# Perfect sort (inbound)



## Sushi2Go (Oct 23, 2020)

Is "perfect sort" a new thing in receiving? It's taken inbound from 1 hour of sorting the truck to almost 4 hours now. It's like modernization all over again. Can someone explain this new process and how is it going so far at yor store? I far as I can tell, it doesn't help me push that much faster.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Oct 23, 2020)

@allnew2 please assist.


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## allnew2 (Oct 23, 2020)

“ perfect sort” as you put it was something  that I was tasked with to do and succeeded . I am a triple A store with doubles and triple trucks.  P1 and market comes in at 4 inbound comes at 6, by 6:45 p1 and market should already move into truck.And the process revolves around safety most of it as well as a deeper sort I don’t know why your inbound is taking from an 1h to 4h now. Does the team consist of 5 people sorting , a thrower and a p2 pusher? If not that’s why they would take longer . There is no longer secondary sort. Zone 4, 15 and combos gets sorted as they come off the truck . 3 goes straight on the dbo vehicles. By having a deeper sort you will utilize more vehicles hence why I have a p2 pusher scheduled under inbound , so that should make the push faster . 
One truck should not take more than 2h. Keep in mind That even with triple trucks they have to be done in 4.75. Inbound is no longer scheduled full shifts.
So yes the process work , and Im sorry. I have a lot of stores calling me and complain about it .


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## seasonaldude (Oct 23, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> “ perfect sort” as you put it was something  that I was tasked with to do and succeeded . I am a triple A store with doubles and triple trucks.  P1 and market comes in at 4 inbound comes at 6, by 6:45 p1 and market should already move into truck.And the process revolves around safety most of it as well as a deeper sort I don’t know why your inbound is taking from an 1h to 4h now. Does the team consist of 5 people sorting , a thrower and a p2 pusher? If not that’s why they would take longer . There is no longer secondary sort. Zone 4, 15 and combos gets sorted as they come off the truck . 3 goes straight on the dbo vehicles. By having a deeper sort you will utilize more vehicles hence why I have a p2 pusher scheduled under inbound , so that should make the push faster .
> One truck should not take more than 2h. Keep in mind That even with triple trucks they have to be done in 4.75. Inbound is no longer scheduled full shifts.
> So yes the process work , and Im sorry. I have a lot of stores calling me and complain about it .



Can you please come to my store and teach them how to do it? I'm lucky on the days I don't find a 2 on a home vehicle.


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## allnew2 (Oct 23, 2020)

seasonaldude said:


> Can you please come to my store and teach them how to do it? I'm lucky on the days I don't find a 2 on a home vehicle.


2 wtf 😮. 2 as in cosmetics or 2 as in electronics? Either way wtf . I actually hace Etl log from reg 200 and 300 coming to learn it. My Sd or Dtl would not let me go to other stores .


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## BurgerBob (Oct 23, 2020)

Ok this explains why my electronics cage  has gotten interesting


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 23, 2020)

This is the first time that I’ve heard of this. Is there a guide for this similar to when sort and stock was released?


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## Sushi2Go (Oct 23, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> “ perfect sort” as you put it was something  that I was tasked with to do and succeeded . I am a triple A store with doubles and triple trucks.  P1 and market comes in at 4 inbound comes at 6, by 6:45 p1 and market should already move into truck.And the process revolves around safety most of it as well as a deeper sort I don’t know why your inbound is taking from an 1h to 4h now. Does the team consist of 5 people sorting , a thrower and a p2 pusher? If not that’s why they would take longer . There is no longer secondary sort. Zone 4, 15 and combos gets sorted as they come off the truck . 3 goes straight on the dbo vehicles. By having a deeper sort you will utilize more vehicles hence why I have a p2 pusher scheduled under inbound , so that should make the push faster .
> One truck should not take more than 2h. Keep in mind That even with triple trucks they have to be done in 4.75. Inbound is no longer scheduled full shifts.
> So yes the process work , and Im sorry. I have a lot of stores calling me and complain about it .



I'm not sure how many people is involved in inbound sorting. I just know as a GM, our receiving is a hot mess lately. Thanks for the explaination though. Hoping it improves.


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## jenna (Oct 23, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> “ perfect sort” as you put it was something  that I was tasked with to do and succeeded . I am a triple A store with doubles and triple trucks.  P1 and market comes in at 4 inbound comes at 6, by 6:45 p1 and market should already move into truck.And the process revolves around safety most of it as well as a deeper sort I don’t know why your inbound is taking from an 1h to 4h now. Does the team consist of 5 people sorting , a thrower and a p2 pusher? If not that’s why they would take longer .* There is no longer secondary sort.* Zone 4, 15 and combos gets sorted as they come off the truck . 3 goes straight on the dbo vehicles. By having a deeper sort you will utilize more vehicles hence why I have a p2 pusher scheduled under inbound , so that should make the push faster .
> One truck should not take more than 2h. Keep in mind That even with triple trucks they have to be done in 4.75. Inbound is no longer scheduled full shifts.
> So yes the process work , and Im sorry. I have a lot of stores calling me and complain about it .



What is secondary sort?


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## allnew2 (Oct 23, 2020)

TheQuietStorm said:


> This is the first time that I’ve heard of this. Is there a guide for this similar to when sort and stock was released?


No it is  something that my Sd came up with , took it to the dtl , than the region VP loved it and now it’s being implemented to all the other stores


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## allnew2 (Oct 23, 2020)

jenna said:


> What is secondary sort?


It use to be that you would break the houseware and bed and baths repacks into metro racks . That no longer a thing


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 23, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> No it is  something that my Sd came up with , took it to the dtl , than the region VP loved it and now it’s being implemented to all the other stores


A little confused. What’s the difference between this and the normal unload?


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## allnew2 (Oct 23, 2020)

TheQuietStorm said:


> A little confused. What’s the difference between this and the normal unload?


Well let’s see you have 4.5 h to unload 2 or 3 trucks. While maintaining safety at all times meaning no unloading on docks , nothing or third or 4th aisles in receiving , no uboats under the steal during the unload , no vehicles higher than 5.4 . No empty pallets in the truck , no tv or spills , no boxes ever on the ground as well as no transition on pallets. No pallets what’s so ever.  Zone ,2,4 , 15 and combos gets sorted right off the line. No staging of any repacks .


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## Unleashed Dog (Oct 24, 2020)

No boxes on the ground or transition on pallets? What next level insanity is this. How do you get a team to be _that_ efficient.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

Unleashed Dog said:


> No boxes on the ground or transition on pallets? What next level insanity is this. How do you get a team to be _that_ efficient.


One that works .I was able to do it. Everything goes straight on vehicles for the dbos. The part that all the stores are missing from this process is having that p2 person scheduled under inbound. That person is there to maintain your p2 vehicles short by pushing . Depends on what comes most in the truck I have them sustain that area. Right now is all the home decor transition I partner with the GMTL for p2 to set their salesplaners early. Since we all know around this time is all the nutcrackers , blankets, pillow and candles coming off the truck. Your inbound team will get better at it if you explain the whys behind it.


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## No I in Team (Oct 24, 2020)

I've been trying to explain this to my TL & ETL since allnew2 began talking about it. The only thing I've heard is backlash. The laugh at me while they continue to do things pre modernization while working under modernization rules. My TL has NEVER read the work instructions on Workbench.

The only feedback I've received is that I'm too slow. Strange how the line stays full while I wait for them to unload. Then they add to the line and wonder why I can't keep up. Or when I am stuck unloading "trash pallets side by side, six deep in the middle of the trailer. I hear your taking too long.

Needless to say I'll be heading down the road.

We are so screwed with these changes. 

