# Should I be worried about my shot at a TL role?



## CartoonPenguin (Nov 22, 2021)

Today before our Inbound crew got started on the unload, our GMTL who usually runs the trucks gathered us up in a huddle and told us that he was leaving the company and that his last day was next week on Tuesday. As an aspiring GM team member who's currently in the pipeline for leadership development, this news excited me as it meant that a GMTL role was opening up and this was my shot.

During this huddle, I was honestly expecting the departing GMTL to announce me as the next team member in development who would most likely be taking up his spot, but that didn't happen. He just clarified that he didn't know who exactly was taking up his spot and that it could be either someone currently at the store that we've worked with or someone new to the company.

I was also expecting one of my other leaders to pull me aside and talk with me more about the role opening up and my chances, but that never happened. I was at least hoping for some type of conversation regarding the interview process and being placed on the bench, but it never came. The best thing to happen today was just getting my "Trainer" name badge, but that's it.

I'm legitimately worried that they're going to pass me up for some reason. I would think that the other TL's would want to get with me ASAP and start prepping me if they were serious about me taking up this role, but that hasn't happened. I was hoping that the departing GMTL would make some type of statement about me being his most likely successor, but that didn't happen either. Am I right to be worried? Does this sound concerning to anyone else?


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## Hardlinesmaster (Nov 22, 2021)

Apply for it. Talk to your etl.


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## NightHuntress (Nov 22, 2021)

When the spot is posted you need to apply. Team leads have no power when it comes to their replacements. Sure, management might ask their opinions but they have absolutely no say in who gets picked. 9 times out of 10 job postings and interviews are just for show because they typically already have an idea of who they want in that role. Unless no one is on the bench and they look outside of their store. Also, while it does happen it’s rare to promote someone to leadership of the team they were on. Friendships develop and it can muddy waters when it’s time to hold people accountable and do coachings.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 22, 2021)

targetuser said:


> Also, while it does happen it’s rare to promote someone to leadership of the team they were on. Friendships develop and it can muddy waters when it’s time to hold people accountable and do coachings.


My store must be an outlier in that case. Every TL we have is a former TM of their respective department that they lead.


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## Zxy123456 (Nov 22, 2021)

targetuser said:


> When the spot is posted you need to apply. Team leads have no power when it comes to their replacements. Sure, management might ask their opinions but they have absolutely no say in who gets picked. 9 times out of 10 job postings and interviews are just for show because they typically already have an idea of who they want in that role. Unless no one is on the bench and they look outside of their store. Also, while it does happen it’s rare to promote someone to leadership of the team they were on. Friendships develop and it can muddy waters when it’s time to hold people accountable and do coachings.


Must be a case of ASANTS because at my store is not rare for a team member to become lead of department they are currently in.


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## MrT (Nov 23, 2021)

They would never put it out there even if they know you want it and were even probable to get it with confirming it with you first.  Apply for it when its posted.  Talk with your ETL and let him know your interest.


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## NotCynicalYet (Nov 23, 2021)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Apply for it. Talk to your etl.


That's how I got it. All the speculation about who might be promoted...but I was literally the only person who walked up to my ETL and asked for the job. Even the shoe-in kid already on the bench didn't ask for an interview, and was offered one, but only as a formality.


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## Yetive (Nov 23, 2021)

This.  Go to ETL/SD and tell them that you want the job.


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## Fluttervale (Nov 23, 2021)

They're not serious about you taking the role until they post the position and see who's applied.  You might be a shoe-in, you might be up against some serious competition from other stores, there's no way to know if you don't already know.  I promoted 3 years ago and there were 8+ applicants for the position, including externals.  Three of us got interviews.  You also have to consider that there may be another TL in another role in your store or another that wants to move into the position, and maybe a different role in this store or another will open up instead.

Talk to your ETL, update your resume, and apply for the role if/when it posts.


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 23, 2021)

They may already have someone in training or in mind for the job.  Typically at my store they already have someone in line.  If the TLs last day is Tuesday I assume they gave their 2 weeks notice and the leadership team had time to figure it out.

At my store, if they even posted the job it was typically just a formality.  If this was at my store I'd tell you that someone already has the job and you need to keep working hard to get yourself noticed for the next opening.


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## lucidtm (Nov 23, 2021)

targetuser said:


> When the spot is posted you need to apply. Team leads have no power when it comes to their replacements. Sure, management might ask their opinions but they have absolutely no say in who gets picked. 9 times out of 10 job postings and interviews are just for show because they typically already have an idea of who they want in that role. Unless no one is on the bench and they look outside of their store. Also, while it does happen it’s rare to promote someone to leadership of the team they were on. Friendships develop and it can muddy waters when it’s time to hold people accountable and do coachings.



This is exactly how it is at my store. 

An internal TM is never promoted within their same department. When a job becomes available/is announced at huddle everyone has the chance to apply online. It's up to YOU as the curious party (whether you're in development/"on the bench" or not) to let your ETL, the SD, and HR know that you're interested in it and will be applying. Before your interview they'll usually give you papers with the questions they'll be asking. 

You're likely not the only person in development within that store, so make sure you approach your leaders about your interest ASAP. Like targetuser said above, they likely already know who they want in the role. It may be you, so get with them ASAP so they don't take your silence as disinterest.

To directly answer your question: no, you shouldn't be worried that they didn't formally announce you as the successor directly after your TL announced their departure. I don't even think it's legal (or maybe it's just bad form?) to just give someone a job without posting it and giving everyone (internal and external) the chance to apply. I believe it can be seen as discrimination if it's not publicly posted first.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 23, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> They're not serious about you taking the role until they post the position and see who's applied.  You might be a shoe-in, you might be up against some serious competition from other stores, there's no way to know if you don't already know.  I promoted 3 years ago and there were 8+ applicants for the position, including externals.  Three of us got interviews.  You also have to consider that there may be another TL in another role in your store or another that wants to move into the position, and maybe a different role in this store or another will open up instead.
> 
> Talk to your ETL, update your resume, and apply for the role if/when it posts.


Well the problem is that it hasn’t even been posted. I keep checking Workday and the hiring site and nothing. How exactly am I suppose to apply if they don’t post it? Would my ETL let me know?


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## NightHuntress (Nov 23, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Well the problem is that it hasn’t even been posted. I keep checking Workday and the hiring site and nothing. How exactly am I suppose to apply if they don’t post it? Would my ETL let me know?


If you want it don’t wait around for it to come to you. Ask them. Ask your ETL. Heck, if your relationships good with them ask the HR or SD. Just express your interest. Worst case, you don’t get it but maybe you get feedback on what to improve on and they now know you are interested in a leader position. Best case- you do get it. Good luck


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## Fluttervale (Nov 23, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Well the problem is that it hasn’t even been posted. I keep checking Workday and the hiring site and nothing. How exactly am I suppose to apply if they don’t post it? Would my ETL let me know?


You need to tell your Etl that you are interested next time you see them so they know you’re in the running.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 23, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> You need to tell your Etl that you are interested next time you see them so they know you’re in the running.


But they already know I’m in the running…

I talked with my GMETL about wanting a lead role a few months ago. They have me in the pipeline and I’ve been in development for nearly three months. What more do I have to do to let them know that I’m interested? They already know.


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 23, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> But they already know I’m in the running…
> 
> I talked with my GMETL about wanting a lead role a few months ago. They have me in the pipeline and I’ve been in development for nearly three months. What more do I have to do to let them know that I’m interested? They already know.


Go up and ask if you are in consideration for the job.  Dont assume anything


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## sunnydays (Nov 23, 2021)

conveniently leaving out the part of your story where a month or two back you yelled at your ETL and threw a device on the ground

pro-tip: when you’re going to cross-post your shit from reddit at least change up the post a bit so that it’s not recognizably the exact same person. this has been Posting 101 with sunnydays


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 23, 2021)

sunnydays said:


> conveniently leaving out the part of your story where a month or two back you yelled at your ETL and threw a device on the ground
> 
> pro-tip: when you’re going to cross-post your shit from reddit at least change up the post a bit so that it’s not recognizably the exact same person. this has been Posting 101 with sunnydays


If this is the case, you are not getting promoted.  You are lucky to still have a job honestly.


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## lucidtm (Nov 23, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Well the problem is that it hasn’t even been posted. I keep checking Workday and the hiring site and nothing. How exactly am I suppose to apply if they don’t post it? Would my ETL let me know?



It takes a few days to get up there. IDK the full run of time, but HR posts it. It might even need to be done up, sent to district HR, then they filter it through. Who knows? I know that my store has announced positions, said they'll be online to apply later that night or the next day, then it takes a week for us to actually see it. 

Regardless if they already know you want the role, still approach them and let them know you'll be applying as soon as you see it hit the site and is there anything you can do to prepare for a possible interview.


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## Planosss enraged (Nov 23, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Today before our Inbound crew got started on the unload, our GMTL who usually runs the trucks gathered us up in a huddle and told us that he was leaving the company and that his last day was next week on Tuesday. As an aspiring GM team member who's currently in the pipeline for leadership development, this news excited me as it meant that a GMTL role was opening up and this was my shot.
> 
> During this huddle, I was honestly expecting the departing GMTL to announce me as the next team member in development who would most likely be taking up his spot, but that didn't happen. He just clarified that he didn't know who exactly was taking up his spot and that it could be either someone currently at the store that we've worked with or someone new to the company.
> 
> ...


Are you thinking other TLs are  going to throw you a  like “TL shower”? Your post screams  a hard working naïve TM , not a leader.
You have no idea how these things work. You’re expecting the TL to announce that you were a TM in development? That makes no sense. Like others said apply for the job and interview for it.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 23, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Today before our Inbound crew got started on the unload, our GMTL who usually runs the trucks gathered us up in a huddle and told us that he was leaving the company and that his last day was next week on Tuesday. As an aspiring GM team member who's currently in the pipeline for leadership development, this news excited me as it meant that a GMTL role was opening up and this was my shot.
> 
> During this huddle, I was honestly expecting the departing GMTL to announce me as the next team member in development who would most likely be taking up his spot, but that didn't happen. He just clarified that he didn't know who exactly was taking up his spot and that it could be either someone currently at the store that we've worked with or someone new to the company.
> 
> ...


For crying out loud. The etl and tl have NO control over this. To get promoted you MUST talk to the SD. If they blow you off and delegate you to the tl or etl, they do not find you leadership material. If you’re not already in the bench, the spot isn’t yours.
and keep In mind, there could already be someone on the bench waiting for their spot. They could be in a different store.
The tl can’t make a statement that you’re his successor. The tl has NOTHING to do with the process. You are interviewed by the sd, hr, and then depending on how involved the dsd is, you have to pass an interview with them.


