# Before you sign your life away...



## talan123 (Jun 22, 2011)

_And some people hoped that this would go away..._

Full disclosure, I was (as so many others I see posting here) an ETL hire straight out of college, and turned frequently to this site for tips and advice prior to taking the offer and donning my red and khaki. 


Although there's already a surplus of positive, encouraging posts for the fledgling ETL, I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring and offer a little well-founded advice for those about to take up the "Executive" mantle...
Here’s a fun little Reality Trip for you...

So you just graduated, the economy (especially for recent college grads) is brutal, and, apart from a bunch of sketchy insurance agencies and reps from Enterprise-rent-a-car, the only positive, interested (and, let's face it, young and Caucasian) people at your college job fair were decked out in red and khaki. Heck, they even gave you a stuffed dog!***

"Wow," you say to yourself. "I DO love shopping at Target, and I WOULD describe myself as an energetic person who loves a challenging, ever-changing environment. Plus, they're interviewing EXECUTIVES*gasp*! At last, someone who acknowledges my intellectual value after four years of college! Where else could I rise so high at the age of 22? I should definitely give it a try!"
You fork over your resume, smile nicely, and walk away thinking how cool it would be not to have to wear a suit to work every day. Though you've never worked retail, it really can't be *that* hard (after all, lowly high school grads do it). Anyway, you'll be an executive! Leave the grunt work to the peons while you eat lunch in the boardroom.***

You (being the eminently employable superstar you always knew you were, if only those other jobs in your field of study had given you a chance, instead of babbling about "skill sets" and "hiring freezes" during your interview) are thrilled and excited to get a call-back from the good people at the ol' Bullseye. You suit up, ace a few interviews, and before you know it, there's a call back from a perky young thing in HR gushing about how great you were, offering a princely salary of 43-47K a year, and droning on and on about something called on-boarding (also, she seems really psyched, and has heard lots and lots about how great you are). In this economy you'd be a fool NOT to take it- after all, you've got student loans to pay, and your parents are already talking about turning your old bedroom into a workshop for those idiotic ship-in-a-bottle things your dad's obsessed with. Go for it.

That's when you run a quick google search for things like "Executive Team Leader salary" or the like, and after messing around with glassdoor.com for awhile, you will stumble across this forum; www.thebreakroom.us

Sure, there might be a couple of Debbie Downers trashing their ETL, or bemoaning the inexperience of the fresh-out-of-college managers they're saddled with, but hey- none of it seems to apply to you-you're way too smart and motivated to fall prey to the pitfalls some of these well-meaning TL's (whatever the hell those are) have outlined and trapped you for, and you scoff at the lazy parasites who resent working twelve-hour days six days a week. Go ahead, take that offer, what's the worst that can happen?

You show up for Target's Business College, and realize there are a disconcerting amount of other new college grads your age. "Gee," you think, "Target must be expanding at a crazy rate to need this many new ETL's. And they just said this is the fourth one they've run this year. Working for such a rapidly expanding company is going to be so incredibly Awesome!" Plus, the second those fat paychecks start hitting your BofA student checking account, that iPhone you always wanted will be yours for the taking! 

It is kind of funny though, you've never really wanted to work in Soft-lines (your econ textbooks didn't really prep you for it), but they've just told you that's what your new job will be. Couldn't they have just told you that, originally what you were applying for? Those girls over there got HR, and that kid next to you got AP (which sounds kinda Paul Blart, Mall Cop-esque, but still cooler than selling jorts to elementary schoolers), and now he's nauseatingly full of himself about it. Forget him, you'll be fine, and anyways (they tell you) everyone rotates every so often so you'll be able to learn every part of the building. You'll be fine.