Pics of our trailers and other things later.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

No I in Team said:


> I've been trying to explain this to my TL & ETL since allnew2 began talking about it. The only thing I've heard is backlash. The laugh at me while they continue to do things pre modernization while working under modernization rules. My TL has NEVER read the work instructions on Workbench.
> 
> The only feedback I've received is that I'm too slow. Strange how the line stays full while I wait for them to unload. Then they add to the line and wonder why I can't keep up. Or when I am stuck unloading "trash pallets side by side, six deep in the middle of the trailer. I hear your taking too long.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about this.  You are not the only one that struggles with their etl in regards to this process. From what I gather from other Tl from other stores was that the etl or Sd don’t really understand what this process entail , some have said to me that their sd or etl has said ohh this process is about p1 and market coming in before the truck and that’s it.  But is not that if you think about it’s safety all around , if p1 and market comes in at 4 , unload comes at 6 and by 6:45 those two teams are moving into the truck you will be able to maintain safety with your vehicles, hence why the p2 pusher is schedule under inbound to maintain safety as well.


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## No I in Team (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> One that works .I was able to do it. Everything goes straight on vehicles for the dbos. The part that all the stores are missing from this process is having that p2 person scheduled under inbound. That person is there to maintain your p2 vehicles short by pushing . Depends on what comes most in the truck I have them sustain that area. Right now is all the home decor transition I partner with the GMTL for p2 to set their salesplaners early. Since we all know around this time is all the nutcrackers , blankets, pillow and candles coming off the truck. Your inbound team will get better at it if you explain the whys behind it.



I got so fed up with the secrecy of trailer contents, I've started breaking them down with greenfield so we can do exactly what you doing with large numbers of dpci's; wipes, tv's under 50", and whatever else comes in excessive amounts. The problem is that I have no one to hand them off to get thing rolling. The team gets it and likes the idea of getting things out if the way that would otherwise overwhelm our u-boats.

We sort transition right off the line on to pallets that are in everyone's way. Talk about accident'S waiting to happen.


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Well let’s see you have 4.5 h to unload 2 or 3 trucks. While maintaining safety at all times meaning no unloading on docks , nothing or third or 4th aisles in receiving , no uboats under the steal during the unload , no vehicles higher than 5.4 . No empty pallets in the truck , no tv or spills , no boxes ever on the ground as well as no transition on pallets. No pallets what’s so ever.  Zone ,2,4 , 15 and combos gets sorted right off the line. No staging of any repacks .


So do you sort transition onto uboats? Or transition gets sorted into pallets and put immediately in the steel?


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> “ perfect sort” as you put it was something  that I was tasked with to do and succeeded . I am a triple A store with doubles and triple trucks.  P1 and market comes in at 4 inbound comes at 6, by 6:45 p1 and market should already move into truck.And the process revolves around safety most of it as well as a deeper sort I don’t know why your inbound is taking from an 1h to 4h now. Does the team consist of 5 people sorting , a thrower and a p2 pusher? If not that’s why they would take longer . There is no longer secondary sort. Zone 4, 15 and combos gets sorted as they come off the truck . 3 goes straight on the dbo vehicles. By having a deeper sort you will utilize more vehicles hence why I have a p2 pusher scheduled under inbound , so that should make the push faster .
> One truck should not take more than 2h. Keep in mind That even with triple trucks they have to be done in 4.75. Inbound is no longer scheduled full shifts.
> So yes the process work , and Im sorry. I have a lot of stores calling me and complain about it .


Since P1 & Market are coming in at 4 - what are they doing ? Since your inbound team doesn’t come in until 6am?


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

TheQuietStorm said:


> Since P1 & Market are coming in at 4 - what are they doing ? Since your inbound team doesn’t come in until 6am?


Return, zone and their one for one


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

TheQuietStorm said:


> So do you sort transition onto uboats? Or transition gets sorted into pallets and put immediately in the steel?


No transition on the steal. Everything goes on the vehicles and pushed to floor.


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> No transition on the steal. Everything goes on the vehicles and pushed to floor.


How did this work with Trim a Tree? Did you set it super early ?


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

Someone has mentioned that they struggle with the Pipo . The way I have it if  pipos are coming out before p1 or market goes to lunch I called either the dbo or the Tl to come get . Like I said no unloading on the dock not even for a minute. But On my second truck p1 and market are on lunch so then if I have Pipo it moves to the left side of the truck inside and continue with unload. But now I’m trying something new. Unloading 2 trailers at the same time. Same amount of people on the line but an extra thrower for the second truck.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

TheQuietStorm said:


> How did this work with Trim a Tree? Did you set it super early ?


That’s the magic of it. You set early . Besides I am an early set store


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## moninity (Oct 24, 2020)

How’s that working out for Trim-A-Tree? We’re sitting on 40+ pallets up in the steel. Is all of that suppose to go to the floor the day it comes in?


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

40+ shit that’s a lot. All I have is mini but it’s all backstock. They way I had it when it came off the truck it went straight to backstock mostly just blue since I started setting green and the trees first . 
However I planned Christmas 3 months ahead cleared the spots to where it would be all back stocked .


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

The key to big transitions Is always to plan ahead . You can’t just wait until the freight starts coming in because then you end up with pallets And no place to go. Just like  like with the too toys signing. I had my Tl for toys putting his risers up , as well as home and seasonal . All the space for backstock was made 3 months ago , once freight started coming in , it went straight to backstock. The only think I allowed in the steal was the trees 🌲 but even that only if they had enough to make a bulk pallets


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## moninity (Oct 24, 2020)

We have the room for some but definitely not all and we can set some aisles but not all as we are sitting on about 10 aisles of costumes that nobody is shopping for and mini seasonal we might have one aisle we can set. Halloween decorations is 90% empty.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

moninity said:


> We have the room for some but definitely not all and we can set some aisles but not all as we are sitting on about 10 aisles of costumes that nobody is shopping for and mini seasonal we might have one aisle we can set. Halloween decorations is 90% empty.


The goal is to condense everything towards mini . Use some t-frames for costumes also get with style Etl to get costumes in their area . Of course if you gonna do that you want to make it where it has sense and not just start dumping it everywhere. Like all the pets costumes were selling better in pets. I took adult costumes for men’s and made a t-frame right in front of men’s not on the racetrack tho, same thing with kids costumes so forth and so on.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

I know it’s a lot , but strategy , planing and partnering with the ETLs of the areas will help


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

Unleashed Dog said:


> No boxes on the ground or transition on pallets? What next level insanity is this. How do you get a team to be _that_ efficient.


So, what about Xmas trees? or any other huge items that are in transition?

ETA:  nevermind.  Not all things can be set early.  Target would have to change it's clearance strategy.


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## seasonaldude (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Return, zone and their one for one


 When are you acknowledging that first trailer then? If you aren't doing it until the unload team comes in at 6, then wouldn't you be making one for ones bigger for market and P1 while also having to backstock more coming off the truck? But, if you're acknowledging at 4 without starting the unload for another couple of hours, you're potentially screwing over fulfillment, especially as we get into Q4 with high demand toys and tech.


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

Sometimes I get product so early that it doesn't have a POG attached to it yet.  Or the strips aren't in yet.


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

We don't have the man hours or the u-boats to unload 2 trucks in less than 4.5 hours.  We also don't have the space to store a ton of extra u-boats.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

seasonaldude said:


> When are you acknowledging that first trailer then? If you aren't doing it until the unload team comes in at 6, then wouldn't you be making one for ones bigger for market and P1 while also having to backstock more coming off the truck? But, if you're acknowledging at 4 without starting the unload for another couple of hours, you're potentially screwing over fulfillment, especially as we get into Q4 with high demand toys and tech.