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## NKG (Nov 23, 2021)

If your aren't on the bench or shown interest then you will get left in the dust. Talk to your ETL to say I'm interested.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 23, 2021)

NKG said:


> If your aren't on the bench or shown interest then you will get left in the dust. Talk to your ETL to say I'm interested.


They already know I’m interested. I talk with my ETL back in September about opportunities and I’ve been in development ever since. Is that seriously not good enough?


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## DBZ (Nov 23, 2021)

People can be on the bench for a good year.  Do you have a mentor? Have they given you any special projects?


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 23, 2021)

DBZ said:


> People can be on the bench for a good year.  Do you have a mentor? Have they given you any special projects?


My GM ETL and one of my GMTL's have more or less been serving as mentors to me and I've been given a plethora of projects. I'm the new seasonal DBO and I've been put in charge of all things seasonal, including the backroom purge and condensing. They've also had me running all over the store doing various things in different departments, like building furnitute displays, setting POGS by myself, pushing transition pallets, backroom audits, and a whole bunch of other things.


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## DBZ (Nov 23, 2021)

That all sounds like normal TM stuff. It sounds like they like you a lot and maybe they will consider you, but there maybe others that are more ready. If it doesn't happen now, don't get too discouraged because the opportunity will come again


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 23, 2021)

DBZ said:


> That all sounds like normal TM stuff. It sounds like they like you a lot and maybe they will consider you, but there maybe others that are more ready. If it doesn't happen now, don't get too discouraged because the opportunity will come again


How much more ready do they need me to be? I’ve been with the company for seven years and I’ve spent all of that time working trucks.

Our latest GMTL promotion was to a 19 year old kid back in August. They hadn’t even been working here a full year at the time of their promotion. Hell, I still don’t think they’ve even fully reached a year.

If they can promote some kid with no seniority, then I like my chances.


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## NKG (Nov 23, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> They already know I’m interested. I talk with my ETL back in September about opportunities and I’ve been in development ever since. Is that seriously not good enough?


No you straight up have to be on the bench to be considered


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## sunnydays (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> How much more ready do they need me to be? I’ve been with the company for seven years and I’ve spent all of that time working trucks.
> 
> Our latest GMTL promotion was to a 19 year old kid back in August. They hadn’t even been working here a full year at the time of their promotion. Hell, I still don’t think they’ve even fully reached a year.
> 
> If they can promote some kid with no seniority, then I like my chances.



they need you to be ready to not throw tantrums when you don't get what you want


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## Planosss enraged (Nov 24, 2021)

I apologize, I was speaking strictly from experience and didn’t consider all the mythical possibilities.
Since you had a talk with your ETL back in September AND have built furniture displays, I think you got this man. You have done everything you can. I suspect after black Friday there will be a huddle announced , seemingly normal huddle. Then you’d hear chants of your name by your former GMTL , as they approach the huddle carrying a cake on a flat (pushing and not pulling of course)
GMTL will then announce you as their successor by adorning you with the giant rubber bands and doing the “knight thing”with a pushbroom from the backroom.


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## Fluttervale (Nov 24, 2021)

NKG said:


> No you straight up have to be on the bench to be considered


That’s not true.  I put forward a TM that no one even thought of for a promotion in another store and he got the role and is doing well.  This is within the last three months.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Nov 24, 2021)

The tandrum event may of hurt your chances too. Plus, you have not mentioned any follow up about any tl jobs. 
 Your mgt will put you they think you will succeed as a tl.


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## Inboundbeast (Nov 24, 2021)

I’ve definitely been in your shoes before. This is what i think:

Doing all those TM tasks is not really much in the lines of development. This is a common disconnect from a TM viewpoint I always notice… Just remember, TM’s do tasks, TL’s lead teams. If they’re developing you, they need to be giving you opportunities in running projects that involve teams and helping you create real-world situations that actually mold you as a leader… you need this to get passed the interview stage…

This is not your fault if your leadership is promising “development” and just having you complete the gritty workload of seasonal and all those other tasks.

Again, we know you said you talked to your leadership about developing back in September but you have to communicate to them that you are interested in this position.. Target doesn’t usually do handouts with TL positions- you really gotta want it so just remind them you are interested and ask them what their thoughts are. -If they think you aren’t ready, ask for feedback on why.. If they say you need more leadership experience ask for some opportunities ^^^ (stated above)

1 more thing… Being a TL is not all it cracks up to be… You have to have really tough conversations sometimes and you get held accountable for a group of people rather than only yourself. Just a thought


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## Yetive (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> They already know I’m interested. I talk with my ETL back in September about opportunities and I’ve been in development ever since. Is that seriously not good enough?


Everyone knows I'm interested in winning the lottery, but I still have to buy a ticket. 

September was a long time ago in Q4 years.  If you are reluctant to speak with leaders in your store about this NOW, I'm not sure what to say. My store hasn't posted a leader position in years. For all you know, 10 people are working on their development and the 2 who spoke up are the ones who will get the interviews. TODAY, speak with SD, HR, and whomever is developing you.  "Hey, with Edna leaving I would like to be considered for that TL position.  Is there anything particular I need to do?". Start there, and if you are not ready, get a plan for the next time.


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## DBZ (Nov 24, 2021)

It's almost like people here are speaking from experience. I've got 6 months on the bench. When a position opened up, I asked my ETL if I could apply. Even though I had told her many times, I wanted to have more responsibilities, what I could do to be better, etc she was shocked that I was serious enough to apply. Several people in the store also applied. As far as I know, I was the only one given an interview. What have you done to lead your team? I've only started working in GM a couple months ago. I've been up front until then.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 24, 2021)

Yetive said:


> Everyone knows I'm interested in winning the lottery, but I still have to buy a ticket.
> 
> September was a long time ago in Q4 years.  If you are reluctant to speak with leaders in your store about this NOW, I'm not sure what to say. My store hasn't posted a leader position in years. For all you know, 10 people are working on their development and the 2 who spoke up are the ones who will get the interviews. TODAY, speak with SD, HR, and whomever is developing you.  "Hey, with Edna leaving I would like to be considered for that TL position.  Is there anything particular I need to do?". Start there, and if you are not ready, get a plan for the next time.


Again, I don’t see what I need to do to be more ready.

The previously mentioned 19 year old child was doing the same things as me in terms of developmental tasks and they never really did anything outstanding in terms of leading GM.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 24, 2021)

Inboundbeast said:


> I’ve definitely been in your shoes before. This is what i think:
> 
> Doing all those TM tasks is not really much in the lines of development. This is a common disconnect from a TM viewpoint I always notice… Just remember, TM’s do tasks, TL’s lead teams. If they’re developing you, they need to be giving you opportunities in running projects that involve teams and helping you create real-world situations that actually mold you as a leader… you need this to get passed the interview stage…
> 
> ...


I’m not cracking it up to be some amazing job that’s going to change my life. I know all about the tough calls, accountability, and babysitting that goes into it. I think it’s just time that an actual Target veteran steps up and takes charge with some of the issues on the sales floor.

My store has a massive issue with TM’s who refuse to offer any type of backup or support to other parts of the store. They all just stay in their little areas, but they can’t be bothered to back up cashier, help with OPU’s, or even just log into the phones on the Zebra. That’s a serious problem that’s been enabled for far too long at my store and it’s at the top of the list in terms of changes that I’m going to make happen.


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## Zxy123456 (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> How much more ready do they need me to be? I’ve been with the company for seven years and I’ve spent all of that time working trucks.
> 
> Our latest GMTL promotion was to a 19 year old kid back in August. They hadn’t even been working here a full year at the time of their promotion. Hell, I still don’t think they’ve even fully reached a year.
> 
> If they can promote some kid with no seniority, then I like my chances.


Not trying to be rude or mean just honest, if you’ve been with Target for 7 years and haven’t promoted yet then you may never promote. You will never know unless you straight up ask your EtL.


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## MrT (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I’m not cracking it up to be some amazing job that’s going to change my life. I know all about the tough calls, accountability, and babysitting that goes into it. I think it’s just time that an actual Target veteran steps up and takes charge with some of the issues on the sales floor.
> 
> My store has a massive issue with TM’s who refuse to offer any type of backup or support to other parts of the store. They all just stay in their little areas, but they can’t be bothered to back up cashier, help with OPU’s, or even just log into the phones on the Zebra. That’s a serious problem that’s been enabled for far too long at my store and it’s at the top of the list in terms of changes that I’m going to make happen.


You are doing a lot of stuff that a great tm does, but it is not exactly leadership duties.  Back up, help OPU, answer the phones and call out your other tms.  Be respectful but assertive prove that you are able to have those tough conversations.  Do that and keep on having conversations with your leadership team.  Everyone is very busy rn so it might be harder to get proper leadership mentoring.  It is also a possibility that your store will not fill that position until well after the holidays.  We are down a F+B TL rn amd are not expecting to have one until february.  So probably be posted early January.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 24, 2021)

MrT said:


> It is also a possibility that your store will not fill that position until well after the holidays


You're joking...


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## MrT (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> You're joking...


No lol


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> You're joking...


I've developed and mentored many TM that got promoted to TL.  Things I always did with them was put them in situations to be in charge when I wasn't in the store and get feedback from leadership in the store.  I also would sit them down and go over interview questions and help them build stories for their interview and when it was a thing help them figure out their wins and oops.

If you think you are being aggressive about pursuing this, you need to step it up 10x.  The fact that you haven't once spoken to your SD about it is concerning.  Their opinion means more than anyone's and some time next week you need to ask to sit down with them and talk about your desire to get promoted.  Ask questions and be ready for hard truth.  Ask what they would like to see from you in regards to development as a leader.  

To me it sounds as if your GMTL and ETL are just using the promotion as a carrot to get you to do all types of work.  You need to excell and take initiative in all the situations you are put it and go above and beyond.  They tell you to do 2 sections of purge from the backroom, you do 4.  And always check in at the end of your shift and ask how you did and what you could have done different to improve for next time.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 24, 2021)

MrT said:


> No lol


What sense does that make? If it’s the Holidays, they need as many leaders as possible.


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## MrT (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> What sense does that make? If it’s the Holidays, they need as many leaders as possible.


Its hard to get proper training as every store is extremely busy.


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## NightHuntress (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> What sense does that make? If it’s the Holidays, they need as many leaders as possible.


