# Promoting at Target



## YugTegrat (Jul 25, 2022)

The route for "moving up" at Target seems to be TM to TL, or at least a PG45 role. Are there any other ways of moving up that don't involve a leadership position?


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## MrT (Jul 25, 2022)

YugTegrat said:


> The route for "moving up" at Target seems to be TM to TL, or at least a PG45 role. Are there any other ways of moving up that don't involve a leadership position?


Short answer is no.  Long answer is that they want leadership experience.  If you already have leadership experience then there is a chance but depending on what it is they may still want you to be a TL.  You can go to another company and come back, otherwise you are going to be forced to climb the ladder step by step.  At the ETL there are other avenues to move up as there are different roles that can be outside of the stores.


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## NotCynicalYet (Jul 25, 2022)

Internal can be a struggle, and if your store is full of solid tms and tls looking to move up, and you aren't some undeniable top talent who is blowing them away but merely a very good TM ready to promote, well, good luck. Strap in because it could take a few years. You may need to get lucky. You're judged subjectively compared to your peers or to your SDs personal standards to a large degree even if that isn't right objectively. External or rehire after more experience is far more fair of a process from what I've seen. Just the truth, I know we try to do better than this when developing talent, but yeah.


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## BadWolf4531 (Jul 26, 2022)

YugTegrat said:


> Are there any other ways of moving up that don't involve a leadership position?


By this do you mean are there ways of making more money that don't involve being a leader?

Sadly, not anymore. The only way to make more money as a TM is to put in more time and getting a few additional cents during annual reviews (and those increases aren't even keeping up with inflation at the moment).

Several years ago the paygrades for TMs varied by position. For instance, you could go from Cashier > Food & Beverage TM > Backroom TM and get a small pay bump (usually 25-50 cents) with each move. There were also "specialist" positions which were a step above TM but below TL, and I think those were $1.00 above base pay. 

A lot of stores will still designate their top TMs as "specialists, captains, pace setters, etc." and give them additional responsibilities in an attempt to develop them, but unfortunately none of these titles are official roles and you very likely are not going to see an increase in pay.


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## Zxy123456 (Jul 26, 2022)

What do you mean by moving up? What do you want to do? The only position I know of above team member are team lead. ETL and Sd are both team lead positions so, what else is there?


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## BackupTL (Jul 26, 2022)

If you mean moving into HQ/field roles, almost all of them will require ETL first and then applying after you're in that role as many of them are salary already. There are non-leadership HQ roles but many are based at actual HQ in MN. I have acquaintances that have gone from store TM to HQ/field because they had a very specific degree or prior experience and applied.

For one, the store/district essentially said "no, you're not an ETL+" (your leader is supposed to approve the application first and make sure you hit the requirements), but HQ liked the TM and overrode their transfer denial. Apparently my friend's new HQ boss (VP Store Ops) emailed their SD and was like "yeah, it's happening".


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## MrT (Jul 26, 2022)

My guess is that OP was wondering if there was a way to move directly into a salaried position and skipping the pg45 level.  It may have happened before but that is an extreme exception and in 13 years at target have not heard of one case ever.


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## YugTegrat (Jul 26, 2022)

It’s more that I like Target and want to keep working here, but I am not a “leader”. I do not possess the qualities needed for such a role, nor do I want to develop them. It looks like my only options are to stay as a TM and keep getting good reviews or look for another job.


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## MrT (Jul 26, 2022)

YugTegrat said:


> It’s more that I like Target and want to keep working here, but I am not a “leader”. I do not possess the qualities needed for such a role, nor do I want to develop them. It looks like my only options are to stay as a TM and keep getting good reviews or look for another job.


VM and PML aren't really a "Leadership" position.  Those could be some good options.
Outside of spot there are probably better options.  Warehouse and manufacturing jobs will pay better.  Sales jobs can also pay better if your a real go getter type of person.


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## BadWolf4531 (Jul 26, 2022)

MrT said:


> My guess is that OP was wondering if there was a way to move directly into a salaried position and skipping the pg45 level.  It may have happened before but that is an extreme exception and in 13 years at target have not heard of one case ever.