Everyone had that question before . One for one are no longer counted in the trailer . With Myday the one for one is already there when they come in at 4. Since it drops thru out the day. Trailer gets acknowledged at 6. Fulfillment doesn’t get affected in that way.i actually made it easier for flex by doing 2 trucks at the same time.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> So, what about Xmas trees? or any other huge items that are in transition?
> 
> ETA:  nevermind.  Not all things can be set early.  Target would have to change it's clearance strategy.


Christmas tree at my store goes under the table . I have 2 rows of tables. I removed those aisles first


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

moninity said:


> How’s that working out for Trim-A-Tree? We’re sitting on 40+ pallets up in the steel. Is all of that suppose to go to the floor the day it comes in?


And what about hand sanitizer?


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> And what about hand sanitizer?


Towers , endcaps . How much hand sanitizer you sit on?


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

If setting early - what about all the clearance and d-code?  I am thinking areas like stationary and toys and E/E would be a hot mess.


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Towers , endcaps . How much hand sanitizer you sit on?


: Maniacal laughter that ends in tears:  

I would pm you an answer, but you have turned off the ability to receive pms.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> If setting early - what about all the clearance and d-code?  I am thinking areas like stationary and toys and E/E would be a hot mess.


Stat really sucked this year with all the markdown later so it’s understandable that some is just gonna go salvage. But so far I haven’t had any issues with toys or e/e .


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> : Maniacal laughter that ends in tears:


Why?


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Why?


We have a lot of sanitizer


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

What about bulk paper, chem, and diapers?  We don’t have enough vehicles to handle the flood of products we will sometimes receive. Or plastics?


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

How do you set early with no payroll?  Sometimes the DBOs get 4 hour shifts.  And SFS blows up and requires help.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> What about bulk paper, chem, and diapers?  We don’t have enough vehicles to handle the flood of products we will sometimes receive. Or plastics?


You mean push or for backstock?


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> How do you set early with no payroll?  Sometimes the DBOs get 4 hour shifts.


With the Plano experts . I have 5


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 24, 2020)

How long did it take you to implement all of this ?


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> You mean push or for backstock?


Push off the truck.  We sometimes get pallets of products- especially since they are so large. Not talking about PIPO.


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> With the Plano experts . I have 5


So, you have payroll for this. We do not.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

Here is the thing . I’m not perfect , when I was tasked with this new process I struggled and failed for a week an enough. I went from inbound being scheduled for 2 trucks full shift to all the sudden inbound being scheduled 4.5 hours . When that week stared I struggled a lot and all I kept hearing from my SD was where I was gonna get that payroll to extend , I could have talked back and said I still have 350h under inbound if I loook at the dashboard but didn’t. Instead I rolled with the punches . Take the not unloading on the dock killed me the first week, but then when the Dtl came to see the process he even said this would work great for singles truck store . And I even said to my Sd see even he thinks it’s a lot for a store with doubles , but that didn’t change anything because I was told you can do it. I’m a problem solver and off-site thought me a lot of strategy . And it’s all about when you start this process is to actually staff in a way that makes sense .


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> Push off the truck.  We sometimes get pallets of products- especially since they are so large. Not talking about PIPO.


Your p1 has only 4.5 hours scheduled? 😮


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> : Maniacal laughter that ends in tears:
> 
> I would pm you an answer, but you have turned off the ability to receive pms.


Let me see if I can change that lol


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## JohnSith373 (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> No it is  something that my Sd came up with , took it to the dtl , than the region VP loved it and now it’s being implemented to all the other stores


Their implementing after Q4, right?


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

JohnSith373 said:


> Their implementing after Q4, right?


Stores in two different districts already stared


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Your p1 has only 4.5 hours scheduled? 😮


yes.  sometimes less.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> yes.


Wtf. Now I see and understand you a lot better. That will not work. There is not way . P1 should be full shifts as well as market . That’s what your guests shop first.


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## jenna (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Here is the thing . I’m not perfect , when I was tasked with this new process I struggled and failed for a week an enough. I went from inbound being scheduled for 2 trucks full shift to all the sudden inbound being scheduled 4.5 hours . When that week stared I struggled a lot and all I kept hearing from my SD was where I was gonna get that payroll to extend , I could have talked back and said I still have 350h under inbound if I loook at the dashboard but didn’t. Instead I rolled with the punches . Take the not unloading on the dock killed me the first week, but then when the Dtl came to see the process he even said this would work great for singles truck store . And I even said to my Sd see even he thinks it’s a lot for a store with doubles , but that didn’t change anything because I was told you can do it. I’m a problem solver and off-site thought me a lot of strategy .* And it’s all about when you start this process is to actually staff in a way that makes sense .*


bingo.  Payroll.

and space.  You have to have a big enough backroom to handle all the u-boats and flats and product.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> bingo.  Payroll.
> 
> and space.  You have to have a big enough backroom to handle all the u-boats and flats and product.


So now you see where my 350h from inbound went. 😉 . I’m doing two trucks with less hours .4.5 for inbound and rest went to ahem .....hours week 3


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

jenna said:


> So, you have payroll for this. We do not.


Yes for big transitions.  An when work is slow I probably have just 2


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## Unleashed Dog (Oct 24, 2020)

Wow. I really like this efficient approach. I might be taking over a broken inbound team soon, and it has so many problems with pumping tons of pallets onto the steel and transition being all over the place. The approach with the p2 pusher under inbound also makes sense, my old store did something similar with having a p2 DBO push out their department.

At my current store setting planners doesn’t seem to be a big issue in terms of payroll. I think it’s more in concern of the communication within the GM team.

Also have the same issue with the sanitizer. All should go out in fixtures and towers?

Ah....and just remember the several pallets of BTS we have too...


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

Unleashed Dog said:


> a p2 DBO push out their department.


It’s not similar if he pushes his own department. You use  he trailer details to see the heaviness workload for p2 and that’s what he pushes . Utilize that trailer detail and bulk and it will make your life   easier


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## MavDog (Oct 24, 2020)

seasonaldude said:


> When are you acknowledging that first trailer then? If you aren't doing it until the unload team comes in at 6, then wouldn't you be making one for ones bigger for market and P1 while also having to backstock more coming off the truck? But, if you're acknowledging at 4 without starting the unload for another couple of hours, you're potentially screwing over fulfillment, especially as we get into Q4 with high demand toys and tech.


Market is supposed to always pull their 1for1s before truck acknowledgment in order to get the soonest expiring merchandise on the floor first and send the new cases worth of merchandise to the back


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## MavDog (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> “ perfect sort” as you put it was something  that I was tasked with to do and succeeded . I am a triple A store with doubles and triple trucks.  P1 and market comes in at 4 inbound comes at 6, by 6:45 p1 and market should already move into truck.And the process revolves around safety most of it as well as a deeper sort I don’t know why your inbound is taking from an 1h to 4h now. Does the team consist of 5 people sorting , a thrower and a p2 pusher? If not that’s why they would take longer . There is no longer secondary sort. Zone 4, 15 and combos gets sorted as they come off the truck . 3 goes straight on the dbo vehicles. By having a deeper sort you will utilize more vehicles hence why I have a p2 pusher scheduled under inbound , so that should make the push faster .
> One truck should not take more than 2h. Keep in mind That even with triple trucks they have to be done in 4.75. Inbound is no longer scheduled full shifts.
> So yes the process work , and Im sorry. I have a lot of stores calling me and complain about it .


Does your count of 5 include the softlines sort?


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

MavDog said:


> Does your count of 5 include the softlines sort?


No no no.


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## JohnSith373 (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Sorry to hear about this.  You are not the only one that struggles with their etl in regards to this process. From what I gather from other Tl from other stores was that the etl or Sd don’t really understand what this process entail , some have said to me that their sd or etl has said ohh this process is about p1 and market coming in before the truck and that’s it.  But is not that if you think about it’s safety all around , if p1 and market comes in at 4 , unload comes at 6 and by 6:45 those two teams are moving into the truck you will be able to maintain safety with your vehicles, hence why the p2 pusher is schedule under inbound to maintain safety as well.