Look at the timing. Nearing the end of November now. If they’re going to do the whole dog and pony show it’s gonna take a couple weeks for them to go through interviews and formally announce somebody and then even if they promote from within the store sometimes they want to send the person out for training or so they can get a different perspective from a another store. That can be anywhere from a couple days of training to a couple of weeks depending on what they feel like that person needs to learn. By the time you go through all that we’re getting out of Christmas and headed in to the clean up part of the season. Considering this time of year is so stressful and there’s so much to do most people don’t have time to train someone so if they can do without it makes more sense for them to wait till after the beginning of the year


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 24, 2021)

targetuser said:


> Look at the timing. Nearing the end of November now. If they’re going to do the whole dog and pony show it’s gonna take a couple weeks for them to go through interviews and formally announce somebody and then even if they promote from within the store sometimes they want to send the person out for training or so they can get a different perspective from a another store. That can be anywhere from a couple days of training to a couple of weeks depending on what they feel like that person needs to learn. By the time you go through all that we’re getting out of Christmas and headed in to the clean up part of the season. Considering this time of year is so stressful and there’s so much to do most people don’t have time to train someone so if they can do without it makes more sense for them to wait till after the beginning of the year


This....

Also if you are as important to the store as you say and you are the seasonal DBO I'm sure they want to keep you until after Xmas is over.


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## Planosss enraged (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Again, I don’t see what I need to do to be more ready.
> 
> The previously mentioned 19 year old child was doing the same things as me in terms of developmental tasks and they never really did anything outstanding in terms of leading GM.


You got this fam!


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## Yetive (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Again, I don’t see what I need to do to be more ready.


You need to ask so that you can see.  

In the end, it doesn't matter if you see what more you need to do, it matters what your SD thinks you need to do.  Seriously not trying to be a jerk here, but you need to advocate for yourself.  Often.  Don't do more work, do higher scope work. Don't compare yourself to the 19 year old child (hard no from me if I heard you talking about a peer like that BTW).


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## happygoth (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I’m not cracking it up to be some amazing job that’s going to change my life. I know all about the tough calls, accountability, and babysitting that goes into it. I think it’s just time that an actual Target veteran steps up and takes charge with some of the issues on the sales floor.
> 
> My store has a massive issue with TM’s who refuse to offer any type of backup or support to other parts of the store. They all just stay in their little areas, but they can’t be bothered to back up cashier, help with OPU’s, or even just log into the phones on the Zebra. That’s a serious problem that’s been enabled for far too long at my store and it’s at the top of the list in terms of changes that I’m going to make happen.


Umm...yeah I would tread lightly there. Are these TMs that would be directly under you in terms of leadership? Because I can tell you right now that popping over to another work center and telling someone else's TMs that they need to do this or that usually goes over like a lead balloon. If no other leader in your store including the SD makes an issue of this, then it's not an issue. If you don't have their support, you won't win. Even if you do, they may be using you as the "bad cop" so they don't have to deal with it.

Also, in my decades of retail experience, a regular TM trying to do more than give general guidance to other TMs rarely goes well. And that usually only works with newbs.


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## Coqui (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Again, I don’t see what I need to do to be more ready.
> 
> The previously mentioned 19 year old child was doing the same things as me in terms of developmental tasks and they never really did anything outstanding in terms of leading GM.


Everyone is giving you sound advice. You need to ask and let them know now that you are interested. A lot has happened these past few weeks, months, and year. The business has constantly been changing due to the economy, political climate etc so priorities aren’t where they traditionally tend to be right now. If you want this position, your best move is to go to your ETL/SD and let them know. Forget about all the previous decisions they made with leadership moves. It’s none of your business why they promoted certain people. Focus on you and go into the conversation calmly. A simple “Hi SD, I’d like to talk about the GMTL role, I’m very interested.” That’ll open up the conversation to either be “yes you are ready”, or “here is what you need before you can get there.”


----------



## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> My GM ETL and one of my GMTL's have more or less been serving as mentors to me and I've been given a plethora of projects. I'm the new seasonal DBO and I've been put in charge of all things seasonal, including the backroom purge and condensing. They've also had me running all over the store doing various things in different departments, like building furnitute displays, setting POGS by myself, pushing transition pallets, backroom audits, and a whole bunch of other things.


That’s just the beginning of your development. They aren’t going to promote you until they task you with leading others and you succeed at it. You aren’t ready. It’s been 2 months. It could take a year to get you ready for interviews. Be patient.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> My GM ETL and one of my GMTL's have more or less been serving as mentors to me and I've been given a plethora of projects. I'm the new seasonal DBO and I've been put in charge of all things seasonal, including the backroom purge and condensing. They've also had me running all over the store doing various things in different departments, like building furnitute displays, setting POGS by myself, pushing transition pallets, backroom audits, and a whole bunch of other things.


What you’re doing IS the job description of a dbo. You aren’t doing anything next level to prepare you for promotion.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> You're joking...


No


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Again, I don’t see what I need to do to be more ready.
> 
> The previously mentioned 19 year old child was doing the same things as me in terms of developmental tasks and they never really did anything outstanding in terms of leading GM.


You’re not doing developmental tasks. You’re doing dbo work.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 24, 2021)

Ashfromoldsite said:


> That’s just the beginning of your development. They aren’t going to promote you until they task you with leading others and you succeed at it. You aren’t ready. It’s been 2 months. It could take a year to get you ready for interviews. Be patient.


2 months is roughly the same amount of time that the previously mentioned 19 year old child was in development before she was promoted. I know this because she told me this herself.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> 2 months is roughly the same amount of time that the previously mentioned 19 year old child was in development before she was promoted. I know this because she told me this herself.


So????  You’re not the same person with the same experiences, skills, personality, etc etc. 
if you truly want to promote quickly you NEED supervisory experience. You need to take initiative and ask the SD for opportunities to lead. That may mean moving to nights to supervise the closers. It may mean running a team in a transition. 
it doesn’t matter what the other gal did. It’s about what you’re doing. And doing dbo tasks isn’t proving you’re ready for tl.


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## DBZ (Nov 24, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I’m not cracking it up to be some amazing job that’s going to change my life. I know all about the tough calls, accountability, and babysitting that goes into it. I think it’s just time that an actual Target veteran steps up and takes charge with some of the issues on the sales floor.
> 
> My store has a massive issue with TM’s who refuse to offer any type of backup or support to other parts of the store. They all just stay in their little areas, but they can’t be bothered to back up cashier, help with OPU’s, or even just log into the phones on the Zebra. That’s a serious problem that’s been enabled for far too long at my store and it’s at the top of the list in terms of changes that I’m going to make happen.



Ok how would you do it? It's great when your peers will listen to you. Many just won't. If you have an idea on how to get them to help, then it might be best to present it to your TL. Sometimes peer coaching can backfire and get you labeled as an asshole.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 25, 2021)

Ashfromoldsite said:


> So????  You’re not the same person with the same experiences, skills, personality, etc etc.
> if you truly want to promote quickly you NEED supervisory experience. You need to take initiative and ask the SD for opportunities to lead. That may mean moving to nights to supervise the closers. It may mean running a team in a transition.
> it doesn’t matter what the other gal did. It’s about what you’re doing. And doing dbo tasks isn’t proving you’re ready for tl.


But the 19 year old didn’t do any of that leading stuff. Again, she told me herself that she basically just got her workload increased like mine is now and that was that.

So either my store just has a really different way of developing TMs or there’s something fishy going on with the 19 year old’s promotion.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 25, 2021)

DBZ said:


> That’s just the beginning of your development. They aren’t going to promote you until they task you with leading others and you succeed at it. You aren’t ready. It’s been 2 months. It could take a year to get you ready for interviews. Be patient.


I think it’s now clear that we’re dealing with a pretty blatant case of ASANTS here.

My store has never really valued TL’s as people who are actually good at leading a group of people. They just value TL’s as someone who’s willing to just blindly do what they’re told and occasionally get on the walkie to ask their subordinates to back up cashier.

I can confidently say that some of my TL’s have horrible attitudes/work ethic and don’t do any leading of any sorts. Our Market TL is just a bitter old racist who spends most of his time outside smoking, our Style leader is constantly lashing out at her TM’s because of her failing marriage, and like I’ve already established, one of our newer GM leaders is just a kid.


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## Coqui (Nov 25, 2021)

Based on your responses and you not taking the feedback that everyone here is giving you, I wouldn’t promote you either. You want to become a TL but speak badly about potential peers which may or may not be true. Huge red flag.


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## Inboundbeast (Nov 25, 2021)

@CartoonPenguin Honestly, you ASKED for advice here and you were given all the correct advice and yet you are still being defensive and challenging all the information you’re given.. You’re also worried about why someone who happens to be 19 years old got promoted- age and title do NOT coincide.. You also are belitting the rest of your leadership team.. No team leader would want you as a peer if that’s the case.

^^^ if the story on you throwing the mydevice is true then don’t expect shit respectfully because there are individuals more respectful than that that are way more capable of leading teams😂
Goodbye


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 25, 2021)

Inboundbeast said:


> You also are belitting the rest of your leadership team..


I’m not belittling them, I’m just stating facts.

The market leader once used a slur against one of our Indian TMs. The style leader threw her walkie at one of the Style TMs. 19 years old is still just a kid.


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## truckdemon (Nov 25, 2021)

The biggest thing is you need to show them that you are mature and responsible enough to be in a management position. You can't compare yourself to your peers and ask yourself, "why did this person get promoted even though they're 19 and haven't been here that long" you don't know what experience they may have. It might seem unfair but sometimes things don't fall into your lap that easily. If you really want this role, you need to build a good relationship with the higher ups, be vocal but not pushy, go above and beyond and always take the initiative. Throwing a tantrum because you didn't get something you felt you deserve will make them think you are not mature enough to handle a team lead role. Being a team lead comes with a lot of responsibility and workload and they need to make sure you will be able to handle it and maintain a professional and good relationship with your team. Be patient and continue doing your job while being vocal about your interest.


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## truckdemon (Nov 25, 2021)

Also I was 19 when I got promoted with zero supervisory experience and I've gotten DEO's on all of my reviews. Just because you're young doesn't mean you can't be in management.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 25, 2021)

truckdemon said:


> Also I was 19 when I got promoted with zero supervisory experience and I've gotten DEO's on all of my reviews. Just because you're young doesn't mean you can't be in management.


