# Worth trying to promote to ETL?



## BullseyelifeBana (Jan 26, 2020)

Have been a TL for 10 years and talking with SD about promoting to ETL.  Concern, with the extra hours expected, will my pay go up enough to be worth it?  Extra responsibility and hours... I need to see a difference in my pay check.  Anyone have any insights?  Will I still keep my vacation time I have?


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## Planosss enraged (Jan 26, 2020)

You should see a bump of 15-20k a year.


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## Captain Orca (Jan 26, 2020)

If you do, good luck.  Bear in mind you'll be in with brand new out of  college inexperienced bon bons with dog stars in their eyes and loaded with Kool Aid and ready to throw anyone under the bus.  Be careful for what you wish.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jan 27, 2020)

Consider this, do you report to your original etl after 10 years?


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## BullseyelifeBana (Jan 27, 2020)

I understand what you are saying... I have had two loser etl in a row that I reported to....both quit before that decision was made for them.  Part of reason why I’m thinking of promoting, I’m tired of dealing with having etls I report to being clueless, me having to train them, and they take all the cred.  I believe I can help TL get trained and support them.  But I get what you are saying, I’m at point in my life that switching stores some no longer affects home life either.


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## allnew2 (Jan 27, 2020)

BullseyelifeBana said:


> I understand what you are saying... I have had two loser etl in a row that I reported to....both quit before that decision was made for them.  Part of reason why I’m thinking of promoting, I’m tired of dealing with having etls I report to being clueless, me having to train them, and they take all the cred.  I believe I can help TL get trained and support them.  But I get what you are saying, I’m at point in my life that switching stores some no longer affects home life either.


My Etl is a former peer of mine . It’s great to have someone on my side that comes from a position of tm , tl and now etl.


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## Far from newbie (Jan 31, 2020)

In all my Spot years Have seen hundreds of TL & ETL’s & even STL/SD come and go. Must say, without reservation, the BEST ones were ALWAYS the promoted ones that worked for it, especially the SD’s.  The outside hires never really  ‘get it’ , what it’s like to be a tm I mean.  Outside hires most of the time have an elitist attitude that does not promote positive morale.  Anyone having been in the trenches can sympathize and find solutions better than someone trapped in an ivory tower That never actually had to struggle.  After all, everything looks great on paper - it’s the execution that brings the problems to light.
    Whenever possible the internal promotion wins my vote For any open position.
i hate to hear a TL say “I had to train my exec how to do it !”


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## lifeblows10 (Jan 31, 2020)

BullseyelifeBana said:


> Have been a TL for 10 years and talking with SD about promoting to ETL.  Concern, with the extra hours expected, will my pay go up enough to be worth it?  Extra responsibility and hours... I need to see a difference in my pay check.  Anyone have any insights?  Will I still keep my vacation time I have?



From what I’ve heard, the initial pay bump leaves a bit to be desired depending on your current pay, but with the bonus opportunities and yearly reviews apparently you move up in pay quickly. I’m personally trying to get promoted into a ETL role but the district keeps insisting on hiring fresh blood.

As far as if it is worth it... it’s a gamble. I will say if you’ve been a TL for 10 years, you might not want the extra responsibility because the pay doesn’t cut it. For me, I was a TM for 7 years, and going on year 2 of being a TL - I’m already at the bottom of the pole in regards to pay so the bump should be somewhat significant. Who knows.


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## Black Sheep 214 (Jan 31, 2020)

When you consider the number of hours you may end up working as an ETL, you may have a bigger paycheck, but your compensation per hour will take a hit. Personally, the stress, politics, and expectation of kool-aid drinking wouldn’t be worth it to me.


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## Rastaman (Feb 2, 2020)

One downside to promoting to ETL is you don't have any say in your career path. If offered a transfer, you have to take it. It used to be ETLs had to transfer every 18 months, but don't know if thays the case anymore. I've also seen some ETLs transferred to a store that was an absolute disaster, and they knew they'd either quit or get fired. It's more money, but expect some 70 hour weeks and having to give up days off.


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## StyleMaven1 (Feb 2, 2020)

Rastaman said:


> One downside to promoting to ETL is you don't have any say in your career path. If offered a transfer, you have to take it. It used to be ETLs had to transfer every 18 months, but don't know if thays the case anymore. I've also seen some ETLs transferred to a store that was an absolute disaster, and they knew they'd either quit or get fired. It's more money, but expect some 70 hour weeks and having to give up days off.