My store started to implement a bit of the process in September, P1 and market at 4am but with unload at 5am. I don't think we had P2 pusher scheduled until 2 hours after unload start and they would be under GM. That's maybe where my store went wrong. We switched back to 4am for Q4 as we barely started implementing "perfect sort."
The TM that came in with the TL would be the thrower and the bulk person. After the truck is finished, the bulk person would clean up the leftover bulk pallets and push out or backstock any PIPOs. Mix of "perfect sort" and premodernization.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

JohnSith373 said:


> After the truck is finished, the bulk person would clean up the leftover bulk pallets and push out or backstock any PIPOs.


If you do the process as it was made  , you won’t have anything to clean since the whole process is safety , meaning no boxes on the ground all pipos either are pushed or backstock right away .   Truck done , skates away and dock closed .After truck the team can just support pushing . The p2 pusher coming 2h after unloads starts I think it’s to late .


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## JohnSith373 (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> If you do the process as it was made  , you won’t have anything to clean since the whole process is safety , meaning no boxes on the ground all pipos either are pushed or backstock right away .   Truck done , skates away and dock closed .After truck the team can just support pushing . The p2 pusher coming 2h after unloads starts I think it’s to late .


Did you do this process as a inbound TL, coming in at 4am and then work the unload at 6am while going to lunch at before 9am?
The current TLs were struggling with coming in at 330am, P1 and market at 4am and unload at 5am. One TL would take the whole team to lunch with them. While the other TL would leave and pull a TM to replace them while on lunch. Our inbound TL comes in at 330am with other TLs at 4am.


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

JohnSith373 said:


> Did you do this process as a inbound TL, coming in at 4am and then work the unload at 6am while going to lunch at before 9am?
> The current TLs were struggling with coming in at 330am, P1 and market at 4am and unload at 5am. One TL would take the whole team to lunch with them. While the other TL would leave and pull a TM to replace them while on lunch. Our inbound TL comes in at 330am with other TLs at 4am.


Yes I actually did . It was my task to do as a promotion to Etl log. That’s when I made the change from inbound to start at 6am , p1 and market at 4 am. I have doubles everyday and 2 triples a week.


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## Unleashed Dog (Oct 24, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> It’s not similar if he pushes his own department. You use  he trailer details to see the heaviness workload for p2 and that’s what he pushes . Utilize that trailer detail and bulk and it will make your life   easier


Greenfield has been bonkers for us lately. Truck details have been showing up late in the afternoon, and even by the time I’m closing the store, a lot of the numbers still show ridiculous counts in the thousands for each dept. Only time we can get an accurate picture of the workload is almost by the time the team comes in to unload the truck.

I think I get what you’re saying though. It’s like having a P2 pusher that will serve as a wild card to counter whatever will be the bulkiest/biggest load on the P2 side as we unload?

Also, is there anything about “perfect sort” in workbench or anywhere that can be read upon?


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

Unleashed Dog said:


> think I get what you’re saying though. It’s like having a P2 pusher that will serve as a wild card to counter whatever will be the bulkiest/biggest load on the P2 side as we unload?


Correct. 


Unleashed Dog said:


> Also, is there anything about “perfect sort” in workbench or anywhere that can be read upon?


You won’t find any At this time because we just started in July and made it work . But since is already going to other stores it might be a new guide coming 2021



As for the greenfield I know the no has been showing weird . However if you open the replenishment workload into a new tab and reload it you will get the accurate numbers .


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 24, 2020)

@allnew2 I think you should write a perfect sort and stock guide lol


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## allnew2 (Oct 24, 2020)

TheQuietStorm said:


> @allnew2 I think you should write a perfect sort and stock guide lol


😂 I thought about it. I even came up with an idea for q4 where all dbos are only focusing on truck. So here it goes at 10:30pm To 7am I  will have a Tl with a team of 7 tm doing returns , zone , pull all one for one and stock it.( no style tho) than inbound comes at 6 . and at 6::45 p1,and market comes in to start on trucks  , and 8 am p2.  All dbos are to focus on trucks and guest and a zone touch up before they go. I’m starting it next week 😉


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## Unleashed Dog (Oct 24, 2020)

Is this process being considered for different types of stores? I noticed you mention you’re r in a very high volume one. I’ve only worked mid volume P-Fresh and S-Targets. From what I can understand, it should be applicable to the processes I’ve seen at those types of stores. I’m still curious though. I also heard some S-Targets have GM issues due to payroll or something.


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## JiJi (Oct 25, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> That’s the magic of it. You set early . Besides I am an early set store


 they won't let us set early, so we sit on a bunch of pallets with nowhere to put them


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## allnew2 (Oct 25, 2020)

Unleashed Dog said:


> Is this process being considered for different types of stores? I noticed you mention you’re r in a very high volume one. I’ve only worked mid volume P-Fresh and S-Targets. From what I can understand, it should be applicable to the processes I’ve seen at those types of stores. I’m still curious though. I also heard some S-Targets have GM issues due to payroll or something.


That is correct , I’m a high volume store. We knew the process would be perfect for stores that get single truck , the idea was to see if it would work for stores that get doubles everyday and triples . And it does , so now it’s spreading like wildfire 😆


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## Logo (Oct 25, 2020)

So when it's a few boxes of transition I've always sent them to the uboat.  Just as easy for dbo to handle but large transactions we've palletized in part because it's pre-tied. My understanding is if it's pre-tied once it ties sfq will update based on pog stated capacity.  How is this being handled and is the thought being to bring back pog team?


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 25, 2020)

Logo said:


> So when it's a few boxes of transition I've always sent them to the uboat.  Just as easy for dbo to handle but large transactions we've palletized in part because it's pre-tied. My understanding is if it's pre-tied once it ties sfq will update based on pog stated capacity.  How is this being handled and is the thought being to bring back pog team?


I think what he’s getting at - is the key is to set transitions early so that when freight rolls in, the team can push it straight to the floor


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## Logo (Oct 25, 2020)

I'm a firm believer in setting early (work smarter not harder)  but there are times in which we can't. Take H&H as an example.  I haven't seen many pc that would allow us to set early.  Having p2 starting earlier would be a dream! 4am double and p2 is scheduled at 9!  Doesn't make much sense to me. I am also a believer that pallets are not your friends! Lol


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## allnew2 (Oct 25, 2020)

Logo said:


> So when it's a few boxes of transition I've always sent them to the uboat.  Just as easy for dbo to handle but large transactions we've palletized in part because it's pre-tied. My understanding is if it's pre-tied once it ties sfq will update based on pog stated capacity.  How is this being handled and is the thought being to bring back pog team?


Everyone got  hit with h&h transition , even if it’s not set but pre-tie best practice is to backstock . You can’t forget about flex fill. Having pallets in the eyes will create loss in marching when opu inf,, other guest will continue to order from that pallet . If you have it backstock when you set is the job of who sets it to pull and stock. H&h transition is not under plano workload is under tm therefore the to, dbo and the Vmg should Olán and figure that out.


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## allnew2 (Oct 25, 2020)

TheQuietStorm said:


> I think what he’s getting at - is the key is to set transitions early so that when freight rolls in, the team can push it straight to the floor


Everyone just assumes I’m a he 😉


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## TargetsDaddy (Oct 25, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Everyone just assumes I’m a he 😉



 I've never ever seen a female TL/ETL in charge of receiving or backroom here in my 13 years working at Target. Good on you.


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## allnew2 (Oct 25, 2020)

TargetsDaddy said:


> I've never ever seen a female TL/ETL in charge of receiving or backroom here in my 13 years working at Target. Good on you.