And then you get into your store. Everyone's really, really nice, and although an unsettlingly large number of your new co-workers will grimace and say "what, another one already?" when you introduce yourself as a new Exec in Training, ignore them. Focus, instead, on learning how to learn the processes you'll need in your new job; tagging along with the other execs, and realize that you couldn't possibly learn everything in the meager six weeks corporate allots for this sort of thing- your entire time at Target will be an ongoing learning experience!*** And get to know the members of your team really, really well as they'll be the ones who'll be watching your back and helping you through this great process.***

Never mind that, as time goes by, you're starting to come to the unsettling realization that an "exec" is really Target-speak for "assistant manager (you)," "team leader," is "supervisor (who, again, and this is unsettling, knows more about doing your job than you could possibly learn in two years and either a) resents you because you make 15K a year more than they do due to your fancy college diploma or b) HAS a diploma, is struggling mightily to convince the indifferent, twenty-something execs above them to put through that promotion, resents the fact that 85% of current ETL hires are now straight out of college, and is woefully unaware that your fellow execs snicker about their ambitions behind their back)." 

Also, "team member" stands for "blue collar workers who now (despite your working similar jobs in high school and college and knowing what it's like to make $7.25 an hour) either shamelessly defer to you as if you, who as a lofty EIT, represents the corporation in all its red and khaki glory or openly scorn your lack of aptitude when it comes to building plan-o-grams and running peppy, large-scale "Huddles" (seriously) where you inform the workers on the floor just how great, in your limited experience, they are, while try to make them care how much the store made or missed its projected numbers that day, and remind them of the importance of safety on the job. You'll be surprised by how many, indeed DO actually care, but don't let that throw you. Follow the lead of the other execs, who will faithfully document, commiserate with, and record the Team Member's complaints and opinions on their jobs, then shamelessly bash them during the weekly executive meeting to the STL as lazy troublemakers who are lucky to be employed at all [In all seriousness, I'm not joking here. That was verbatim, and it happens all the time].*** {What? You mean all this time that I'm getting paid to input data, somebody is... Nevermind.}

As for your STL, that mythical, god-like creature who rules the building with a firm but loving hand, embodies your highest aspirations in the organization, and acts as a surrogate parent/mentor/fearless leader to the teeming masses laboring under them, learn from their example. You are a leader in the building with the potential to be so much more (an STL) and everything you've done with your life up until now has been in preparation for ascending to that lofty post. When they approach you, take a deep whiff. Smell that? It's success. Forget the eighty billion other execs in your district ahead of you in line for it- Target's a meritocracy, and you could easily be bringing home the big bucks in a few short years. You're already on the right track (remember, you are an awesome college grad).

In fact, forgetting things as you go forward will be key to your survival. Forget that the previous eight [again, I'm dead serious. EIGHT] execs to train at your store were termed (the lovely Target euphemism for "fired in tears") within a few months of finishing their own business college, forget the fact your fellow execs always seem to be poised on the brink of nervous, physiological, or physical collapse, and often go into hysterics when told the DM is coming to walk the store, forget even that 45K a year isn't really all that much per hour when you work 55+ hours a week [again, this is dead serious, 55 hours isn't a cruel joke people made up for this forum, and often entails getting up at 2AM to unload a truck at 3]. Even forget the fact that the friends who stuck out their job search a little longer than you did are making 40K to work forty hours a week, 9-5, and get weekends and holidays off, plus benefits similar to your own with the added benefit of a soul. Forget that the whole work/life balance that friendly recruiter touted to you will really consist of work/thinking and stressing about work, as the job involves numerous factors outside your control, but are still your fault (other jobs have this too, but not to the extreme you'll experience).

And forget that the corporate culture with it's "feedback" orientated culture is really a laundry list of your perceived and real defects not only as a leader, but also a human being and will be heavily documented in the likely event of your termination. You know those "wins" and "opportunities" the store has? You have them too, and from your first feedback session on, they will not change. Embrace them- you'll be speaking to your flaws as an individual for the rest of your time at the company, however brief that might be.

Forget all that. Take that on-boarding material, sign your offer, and enjoy your time as an ETL at Target. I know I did.
Your soul will be returned to upon leaving the company. 
Your humanity will not.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 22, 2011)

Too funny!


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## FrontEndKnowItAll (Jun 22, 2011)

Haha, I love it!!


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## commiecorvus (Jun 22, 2011)

I keep forgetting all the great stuff that was on the old board.  Thank you Talan for being the keeper of the flame.,


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## Formina Sage (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm glad you saved this, who originally posted it?