This us what would keep me from wanting to take that on. The weird thing is, I know for a fact that our food ETL has been in this same store for a decade, maybe more! I would consider it if I only had to move around our district, otherwise my husband has a business that can't be moved easily. One kid in college and another in 3rd grade. Might just squat over my department until I die if old age.


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## 16yearswasted (Feb 2, 2020)

When I was first promoted from TL to ETL (I had been promoted from TM do TL), I was relocated to the bottom performing store in the district for 3 years because I was "too close to the team." After 3 years I was asked to return either because enough time had passed or (more likely) the overnight log team was in shambles...

I have mixed feelings on advice for you. Spot allowed me to build a nice house, drive a nice car, and take care of myself and my furkids. However, after working 80-100 hours a week 99% of the year for 10 years, I learned how expendable I was, especially after having something happen to me while working. 

My best advice is to do what your heart tells you. Are you passionate enough about your team and your department to work that many hours (I once figured I was making $3 something an hour). No matter what, have a backup plan and keep track of your accomplishments and reviews so that you can build a great resume and answer interview questions successfully.

Best wishes to you!!


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## SilentCrow (Feb 29, 2020)

I would say it depends what position you’ll be getting in to. For me I would say being a Log isn’t worth the stress. I’m in that role and although I do it well you’re literally blamed for everything even things beyond your control. Furthermore when the company introduces unreasonable expectations or processes you’re forced to do it and when it doesn’t work they won’t blame the process they’ll blame you. Perfect position to move up further though as if you can handle this not much will make you flinch. 

Now if it’s closing ETL, GmETL, SE ETL, Consumables ETL, etc I would say it’s a nice position to be in. Like someone said the initial pay raise is decent but not crazy, however the yearly increases bump you up fast. 

Mind you my first and only ETL position is overnight Inbound so it’s relative. I look at other positions and I can see several solutions to their problems as I believe Inbound makes you good at that. 

TL;DR It’s important to take into consideration what position you’ll be offered before committing.


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## Cinnamon2005 (Feb 29, 2020)

Our GM ETL was promoted last fall from SETL to GM ETL. He stayed in our store because we were short one ETL. His last day was yesterday. ASANTS but in our store, he had GM, Inbound, Fullfillment. He had been working  70 - 80 hours a week since October & finally had enough.


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## copycopy (Mar 25, 2020)

Everyone I have been talking to said no. It's not worth it at all.


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## Far from newbie (Apr 6, 2020)

Considering the position is only a temporary reason because we rotate positions all the time.


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## Meli4Target (May 29, 2020)

I know this post is a bit old, however I've just recently re-discovered thebreakroom again. I was promoted to ETL-HR back in January 2020. It's been challenging, and with COVID-19 happening, there has been nights where I left work feeling unaccomplished. However, I personally would not change a thing. I love what I do, and Im fortunate to have an amazing DSD & HRBP who genuinely care about the safety of the team first. 

I think its worth it. Ive been a team leader for almost 7 years, I learned a lot while being hourly, however being at an ETL level I've continued to learn something new each day. It's not all negative at Target.


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## applejaxxon (May 30, 2020)

Meli4Target said:


> I know this post is a bit old, however I've just recently re-discovered thebreakroom again. I was promoted to ETL-HR back in January 2020. It's been challenging, and with COVID-19 happening, there has been nights where I left work feeling unaccomplished. However, I personally would not change a thing. I love what I do, and Im fortunate to have an amazing DSD & HRBP who genuinely care about the safety of the team first.
> 
> I think its worth it. Ive been a team leader for almost 7 years, I learned a lot while being hourly, however being at an ETL level I've continued to learn something new each day. It's not all negative at Target.



can I ask how you got promoted to etl hr and what your daily responsibilities are?


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## Rock Lobster (May 30, 2020)

applejaxxon said:


> can I ask how you got promoted to etl hr and what your daily responsibilities are?



I'm not trying to be too mean, but when I was an ETL-LOG and ETL-GM, I would have begged to be an ETL-HR or GE.  Those are the two positions that actually got EASIER in modernization.  Food and GM became more difficult versions of their previous iterations, and I'd argue Speciality Sales stayed relatively flat (if they took breakout, they would have room to complain, but GM does that for them so half the work is done).  

DSD and HRBPs are honestly trained to keep their teams happy.  The problem is you do not really see the true sides of SDs and above, who are all out to constantly save their own jobs.  Target's culture is to be competitive and always "the best" at your role.  However, most leaders at Target aren't actually trained to solve problems or identify process issues.  When your boss at Target asks how you are improving X (X being some identified problem by the boss), your answer should always be "I am working on performance managing the person responsible for X, and will find a replacement soon."  That is how they hear success, and this is true all the way up to the top.  If you are not currently responsible for X (or related to X), then the DSD and HRBP are there to keep you as happy as possible until the new identified X is related to you.