19 years old is still just a kid. You’re not convincing me otherwise.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 25, 2021)

truckdemon said:


> The biggest thing is you need to show them that you are mature and responsible enough to be in a management position. You can't compare yourself to your peers and ask yourself, "why did this person get promoted even though they're 19 and haven't been here that long" you don't know what experience they may have. It might seem unfair but sometimes things don't fall into your lap that easily. If you really want this role, you need to build a good relationship with the higher ups, be vocal but not pushy, go above and beyond and always take the initiative. Throwing a tantrum because you didn't get something you felt you deserve will make them think you are not mature enough to handle a team lead role. Being a team lead comes with a lot of responsibility and workload and they need to make sure you will be able to handle it and maintain a professional and good relationship with your team. Be patient and continue doing your job while being vocal about your interest.


AND have a positive attitude.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 25, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> 19 years old is still just a kid. You’re not convincing me otherwise.


Age doesn’t make a leader.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 25, 2021)

Ashfromoldsite said:


> Age doesn’t make a leader.


She's not even a fucking leader, though. She does the bare minimum of getting on the walkie and just bossing people around, but she doesn't have any qualities that make me think "Yeah, that's someone who I'd follow into battle." None of the leaders at my store have that. Like I already said, my SD only values TLs as people who are good at sucking up and blindly following orders.


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## seasonaldude (Nov 25, 2021)

This is the thread that keeps on giving. LMAO. Being a leader in retail isn't about getting people to follow you into battle. Even if it were (again it isn't), I wouldn't follow someone who throws tantrums when they don't get their way RIGHT THIS SECOND simply because they think they are owed something (they aren't).

OP,  you seem to have nothing but negative things to say about your store, your SD, and your store's TLs. Why the hell would you want to be a leader at that store? If the SD really just wants someone who will blindly follow orders (like say into battle...   ), then wouldn't that be expected of you in a leadership role? Sounds awful for someone like you, who is obviously cut from a different, finer cloth.

You are so busy focusing on what you think you deserve that you're missing your opportunities to actually show leadership skills. If you're the seasonal DBO, then no doubt you have a lot of TMs helping in the department right now. What are you do to make them better TMs? Are you working with the seasonals to teach them how to be independent if they are kept on and get their own area or are you just focusing on what work you can get done?


----------



## Zxy123456 (Nov 25, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> 19 years old is still just a kid. You’re not convincing me
> 
> 
> CartoonPenguin said:
> ...


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## Fluttervale (Nov 25, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> She's not even a fucking leader, though. She does the bare minimum of getting on the walkie and just bossing people around, but she doesn't have any qualities that make me think "Yeah, that's someone who I'd follow into battle." None of the leaders at my store have that. Like I already said, my SD only values TLs as people who are good at sucking up and blindly following orders.


Our job is to not lead people into battle.  I just had a 20 year old promote.  He’s wonderful.  Makes good choices, helps his peers without being a sick about it, makes eye contact and can chat with other leaders, always wants to help his peers and other teams.  That’s the kind of leader I want.  He has never led a team, but I’m confident that he can prioritize and decide who should do what and when.  He’s done that with his peers for a year.  

When I look for direct reports, I don’t look for experience or working hard. Everyone works hard in their own mind. Not everyone works hard on the right things. I have a TM that wants to promote that doesn’t understand yet that it’s not about working hard, it’s doing the right things at the right time. I have another that won’t promote until they can stop seeing every redirect or conversation as a direct attack on whether they are a good employee. They’re all good employees. Not all of them will succeed, and of the four I have in development, three of them would absolutely fail in the store I sent the 20 year old into, but do well in my store. 

If your disdain for your future peers shows in your store, it will be hard for you to promote.  These are the people you’re going to be working with every day.  The people that are going to help you when someone calls off, the people that you will be expected to help.
It’s an employee’s market right now.  Are you sure this is even the right role for you? It doesn’t sound like you even like your store.


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## Inboundbeast (Nov 25, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> 19 years old is still just a kid. You’re not convincing me otherwise.


And again, you asked for advice and you are letting your emotions get in the way of the factual information you are being given. Some of my peers have done questionable things as well but I know they are in their roles for one reason or another. I am the youngest TL in my store and I have one of the more complicated roles. I’ve been retail managing since i was 19 and i’ve dealt with people like you that got shit to say about young leaders. Doesn’t matter what you think because myself and that 19 year old leader in your store were given interviews and passed on for a reason. I would absolutely NEVER be on board with the promotion of someone who feels the way you do about your potential peers


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 25, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> She's not even a fucking leader, though. She does the bare minimum of getting on the walkie and just bossing people around, but she doesn't have any qualities that make me think "Yeah, that's someone who I'd follow into battle." None of the leaders at my store have that. Like I already said, my SD only values TLs as people who are good at sucking up and blindly following orders.


You’re not helping your case here.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Nov 25, 2021)

*Audie Leon Murphy* (20 June 1925 – 28 May 1971) was an American soldier, actor, songwriter, and rancher. He was one of the most decorated American combat soldiers of World War II. He received every military combat award for valor available from the U.S. Army, as well as French and Belgian awards for heroism. Murphy received the Medal of Honor for valor that he demonstrated at the age of 19 for single-handedly holding off a company of German soldiers for an hour at the Colmar Pocket in France in January 1945, then leading a successful counterattack while wounded and out of ammunition.

While we’re on the subjects of 19 year old leaders and people following them into battle, this is what a 19 year old can do. Don’t sell them short.


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## happygoth (Nov 25, 2021)

Inboundbeast said:


> And again, you asked for advice and you are letting your emotions get in the way of the factual information you are being given. Some of my peers have done questionable things as well but I know they are in their roles for one reason or another. I am the youngest TL in my store and I have one of the more complicated roles. I’ve been retail managing since i was 19 and i’ve dealt with people like you that got shit to say about young leaders. Doesn’t matter what you think because myself and that 19 year old leader in your store were given interviews and passed on for a reason. I would absolutely NEVER be on board with the promotion of someone who feels the way you do about your potential peers


To be fair, OP may not let their feelings be known in their store. Sometimes people here forget that this site is used to vent and say thing that you wouldn't or couldn't say "in public", so to speak.

I haven't been overly impressed with most of the leadership I've dealt with at my store in the years that I have been here. I see a lot of TMs getting away with stuff that I find unacceptable and would not tolerate as a leader. However, I would never become management again, it is way too stressful and I don't have the desire to deal with all the crap that comes with a leadership role.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Nov 25, 2021)

It’s all babysitting.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Nov 25, 2021)

^… and (figuratively) dodging bullets.


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## Inboundbeast (Nov 25, 2021)

Legit “Adult babysitter” needs to be added to all TL^ role responsibilities


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## NKG (Nov 25, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> That’s not true.  I put forward a TM that no one even thought of for a promotion in another store and he got the role and is doing well.  This is within the last three months.


Still have to do the bench interview so nice try


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## Inboundbeast (Nov 25, 2021)

happygoth said:


> To be fair, OP may not let their feelings be known in their store. Sometimes people here forget that this site is used to vent and say thing that you wouldn't or couldn't say "in public", so to speak.


Yes you’re more than likely correct on this.. I still do believe that this mindset is not the correct one to have and you should not compare yourself to current leadership in those negative ways. I’ve been there done that and that mindset led me to fail. Hard pill to swallow in the moment but you have to break that mindset


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## happygoth (Nov 25, 2021)

Inboundbeast said:


> Yes you’re more than likely correct on this.. I still do believe that this mindset is not the correct one to have and you should not compare yourself to current leadership in those negative ways. I’ve been there done that and that mindset led me to fail. Hard pill to swallow in the moment but you have to break that mindset


True, and I hate to be negative, but I've seen my share of folks stepping into a leadership role enthusiastically thinking they were going to shake things up and get the ship steering straight, only to be disappointed and beaten down by the realities of the job and the roadblocks set up by fellow leaders.


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## Planosss enraged (Nov 25, 2021)

Dude, OP, just let us know what happens please.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 25, 2021)

happygoth said:


> True, and I hate to be negative, but I've seen my share of folks stepping into a leadership role enthusiastically thinking they were going to shake things up and get the ship steering straight, only to be disappointed and beaten down by the realities of the job and the roadblocks set up by fellow leaders.


I’m not looking to shake things up. I’m just going for a leader role so that me and one of my other GM leaders can legally date in the eyes of the company.


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## happygoth (Nov 25, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I’m not looking to shake things up. I’m just going for a leader role so that me and one of my other GM leaders can legally date in the eyes of the company.


Wait, what?! What about getting the slackers to answer backup calls? You messing with us?


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 25, 2021)

happygoth said:


> Wait, what?! What about getting the slackers to answer backup calls? You messing with us?


I’ll do what I can in terms of work and improving the sales floor, but it’s not the main reason I want the role.


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## sunnydays (Nov 25, 2021)

And Now, Scumbag Alert

i warned you all about how much of a cretin this guy is


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## calimero (Nov 25, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> My store must be an outlier in that case. Every TL we have is a former TM of their respective department that they lead.


I have been a fulfillment tm for the past 6 years, and just became the fulfillment TL. 
I had to apply for it! I was told to apply for it! 
in the past 3 years, 6 TM became TL, and none has quit yet.
On the other hand , several external TL have come and gone!


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 25, 2021)

calimero said:


> I have been a fulfillment tm for the past 6 years, and just became the fulfillment TL.
> I had to apply for it! I was told to apply for it!
> in the past 3 years, 6 TM became TL, and none has quit yet.
> On the other hand , several external TL have come and gone!


When the role became open, did your leaders come to you first about applying or did you have to make the first move?


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## happygoth (Nov 25, 2021)

You want to be a lead to date another lead. Come on man. You know how that sounds? And people tried to give you advice in good faith.


----------



## Inboundbeast (Nov 25, 2021)

Sorry @CartoonPenguin but you’re in this for the wrong reasons. Best of luck to you


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## DBZ (Nov 25, 2021)

One thing I've learned over the years is you can't push a rope


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## Hardlinesmaster (Nov 26, 2021)

Still waiting for high expectations & green metrics to be met by the op.


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## NotCynicalYet (Nov 26, 2021)

DBZ said:


> One thing I've learned over the years is you can't push a rope


Kinda harsh bringing his sexual functionality into this fwiw imo
(/sarcasm font)


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## calimero (Nov 27, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> When the role became open, did your leaders come to you first about applying or did you have to make the first move?


My SD told me to apply, my etl told me to apply, other leader told me to apply.
But I made it clear before,that I was looking for a leader position in that store or another store.


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## rd123 (Nov 27, 2021)

Could some one give few examples of development projects ?


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 27, 2021)

rd123 said:


> Could some one give few examples of development projects ?


I used to have team members run the close.  So I'd have them follow up with the team, lead and delegate tasks.  Also would have then compose a closing email to other leaders.  After that I would go and get feedback from the team and send the team member I was developing to get feedback from the leaders. 