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## redeye58 (Jun 23, 2011)

It was an actual post from a former ETL giving an unvarnished view of their short time with Target. 
I remember a yr when we had 3 EITs at once. One never finished, another quit during his first rotation because of the effect that stress was having on his health & the 3rd quit shortly after he moved to his store.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 23, 2011)

Indeed!
"before you take that job"


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## pzychopopgroove (Sep 25, 2011)

I enjoy this every time I read it!


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## SouthernThunder (Sep 25, 2011)

It totally blows my mind that Target hires people fresh out of college, with zero actual retail experience and places them in management positions. 

Although, I've seen the same thing happen elsewhere. 

I once helped a girl I knew get a job with the company I was working for and then found out they were paying her $3 an hour more than they were paying me, to do the exact same job, only in a smaller, lower volume store. 

The reason?

"She has a masters degree."

Which she did. In ELEMENTARY EDUCATION. 

Her first ever in her life retail job, making $3 an hour more than me came to an end when the DM walked in on her sitting in the middle of the sales floor, crying hysterically...

The stressing about things that are beyond your control but are still your fault is also not unique to Target. 

That's more like, welcome to management.


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## seeingredsince62 (Sep 28, 2011)

That old post is so accurate it is not funny. Full disclosure myself, i was NOT a college graduate, but joined from a different retailer. During my years, i had a lot of success, but then it became clear, no degree, aging, and it became amazing how things out of my control, i became accountable, and the little stuff that eventually became coachings. 
There was a time i would promote target to anyone, now after seeing what happened to me and others in identical situation with identical backgrounds, with the same end result.
Honest and integrity is something that is a trait the leaders seem to find not important. When i was put on a final, my stl, actually smiled and enjoyed the conversation.
No i do not fit the mold of an etl, but the results and commitment were always there. 
Anyway, i did find out the grass is greener on the other side. After the final, i sent out one resume, and then had 3 interview, and a new career (out of retail).

My respect for Target is gone, although i still shop there to show support for the team members, and still hate Walmart. 
i will keep my eye this site, to try and redirect those heading into hell.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Sep 28, 2011)

Wow! Welcome!


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## Albusmc (Jan 30, 2012)

Simply sounds like someone who couldn't cut it is all. It's not for everyone, but if you apply yourself and know how to lead, your golden!


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## RedDog (Jan 30, 2012)

Albusmc said:


> Simply sounds like someone who couldn't cut it is all. It's not for everyone, but if you apply yourself and know how to lead, your golden!



This is what you would think but, I have been with this company for a long time and sadly it could not be less true.  More then ever its who you know not what you know.


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## frugm (Feb 9, 2012)

Albusmc said:


> Simply sounds like someone who couldn't cut it is all. It's not for everyone, but if you apply yourself and know how to lead, your golden!



This is absolutely BS, and clearly someone that has never worked at Target. 

I'm a Logistics Team lead in a low volume store and always question whether the stress is worth the measly few dollars that they want to pay. I only have 3 people in my backroom on a large truck day including myself and my other two guys are scheduled till 7.45 because we don't have payroll, despite the fact RWT says backstock should be completed by 4pm that evening in the mean time I also have to follow up with my instocks team, do my business walks, leadership statuses, write reviews, PDD's and coachings, answer guest calls, Oh and by the way were having a Mutual back patting session (TL meeting) at 11 o'clock. So my ETL comes to me why is our backstock percentage not green, why didn't instocks get there task list completed, why are you not in the meeting it started 5 minutes ago, why are you still in the building 5 minutes past your shift. And that is only half of it and i'm not even joking.

I bust my balls for that place and when I explain that its because we don't have the man power to get the job done (And I know he's only joking) he says "well you need to work harder" I just want to punch him in the face. lol

I understand that he gets just as much pressure from the STL and DTL as he gives me but I honestly think these higher ups are living in a dream world 90% of the time.

It is kind of hard to lead a team, when they do not give you a team to lead to begin with.


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## Iheartplanograms (Aug 14, 2014)

I love this. We all hate the fresh out of school exec. but it is nice to hear the other side of the coin.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Aug 14, 2014)

This thread is one of my favs...


