office. Those are roles that can't be covered by 99% of the store.


I think almost every team member could make a case as to why there job should get more pay. I do drive up and sometimes think we should make more but, I know that won’t happen. I love drive up so I’m cool.


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## Yetive (Dec 11, 2021)

Can we merge with the other thread please?


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## HRExpert (Dec 11, 2021)

Sorry I posted this in two places! I was new to this website and didn't know what I was doing. I really appreciate all of your responses - thank you all so much for your thoughtful points. I feel a lot better. Also, I am realizing that we are probably doing more than the job entails on paper? Now would probably be a good time to mention that our ETL-HR was fired about two months ago, and we still do not have a replacement. Maybe when she is replaced with a (hopefully!) great ETL, some of the responsibility we HREs have been shouldering will be taken over.


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