I would also have them lead a transition, planning, setting, follow up and post set walk with SD.  

When we had them I'd have them lead huddles and lead leadership walks with the leadership team.

Always would give them a metric to improve, BRLA, pricing score etc...


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 27, 2021)

So I have something of an update:

I talked with my GM ETL and she told me that our store likes to promote in pairs, which is a pattern that I've noticed in the past and definitely something I should have kept in mind. Our newest Style TL and Visual Merchandiser were promoted at the same time, one of our Front End TL's was promoted at the same time as one of our GM leaders, and another Front End leader was promoted at the same time as another GM Leader. I think they do it because whenever a TM is promoted, someone in HR will put up a giant poster with the TM's pictures on it along with their new TL role and it's meant as a congratulatory acknowledgement. Apparently they like to make that happen with pairs instead of just one TM.

My ETL told me that one of our current Front End leaders is going to be transferring to another store in a few weeks and that there's currently a guest services member on the bench who's going to be taking up her spot once she's gone. That's all she was willing to say, but it looks like if I really want a shot at applying and getting that promotion, I might have to wait a few weeks since they like to do their usual promotion in pairs.


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## sunnydays (Nov 27, 2021)

lol


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## Dream Baby (Nov 27, 2021)

Our store never even announces promotions anymore which is just lazy.

You just hear through the grapevine that so and so is now a TL.


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 27, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> So I have something of an update:
> 
> I talked with my GM ETL and she told me that our store likes to promote in pairs, which is a pattern that I've noticed in the past and definitely something I should have kept in mind. Our newest Style TL and Visual Merchandiser were promoted at the same time, one of our Front End TL's was promoted at the same time as one of our GM leaders, and another Front End leader was promoted at the same time as another GM Leader. I think they do it because whenever a TM is promoted, someone in HR will put up a giant poster with the TM's pictures on it along with their new TL role and it's meant as a congratulatory acknowledgement. Apparently they like to make that happen with pairs instead of just one TM.
> 
> My ETL told me that one of our current Front End leaders is going to be transferring to another store in a few weeks and that there's currently a guest services member on the bench who's going to be taking up her spot once she's gone. That's all she was willing to say, but it looks like if I really want a shot at applying and getting that promotion, I might have to wait a few weeks since they like to do their usual promotion in pairs.


Lol this sounds like such a crock of crap to get you to shut up about it.  Don't you think if they already have the TM lined up for the front end position in which the leader hasn't even left yet that they'd have someone lined up for the position you want already too? Especially considering this person has already announced and maybe by now already gone?

The promoting in pairs sounds so idiotic I don't even know where to start.  But I'll say this, what if there is one TL opening and no one leaves for a year or 2?  Does that person just have to wait until there is another TL opening to get promoted?

If I were in your situation, I'd read between the lines and realize that I am not getting this position.  If you are at the point in which you are in denial about every bit of feedback that everyone on this forum has given you, take it as a sign.

Take it all as a learning experience, just because you don't get this promotion doesn't mean you won't ever get one.  Take the feedback and suggestions from everyone in this thread and use it to your advantage.  Also don't throw hissy fits and throw equipment, if that's true you are lucky to have a job.  I termed someone years ago for the exact same thing.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 27, 2021)

IhateOPmodel said:


> Lol this sounds like such a crock of crap to get you to shut up about it.  Don't you think if they already have the TM lined up for the front end position in which the leader hasn't even left yet that they'd have someone lined up for the position you want already too? Especially considering this person has already announced and maybe by now already gone?
> 
> The promoting in pairs sounds so idiotic I don't even know where to start.  But I'll say this, what if there is one TL opening and no one leaves for a year or 2?  Does that person just have to wait until there is another TL opening to get promoted?
> 
> ...


Our departing GM leader is still here and he himself said that he doesn't know who's going to be filling his role. I mentioned all of this in my OP. That's why it helps to read and pay attention, sweetheart.

And yes, our store has let certain TL roles hang in the air for a while. Our third GM role (the one given to the 19 year old) was left unfilled for a while simply because nobody at our store expressed interest and our store doesn't approach TM's about roles. At our store, it's always on the basis of the TM making the first move.


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 27, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Our departing GM leader is still here and he himself said that he doesn't know who's going to be filling his role. I mentioned all of this in my OP. That's why it helps to read and pay attention, sweetheart.
> 
> And yes, our store has let certain TL roles hang in the air for a while. Our third GM role (the one given to the 19 year old) was left unfilled for a while simply because nobody at our store expressed interest and our store doesn't approach TM's about roles. At our store, it's always on the basis of the TM making the first move.


Well sweet heart I'm sure even if your departing GMTL knew who was replacing him that they'd be sworn to secrecy and I'm sure they wouldn't be the one to break the news to you that you aren't under consideration.  I didn't mention it because I figured it went without saying and others had mentioned it.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 27, 2021)

IhateOPmodel said:


> Well sweet heart I'm sure even if your departing GMTL knew who was replacing him that they'd be sworn to secrecy and I'm sure they wouldn't be the one to break the news to you that you aren't under consideration.  I didn't mention it because I figured it went without saying and others had mentioned it.


Not true. I’ve worked here seven years and we’ve had instances of Leaders announcing their departure and immediately knowing who’ll be taking their place.

ASANTS.


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 27, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Not true. I’ve worked here seven years and we’ve had instances of Leaders announcing their departure and immediately knowing who’ll be taking their place.
> 
> ASANTS.


Good luck.  Be sure to come back and let us know if you get it.


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## CartoonPenguin (Nov 27, 2021)

IhateOPmodel said:


> Good luck.  Be sure to come back and let us know if you get it.


I am going to get it. Then I'm going to screenshot all of these comments telling me that I'm not going to get and then I'm going to laugh my fucking ass off.


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## IhateOPmodel (Nov 27, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I am going to get it. Then I'm going to screenshot all of these comments telling me that I'm not going to get and then I'm going to laugh my fucking ass off.


Ok!


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## Dream Baby (Nov 28, 2021)

I have never understood why companies (not just Target) don't announce potential job opportunities especially to fill a vacancy.

Instead they either just pick someone that will take the job at the last minute,

If they are already working there you should interview anyone that is currently an employee. You would only have to talk to them for 30 minutes.


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## Hal (Nov 28, 2021)

Okay. I'm going to jump in here because I've been watching this for a bit. I'm not store side but supply chain. But I'm someone who started as a TM and was promoted to an OM (ETL) and also helped others become promoted as either OMs or to our new lead roles that we finally rolled out in stores DCs. So I may not have experience store side but I think I can speak as someone who's gotten people somewhere they want to go.

I'm going to be brutally honest and transparent, from what I've seen in this thread I would never promote you.

First, talking down about other leaders and peers in your building. I get it, Target sucks, there's tons of stupid things we do, ASANTS and all the rest. Guess what? I have a team of about 150 people and 4 leads reporting to me and I've got about 90 of them just like you who constantly complain about status quo. I don't need more and I don't need someone who in a leadership role is going to complain about their subordinates, peers, leaders etc. I need someone who's going to tell me what's wrong and tell me what they are doing to fix it. My best lead and TMs are the ones who go out recognize problems and try to fix them. And if/when they mess up they don't say "well so and so is an idiot and did x y and z wrong so I didn't do my job." They say "we did this wrong and next time we're going to try this to avoid it". That's what your leadership wants to see. Problem solving. Also the whole tossing your equipment in a tantrum, shows me you can't handle stress well and guess what being a leader at Target is? Being stressed from the moment you walk in the door until you go home.

Second, stop comparing yourself to others. I have had 6 partners in my department ranging from the ages of 22 to 60. The worst one was the 60 year old who couldn't run a department to save their life despite 20+ years of WHS management experience and got fired. And the best one? The 22 year old. They're young and inexperienced, but they've got a good head on their shoulders and ask the right questions to understand their business and what moves they need to make to get better. I'll probably be reporting to the kid someday, they're that good and they'll have earned it. Me at 22? I was an arrogant entitled shithead who had to learn the hard way I don't know everything. Age means nothing. Who cares that the other lead is only 19. She might just be better at the job than you. Learn from it and be better.

Third, you better hope to god no one ever finds out you want to be a lead so you can date another lead. That might be the worst reason for wanting more responsibility that I've ever heard. If you want to date than just transfer stores or quit. Otherwise if anyone on your leadership team finds out I doubt you'll ever get promoted.

You may need to take some time to reevaluate on why you want to be a TL because it sounds like you're doing it for all the wrong reasons and you're setting yourself up for failure.


----------



## BackupTL (Dec 4, 2021)

This sounds oddly familiar to a certain Reddit post asking the same thing where multiple users mentioned that maybe your chances were killed by yelling at your ETL and throwing a myDevice? Lmao


----------



## Planosss enraged (Dec 4, 2021)

A post set walk with the SD 🤣


----------



## 60SecondsRemaining (Dec 4, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I am going to get it. Then I'm going to screenshot all of these comments telling me that I'm not going to get and then I'm going to laugh my fucking ass off.





> To spot, a leader is a process manager. They don't give one single shit whether or not you inspire people to do better, or whether you foster an environment on your team of collective success. We know this because they have no metrics for it. As long as the work is being done spot does not care how or to what level of sustainability this is accomplished. They will simply replace you when the work stops being accomplished.



I sent this to you a few months ago where you sent me a crotchety ass response about being bitter.

Can you tell me now after working your ass off for two months with nothing to show for it how that's working out for you?  Doesn't look like very well.  The only people laughing here are us.  At you.



Good luck friend, I hope you can learn to see advice given for what it is and create some success in the future.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 5, 2021)

What a bunch of shit.

Today I went into work and saw that we’ve just hired a new GMTL and they completely passed me up.


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## Planosss enraged (Dec 5, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> What a bunch of shit.
> 
> Today I went into work and saw that we’ve just hired a new GMTL and they completely passed me up.


😱 you don’t say 😢


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## IhateOPmodel (Dec 5, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I am going to get it. Then I'm going to screenshot all of these comments telling me that I'm not going to get and then I'm going to laugh my fucking ass off.


What happened to this?

Do I get laugh my fucking ass off now?

I guess everyone else was right and you were wrong.  I suggest you take the advice of everyone in this thread and use it to learn from and become a leader.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 5, 2021)

IhateOPmodel said:


> What happened to this?
> 
> Do I get laugh my fucking ass off now?
> 
> I guess everyone else was right and you were wrong.  I suggest you take the advice of everyone in this thread and use it to learn from and become a leader.


Okay, I’m going to seriously ask for advice right now.