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## New~gstl (Sep 15, 2014)

How can I see the pay grades for different positions? I see ppl talking about pay grades 13 17 etc


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## Hardlinesmaster (Sep 15, 2014)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> paygrades from 2009: source: the breakroom.org gtc: 98cents, rock lobster, silkk01
> 
> PG3: Guest Service TM (Cashier, Service Desk); Cart Attendant TM; Fitting Room TM; Garden Center TM; Salesfloor TM; Brand Attendant
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

I want to see all the info on bonuses.  If I ever quit or get fired, I would love to print out 100 sheets of all shite and put it in clerical.


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## dannyy315 (Apr 26, 2015)

Just stumbled across this. Too funny!


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## Goyis (May 11, 2016)

Ha ha ha!


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## Hardlinesmaster (Dec 12, 2016)

↑
FYI- Most ETLs don't leave b/c of they pay. They leave b/c what is expected of them vs what they are told to expect as an "assistant store manager" differ. If you like work/life balance, an ETL position is not for you.
Yes that is generally true. The thing is, most new ETLs get put into a position without any idea what they are doing. The general process goes like this... 
1 - Recruited and told about AMAZING opportunity being an Executive
2 - Hired and put through "business college" where you are shown an ideal situation of the area you are training
3 - Report to your store, spend 6 months "getting to know" the team, area, your leadership style etc...
4 - Your STL tells you the area is not performing, and that is when you know the honeymoon phase is over
5- New ETL scrambles to find solutions they are ill-equipped to solve and burns out

Now, if you know what you are doing this entire thing is avoided. Depending on the area, it is possible to achieve a solid work-life balance.

Rock Lobster


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## HRZone (Dec 12, 2016)

Great bump, smiled and nodded the whole time I read it. I would not sell my soul to be an ETL. Would hate to get so little time with my family for a few extra bucks.


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## Logo (Dec 12, 2016)

The only ETL that I see work a ridiculous amount of hours is logistics.  The rest have been or tend to be clock watchers.


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## HRZone (Dec 13, 2016)

Logo said:


> The only ETL that I see work a ridiculous amount of hours is logistics.  The rest have been or tend to be clock watchers.



ASANTS because we have an ETL Ops responsible for backroom day, plano, price accuracy, instocks etc our logistics ETL only oversees overnight flow and overnight backroom.

He works 4 days a week maybe 12 hours a day. Comes out to 7 hours a week less than the ETLs who work 5 days a week 11 hours a day


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## Firefox (Dec 13, 2016)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> ↑
> FYI- Most ETLs don't leave b/c of they pay. They leave b/c what is expected of them vs what they are told to expect as an "assistant store manager" differ. If you like work/life balance, an ETL position is not for you.
> Yes that is generally true. The thing is, most new ETLs get put into a position without any idea what they are doing. The general process goes like this...
> 1 - Recruited and told about AMAZING opportunity being an Executive
> ...



I'm afraid that this is going to happen with our most recent ETL-OPs. He's inheriting a difficult workcenter in an atypical store during the worst time of the year, and has been pulling 12-14 hour days consistently since he's taken over. He's a good dude, a great leader, and I hope that he is able (and willing) to stick around as long as he can handle the unrealistic expectations of our new STL.


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## Logo (Dec 13, 2016)

Didn't realize there was a Logistics and OPS Etl.  He's more an OPS but has always  been referred to as Logistics. The gal before this one worked a ridiculous amount of hours as well.


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## HRZone (Dec 14, 2016)

Logo said:


> Didn't realize there was a Logistics and OPS Etl.  He's more an OPS but has always  been referred to as Logistics. The gal before this one worked a ridiculous amount of hours as well.



Yes but remember Asants. Some stores have an ETL Log who oversees all of that and no ETL Ops


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## LUR99 (Dec 15, 2016)

HRZone said:


> Yes but remember Asants. Some stores have an ETL Log who oversees all of that and no ETL Ops


We only have an ETL Log but we are a smaller store. He works A LOT of hours, the ETL LOG before him didn't last long.


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## jackandcat (Apr 15, 2020)

Bumping this thread for its usefulness.


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## BoxCutter (Apr 15, 2020)

jackandcat said:


> Bumping this thread for its usefulness.


Especially this time of year.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Apr 15, 2020)

Yes, indeed!


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## happygoth (Apr 15, 2020)

Retail salaried management jobs are mostly terrible. The stress level is definitely not worth the money.