Wasn’t easy . I’ve always been the only female off-site leader, than Backroom , then inbound and now Etl log. I love my job I love a challenge 😎 . And thank you


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## Hardlinesmaster (Oct 25, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Wasn’t easy . I’ve always been the only female off-site leader, than Backroom , then inbound and now Etl log. I love my job I love a challenge 😎 . And thank you


My store has a female etl log. She is awesome.


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## allnew2 (Oct 25, 2020)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> My store has a female etl log. She is awesome.


Hell yeah


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## MrT (Oct 25, 2020)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> My store has a female etl log. She is awesome.


Same


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## SigningLady (Oct 25, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Wasn’t easy . I’ve always been the only female off-site leader, than Backroom , then inbound and now Etl log. I love my job I love a challenge 😎 . And thank you



Most of my ETL-logs over the years have been female. And the male ones never really embraced the logistics part of their title, though my current one is trying.... sometimes. It takes a lot of understanding of how all the cogs work together to pull off an efficient process. Not everyone has the mind to execute it. And you definitely do!!


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## allnew2 (Oct 25, 2020)

SigningLady said:


> Most of my ETL-logs over the years have been female. And the male ones never really embraced the logistics part of their title, though my current one is trying.... sometimes. It takes a lot of understanding of how all the cogs work together to pull off an efficient process. Not everyone has the mind to execute it. And you definitely do!!


Thank you. However I wouldn’t be where I am without my team, my team has been great and over the past few months they have been resilient and adaptable and at the same time came up with great ideas themselves. And then there is my SD who really is not telling me what to do instead is expecting me to know what he wants which thus far I’ve been able to “read “ his mind as he says. He is not trying to make me be the best but be better and i appreciate someone who believes in me enough to not question my decisions.


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## jenna (Oct 25, 2020)

TargetsDaddy said:


> I've never ever seen a female TL/ETL in charge of receiving or backroom here in my 13 years working at Target. Good on you.



I've seen plenty of both males and females in charge of the BR or Logistics or Inbound.... so many I have forgotten most of their names!

/revolving door

I can remember faces, though.


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## SigningLady (Oct 25, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Thank you. However I wouldn’t be where I am without my team, my team has been great and over the past few months they have been resilient and adaptable and at the same time came up with great ideas themselves. And then there is my SD who really is not telling me what to do instead is expecting me to know what he wants which thus far I’ve been able to “read “ his mind as he says. He is not trying to make me be the best but be better and i appreciate someone who believes in me enough to not question my decisions.



Oh, I totally agree the team you have also makes all the difference! They have to be adaptable and willing to adjust/trust the process. I tend to be a questioner....but only because I want to know the 'whys'. Great leaders are the ones who do instead of saying "because I said so."


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## allnew2 (Oct 25, 2020)

SigningLady said:


> Oh, I totally agree the team you have also makes all the difference! They have to be adaptable and willing to adjust/trust the process. I tend to be a questioner....but only because I want to know the 'whys'. Great leaders are the ones who do instead of saying "because I said so."


If you don’t know the whys , you won’t be able to understand it.  Not everything that I have done was something that I like, however when the whys were explained to me I was like ohh yeah makes sense , or I’m not sure is gonna work but will give it a shot.


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## Logo (Oct 26, 2020)

@allnew2  how are you handling the want of limited items in the backroom?  "Ladderless" backroom.  It feels like each district is doing it's own thing.  One minute it's a priority to get everything out flex! Flex! Flex! And the next it's stop flexing.  Yes if we set ahead it's not much of an issue but price change schedule doesn't always allow for that to happen.  I just want to be ready with a plan when this shoe gets dropped in my area! ol


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## Logo (Oct 26, 2020)

Are they really DBOs if you're using them to push whatever is bulk or heavy on the Greenfield report?  Aren't they just pushers at this point?  Similar to old school days only on uboats not pallets.


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## allnew2 (Oct 26, 2020)

Logo said:


> @allnew2  how are you handling the want of limited items in the backroom?  "Ladderless" backroom.  It feels like each district is doing it's own thing.  One minute it's a priority to get everything out flex! Flex! Flex! And the next it's stop flexing.  Yes if we set ahead it's not much of an issue but price change schedule doesn't always allow for that to happen.  I just want to be ready with a plan when this shoe gets dropped in my area! ol


Well it’s hard for you because you don’t have an off-site . That’s how I deal with my excess freight .


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## allnew2 (Oct 26, 2020)

Logo said:


> Are they really DBOs if you're using them to push whatever is bulk or heavy on the Greenfield report?  Aren't they just pushers at this point?  Similar to old school days only on uboats not pallets.


I’m not using the dbos . I’m using inbound Yo push the bulk heavy workload as well as my one p2 pusher that is an inbound tm scheduled just to push p2. Dbos are doing their routines


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## Bosch (Oct 26, 2020)

TargetsDaddy said:


> I've never ever seen a female TL/ETL in charge of receiving or backroom here in my 13 years working at Target. Good on you.



Well come to my store the backroom/receiving is run by all women.. ETL down to the back up receiver. We kick ass.


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## Dead and Khaki (Oct 26, 2020)

So "Amazon Target" is a thing.


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## Unleashed Dog (Oct 26, 2020)

You mentioned you guys set early. How early do you set your transitions? I’m getting push back on it only supposed to be two weeks in advance.


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## Leonhart621 (Oct 27, 2020)

1hr unload?! I got a thrower, 3 P1, 2 A&A, and myself covering P2. It takes at least 2-3hrs because A&A is ridiculous and I have to keep two TMs sorting while unloading


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## MrT (Oct 27, 2020)

Maybe i missed where she said 1 hour unload but she has mentioned that they get they get both trucks, or triples, done within the 4.5 hours of the unload shifts.  But with the line being set up and doing both trucks back to back im assuming with a quick 15 in the middle of the 2 thats still 2 hours per truck.  Even seen her mention doing multiple trucks at once.  Thats not a possibility in my store but you shouldnt be taking more then 2 hours with a fully staffed inbound team.  Also a+a shouldnt be taking up your time as you should just sending them down the line and taken off to have them sort it out, mayne your team doesnt have enough space allocated?  We had that problem at the start.
We have the same amount of people on the line but you should also have a person running the bulk pallets of the truck during unload, and my bath tm pushes the excess beds/bath on the p2 side as well as the domestics repacks during unload which really helps prevent clutter during unload.


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## allnew2 (Oct 27, 2020)

I do 2 trucks in 3 hours now . But I’m doing it at the same time 2 throwers  5 on the line.


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## jenna (Oct 27, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I do 2 trucks in 3 hours now . But I’m doing it at the same time 2 throwers  5 on the line.


Our backroom isn't big enough for an unload of two trucks at the same time.  We can barely hold one truck's worth of freight.


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## MrT (Oct 27, 2020)

To be fair they are working the truck as they unload, my backroom could only do this if we did it overnight because we only have 3 bays on our dock and one is always occupied by ups, so we would need to have one cleared for vendors before they get arrive.


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## allnew2 (Oct 27, 2020)

MrT said:


> To be fair they are working the truck as they unload, my backroom could only do this if we did it overnight because we only have 3 bays on our dock and one is always occupied by ups, so we would need to have one cleared for vendors before they get arrive.


I wish I was overnight . But nooooo every time I even bring it up I’m being looked at like I’m either crazy or just speak a different language 😂


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## TheQuietStorm (Oct 28, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I wish I was overnight . But nooooo every time I even bring it up I’m being looked at like I’m either crazy or just speak a different language 😂


My whole district and most of the group went overnight.


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## MrT (Oct 28, 2020)

TheQuietStorm said:


> My whole district and most of the group went overnight.