What do I do here? I asked for a conversation with my GM ETL about it and she basically said that the district lead gave us this new guy to fill the GM TL role and that they didn’t really know about it beforehand or have much of a say in it, which I don’t buy.

She also told me that I’m simply not ready to lead a team. I rebutted by saying that they chose a 19 year old kid as a leader and she said that the 19 year old has qualities in leadership that they appreciate. When I asked her to elaborate on said qualities, she actually begin stammering over her words and then just said that the store’s reasons for promoting certain people are none of my business, which basically confirms to me that there’s a lot more going on with this 19 year old than her simply just being a good leader.

My GM ETL told me that she still wants to develop me and get me ready for leadership. She says that she’s planning on having me work evening shifts and helping our closing TL “own the closing team members”.

I’m just really upset and disappointed in all of this. She claims that she still wants to develop me and she’s urging patience on my part, but I don’t know if I can do that. I’ve been working here for seven years and I’m tired of seeing the everyone else excel past me and there’s obviously no predicting when a new role will open up. What’s my next move?


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## lucidtm (Dec 5, 2021)

If the district lead handed them someone and said "here is your new GMTL" then there isn't a damn thing anyone in your store can do. Even if they were 1000% sure they were promoting internally if the DSD comes out of left field and says they're hiring this person then they are. Period. That's just the chain of command.

It really sounds like she gave you the direct answer as to why you didn't get the job - you're simply not ready to lead a team. If your behavior here and on Reddit is any indication, I'd say they're right. If you REALLY want to be a TL, then they're most certainly waiting for you to overhaul your attitude and mature. Maturity has nothing to do with age, it's all your behavior/how you act. 

With this new GMTL, if I were you, I'd be incredibly respectful and helpful. I'd be going above and beyond to prove to everyone that I am the type of leader they want - which means no outbursts, no tantrums, no unprovable accusations, etc. Control your temper. 

Keep working hard while working on improving how you act and how you treat other people - especially your leaders and other co-workers. You've spent a lot of time with Target. If you're frustrated with how you're being treated and don't feel they're doing what is right, then you need to leave and find a job that will treat you the way you're looking to be treated.


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## happygoth (Dec 5, 2021)

Throwing your zebra down in anger left a bad taste in that leader's mouth. Even if they aren't there anymore, word likely spread and that impression is hard to erase. 

I wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere also knows that the REAL reason you want to be a leader is to date another leader. Worst reason to seek a promotion ever dude. 

Despite the obvious flaws in your reasoning and approach, you do not come across as a dumb person, so...what do YOU think is the problem? Has anything that anyone online said made any sense to you?


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## Black Sheep 214 (Dec 5, 2021)

Reading between the lines, if you want a leadership position anytime soon, or likely ever, you will need to go elsewhere to find it. Your store leadership has already told you that they feel that you are not ready to lead a team. They may carrot dangle and use you to do TL work for TM pay, stringing you along for as long as it is advantageous to them, without ever feeling that you are ready. Spot seems to be very good at that “Why buy the cow when the milk is free” type of thing, and if you have ever done anything that would put you on management’s sh*t list, be advised that Spot has a long memory, details of which are passed to new leaders so that you will likely never get off of it.
On the other hand, if you go to a new company, you will start with a clean slate and will just need to project a positive attitude to maintain it.


----------



## Ashfromoldsite (Dec 5, 2021)

Told. You. So. Lmao


----------



## Ashfromoldsite (Dec 5, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Okay, I’m going to seriously ask for advice right now.
> 
> What do I do here? I asked for a conversation with my GM ETL about it and she basically said that the district lead gave us this new guy to fill the GM TL role and that they didn’t really know about it beforehand or have much of a say in it, which I don’t buy.
> 
> ...


The dtl can put a tl in stores. This is common. He could have had someone on the bench in another store. He could have been contacted by another dtl with a tl moving and needing a store in your district.
Unless you’ve been given opportunities to LEAD teams, you aren’t being developed for a tl role and you aren’t ready.
As I said before. This is bigger than just working with your etl. The etl has NO SAY. if you truly want developed to be a tl you HAVE to talk with your SD.


----------



## MrT (Dec 5, 2021)

My advice is to stop worrying about what other people are doing and what other people are accomplishing and be happy for them.  Having a negative attitude seems to be your biggest weakness.  They will not promote you if you won't get along with all the other leaders. 
 Lastly, it us very possible your DSD had someone in mind for a promotion or was able to poach them from another company and basically hand it to your SD.
Stop worrying about this 19 year old.  Stop worrying about being there for 7 years amd thinking you deserve ut because there are probably another 1000 candidates just luke you around the company.  I understand your frustration as it took me 3 years to get promoted and i honestly regret waiting that long and not looking elsewhere harder.


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## Fluttervale (Dec 5, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Okay, I’m going to seriously ask for advice right now.
> 
> What do I do here? I asked for a conversation with my GM ETL about it and she basically said that the district lead gave us this new guy to fill the GM TL role and that they didn’t really know about it beforehand or have much of a say in it, which I don’t buy.
> 
> ...


Your ETL has zero responsibility to explain the hiring choices to you.  ZERO.  You are not owed an explanation about anyone else in your building, and it would be extremely unprofessional for them to compare and contrast with you.

If you can’t understand why someone else may have been chosen you do not understand leadership well enough to earn a promotion.  It shows that you are unable to be unbiased and treat your team fairly.  You are unable to realize others have strengths that may be different from your own but are no less valuable.

No surprise you didn’t get an interview.  You’re not ready.


----------



## CartoonPenguin (Dec 5, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> Your ETL has zero responsibility to explain the hiring choices to you.  ZERO.  You are not owed an explanation about anyone else in your building, and it would be extremely unprofessional for them to compare and contrast with you.
> 
> If you can’t understand why someone else may have been chosen you do not understand leadership well enough to earn a promotion.  It shows that you are unable to be unbiased and treat your team fairly.  You are unable to realize others have strengths that may be different from your own but are no less valuable.
> 
> No surprise you didn’t get an interview.  You’re not ready.


Well, I've decided that I'm at least going to tell my ETL that I'm not longer interested in leadership. Might as well start looking for a new company to work for while I'm at it.


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## Fluttervale (Dec 5, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Well, I've decided that I'm at least going to tell my ETL that I'm not longer interested in leadership. Might as well start looking for a new company to work for while I'm at it.



I would hold off on doing that for at least a month.  If you change your mind you’ve already burned that bridge and it’ll take you another year to get back to where you are today.  Let yourself cool off before you make that decision.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 5, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> I would hold off on doing that for at least a month.  If you change your mind you’ve already burned that bridge and it’ll take you another year to get back to where you are today.  Let yourself cool off before you make that decision.


What else am I suppose to do? They’re obviously not serious about developing and promoting me. They’re just going to keep dumping extra workload on me under the guise of development, but they’re clearly not putting in the effort to give me a shot at actually leading a team.


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## DBZ (Dec 6, 2021)

You said you wanted advice about how to go forward. You need to start listening. We have given you so much advice. Go back and read it. We might be right. 

Hearing that they got a new GM TL was disappointing for you. You can be bummed out about this, but try not to let any leaders see you upset.

Your ETL offered you the closing expert role. Take it! Some stores use that as a way to train people who are in the pipeline or on the bench. It sucks to hear, but the truth is that it can take a whole friggin year to get promoted. There will be more ups and downs. You might get your ass chewed. They will look at how you do when you are stressed, etc.


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## sunnydays (Dec 6, 2021)

this person is not capable of listening to advice


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## IhateOPmodel (Dec 6, 2021)

This person is a troll right?


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## Fluttervale (Dec 6, 2021)

IhateOPmodel said:


> This person is a troll right?


Probably not, if my experience watching TMs not get promoted is typical.  Some have introspection and some don’t.  Many think it’s all about seniority and not skill, usually because their parents had union jobs.


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## IhateOPmodel (Dec 6, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> Probably not, if my experience watching TMs not get promoted is typical.  Some have introspection and some don’t.  Many think it’s all about seniority and not skill, usually because their parents had union jobs.


If they honestly mentioned the "19 year old child" when talking to the ETL I would write this person off my list of possible promotions immediately.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 6, 2021)

DBZ said:


> You said you wanted advice about how to go forward. You need to start listening. We have given you so much advice. Go back and read it. We might be right.
> 
> Hearing that they got a new GM TL was disappointing for you. You can be bummed out about this, but try not to let any leaders see you upset.
> 
> Your ETL offered you the closing expert role. Take it! Some stores use that as a way to train people who are in the pipeline or on the bench. It sucks to hear, but the truth is that it can take a whole friggin year to get promoted. There will be more ups and downs. You might get your ass chewed. They will look at how you do when you are stressed, etc.


It's not even the official closing expert role. We already have a closing expert. My schedule just has me listed under my usual truck routine and I honestly think that my ETL is just telling me this to placate me.

She already did something similar like this. When we first talked about leadership, she said that she was going to schedule me to run the overnight Christmas transition set and that I'd be the leader in charge of the group setting, but that's not what happened. One of our normal GM leaders ended up leading us and I was nothing more than just a regular TM doing transition work and still having to report to someone. Hence why I think that they're not serious about promoting me.


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## IhateOPmodel (Dec 6, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> It's not even the official closing expert role. We already have a closing expert. My schedule just has me listed under my usual truck routine and I honestly think that my ETL is just telling me this to placate me.
> 
> She already did something similar like this. When we first talked about leadership, she said that she was going to schedule me to run the overnight Christmas transition set and that I'd be the leader in charge of the group setting, but that's not what happened. One of our normal GM leaders ended up leading us and I was nothing more than just a regular TM doing transition work and still having to report to someone. Hence why I think that they're not serious about promoting me.


Did you just show up to the overnight expecting to be in charge? Did you talk to the other leader who was scheduled with you and tell them what your ETL told you?  A lot of the time situations like this are about follow up and it's on you to do it.  The ETL isn't the one trying to get promoted and can only do some much for you.  You need to take initiative and hold them accountable for the things they tell you.  Don't expect anything just based of their word, they couldn't care less if you get promoted or not as you've seen there is always someone else.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 6, 2021)

So I have another update:

When I got into work today, my ETL pulled me into her office for a talk and I honestly was expecting trouble. My attitude ever since our last talk was noticeably deteriorating and I was expecting a coaching conversation, at the very least.

But my ETL mentioned our last talk and she said that she was proud of me for bringing up the issue and bringing it to her attention. She told me that it was the first time in my development that I really stepped up and showed some type of initiative, some type of drive that showed that I really wanted that TL role. She explained that she now sees how badly I want a lead role.