It can happen but like you said it's an extreme exception. It actually happened to me six years ago but I ended up turning the offer down. That said I was a GSA and TPS prior to the offer, so I think that helped give me some leverage.


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## Blahblah22808 (Jul 28, 2022)

MrT said:


> VM and PML aren't really a "Leadership" position.  Those could be some good options.
> Outside of spot there are probably better options.  Warehouse and manufacturing jobs will pay better.  Sales jobs can also pay better if your a real go getter type of person.


Vm and pml aren’t a leadership position depending on the store you’re in. In my store VM is very much considered a leader role, in fact most people assume she’s an etl and and our pml is in all our leadership meetings and treated as one.


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## MrT (Jul 29, 2022)

Blahblah22808 said:


> Vm and pml aren’t a leadership position depending on the store you’re in. In my store VM is very much considered a leader role, in fact most people assume she’s an etl and and our pml is in all our leadership meetings and treated as one.


The VM is usually treated as a 3rd style tl in most stores I've been to, but neither the vm or pml are responsible for checking in with the tms, closing/opening the store, or disciplining tms.  PML has to lead the cleaning crew and deal with outside vendors.  I'm just saying the OP wanted to move up without having leadership responsibilities.  That's the best options we have.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Jul 29, 2022)

YugTegrat said:


> It’s more that I like Target and want to keep working here, but I am not a “leader”. I do not possess the qualities needed for such a role, nor do I want to develop them. It looks like my only options are to stay as a TM and keep getting good reviews or look for another job.


“Moving up” means leadership positions. That’s all there is.


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## Fluttervale (Jul 30, 2022)

There’s nothing storeside that isn’t a leadership position.  There isn’t any other skill that is needed at increased levels.  If you’re looking for that sort of career, IT seems to be a good option.


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## BurgerBob (Jul 30, 2022)

MrT said:


> The VM is usually treated as a 3rd style tl in most stores I've been to, but neither the vm or pml are responsible for checking in with the tms, closing/opening the store, or disciplining tms.  PML has to lead the cleaning crew and deal with outside vendors.  I'm just saying the OP wanted to move up without having leadership responsibilities.  That's the best options we have.


Though the pml has to be on the roof when the ac breaks


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## Avocadioo (Jul 30, 2022)

YugTegrat said:


> The route for "moving up" at Target seems to be TM to TL, or at least a PG45 role. Are there any other ways of moving up that don't involve a leadership position?


Workday. There’s a lot. Lvl 73’s, lvl 2’s, lvl 1’s…


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## BackupTL (Aug 4, 2022)

Avocadioo said:


> Workday. There’s a lot. Lvl 73’s, lvl 2’s, lvl 1’s…


What's a level 73? Everything I see is either PG45 HQ TM or level 1-10.

Edit, oh I see. DC step progression, I might have forgotten that DCs exist and get significantly different pay than stores. I've never considered a DC role so that's probably why I've not noticed the paygrade.

The more you know! Thanks!


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## Hal (Aug 5, 2022)

BackupTL said:


> What's a level 73? Everything I see is either PG45 HQ TM or level 1-10.
> 
> Edit, oh I see. DC step progression, I might have forgotten that DCs exist and get significantly different pay than stores. I've never considered a DC role so that's probably why I've not noticed the paygrade.
> 
> The more you know! Thanks!


Just ignore what he says about level 73. He keeps bringing up level 73 like it means something. Its actually PG73 but workday is forced to label it as a level. Levels don't matter until merit and management positions.

Its more money, but its not a promotion. A warehouse worker is just a higher paid TM.


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## Avocadioo (Aug 6, 2022)

@Hal I’m about to get my last 50¢ raise. If I choose a lvl 2 role such as Training Specialist (not a back up) how would my pay scale look? I talked to TS and they stated a bonus of 3kish for my DC.


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## Hal (Aug 6, 2022)

Its all performance based. Both your bonus and your raise. You get one guaranteed raise every year, the better you do the more you get. Sometimes that's really great, sometimes you fall behind the floor.

You'll get a percentage usually between 2% and 6% for your raise (I've also seen raises and roughly a 3% bonus based on your based salary.