Yeah my district was a mandatory overnight


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## JohnSith373 (Oct 29, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I do 2 trucks in 3 hours now . But I’m doing it at the same time 2 throwers  5 on the line.





allnew2 said:


> I wish I was overnight . But nooooo every time I even bring it up I’m being looked at like I’m either crazy or just speak a different language 😂


Two trucks being unloaded at the same time?
You have 4 docks to handle triples or 3 docks? One dock for vendor/pFresh.
Nearly whole district went overnight. Only exception was if the store didn’t have enough payroll aka my store.


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## allnew2 (Oct 29, 2020)

JohnSith373 said:


> Two trucks being unloaded at the same time?
> You have 4 docks to handle triples or 3 docks? One dock for vendor/pFresh.
> Nearly whole district went overnight. Only exception was if the store didn’t have enough payroll aka my store.


Yes 2 at once . Yes 4 docks. And finally I was able to get everyone on board for inbound to go overnight . Also getting an other team for overnight  to do returns, zone , pulls and backstock one for one. P1 and market still comes in at 4 however they work truck only , p2 comes at 8 and do the same thing as p1 and market.


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## JohnSith373 (Oct 29, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Yes 2 at once . Yes 4 docks. And finally I was able to get everyone on board for inbound to go overnight . Also getting an other team for overnight  to do returns, zone , pulls and backstock one for one. P1 and market still comes in at 4 however they work truck only , p2 comes at 8 and do the same thing as p1 and market.


Midnight unload? 
How do you manage unload double trucks at the same time? It seems you make anything thats impossible, possible.


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## allnew2 (Oct 29, 2020)

JohnSith373 said:


> Midnight unload?
> How do you manage unload double trucks at the same time? It seems you make anything thats impossible, possible.


Two throwers , and the 5 on the line. I do have enough skates , as well as my skates are electric. Yes midnight unload. Not to give to much away.
P.s Im the type a person that if someone says I can’t do it , I’ll prove that I can😎


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## Unleashed Dog (Oct 30, 2020)

Wow. That’s amazing. You’re kinda motivating me to actually go forward and take over inbound at my store... The thought of finding ways to make it more efficient sounds interesting. And I did enjoy starting out on an inbound team.


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## No I in Team (Oct 31, 2020)

Congratulations, I think?

Let's look inside the numbers of what appears to be a good idea.

You went from roughly 4.5 (15 min break, you still have to account for the time) hours for two trucks to 3 hours.

Your throwers went from 2.25 hours/truck to 3 hours/truck to unload. A .75 hr increase per truck.

If you use 2000 pcs./truck, your throwers are off loading at the following rates:

4.5 hours:

Thrower A/B: 135 min (2.25 hours)/each at 14.82 boxes/min each.

3 hours:

Thrower A/B: 180 min (3 hours)/each at 11.11 boxes/each.

Net loss of 3.7 boxes per thrower.

So where did the 1.5 hour difference come from?

Yes, more math! All things staying the same we'll look inside the numbers.

At 4.5 hours you were sorting at 

5 sorters at roughly 1.48 pcs./minute (2000 pcs/1350 minutes (5 X 270 minutes)).

At 3 hours you were sorting at

5 sorters at roughly 2.22 pcs./minute (2000 pcs/900 minutes (5 X 180 minutes)).

An increase of .74 pcs.

The GOOD is that cut the process time by 1.5 hours.

The BAD is that you unintentionally increased your throwers time on the truck  by 45 minutes without a break. You also increased your sorters workload by one box a minute or by 90 pcs per truck.

None of this seems to bad. But if you look at the weight per box, it takes a toll. Let's use 20,000 lbs/truck. That equates to about 10lbs/box. 

Your sorters just picked up another 900 lbs./truck. 

The throwers went from 74 lbs./min per truck to 111 lbs/min per truck.

Remember theses are averages so there is a variance. But most likely not enough to make that much a difference either way.

Queueing is your problem between the the activities.

I hate to say it, but you will end up running off your crew. Fatigue will set in unless you increase your crew size substantially. That's where the engineers come in.

Some times you can come up with something that works well or appears to short term. But sustaining it is a whole other ball game when you look inside the numbers.


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## MrT (Oct 31, 2020)

No I in Team said:


> Congratulations, I think?
> 
> Let's look inside the numbers of what appears to be a good idea.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the math but how does that increase the amount weight a person does, the trucks physical size arent changing, and how does the amount of weight per hour a truck thrower go up per hour when you are saying its taking longer for them to do each truck, just getting it done quicker since they are done simultaneously. Logically that just doesnt make sense. Also the average weight per box you are giving are drastically higher then i believe is the actual average weight, the amount of pallets, particularly the water pallets vastly change the weight of the trailer.


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## No I in Team (Oct 31, 2020)

MrT said:


> Appreciate the math but how does that increase the amount weight a person does, the trucks physical size arent changing, and how does the amount of weight per hour a truck thrower go up per hour when you are saying its taking longer for them to do each truck, just getting it done quicker since they are done simultaneously. Logically that just doesnt make sense. Also the average weight per box you are giving are drastically higher then i believe is the actual average weight, the amount of pallets, particularly the water pallets vastly change the weight of the trailer.



You have the overall process which was reduced by 1.5 hours.

Then you have the parts; truck unload, primary sort, and to the floor.

Nothing was changed physically regarding the inbound freight.

Nothing was changed in material handling of said freight.

The only change was the incorporation of the two trucks into one sort in less time. So in this case, everyone's amount of weight to pickup increased per minute by the reduction of time to perform the process.

The sorters workload went from 4.5 hrs down to 3 hrs. This in turn increased their work load per hour. So instead of unloading 40,000 lbs of freight in 4.5 hrs or 148.15 lbs per minute , you're now unloading 40,000 lbs in 3 hrs or 222.22 lbs per minute PER process.

As in the throwers case it in creased PER truck as you lost the rotation of another thrower.

If I were to include things like water pallets and such, the trailer weight would have been around 25,000 lbs plus. I am unloader and have been watching the numbers for quite a while.

When you add in the variables like pallets, spills, and load condition, it can drastically change the workload if you stay within the times listed above.


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## MrT (Oct 31, 2020)

I see where you are coming from. The thing is its 2 throwers simultaneously, so instead of each one doing a truck in 2 hours they now get 3 hours so thats less work per hour.  I also see where that increases workload on the sorters, but unless im misunderstanding the process she has 1 additional sorter then before to keep up with the increased pace.  Im not doing the math but that would decrease the amount of workload per person per hour.  The only thing that stays true is that each person has to wait an additional 45 minutes before break.  I also just mentioned the water pallets just to say that they are not sorting all 20000 pounds of a trailer and that trailer weight varies so much it doesnt seem fair to go off of weight rather then cases or units, but either calculations have flaws.


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## allnew2 (Oct 31, 2020)

No I in Team said:


> You have the overall process which was reduced by 1.5 hours.
> 
> Then you have the parts; truck unload, primary sort, and to the floor.
> 
> ...


I respect everything you said. However this is something that I decided along  with the team. They been doing this for years and even tho this my seems hard for some , for them is really all about let’s finish this 2 At once so we can move on to the 3rd. All my unloaders never want to be rotated. They all know who does which truck . And the bulk always gets build inside the truck and any Pipo pallets I support with.


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## allnew2 (Oct 31, 2020)

MrT said:


> 45 minutes before break.


I tried to send them to break at their regula time and all I get is no let’s  just finish it first. So I go with what they want . My team doesn’t want to take a break when they are a block or half of block from finishing . They rather come back and support with push then be back on the line and to be honest so do I .