She told me that our store was more than likely to be getting a role opening up in January or February. I was honestly drifting in and out of the conversation and I wasn’t fully paying attention, but she mentioned things like a “back end TL” and she mentioned things pertaining to the upcoming store remodel. She basically asked me if I was still serious about a TL role and that we can seriously step up my training and development to prepare for when the role opens up.

I told her that I’m 50/50 on leadership and that I’d like some time to weigh all of my options, which is the truth. I’ve spent the past 24 hours applying to new jobs and the truth is that I still haven’t fully cooled down ever since I found out about the new GMTL. I’m just really confused and conflicted about all of this and I need some direction on where to go from here.


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## NightHuntress (Dec 6, 2021)

That’s the “carrot dangling” for you. Personally after reading all the posts and even your latest one- you have a lot to change if you ever want to be a lead. You expected a coaching so you knew your attitude has been bad. Hell, you couldn’t even pay attention when being spoken to in a conversation.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do either staying with Target or another company. But I feel if you do stay with Target and don’t make changes we will be seeing the same kind of post in another couple months


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 6, 2021)

targetuser said:


> That’s the “carrot dangling” for you. Personally after reading all the posts and even your latest one- you have a lot to change if you ever want to be a lead. You expected a coaching so you knew your attitude has been bad. Hell, you couldn’t even pay attention when being spoken to in a conversation.
> Good luck with whatever you decide to do either staying with Target or another company. But I feel if you do stay with Target and don’t make changes we will be seeing the same kind of post in another couple months


Enlighten me. What changes do I need to make?


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## DBZ (Dec 6, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Enlighten me. What changes do I need to make?



What changes do you think you need to make? We all have room for growth.


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## commiecorvus (Dec 6, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Enlighten me. What changes do I need to make?



This is going to be a rough one because you seem to be rather hard to give advice but I will take a shot at it.
A lot of people have tried to help in this thread and you have routinely blown them off.
That takes a lot of hubris considering your lack of experience.

So lets start with how you learn things.
There are people working the floor who may just be common grunts but they know a lot of shit you don't.
They don't want to become leaders because they hate politics but they set the example for the rest of the team.
Those are the people you want to watch.
They know how to work fast and how to do stuff nobody else does.
Even the bosses go to them when things aren't working.
Pick their brains, learn from them, try to be as good as they are, but you don't want to pick up their attitude because you haven't earned it.

Kick ass and take names.
Work as hard or harder than anyone else.
Do the dirty jobs that suck, than do the next one.
Be out front but pay attention to what is happening behind you.
If people are fucking around take a note.
Are they doing it all the time or just taking a couple of minutes.
If they are constantly not doing what they are supposed to, make a joke out of it.
You aren't their boss yet but shame works wonders.

Learn how to talk to people who are older than you with respect.
I ran brigades with chefs who had been cooking twice as long as I had.
If I had ordered them around like a bunch of kids I wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
Be open and honest, the less you try to bullshit people the further you will get.
However, this doesn't mean being rude or shitty.
Kindness and being polite costs nothing.

Pay attention to the small details and fix them yourself without whining about it.
This will play out in the long run.
It will make your job easier and folks will notice when their jobs are easier.

Most of all act like a grownup.
This means understanding that the world doesn't revolve around you and shit happens that you have no control over.
Most people don't care about your problems and are just trying to get through their days without cracking.
Don't make your problems theirs.

I'll stop there since I suspect most of this is going to just annoy you but give it some thought.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 6, 2021)

commiecorvus said:


> This is going to be a rough one because you seem to be rather hard to give advice but I will take a shot at it.
> A lot of people have tried to help in this thread and you have routinely blown them off.
> That takes a lot of hubris considering your lack of experience.
> 
> ...


So it's not too late for me? Do you genuinely think that I should take another crack at being promoted?


----------



## boringClerk03 (Dec 6, 2021)

I have nothing to add to CartoonPenguin specifically, but I just gotta say, this is an extremely important thread with a lot of valuable information for those that are looking to grow. Despite the hostility of the OP, there's a lot of great advice from veterans and leaders that honestly, anyone can learn from, especially developing team members that stumble upon this thread.

This SHOULD NOT get lost, and I believe there should be some way for this thread to be stickied to the top if anyone can do that. There's too much invaluable advice and other info here, and while this thread is still popping, it won't always be.


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## commiecorvus (Dec 6, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> So it's not too late for me? Do you genuinely think that I should take another crack at being promoted?



I can't say for sure.
I don't know the nature of the people managing the place you work.
Some may sincerely want to promote you but may not be able to find a place.
Some may have no idea who the heck you are.
Some might not like you.
What you have to do is make all of that irrelevant.
You need to develop the habits and methods of being a good leader, then worry about being promoted.
If Target turns out not to be the place for advancement that's fine, you learned some useful things.
Once you have those skills under your belt go find a place that will do right by you.
But right now, as they say in video games, git gud.


----------



## CartoonPenguin (Dec 6, 2021)

commiecorvus said:


> I can't say for sure.
> I don't know the nature of the people managing the place you work.
> Some may sincerely want to promote you but may not be able to find a place.
> Some may have no idea who the heck you are.
> ...


Would you happen to know about the potential role that my ETL brought up? Like I said, I wasn’t fully paying attention and I’m not even sure if I heard her right on some things. I just vaguely recall her mentioning our store’s remodel and the term “back end leader”.


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## commiecorvus (Dec 6, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Would you happen to know about the potential role that my ETL brought up? Like I said, I wasn’t fully paying attention and I’m not even sure if I heard her right on some things. I just vaguely recall her mentioning our store’s remodel and the term “back end leader”.



During a remodel there are a lot of temporary lead positions.
They are very temporary, don't make you any more money, can be really stressful (though the whole remodel process can be that), and can lead nowhere.
However, you can also prove yourself as a good leader.
This is a chance to demonstrate that you can do the job and they can count on you.
It's worth for, as I pointed out, if nothing else, the learning experience.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 6, 2021)

commiecorvus said:


> They are very temporary, don't make you any more money, can be really stressful (though the whole remodel process can be that), and can lead nowhere.


Are you fucking kidding me? Then what’s the point?!


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## boringClerk03 (Dec 6, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Are you fucking kidding me? Then what’s the point?!


Bro, In my opinion, Target isn't for you. People that want to develop within retail companies generally want the tenure and to make it into a serious career for some reason, and if that's you, then you'll need to either be patient or find something else. Target has a very strange way of promoting people, and almost everyone knows it. This company is full of false promises, broken processes, and faulty operations; I'm sure you're cognizant of all of these by now. If you're not in the pipeline, the process becomes a waiting game and a competition, and your store leadership AND district essentially have the power to play with you until they feel like dumping you into a position that you may not even ascertain, and then you're dealing with problems all over again. 

There are literally SO MANY other companies that are willing to grow and develop leaders, and better yet, you can even apply for a leadership position at another company and go from there with a CLEAN SLATE. You're not indebted to THIS company. As others have alluded to, it's a worker's market; take advantage of all of the money and positions while they're hot and accessible before the market goes down and eventually collapses again.

I honestly can't properly read you, but my guess is that you're either very passionate/stubborn and it's clouding your judgment; you have a personality disorder and can't fully comprehend what people are typing to you, or you're just the biggest troll this website AND Reddit has seen in a while.

Either way, just reflect on what you want IN YOUR LONG-TERM endeavors and assess if Target is really where you want to be. In my view, you're wasting your time here when you could be applying your skills somewhere else. There are so many bad, god awful, cuntish leaders, especially in low-skill jobs, and these people are just trying to tell you the skills THEY recognize in developing strong leaders, but ultimately, people are people. Genuinely stupid and undeserving people get promoted all of the time, this is what I'm talking about regarding the company's promotional practices. That 19-year-old was more than likely easy to mold into a company drone; you're very abrasive, confrontational, and call people on their shit; Target doesn't really like that because you're not a yes man.  

I'm just saying, expand your horizons and know your value, this place just doesn't feel like a fit for you because the effort you'd need to "prove" to your leadership that you're ready for a spot can take years, and that would be a waste of your time.


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## commiecorvus (Dec 6, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Are you fucking kidding me? Then what’s the point?!



Did you not read the rest of my post or the entire post that made, for fucks sake?


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 6, 2021)

I don


commiecorvus said:


> Did you not read the rest of my post or the entire post that made, for fucks sake?


Goddamn, I don’t need a learning experience. I’ve been working here for seven years. I’ve been around the block.


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## commiecorvus (Dec 6, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I don
> 
> Goddamn, I don’t need a learning experience. I’ve been working here for seven years. I’ve been around the block.



Do you have any experience as a leader? Officially?
You may have been around the block but you haven't hit the marks.


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## lucidtm (Dec 7, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I don
> 
> Goddamn, I don’t need a learning experience. I’ve been working here for seven years. I’ve been around the block.



Your leaders clearly think you still have learning to do. It's evident by your behavior and immaturity exhibited on this thread that you have learning to do. 

"Learning" doesn't just mean "learning to be a leader." Learning could also mean: 

Learning how to act.
Learning respect.
Learning to be grateful.
Learning how to talk to people above your position and below it.

I could go on, but I'm hoping you understand. There is a lot more to leadership and learning to be a leader than just being the boss of some people.


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## MrT (Dec 7, 2021)

Its not too late the job but you need to mature a lot.  The job is not hard its glorified babysitting.  Your attitude needs to change.  You need to lead, you need to cooperate with your other leaders, and you need to set examples.  If your being difficult and challenging everything they say they will not promote you.   You can challenge and have your own ideas but in the end you have to do what your leader says.  There has to be an actual leader in the building for overnights with codes, keys, amd everything.  They probably were looming for you to step up there and you didnt.  Dont complain to other tms, dont talk shit about your leadership team, and dont blame others for not getting the job.  There has been do many people giving advice about the same stuff.  If you want actual help and questions ill help, but at this point its luke talking to a tree.


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## Fluttervale (Dec 7, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I don
> 
> Goddamn, I don’t need a learning experience. I’ve been working here for seven years. I’ve been around the block.


Well you need to think about why your ETL would promote you when you already don’t get along with or respect one of your future peers.  What are you bringing to the table that offsets hours of drama on a weekly basis?  Because as a leader there isn’t anything you could bring to the table that makes up for drama.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 7, 2021)

MrT said:


> They probably were looming for you to step up there and you didnt.


What exactly do you mean by this part?


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 7, 2021)

Fluttervale said:


> Well you need to think about why your ETL would promote you when you already don’t get along with or respect one of your future peers.  What are you bringing to the table that offsets hours of drama on a weekly basis?  Because as a leader there isn’t anything you could bring to the table that makes up for drama.


