# Scared to speak up to SFS TL



## ashipgirl (Dec 2, 2020)

Hi, so I’m just a TM. I’ve been at my store for almost 1.5yrs and in SFS the entire time. A couple months ago our TL was having issues with TMs who were acting as a TL and pissing a lot of people off, so she started picking certain people to be pacesetters. I am one of them, as I work nights and weekends when she isn’t there. I have no problem being a pacesetter, despite the added responsibility with no compensation. We have a good team, mostly, and have a good flow most days.

However, recently our TL started assigning other TMs to be pacesetters when they abuse the role (they just hang out and “prep”, refuse to help do anything, sit around and flirt with other TMs) Last night I was not the pacesetter but the person who was was also scheduled with their significant other. When the TL is around, they’re mode TMs, but once she leaves, they just goof off and the PDA comes out. Our closing lead and overnight lead saw it and said they’d be reporting it, but also asked me to tell our TL. But these two TMs are part of her “favorites” and she protects them at all costs. I’m scared to speak out and be retaliated against in some way. Our TL gets very defensive and everything is always someone else’s fault.

Do I stick up for myself and the rest of the team, that they weren’t pulling their weight and setting a bad example? Or do I say nothing because I wasn’t the assigned pacesetter, so it’s not my responsibility? I like my job a lot and take pride in doing it correctly, but I’m not a babysitter or a TL. It’s not my job to constantly tell people to do their job. At some point that’s beyond my control, right?


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## MrT (Dec 2, 2020)

If you are worried about telling your team lead then, i would tell your hr since it deals with other team members.  If your closing lead amd overnight lead saw it then i would think it wouldnt matter how buddy buddy they are with there tl.
Also weird how you schedule pace setters like that.  I designated pace setters for my team, and they all are supposed to do those duties while they are there, and they were chosen for the times they work.


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## Captain Orca (Dec 2, 2020)

What is a "pace setter"?


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## commiecorvus (Dec 2, 2020)

Captain Orca said:


> What is a "pace setter"?



I'm guessing it's what they used to call a Captain back in the day.
You're a TM who works harder, sets and example for the rest of the crew, cover the ass of the TL when they aren't around but still gets paid the same as always.


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## ashipgirl (Dec 2, 2020)

MrT said:


> If you are worried about telling your team lead then, i would tell your hr since it deals with other team members.  If your closing lead amd overnight lead saw it then i would think it wouldnt matter how buddy buddy they are with there tl.
> Also weird how you schedule pace setters like that.  I designated pace setters for my team, and they all are supposed to do those duties while they are there, and they were chosen for the times they work.


The closing lead and overnight lead are not buddy-buddy with our TL (far from it), but HR is very buddy-buddy with this particular couple and our TL. I don’t trust our HR at all. Our store is a popularity contest for who can kiss the most leader butt and this couple takes the cake. This girl came in on her day off to bring our TL a thanksgiving gift 😑 our TL has very clear favorites (all boys) and let’s them get away with everything.


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## Dog (Dec 2, 2020)

The PDA thing is definitely an HR issue, however I find it really unprofessional that other TLs were there for this behavior, did not coach the team members involved on the spot, and want you to report it to your TL rather than deal with it... The whole situation sounds awful. As a fulfillment TL, I definitely had my favorites.. but if I found out that they were doing the wrong thing in my absence then it would be dealt with, friends or not. I’m sorry you have to deal with this. I would bring it up to your TL; I don’t think you will face repercussions, and if the behavior doesn’t stop after this I would go to your ETL


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## Ashfromoldsite (Dec 2, 2020)

ashipgirl said:


> Hi, so I’m just a TM. I’ve been at my store for almost 1.5yrs and in SFS the entire time. A couple months ago our TL was having issues with TMs who were acting as a TL and pissing a lot of people off, so she started picking certain people to be pacesetters. I am one of them, as I work nights and weekends when she isn’t there. I have no problem being a pacesetter, despite the added responsibility with no compensation. We have a good team, mostly, and have a good flow most days.
> 
> However, recently our TL started assigning other TMs to be pacesetters when they abuse the role (they just hang out and “prep”, refuse to help do anything, sit around and flirt with other TMs) Last night I was not the pacesetter but the person who was was also scheduled with their significant other. When the TL is around, they’re mode TMs, but once she leaves, they just goof off and the PDA comes out. Our closing lead and overnight lead saw it and said they’d be reporting it, but also asked me to tell our TL. But these two TMs are part of her “favorites” and she protects them at all costs. I’m scared to speak out and be retaliated against in some way. Our TL gets very defensive and everything is always someone else’s fault.
> 
> Do I stick up for myself and the rest of the team, that they weren’t pulling their weight and setting a bad example? Or do I say nothing because I wasn’t the assigned pacesetter, so it’s not my responsibility? I like my job a lot and take pride in doing it correctly, but I’m not a babysitter or a TL. It’s not my job to constantly tell people to do their job. At some point that’s beyond my control, right?


Skip your tl and go to hr.


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## Captain Orca (Dec 2, 2020)

Gimme more money and I'll be your pace setter-trainer-bale boy-mustard setter upper.  No more money?  I'll remain a slug.  Your call there sunshine....(to one of our old TL's).


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## Nauzhror (Dec 2, 2020)

Captain Orca said:


> Gimme more money and I'll be your pace setter-trainer-bale boy-mustard setter upper.  No more money?  I'll remain a slug.  Your call there sunshine....(to one of our old TL's).


Target pays the top performers more than the rest, just not in the way they'd like to be paid more. They get more hours, not more per hour.


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## Captain Orca (Dec 2, 2020)

I never bitched about hours, I just did the gig for something to do.  48 years of solid work, I saved my clams....still do.....When they had the hiring parties they really screwed over the hard working vets who, by the way, were all over 45 years old.  It was fun while it lasted.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Dec 2, 2020)

ashipgirl said:


> The closing lead and overnight lead are not buddy-buddy with our TL (far from it), but HR is very buddy-buddy with this particular couple and our TL. I don’t trust our HR at all. Our store is a popularity contest for who can kiss the most leader butt and this couple takes the cake. This girl came in on her day off to bring our TL a thanksgiving gift 😑 our TL has very clear favorites (all boys) and let’s them get away with everything.


Sorry you have to deal with this little nest of favoritism and butt kissing. Wish I had a solution for you,  but in this situation  I don’t think going to your TL would be in your best interests. 
Incidentally, your TL (and anyone else in leadership) is not supposed to accept gifts from TMs (or ETLs from TLs and on and on). Just saying.


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## Planosss enraged (Dec 2, 2020)

First of all wow, the vividness of the drama, save yourself a lot of trouble and stay out of it.


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## ashipgirl (Dec 2, 2020)

Thanks everyone! I talked to the closing lead tonight and she said she put it in her email last night and nobody said a word to her about it. She told me to call the 800 number because she knows HR won’t do anything about it. I’ve heard stories from TMs at other stores to avoid the 800 because it’s there to protect Target and the leads, not TMs.

I don’t think I’m going to do anything. I can’t afford to lose my job and don’t trust any of the leads, other than the closing one. Our TL only favors the college kids and those of us who are 30+ get walked all over. Several “vets” have already quit or are going to after Q4. She doesn’t respect us at all and we’re pulling most of the weight, especially when she’s not there. It really sucks.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Dec 3, 2020)

Good plan! Protect yourself and your job. Absolutely do not call the hotline, if the TL wants the hotline to know what’s going on, let _her_ make the call, not pass the buck to you and jeopardize your job or hours.😁 Good luck, hope it works out well for you.


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## allnew2 (Dec 3, 2020)

Captain Orca said:


> What is a "pace setter"?