So if you make $25 an hour and manage to snag a 6% raise (which means you are THE top performer so don't expect it) you'd get a $1.50 raise

Your bonus is based on base salary (so no differential or OT) so 25×40=1000. 1000x52=52k. So a 3% bonus on 52k would be a $1,560 bonus.

I believe cap is $33 an hour right now before differential. But it'll take you a bit to get there. 

You want to make more money quicker and put yourself in a better spot to move up? Be an LWW.


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## Avocadioo (Aug 6, 2022)

Hal said:


> Its all performance based. Both your bonus and your raise. You get one guaranteed raise every year, the better you do the more you get. Sometimes that's really great, sometimes you fall behind the floor.
> 
> You'll get a percentage usually between 2% and 6% for your raise (I've also seen raises and roughly a 3% bonus based on your based salary.
> 
> ...


Thank you I almost went for a training specialist roll over on the FC side of the RDC. I will wait. The reason I know your informative is because you predicted every key getting a SOM before it even happened. I think on my Mezzanine thread. You are more insightful than my local HR.


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## yojkraps (Aug 10, 2022)

Ashfromoldsite said:


> “Moving up” means leadership positions. That’s all there is.


Moving up means leadership. Exactly said. 

If you told your SD you wanted to move up without leadership responsibilities they would laugh at you and absolutely never promote you to VM or PML as both of those positions have major responsibility. 

As stated by others, the VM position is normally used as another style or home TL position. You would absolutely be expected to check in with TMs and give direction to not only TMs but also TLs as a VM. VM used to be the highest paid TL position and the only reason they took away the TL title was because during modernization, they expected TMs to own the visual aspects of their business, instead of a set team that handled it, which didn't really play out well in most stores. 

As a PML you would need to also follow up with TLs about store issues. PML typically walks with the PMD once to twice a month and is given call outs that absolutely need to be addressed and the TLs will be expected to follow through with these call outs once addressed by the PML.  

Like others have said, you would not have access to actually coach team members on the computer, or be expected to open or close in either of these positions, though one of my previous VMs was expected to close because she had held the VMTL position before it was taken away. All of my VMs after her have held keys to the store as well. 

PML would be less leadership responsibility as it is not considered a store-side position, PML reports to PMD not to anyone within the store, and cannot be pulled to do anything other than PM workload. However, in order to obtain this position, you would likely need experience of some sort. 
VM reports to the specialty ETL and in most stores is treated as a TL and expected to follow up with TMs, train them on standards, and even unofficially coach them when they are doing something wrong.  

Either way, if you don't want responsibility, than no you cannot move up. Additionally, if you did obtain one of these positions, and could not handle leadership responsibility, you would likely be pushed out for someone that could.


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## Coqui (Aug 10, 2022)

The PML reports to the PMBP, not the PMD.


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## lokinix (Aug 14, 2022)

I've known a number TLs that became ETLs. It may just be because of my district HR or what not, even atleast one person becoming ETL at the store they were TL at.


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## JoeCBabyD (Aug 18, 2022)

I have noticed if you are homosexual or black you have a much greater chance of being promoted.  If you're white just be gay and if you're black just be.


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## Used To Be Sane (Aug 18, 2022)

YugTegrat said:


> The route for "moving up" at Target seems to be TM to TL, or at least a PG45 role. Are there any other ways of moving up that don't involve a leadership position?


From what I saw in my days there it was always external hires.  

My speculation on the matter is that internal promotion would come with empathy for those on lower rank because you've been where they've been.  Therefore, Target would prefer individuals who have not had to endure what others have and therefore be much harder on them. 

Sad and weird but true.  Retail is NOT a kind business :-(


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## BurgerBob (Aug 18, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> I have noticed if you are homosexual or black you have a much greater chance of being promoted.  If you're white just be gay and if you're black just be.


Spicy opinion, much wow, so brave. /sarcasm


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## commiecorvus (Aug 19, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> I have noticed if you are homosexual or black you have a much greater chance of being promoted.  If you're white just be gay and if you're black just be.



I'd go easy with that nonsense.


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## DC Diva (Aug 19, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> I have noticed if you are homosexual or black you have a much greater chance of being promoted.  If you're white just be gay and if you're black just be.


And if you’re female your screwed.