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## SquishySquishy (Apr 16, 2020)

Spot on.


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## Benton0101 (Apr 20, 2020)

Not to bump this, but is an ETL job one someone shouldn’t take under any circumstances? I’m about to graduate from college and am under consideration for an ETL-HR position. I’m really looking at it just to get HR experience (it wasn’t my major) and pivot to another (non retail) industry. Is this really a position I should avoid at all costs? If it matters at all I’ve worked in retail for another company for 5 years and know all too well the pitfalls the fresh from college managers around me fall into. I also understand the principle that the TL will be much wiser than I, I get it’s almost a military concept where the new officer should yield to their more experienced SGT. is this job really that awful?


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## Black Sheep 214 (Apr 21, 2020)

It can be that awful depending on your leadership, and a TL position is even worse. Job security is not that great if your leadership takes a dislike to you, and there is always a new crop of newly minted graduates waiting to take your place, ready to drink the kool-aid and willing to work cheap, or at least cheaper than you after you’re had your first raise. Pay is not commensurate with stress levels, work/life balance is a joke, and since an ETL is salaried and will have to work as many hours as required for the needs of the business, their actual pay per hour worked may not be anything to write home about. Wouldn’t be worth it to me, but if you want to take a shot at it to have the experience for your resume, it might be worth it to you, or you might be better off starting out in the industry that you want to move into. Either way, good luck!


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## Yetive (Apr 21, 2020)

HR would be the way to go.  They seem to be able to move to other non-retail HR jobs pretty easily around my area.


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## BoxCutter (Apr 21, 2020)

If you want the experience to move into another industry, then ETL-HR is the way to go. In my area also, it seems to be the best position to have to move into another field.

If I were you, I would first decide what field you want to go to after Target. I would then investigate if the skills set you would be developing at Spot would be valuable and transferable to that position and industry.

Do this by making contact with an executive at the corporate level at a company in that industry and get their opinion on your plan. In this case, the VP of HR would be an good place to start. If you are graduating from a large university, the alumni organization maybe able to help you contact a graduate that already has that role. If not, cold call the VP at the company you would like to work at and tell their administrative assistant that you are not looking for a job with that company now, but you have another offer you are on the fence about and would like just a few minutes of the VP's time to see if it would be easy in the future to move into their industry. This will make sure you will not be spending time learning things that will be useless to that industry, and if the VP takes an interest in you, they may ask if you would consider interviewing with them now. Or, they may say to keep in touch periodically and let them know how you are doing, which you may be able to turn in to a mentoring relationship that will help you down the line.

Before you start at Target, pick a hard date that you will definitely leave by either having found a new job or resigning to find a new job. Too many people take a job with the idea of only being there a short time and the next thing they know they are there for 19 years ( 🤪 ). Once you start at Target, be as frugal as you can be and save every penny that you can. Limit the Panera lunches  that you buy to eat with the other ETLs and SD. Brown bag your lunches as much as possible without alienating them. If you need/want a new car, buy a nice used one. Save every way you can so that if you need to resign to look for a new job, you will have the funds to support you during the new job search. (If you find the new job while still at Target, you can then use some of that cushion money to celebrate and get some of the things you denied yourself).

Continually update your CV with your new duties and skills, and no matter how tired you are, continually look for the job you really want to apply for.

Yes, the description of the ETL position is an honest one. Depending on the leadership above you, you may even think it was sugar coated. So, go in with a plan and stick to it. Good luck!


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## Rastaman (Apr 21, 2020)

ETL HR will give you experience that can transfer out of retail.  Every Fortune 500 company has a HR department. It's a little better than other roles for that reason


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## applejaxxon (May 20, 2020)

That’s why I want to get into an HRETL position, no other company hires you for hr fresh out of college.


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## NikiDeaf (Jun 18, 2020)

This explains so much! I'm the blue collar worker...despite the fact that I have a degree, actually. It's the fact that I'm disabled that relegates me to the ranks of the unclean, lol


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## applejaxxon (Jun 23, 2020)

NikiDeaf said:


> This explains so much! I'm the blue collar worker...despite the fact that I have a degree, actually. It's the fact that I'm disabled that relegates me to the ranks of the unclean, lol


Can I ask what your degree is in?


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