A position that doesn’t exist anymore


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## allnew2 (Dec 3, 2020)

commiecorvus said:


> I'm guessing it's what they used to call a Captain back in the day.


Someone who pushes the boxes down the line not even close to a captain 😎 also that position doesn’t exist since the team consist of 5 sorters and one unloader


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## allnew2 (Dec 3, 2020)

Pace setter is less of a job than a cardboard baler person . It is the easiest thing you can do on the line by just pushing boxes .😅


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## Hardlinesmaster (Dec 3, 2020)

Don't call the hotline. I would talk to hr or sd.


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## MrT (Dec 3, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> A position that doesn’t exist anymore


There is a pace setter role for sfs too.  We also still call the person on the corner of our truck our pace setter because they are supposed to ensure that everyone is moving.  When i did it it was far from easy.  I can see how it would be easier in a store with a straight dock door, but i had to plan and pallerize the transition as well as sort bulk plastics, paper, infant furniture, and diapers. As well as make sure the boxes didnt go shooting off on the curve.


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## commiecorvus (Dec 3, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Someone who pushes the boxes down the line not even close to a captain 😎 also that position doesn’t exist since the team consist of 5 sorters and one unloader



So, Like @MrT  I'm picturing what we called the CM (which I think meant Corner  Man back in the Dark Ages but was shortened for obvious reasons).
This position was needed because came our our line came out of the truck then took a hard turn to start down the line.
I can't imagine ours was the only one to do that.
It needed someone at the 'corner' to keep everything flowing smoothly and at good speed.
They could also help sort, like during Christmas when you needed Xtra areas for toys.

But 90% of the time the CM was either the ETL Logistics or the TL Logistics.
They were the ones setting the pace.
Well, them and whoever was throwing the truck.


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## allnew2 (Dec 3, 2020)

commiecorvus said:


> So, Like @MrT  I'm picturing what we called the CM (which I think meant Corner  Man back in the Dark Ages but was shortened for obvious reasons).
> This position was needed because came our our line came out of the truck then took a hard turn to start down the line.
> I can't imagine ours was the only one to do that.
> It needed someone at the 'corner' to keep everything flowing smoothly and at good speed.
> ...


I guess I’m starting to realize that not every store has electric skates .


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## allnew2 (Dec 3, 2020)

MrT said:


> it would be easier in a store with a straight dock door


I have 4 docks so whenever I do the trailer from 3rd or second I do have a curve . But like I mention it was my mistake to think every store have electric skates where you wouldn’t need a pace setter since the thrower would push the boxes and the skates do their thing.


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## Shizle7 (Dec 3, 2020)

We have pacesetters at our store.  When the SFS lead is out, they are responsible for assigning duties (prep, opu, pack, sort), making sure the break/meal schedule is followed and taking calls on missing items (we have a strict no INF rule).  There is no addtl compemnsation at out store for the pacesetter.


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## allnew2 (Dec 3, 2020)

Shizle7 said:


> pacesetters


This is for trucks only


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## FlowTeamChick (Dec 3, 2020)

Wow, what absolutely atrocious, unprofessional behavior you have to be around!  Seems to me that you're in a tough spot with few good options, given that the favorites game AND the "it's not my fault" game are both played by your TL. And it doesn't sound like your store's HR is a good resource.
What about your SD?  If they're also not a good resource, probably best to just keep your head down, do an excellent job, and look for something else if it's more than you can take.  If you can stick with it, your current TL may eventually move on and your work environment may then improve.  Really feel sorry for you!


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## MrT (Dec 3, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I have 4 docks so whenever I do the trailer from 3rd or second I do have a curve . But like I mention it was my mistake to think every store have electric skates where you wouldn’t need a pace setter since the thrower would push the boxes and the skates do their thing.


Yeah that makes sense my old store had electric skates which was nice but i rarely did the truck there.