You need to understand where I’m coming from with this 19 year old, though.

When I was 19, I had been with the company for a year and I approached my old logistics ETL about leadership. She denied me on the spot for development and told me that I was too young and didn’t have enough seniority.

So when I’m told one day that 19 years old and a year of experience isn’t enough to be promoted, but then another day I see a 19 year old being promoted after only being with the company for 6-7 months, that’s undeniably going to make me feel confused and frustrated about the lack of consistency with who the company decides is right to promote. Now I just look at this 19 year old and see a reminder of what could’ve been for me.


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## MrT (Dec 7, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> What exactly do you mean by this part?


You said you didnt do anything other then transition work.  Did you ask help lead.  There should be plano audits done after each set, making sure all signing was completed, push was done, whatever.  The best way to build a relationship with your leadership team is to ask for feedback consistantly.  Did you talk to your etl or the gmtl that was there overnight about what more you could of done to help.  They are not going to do it for you we are all way to busy.


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## MrT (Dec 7, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> You need to understand where I’m coming from with this 19 year old, though.
> 
> When I was 19, I had been with the company for a year and I approached my old logistics ETL about leadership. She denied me on the spot for development and told me that I was too young and didn’t have enough seniority.
> 
> So when I’m told one day that 19 years old and a year of experience isn’t enough to be promoted, but then another day I see a 19 year old being promoted after only being with the company for 6-7 months, that’s undeniably going to make me feel confused and frustrated about the lack of consistency with who the company decides is right to promote. Now I just look at this 19 year old and see a reminder of what could’ve been for me.


First off, stop.  It does not matter what made them choose the 19 year old, even if it was only because she is the daughter of brian cornell, it does not matter.  She might of been a lead at another company or had leadership experiance, she might just be extremely personable, or she could of got lucky.  Secondly, because she might be ready at 19 and you weren't according to them doesnt matter.  Maybe they didnt like you for whatever reason.  Lastly that was 7 years ago or 6 i guess.  Spot is a very different company from then.
The only thing that matters is how you get the promotion or a better job somewhere else.  Look at what you need to do to grow and stop worrying about what others are doing or think.  There are plenty of bad leaders at spot and everywhere else for many reasons and letting them judge you does no good.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 7, 2021)

MrT said:


> First off, stop.  It does not matter what made them choose the 19 year old, even if it was only because she is the daughter of brian cornell, it does not matter.  She might of been a lead at another company or had leadership experiance, she might just be extremely personable, or she could of got lucky.  Secondly, because she might be ready at 19 and you weren't according to them doesnt matter.  Maybe they didnt like you for whatever reason.  Lastly that was 7 years ago or 6 i guess.  Spot is a very different company from then.
> The only thing that matters is how you get the promotion or a better job somewhere else.  Look at what you need to do to grow and stop worrying about what others are doing or think.  There are plenty of bad leaders at spot and everywhere else for many reasons and letting them judge you does no good.


I honestly don’t see how I’m going to get along with the 19 year old though. Me and her were giving each other the cold shoulder all day yesterday.

After my talk with my ETL, the 19 year old was going around the sales floor and taking orders from GM TM’s since she was buying everyone drinks from Starbucks. I was pushing toys with two other TM’s and she took their orders, but she very blatantly ignored me and didn’t take my order. I get the feeling that the tone has now been set for our workplace relationship now.


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## MrT (Dec 7, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> I honestly don’t see how I’m going to get along with the 19 year old though. Me and her were giving each other the cold shoulder all day yesterday.
> 
> After my talk with my ETL, the 19 year old was going around the sales floor and taking orders from GM TM’s since she was buying everyone drinks from Starbucks. I was pushing toys with two other TM’s and she took their orders, but she very blatantly ignored me and didn’t take my order. I get the feeling that the tone has now been set for our workplace relationship now.


No offense but you do seem difficult to work with.  If you are serious about being promoted in your store or in target mend that bridge.  If your not going to put forth the effort dont bother applying for other tl jobs.  That is also unprofessional of them but in my store leaders will 100% have each others backs over tms so imo its best for you to bite the bullet and start the conversation.  She obviously did something right to get the promotion so maybe she could help you understand why.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 7, 2021)

MrT said:


> No offense but you do seem difficult to work with.  If you are serious about being promoted in your store or in target mend that bridge.  If your not going to put forth the effort dont bother applying for other tl jobs.  That is also unprofessional of them but in my store leaders will 100% have each others backs over tms so imo its best for you to bite the bullet and start the conversation.  She obviously did something right to get the promotion so maybe she could help you understand why.


So I'm on my lunch break right now and one of my GM leaders just told me that once I'm off break, her and the rest of the GM leaders are going into a status meeting and that I'm going to be put in charge as a designated GM leader to listen out for calls on the walkie for anything GM related. I'm honestly really nervous and I could really use some advice on how to handle this. My lunch ends in 28 minutes, so some input ASAP would be nice.


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## IhateOPmodel (Dec 7, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> So I'm on my lunch break right now and one of my GM leaders just told me that once I'm off break, her and the rest of the GM leaders are going into a status meeting and that I'm going to be put in charge as a designated GM leader to listen out for calls on the walkie for anything GM related. I'm honestly really nervous and I could really use some advice on how to handle this. My lunch ends in 28 minutes, so some input ASAP would be nice.


Just do your best.  If I were you I'd walk the floor and just get an idea of what's going on and where everyone is with any projects or truck push for the day. When they get out of the status you should go and follow up with the leader who put you in charge and let them know where things stand and what you observed.  Also ask for feedback on how you handled any issues if you had anything you had to deal with.


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## 60SecondsRemaining (Dec 7, 2021)

Bruh this guy is clearly a troll.

Every one of his posts takes advice given to him and rewords it into his current situation.


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## NightHuntress (Dec 7, 2021)

Really need to get over the whole “19 year old” thing. It’s done, over, move on. Life isn’t always fair. Tough shit. It just keeps coming back to the 19 year old. Never going to go anywhere if you can’t get over that.


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## CartoonPenguin (Dec 7, 2021)

targetuser said:


> Really need to get over the whole “19 year old” thing. It’s done, over, move on. Life isn’t always fair. Tough shit. It just keeps coming back to the 19 year old. Never going to go anywhere if you can’t get over that.


I’m thinking that I should at least offer an apology to my ETL. My attitude today was better and me and her seemed to be getting along just fine, but I’ve been having this nagging feeling in the back of my head telling me that I need to actually request a private conversation and formally apologize for my attitude and behavior these past few days.


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## MrT (Dec 7, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> So I'm on my lunch break right now and one of my GM leaders just told me that once I'm off break, her and the rest of the GM leaders are going into a status meeting and that I'm going to be put in charge as a designated GM leader to listen out for calls on the walkie for anything GM related. I'm honestly really nervous and I could really use some advice on how to handle this. My lunch ends in 28 minutes, so some input ASAP would be nice.


Sorry i was asleep as im working overnights.  Just don't let the building burn to the ground and you should be fine.  Make sure people are answering phones and working.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Dec 7, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> Well, I've decided that I'm at least going to tell my ETL that I'm not longer interested in leadership. Might as well start looking for a new company to work for while I'm at it.


Good grief. Don’t quit after one opportunity wasn’t given to you. Ask for developmental opportunities. You will never just be handed a promotion. Work for it.


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## Ashfromoldsite (Dec 7, 2021)

commiecorvus said:


> Did you not read the rest of my post or the entire post that made, for fucks sake?


He was zoning in and out while reading it.


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## Hal (Dec 8, 2021)

Man. I would love to help you. I really would.  But you come across as so arrogant and self-entitled that it feels like anything that's said goes in one ear and out the other.

From the moment I said to my direct leaders I want to be a level 5 what do I need to do, it took me over 3 years. And in the DC until recently we didn't have Lead roles so it was a pretty big jump. I had to wade through so much garbage to get there. Deal with it.

I watched us hire people younger than me, less qualified than me. If you somehow can't get over the fact that someone younger than you has a position of authority over you,  you're not going to make it anywhere. Deal with it. I have tons of people I've worked with and for who I hated. Be professional and do your job to the best of your ability.

I put myself in front of every leader I could find and let them know what I wanted to do and asked them what they thought I needed to do to get there. If it was something that would put me in their sights I would do it. I figured out who the movers and the shakers were and got on their best side. Because unfortunately promotions aren't just ability related they're politics. And it got to the point that the whole senior exec team knew who I was and what I wanted. You need them to picture you in the role. So that when the next TL role comes up they say "Man that dude CartoonPenguin would be perfect for this."

This has been said already 1000 times in this thread and you seem to just flat out ignore it. So I'm going to type it in bold capital letters.

*GO TALK TO YOUR STORE DIRECTOR.*

That's the person you need to impress and ultimately decides your fate. If he or she doesn't give the green light, guess what you're not going anywhere doesn't matter how many ETLs say you're good to go. I met with my director multiple times as a team member.

Send them a message, ask for time when you're in for a developmental status and talk about what you want to do and why you want to do it. Doesn't even need to be in the office, you guys can walk the floor. If you can't be bothered to take that little bit of initiative you don't want the job.


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## Inboundbeast (Dec 9, 2021)

CartoonPenguin said:


> You need to understand where I’m coming from with this 19 year old, though.
> 
> When I was 19, I had been with the company for a year and I approached my old logistics ETL about leadership. She denied me on the spot for development and told me that I was too young and didn’t have enough seniority.
> 
> So when I’m told one day that 19 years old and a year of experience isn’t enough to be promoted, but then another day I see a 19 year old being promoted after only being with the company for 6-7 months, that’s undeniably going to make me feel confused and frustrated about the lack of consistency with who the company decides is right to promote. Now I just look at this 19 year old and see a reminder of what could’ve been for me.


AGAIN, and I know some of yall seen my previous comments but @CartoonPenguin you are letting your emotions get in the way of your actual success in getting your desired TL position.. Again, and idk how many of us have to tell you to listen to the advice that YOU SO DESPERATELY WANT… STOP worrying about other people! That 19 year old is not you and you being bitter about it especially up front to executive leadership is just down right idiotic. Target is a corporation - if you don’t play the game you lose. Be humble and be supportive of all your leaders if you want to succeed… even if they are god awful because they have all the say in your growth. ^^100 times it’s been said up there - promotion is POLITICAL- you may not agree but that doesn’t matter in politics

P.S. Don’t know why i even typed this out because you won’t listen anyways 😡😤🤦🏻


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