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## Hal (Aug 19, 2022)

DC Diva said:


> And if you’re female your screwed.


My building is actively looking for and trying to mentor and promote female leaders from the floor. And I think most of the TM promotes this year were women.


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## NotCynicalYet (Aug 19, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> I have noticed if you are homosexual or black you have a much greater chance of being promoted.  If you're white just be gay and if you're black just be.


I wouldn't go that far. Target is progressive in hiring and promotions, and from what I've seen handles race and gender pretty well. It could be that some of us are conditioned to a somewhat racist world and are thus uncomfortable with the change toward equality. It could be that you've experienced a bubble of racism or reaction that goes the other way. I don't think Target has a problem generally speaking.


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## JoeCBabyD (Aug 19, 2022)

I am a huge fan of diversity, I just don't like how blatantly obvious it is that they are only promoting black and/or homosexual people for their own profit.  They ripped the band aid off immediately and it's really unbecoming.  If you need "proof" just look at all the white men leaving the company in management and all the black and/or homosexual people getting the job.  Clear as crystal if you take 10 minutes to look.


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## happygoth (Aug 19, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> I am a huge fan of diversity, I just don't like how blatantly obvious it is that they are only promoting black and/or homosexual people for their own profit.  They ripped the band aid off immediately and it's really unbecoming.  If you need "proof" just look at all the white men leaving the company in management and all the black and/or homosexual people getting the job.  Clear as crystal if you take 10 minutes to look.


Just stop.


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## JoeCBabyD (Aug 19, 2022)

Truth hurts


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## happygoth (Aug 19, 2022)

NotCynicalYet said:


> I wouldn't go that far. Target is progressive in hiring and promotions, and from what I've seen handles race and gender pretty well. It could be that some of us are conditioned to a somewhat racist world and are thus uncomfortable with the change toward equality. It could be that you've experienced a bubble of racism or reaction that goes the other way. I don't think Target has a problem generally speaking.


It's not somewhat racist, it's blatantly racist. Who gives a shit if every single manager at Target is black and/or gay? Are they doing their job? Are they a good manager? That's all that matters. I've had plenty of shitty white managers, male and female.


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## happygoth (Aug 19, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> Truth hurts


It would be worth it to get banned from this forum just so I could say what I really want to say to you...but I will refrain, for now.


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## JoeCBabyD (Aug 19, 2022)

I'm sure you would just make another account.  It's not hard.  Let it out goth.


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## JoeCBabyD (Aug 19, 2022)

Also learn how to spell somewhat.  Think you got too many double you's there.


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## happygoth (Aug 19, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> Also learn how to spell somewhat.  Think you got too many double you's there.


Already caught and edited it, but thanks Grammar Police.


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## JoeCBabyD (Aug 19, 2022)

I tried to spell "W" in words you would understand 😘


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## Xanatos (Aug 19, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> I am a huge fan of diversity, I just don't like how blatantly obvious it is that they are only promoting black and/or homosexual people for their own profit.  They ripped the band aid off immediately and it's really unbecoming.  If you need "proof" just look at all the white men leaving the company in management and all the black and/or homosexual people getting the job.  Clear as crystal if you take 10 minutes to look.


It’s not like Target is some glamorous job. Some of those white men might be getting jobs that have more pay and less stress.


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## redeye58 (Aug 19, 2022)

happygoth said:


> It would be worth it to get banned from this forum just so I could say what I really want to say to you...but I will refrain, for now.


Don't feed the trolls.


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## Avocadioo (Aug 20, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> I have noticed if you are homosexual or black you have a much greater chance of being promoted.  If you're white just be gay and if you're black just be.


I’m addicted to vigina. It doesn’t matter the race I eat it all, clean only tho 🧼. I am a white boy who has never been promoted though, yet I can code in Python?


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## Avocadioo (Aug 20, 2022)

Hal said:


> My building is actively looking for and trying to mentor and promote female leaders from the floor. And I think most of the TM promotes this year were women.


I think Melissa Kramer should be our next CEO. We have a professional relationship and she is a great leader. Talk about woman and leadership positions let’s talk about executives. A lead warehouse worker is a chump position.