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## MrT (Dec 3, 2020)

commiecorvus said:


> So, Like @MrT  I'm picturing what we called the CM (which I think meant Corner  Man back in the Dark Ages but was shortened for obvious reasons).
> This position was needed because came our our line came out of the truck then took a hard turn to start down the line.
> I can't imagine ours was the only one to do that.
> It needed someone at the 'corner' to keep everything flowing smoothly and at good speed.
> ...


Yeah exactly rn overnight the tls have to work the corner because they dont have enough people on the truck, but yeah like everything else in target duties got pushed down the line so tls now are rarely on the truck line during regular days.


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## commiecorvus (Dec 3, 2020)

Shizle7 said:


> We have pacesetters at our store.  When the SFS lead is out, they are responsible for assigning duties (prep, opu, pack, sort), making sure the break/meal schedule is followed and taking calls on missing items (we have a strict no INF rule).  There is no addtl compemnsation at out store for the pacesetter.



Now this sounds more like the captains that I was talking about.


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## commiecorvus (Dec 3, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I have 4 docks so whenever I do the trailer from 3rd or second I do have a curve . But like I mention it was my mistake to think every store have electric skates where you wouldn’t need a pace setter since the thrower would push the boxes and the skates do their thing.



What are these 'electric skates' you speak of?
They must be a magic thing from a land where animals talk and a white witch gives you pastries that taste like a dream.


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## Proficient (Dec 3, 2020)

This year I stopped being an Pacesetter/Captain duties so nothing phased me anymore it’s actually better. Nomore ETLs and SDs constantly calling on you for update. I simply now just come to work and leave on time.


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## Dog (Dec 3, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> This is for trucks only


I only know it’s for fulfillment too because they printed out the official communication establishing the position when they offered it to me lol


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## seasonaldude (Dec 3, 2020)

Can you not go to your ETL about this stuff? As a fulfillment pacesetter, if there is anything that my TL is blind about I know that I can just go talk to my ETL. I barely have to open my mouth and she knows exactly what I'm there to talk about. Keep in mind that the wheels of Spot justice turn very slowly. When dealing with permanent TMs all the i's and t's have to be dotted and crossed. I know that a couple of veterans in my department are in the process of getting performanced out (they deserve it without any doubts), but it's a long process.  We'll replace them with seasonals who are showing promise.

Talk to your ETL, let them know what's going on. They might already know and be on it.


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## allnew2 (Dec 3, 2020)

commiecorvus said:


> What are these 'electric skates' you speak of?
> They must be a magic thing from a land where animals talk and a white witch gives you pastries that taste like a dream.


Like I said I’ve never heard of pacesetter in any other position besides inbound which it was a position to push the boxes down the line . So electric skates you push the button and the boxes moves on its own .


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## allnew2 (Dec 3, 2020)

Dog said:


> I only know it’s for fulfillment too because they printed out the official communication establishing the position when they offered it to me lol


And was it called pacesetter or Captain? Because I think this is where everyone is confused 10-15 years ago pacesetter was a position for inbound where you had a person on the truck pushing boxes down the line , we also had a bulk person and receiving person  and cardboard person .


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## Yetive (Dec 4, 2020)

New position this year for SFS. I think from Oct planner.


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## allnew2 (Dec 4, 2020)

Yetive said:


> New position this year for SFS. I think from Oct planner.


Okay so I’m not crazy 😂


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## Yetive (Dec 4, 2020)

You could still be crazy 🤣


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## Dog (Dec 4, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> And was it called pacesetter or Captain? Because I think this is where everyone is confused 10-15 years ago pacesetter was a position for inbound where you had a person on the truck pushing boxes down the line , we also had a bulk person and receiving person  and cardboard person .


It was really called a pacesetter! I think they just recycled the term lol you’re not going crazy


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## allnew2 (Dec 4, 2020)

Yetive said:


> You could still be crazy 🤣


That’s a fact but that besides the point 😂


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