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## No I in Team (Nov 1, 2020)

MrT said:


> I see where you are coming from. The thing is its 2 throwers simultaneously, so instead of each one doing a truck in 2 hours they now get 3 hours so thats less work per hour.  I also see where that increases workload on the sorters, but unless im misunderstanding the process she has 1 additional sorter then before to keep up with the increased pace.  Im not doing the math but that would decrease the amount of workload per person per hour.  The only thing that stays true is that each person has to wait an additional 45 minutes before break.  I also just mentioned the water pallets just to say that they are not sorting all 20000 pounds of a trailer and that trailer weight varies so much it doesnt seem fair to go off of weight rather then cases or units, but either calculations have flaws.



Your struggling with the Law of Diminishing Returns. It's finding that point at which a combination of inputs maximizes the output to the point if you add one more input you start losing the advantage gained.

Calculation for the throwers is per truck with two rotating. Remember, you go from two to one thrower per truck. 

The rotation method has one thrower spending 1.0625 hours per truck (less 15 min break). With a total time spend on two trucks at 2.125 hrs per thrower.

If I'm not mistaken she was using five (5) originally, just that one was also a rotating thrower who now unloads a single truck.

You roughly decreased the inbound time about 30% by increasing labor by roughly 16%. 

Two questions; was the marginal increase in labor offset by the cost savings and if it was a true cost savings, could you gain even more by adding even more labor? 

Burden/work would have also increased per person given that nothing else would be introduce to increase efficiency per worker. You would have nullified any relief by reducing the time from 4.5 (4.25) to 3 hours.

20,000 lbs was the amount I calculated less the burden of pallets and bulk freight including water. I did this over 4 trucks. Each truck was in excess of 2000 pcs and weighed over 25,000 lbs ea. surprisingly it was fairly close calculation.

These are averages for a reason. I would say that Target, like most transportation companies scale their trailer after loaded given what our freight consist of. It would be impractical to try using actual weight of each carton given all the irregularities. You would require a more controlled environment and even then averages would be used.

Heavy items such as water pallets, get a little different treatment regarding the number loaded per trailer. Ours is a cubing (volume) issue.


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## No I in Team (Nov 1, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I respect everything you said. However this is something that I decided along  with the team. They been doing this for years and even tho this my seems hard for some , for them is really all about let’s finish this 2 At once so we can move on to the 3rd. All my unloaders never want to be rotated. They all know who does which truck . And the bulk always gets build inside the truck and any Pipo pallets I support with.



From reading your post, it would appear that your are using "Group Dynamics" to reach an objective point. 

"Group Dynamics" is when you have a number of people who are willing take up certain positions/roles/work within a process to achieve a desired outcome. In other words they not only work well together, but compliment each other in their strengths and weaknesses. The problem is that change within the group quickly leads to the end of such success.

Examples are sports teams, fire fighters, and other crews who by working together not only achieve, but excel amongst their peer groups.

It looks good now, but is not sustainable, nor practical, and could lead to some serious problems down the road when it comes to the inbound process. 

Here's the first litmus test I had to do to see if I was engaging in this practice.

First measure your current process outcome. 

Second, rotate all your team into a different position for one week and measure the outcome. 

Third, repeat until all the team has experienced every work area.

If you have actually improved upon a process, your numbers at the end of each rotation will mirror your original process measurement. If not, you have used "Group Dynamics" to reach a desired outcome.

From what I recall, Target does not have a team member profile requirement for the inbound process. So all team members, unless Target has made specific arrangements for, should be able to perform all inbound task.

"Group Dynamics" is an acceptable practice in certain organizations, but not at Target. We're not compensated in that manner.


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## MrT (Nov 1, 2020)

Im not struggling to understand what you are saying, but you are saying that her teams efforts will not be sustainable.  But that is saying that saying that the team was moving at maximum capacity before the change and that any increase in workload isnt sustainable.  If youve been an unloader for years then i think you know there are plenty of dull moments during unload and it seems her idea her is to just minamize the dull moments to increase efficiency rather then to for her team to be more productive. I like the math, its a great tool.  Even the group dynamics is true to a point.  Spot will not have her team change things up because that would disrupt there workflow and still only prove it works in her store. Spots approach has always been to pilot in stores for proof of concept and then increase sample size buy implementing  into other stores.  It would be foolish to believe spot doesn't look at those numbers but numbers only go so far.  IMO the real bid downfall with modernization is that it gives so little room for error and that everything is so calculated that one mishap can throw off an entire system.
Edit to add: I dont want to hijack this thread anymore, perhaps you are right.  You should keep looking at the numbers, and if you can use it to help improve your store.  I would say instead of just going over numbers and saying that it isn't sustainable or that it might not work with a different crew.  Maybe try and add some suggestions or add to the post rather then just saying congratulations? And saying that it won't work long term.  I use this forum to help increase my knowledge and help myself be a better leader and team member.  And to just see what insight i can get coming to the future of Spot.


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## allnew2 (Nov 1, 2020)

No I in Team said:


> It looks good now, but is not sustainable, nor practical, and could lead to some serious problems down the road when it comes to the inbound process.


Seems like it is sustainable giving the fact that stores has to fallow suit.


No I in Team said:


> Second, rotate all your team into a different position for one week and measure the outcome.


Why are you under the impression that I haven’t done this? My team has been rotated any of them can do whatever area I put them in. My team is made of seasoned tm , tm( inbound process )  who use to wear the store on their backs way before modernization, so this to them only got easier not harder ( and that’s a quote from them) . 
They have been able to accomplish something that came very easy to them, it might seem hard to attain and sustain to others


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## No I in Team (Nov 1, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Seems like it is sustainable giving the fact that stores has to fallow suit.
> 
> Why are you under the impression that I haven’t done this? My team has been rotated any of them can do whatever area I put them in. My team is made of seasoned tm , tm( inbound process )  who use to wear the store on their backs way before modernization, so this to them only got easier not harder ( and that’s a quote from them) .
> They have been able to accomplish something that came very easy to them, it might seem hard to attain and sustain to others



Turnover and the inability to backfill, plain and simple. 

For any change in a process it has to withstand turnover. You are using a seasoned team that is dynamic.

So if you have rotated your team, and your results were the same for each team member in each position (recorded). You should be able to pick 6 random team members out of hat and obtain the same results at the end of one week. With only one parameter, less than two weeks tenure.

As for other stores, I am not buying it. Modernization was treated and discussed in the same manner by a few stores. The results, way too many other stores are struggling with it to this day. This board contains an enormous amounts of failures vs success stories.

Then we have ASANTS. The cancer that Target ignores.

I like the idea you that you worked on continuous improvement. I even took it to my ETL only to get it thrown back at me.

But my experiences with such in my past lives tells me that no one kept stats, nor did they research Target's control documents for rule conflicts, nor did they measure all of the financial aspects of the process in its entirety.

Proof? Did you pull the lastest revision of Target's internal operating procedures to verify that what you implemented did not conflict with any of the prescribed policies? Or did you implement this under the "Best Practices Policy"? 

One of the worst fallacies I've experienced at Target is "they did it so can you" mentalities. Not only do we have ASANTS to deal with, but there is too much variation in store layouts.

I'm not being facetious towards you either. I can't tell you how glad I am to see someone try to streamline this process.

But my observations are from my experience being heavily involved in continuous improvement programs.


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## jenna (Nov 1, 2020)

@allnew2 -- you're fortunate to have such a fantastic team.  We basically have a revolving door.  We have a few key players, but they are scattered within the store.


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## allnew2 (Nov 1, 2020)

jenna said:


> @allnew2 -- you're fortunate to have such a fantastic team.  We basically have a revolving door.  We have a few key players, but they are scattered within the store.


I am very grateful for them . As much as target is changing if it wasn’t for them to adapt and see the whys behind it , I would be posting a horror story.
That is why when someone comes after them I need to remind them that the inbound is what keeps the store together . 
Today was the first overnight shift and they all felt like back at home with just us kicking in . So much got done  😂


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## happygoth (Nov 1, 2020)

No I in Team said:


> From reading your post, it would appear that your are using "Group Dynamics" to reach an objective point.
> 
> "Group Dynamics" is when you have a number of people who are willing take up certain positions/roles/work within a process to achieve a desired outcome. In other words they not only work well together, but compliment each other in their strengths and weaknesses. The problem is that change within the group quickly leads to the end of such success.
> 
> ...