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## TargetCravesCash (May 30, 2020)

@Rock Lobster Your analysis in paragraph 2 seems spot on and directly correlates to my own experience with Target. The internal culture seems to focus on personnel replacement in order to solve problems rather than actually training/teaching the team how to solve problems. Target places an emphasis on turnover. It blames process errors on its people rather than perhaps its own management (i.e., insufficient payroll, poorly-designed work processes, etc.). Target's solution to overcoming performance issues is almost always termination of employment rather than teaching team members to actually be successful. Why this is I don't know. But it seems deeply embedded in the culture company-wide.


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## applejaxxon (May 30, 2020)

Rock Lobster said:


> I'm not trying to be too mean, but when I was an ETL-LOG and ETL-GM, I would have begged to be an ETL-HR or GE.  Those are the two positions that actually got EASIER in modernization.  Food and GM became more difficult versions of their previous iterations, and I'd argue Speciality Sales stayed relatively flat (if they took breakout, they would have room to complain, but GM does that for them so half the work is done).
> 
> DSD and HRBPs are honestly trained to keep their teams happy.  The problem is you do not really see the true sides of SDs and above, who are all out to constantly save their own jobs.  Target's culture is to be competitive and always "the best" at your role.  However, most leaders at Target aren't actually trained to solve problems or identify process issues.  When your boss at Target asks how you are improving X (X being some identified problem by the boss), your answer should always be "I am working on performance managing the person responsible for X, and will find a replacement soon."  That is how they hear success, and this is true all the way up to the top.  If you are not currently responsible for X (or related to X), then the DSD and HRBP are there to keep you as happy as possible until the new identified X is related to you.




why is HR or GE easier? isn't GE a lot of getting yelled at by karens and pushing red cards?


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## Yetive (May 30, 2020)

applejaxxon said:


> why is HR or GE easier? isn't GE a lot of getting yelled at by karens and pushing red cards?


But only 8 hours/day, lol.  LOG/GM is going to put in some serious time depending on the store.


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## commiecorvus (May 31, 2020)

Yetive said:


> But only 8 hours/day, lol.  LOG/GM is going to put in some serious time depending on the store.




I remember the ETL LOG being at work before I got there at 5:30 and still being there long after I left.
Nicest guy out of the lot and the hardest working.
6 days a week.
Not an easy job.


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## applejaxxon (May 31, 2020)

Yetive said:


> But only 8 hours/day, lol.  LOG/GM is going to put in some serious time depending on the store.


Dang,is that for all stores?


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## Dream Baby (May 31, 2020)

Captain Orca said:


> If you do, good luck.  Bear in mind you'll be in with brand new out of  college inexperienced bon bons with dog stars in their eyes and loaded with Kool Aid and ready to throw anyone under the bus.  Be careful for what you wish.


The worst ETLs I have seen have been they ones they hire straight out of college with no work experience. That has never made any sense to me.


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## Dream Baby (May 31, 2020)

16yearswasted said:


> "too close to the team."


The "too close to the team" is the excuse why my store never makes an regular TM a TL.


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## Far from newbie (May 31, 2020)

1. Most of our TL were regular TM when they were hired.
2. All 5 of the LOG ETL’s I’ve worked with put in longer hours than ALL the other ETL’s I’ve ever worked with.
     Not sure why that is - could be because they are usually the first ones there, Early, and stay, 
     or could be because the position requires more work 
     or could be the Personality of those in that position is to ‘try to get it all done’ (which we KNOW is Impossible )
Actually, there was ONE that DIDN’T - but he didn’t last very long -  nothing was ever even half done - mess built quickly and he was gone.
3. HR seems to work the fewest hours - never seems to be in.  When in, always ‘about to leave’.


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## Yetive (May 31, 2020)

applejaxxon said:


> Dang,is that for all stores?


Most I would guess.