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## Hal (Aug 20, 2022)

Target Board of Directors who are women:
Gail Boudreaux
Melanie Healy
Christine A Leahy
Monica Lozano
Grace Puma

Target Executive Leadership team who are women:
Katie Boylan - Executive Vice President and Chief Communications Officer

Christina Hennington - Executive Vice President and Chief Growth Officer

Melissa Kremer -Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer

Jill Sando - Executive Vice President and Chief Merchandising Officer

Cara Sylvester - Executive Vice President and Chief Guest Experience Officer

Laysha Ward - Executive Vice President and Chief External Engagement Officer

Around 40% of the Board of Directors are women and 40% of the Executive Leadership team are women.

Target doesn't have a problem with women in senior roles as a company. The problem is at the building levels (stores/dcs). Especially DCs. Because warehouse work is a stereotypically man's job so when the percentage of women is lower than men working it becomes that much harder to elevate woman. 

Not saying its right, but its a math problem and in some buildings like DC Diva's its seems its a culture problem.


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## BurgerBob (Aug 20, 2022)

DC Diva said:


> And if you’re female your screwed.


Lmao my entire store leadership  is 80% ladies.


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## Avocadioo (Aug 21, 2022)

Hal said:


> Target Board of Directors who are women:
> Gail Boudreaux
> Melanie Healy
> Christine A Leahy
> ...


Let’s get a woman in the chief executive officer position! Even better!  I promote diversity and equality.


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## pogfrog (Aug 22, 2022)

lokinix said:


> I've known a number TLs that became ETLs. It may just be because of my district HR or what not, even atleast one person becoming ETL at the store they were TL at.


I know of 2 TMs who were promoted to TL in-house and failed quickly because they were now "over" the TMS who they stole credit from for completed projects, stole projects from them , lied about their own NOT completed work performance to the SD and spread gossip about TM s through "moles" in other departments.
Apparently, a store needs to generate enough $$ to justify having an ETL, ours doesn't, so some TLS are moving off to other stores with ETL s for a better chance at further promotion.
To be quite frank regarding the above OP comments...I do notice that on our roster there are less then a hand full of other than Mexican /Guatemalan tms. The majority are given off stage duties together where they listen to their music and talk in their own language taking 2x the amount of time to complete their given task and the GS/Floor push duties are left to that other handful. Leadership is majority Mexican/Guatemalen..the last 5 hires are Mexican/ Guatemalan and the last 2 promotions are Mexican /Guatemalen.  Fine. Maybe it's a pipeline we are not aware of that Target participates in however there is distinct segregation on the floor at GS and in the backrooms because this majority predominantly speaks other than English the majority of the shift, It s exclusionary and disorienting to those who are not other English speaking. Leadership speaks to them in Spanish on the floor and in the offices and ALL OF THEM speak perfectly fine English.


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## Inboundbeast (Aug 23, 2022)

JoeCBabyD said:


> I have noticed if you are homosexual or black you have a much greater chance of being promoted.  If you're white just be gay and if you're black just be.


You’re wrong. Stop commenting this idea throughout the site.

What is correct, though, is that in the last few years, target has decided to do something about their leadership consisting mostly of 1 to 2 particular groups of people in society.. and that is white men and women and in a lot of cases those men and women are also nondiverse in regards to their sexuality as well. They are giving everyone the fair chance on all levels.

it is not acceptable to have a leadership team of all white straight people


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## commiecorvus (Aug 23, 2022)

Inboundbeast said:


> You’re wrong. Stop commenting this idea throughout the site.
> 
> What is correct, though, is that in the last few years, target has decided to do something about their leadership consisting mostly of 1 to 2 particular groups of people in society.. and that is white men and women and in a lot of cases those men and women are also nondiverse in regards to their sexuality as well. They are giving everyone the fair chance on all levels.
> 
> it is not acceptable to have a leadership team of all white straight people



He can't comment around the site anymore.
That's what happens when you keep being a racist, sexist, homophobe even when you've been asked to stop.


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## Nauzhror (Sep 11, 2022)

DC Diva said:


> And if you’re female your screwed.


My SD is female, 3 of the store's 4 ETL's are female. 7 of 10 TL's are female, VM is female, PML is male, that's 12/17 females in total with positions that are above TM pay. Yeah, Target clearly doesn't promote women.