That is interesting stuff!


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## No I in Team (Nov 1, 2020)

MrT said:


> Im not struggling to understand what you are saying, but you are saying that her teams efforts will not be sustainable.  But that is saying that saying that the team was moving at maximum capacity before the change and that any increase in workload isnt sustainable.  If youve been an unloader for years then i think you know there are plenty of dull moments during unload and it seems her idea her is to just minamize the dull moments to increase efficiency rather then to for her team to be more productive. I like the math, its a great tool.  Even the group dynamics is true to a point.  Spot will not have her team change things up because that would disrupt there workflow and still only prove it works in her store. Spots approach has always been to pilot in stores for proof of concept and then increase sample size buy implementing  into other stores.  It would be foolish to believe spot doesn't look at those numbers but numbers only go so far.  IMO the real bid downfall with modernization is that it gives so little room for error and that everything is so calculated that one mishap can throw off an entire system.
> Edit to add: I dont want to hijack this thread anymore, perhaps you are right.  You should keep looking at the numbers, and if you can use it to help improve your store.  I would say instead of just going over numbers and saying that it isn't sustainable or that it might not work with a different crew.  Maybe try and add some suggestions or add to the post rather then just saying congratulations? And saying that it won't work long term.  I use this forum to help increase my knowledge and help myself be a better leader and team member.  And to just see what insight i can get coming to the future of Spot.


Your not hijacking the thread. Your doing what should be done between stores and corporate leadership.

I am looking at this from a perspective of being heavily involved in continuous improvement programs.

I wish I had kept some of the forms for process changes from the places I have worked for in the past. It would better explain where I am coming from on this subject.

Having allnew2 take initiative to change something and bring it to the board just brings so much value to all of us. 

Things work for her for a reason. But the big question is can Target take what she has done and replicate the process and duplicate the results?

I have my doubts due to a similar situation that I helped champion. It wasn't until we ran numbers, researched our internal process control documents, and performed work place ergonomics that it was terminated. We failed in all three aspects.

It looked good and sounded good, but it in reality it could not be sustainable.

Our cost savings per hour where a lot more than what Target's would be under compatible conditions. 

Unlike Target, we had financial stake in the cost savings too.


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## No I in Team (Nov 1, 2020)

happygoth said:


> That is interesting stuff!


It is amazing how much a group like that can do. Litterally move mountains with little to no direction.

They just move like a flock of birds.

I have been lucky to be part of two such groups, one as a laborer and one in a professional setting. 

I never realized at the time just what I was involved with either until after I left. 

That's why I was able to recognize what allnew2 has.


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## SigningLady (Nov 1, 2020)

No I in Team said:


> It is amazing how much a group like that can do. Litterally move mountains with little to no direction.
> 
> They just move like a flock of birds.
> 
> ...



I was part of such a group. Plano. I miss the team we had. Everyone had a role and we worked seamlessly together. Then Modernization happened and most of them quit out of frustration. I shifted roles and use those Plano skills as a DBO now.

I am an outlier. I am one of those people who can be placed in any role and make a success of it and make it look easy. 

You're right, you never know how great a group like that is until it's not a group anymore.


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## PackAndCry (Nov 1, 2020)

SigningLady said:


> I was part of such a group. Plano. I miss the team we had. Everyone had a role and we worked seamlessly together. Then Modernization happened and most of them quit out of frustration. I shifted roles and use those Plano skills as a DBO now.
> 
> I am an outlier. I am one of those people who can be placed in any role and make a success of it and make it look easy.
> 
> You're right, you never know how great a group like that is until it's not a group anymore.


I still think my favorite result of modernization is seeing the same TMs and TLs who _constantly _accused the plano team of being incompetent and slow struggle to do their own plano workload because, oops, it's harder than they thought it would be.


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## Luck (Nov 6, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> Two throwers , and the 5 on the line. I do have enough skates , as well as my skates are electric. Yes midnight unload. Not to give to much away.
> P.s Im the type a person that if someone says I can’t do it , I’ll prove that I can😎


My store used to do simultaneous unloads for doubles too. 
Anyway I am curious, you mentioned leaving PIPO inside the trailer sometimes while unloading. 
Your DC has not implemented a pallet grouping strategy yet? 
I was under the impression it had been rolled out amongst most DCs.


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## allnew2 (Nov 6, 2020)

Luck said:


> My store used to do simultaneous unloads for doubles too.
> Anyway I am curious, you mentioned leaving PIPO inside the trailer sometimes while unloading.
> Your DC has not implemented a pallet grouping strategy yet?
> I was under the impression it had been rolled out amongst most DCs.


There’s trailers that have it right , and some trailers are coming in like they just didn’t know what to do .
If the Pipo is side by side and the dbo is not there to take it I won’t get it out due to the fact that nothing can’t be on the docks or 3rd aisle or 4th aisle at any time.


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## allnew2 (Nov 10, 2020)

Someone please take some


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## vyrt (Nov 10, 2020)

I’ve got 4 doubles and 3 singles next week. My backroom is full. And people just aren’t getting product out quick enough. They flounder with a double and roll bits and pieces every day until the next one. Idk what they’re going to do with us taking doubles every day for at least the next two weeks.

And I’ve totally pitched this idea to them. I just need them to help get it going.


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## allnew2 (Nov 10, 2020)

vyrt said:


> I’ve got 4 doubles and 3 singles next week. My backroom is full. And people just aren’t getting product out quick enough. They flounder with a double and roll bits and pieces every day until the next one. Idk what they’re going to do with us taking doubles every day for at least the next two weeks.
> 
> And I’ve totally pitched this idea to them. I just need them to help get it going.


Yeah that’s gonna be tough if doubles are not your norm. Doubles for my team is an everyday thing all year round so that’s not the problem is all this Black Friday crap that I hate have it come in.


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## Rastaman (Nov 10, 2020)

Wow. That's a lot of freight.  We had 3 doubles in a row last week. I came clean on grocery,  but Trim, Home,  and Softlines rolled every day.  We have a new GM1 and he's pretty shell shocked.


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## allnew2 (Nov 10, 2020)

Rastaman said:


> Wow. That's a lot of freight.  We had 3 doubles in a row last week. I came clean on grocery,  but Trim, Home,  and Softlines rolled every day.  We have a new GM1 and he's pretty shell shocked.


It’s actually normal freight for me . I’m just tired being today is my 10th day. And going in at 12 going home 12-1pm , redbull , coffee and teas can only take me for so long lol.
Food,sea, toys, electronics , sprt and small appliances should be a priority and not roll over.


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## vyrt (Nov 12, 2020)

Oh boy. Get to learn a new inbound process in 2 days. Wonder what it could be.



allnew2 said:


> It’s actually normal freight for me . I’m just tired being today is my 10th day. And going in at 12 going home 12-1pm , redbull , coffee and teas can only take me for so long lol.
> Food,sea, toys, electronics , sprt and small appliances should be a priority and not roll over.


I wish they’d give OT at my store. Down leads cause of leave so I’m like the inbound presentation lead that works at 1am. So I don’t see any of my team because they’re all scheduled at 10.


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## allnew2 (Nov 12, 2020)

vyrt said:


> Oh boy. Get to learn a new inbound process in 2 days. Wonder what it could be.
> 
> 
> I wish they’d give OT at my store. Down leads cause of leave so I’m like the inbound presentation lead that works at 1am. So I don’t see any of my team because they’re all scheduled at 10.


No Ot at my store either


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