As for leadership being unacceptable if all white/straight, I disagree. At least insofar as a specific store is concerned. I'm not saying it'd be fine if the entire company was purely white/straight leadership and minorities were explicitly excluded, but with a sample size as small as individual stores I don't think it's a huge deal. To the best of my knowledge that describes 16/17 of the PG45+ employees at my store, but I don't believe it is due to any sort of discriminatory behavior, it's due to demographics, the city I live in has a population that is 88.2% white. .882 * 17 = 15 expected white employees, actual number of 16 isn't much of a deviation. I'm not sure they're all straight, but to the best of my knowledge they are, but it's not a question I'd ever go around asking people - it doesn't matter to me.


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## YugTegrat (Sep 11, 2022)

Honestly, it’s a delicate issue. Going by demographics will see no representation in many areas, but purposefully promoting people to overrepresent means both not having qualified people in role and alienating those who are qualified, but didn’t get the role. There’s no “right” way to do it, or at least no “one size fits all” answer. Someone will always be offended or overlooked.


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## NotCynicalYet (Sep 12, 2022)

YugTegrat said:


> Honestly, it’s a delicate issue. Going by demographics will see no representation in many areas, but purposefully promoting people to overrepresent means both not having qualified people in role and alienating those who are qualified, but didn’t get the role. There’s no “right” way to do it, or at least no “one size fits all” answer. Someone will always be offended or overlooked.


Important point. I guess the way I've tried to reconcile this is to see that racism/sexism/etc actually create situations that cannot be resolved fairly, which should really drive home how destructive these things are.


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## Unleashed Dog (Oct 20, 2022)

It all depends on who your SD and/or ETL are.
Right now the SD/ETL combo at mine is threading into stupid territory after months of progress with the decision of hiring four new EXTERNAL hires as team leads, despite having two really competent candidates in the store who I and other TL’s have coached and recommended for months. Four new external TL’s going into Q4. And one is for inbound, who we have a fantastic candidate for. Kid might end up quitting too now. We are fucked.


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## Noiinteam (Oct 20, 2022)

We had 3 team members promoted to team lead this month. Two stayed in our store and the 3rd went to the store he wanted.


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## MrT (Oct 21, 2022)

Unleashed Dog said:


> It all depends on who your SD and/or ETL are.
> Right now the SD/ETL combo at mine is threading into stupid territory after months of progress with the decision of hiring four new EXTERNAL hires as team leads, despite having two really competent candidates in the store who I and other TL’s have coached and recommended for months. Four new external TL’s going into Q4. And one is for inbound, who we have a fantastic candidate for. Kid might end up quitting too now. We are fucked.


I couldn't imagine hiring external for inbound.  It's such an overwhelming job if you don't know what you are doing.  Especially with internal candidates.  As a former tm who was overlooked for promotion it feels like such a kick in the teeth.


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## allnew2 (Oct 21, 2022)

MrT said:


> I couldn't imagine hiring external for inbound.  It's such an overwhelming job if you don't know what you are doing.  Especially with internal candidates.  As a former tm who was overlooked for promotion it feels like such a kick in the teeth.


I agree if you are not an internal inbound is just not a walk in the park. I’ve had Tl and tm from Walmart and they all said it was harder and of course they quit as well


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## Unleashed Dog (Oct 21, 2022)

MrT said:


> I couldn't imagine hiring external for inbound.  It's such an overwhelming job if you don't know what you are doing.  Especially with internal candidates.  As a former tm who was overlooked for promotion it feels like such a kick in the teeth.


Bro I had a rough time trying to keep the kid who wanted it from breaking down in the breakroom. Took him off stage into the HR office and sat there with him for 20 minutes or so. Offered to at least bring him to my work center and that Id do what i can to maybe get him transferred to a better location. It sucks cause he’s been busting his ass the past year and really taken charge in some of our most chaotic unloads and has owned them, really organized line and the team respects him and listens to him. Looks up truck details in his own and knows how to plan based on that.

They’re saying his to inexperienced which is bullshit. He knows what he’s doing and just needs support to be successful.


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