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## SilentCrow (Jun 24, 2020)

Rock Lobster said:


> I'm not trying to be too mean, but when I was an ETL-LOG and ETL-GM, I would have begged to be an ETL-HR or GE.  Those are the two positions that actually got EASIER in modernization.  Food and GM became more difficult versions of their previous iterations, and I'd argue Speciality Sales stayed relatively flat (if they took breakout, they would have room to complain, but GM does that for them so half the work is done).
> 
> DSD and HRBPs are honestly trained to keep their teams happy.  The problem is you do not really see the true sides of SDs and above, who are all out to constantly save their own jobs.  Target's culture is to be competitive and always "the best" at your role.  However, most leaders at Target aren't actually trained to solve problems or identify process issues.  When your boss at Target asks how you are improving X (X being some identified problem by the boss), your answer should always be "I am working on performance managing the person responsible for X, and will find a replacement soon."  That is how they hear success, and this is true all the way up to the top.  If you are not currently responsible for X (or related to X), then the DSD and HRBP are there to keep you as happy as possible until the new identified X is related to you.



100% accurate!



applejaxxon said:


> why is HR or GE easier? isn't GE a lot of getting yelled at by karens and pushing red cards?



Few years ago GE was slightly annoying because of the redcard focus would drive you insane. The company doesn’t push RedCards like they used to. People who know me on here know I used to be a GSTL. We had to end the night with 50 - 70 redcards. It was crazy. Now you do not hear anything about it really. Surveys is more important but the pressure of that is spread across all ETLs kinda.

HR in most stores I’ve been in don’t have LOD shifts or if they do it’s limited. They leave or “not in today” often. Additionally physically they don’t endure the same craziness the other ETLs deal with. HR has their own headaches don’t get me wrong but I can describe it after modernization like a guidance counselor 🤷🏽‍♂️.

If I could primarily be in a office all day my life would be fine. An ETL HR that has only ever done HR will drive you crazy. They’re the person telling you things you need to do without being able to get why it can’t be done because you’re workload drowning you.

To me GE and HR are the easiest as Rock said.

Log, GmETL, and Consumables ETL and the hardest spots imo. I also agree that Softlines ETL hasn’t gotten easier or harder because the breakdown process isn’t owned by them for some odd reason whereas Consumables has been pushed to own it all end to end.


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## MrT (Jun 24, 2020)

SilentCrow said:


> 100% accurate!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Considering in my store the we have a hr etl ge etl specialty etl and a gm etl who is in charge of logistics gm and consumables id say the gmetl is by far the hardest etl position and it isnt even close


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## SilentCrow (Jun 24, 2020)

MrT said:


> Considering in my store the we have a hr etl ge etl specialty etl and a gm etl who is in charge of logistics gm and consumables id say the gmetl is by far the hardest etl position and it isnt even close



Yeah if you’re in a store that doesn’t have a log yep absolutely agree. My store is big and we have overnight. I’m the ETL Log overnight. However I have to also run presentation overnight and flexible fulfillment overnight. It legit feels like you’re a mini Store Director. 

In your case I have been in stores like that and yep GmETL has the short end of the stick unfortunately. To be really successful though everyone should have a hand in the logistics process. You’re and am unload store right or wrong?


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## MrT (Jun 24, 2020)

SilentCrow said:


> Yeah if you’re in a store that doesn’t have a log yep absolutely agree. My store is big and we have overnight. I’m the ETL Log overnight. However I have to also run presentation overnight and flexible fulfillment overnight. It legit feels like you’re a mini Store Director.
> 
> In your case I have been in stores like that and yep GmETL has the short end of the stick unfortunately. To be really successful though everyone should have a hand in the logistics process. You’re and am unload store right or wrong?


Yes we are 4am unload team i was overnight plano and fulfillment tl and have since moved to market tl since we lost our overnight team a week ago


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## gsa4lyfe (Jun 28, 2020)

SilentCrow said:


> 100% accurate!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Recently promoted to ETL GM in a high volume that’s just under the cut off for over night, running a 4am process in a 65 million dollar store with no ETL Food or Log is super draining. Don’t get me wrong I love what I do but sometimes the 14-16 hours a day 6-7 days a week get to you. GM definitely got the short end of the stock with modernization, absorbing logistics and sales floor ETL positions into one makes sense from a planning and execution stand point but is a lot to put on one person. I think everyone should have an ETL GM and a ETL Food in my opinion.


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## allnew2 (Jun 28, 2020)

I’ll probably sound dumb now but I thought all stores have a Etl for all the departments. My store has 9 etls
Hr , se, gm1 , gm2, market, inbound , Ap, style , beauty&tech .


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## masterofalltrades (Jun 28, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I’ll probably sound dumb now but I thought all stores have a Etl for all the departments. My store has 9 etls
> Hr , se, gm1 , gm2, market, inbound , Ap, style , beauty&tech .


That is only true in super high volume stores. Hell most stores don't even have an etl for hr or ap anymore.


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## gsa4lyfe (Jun 28, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I’ll probably sound dumb now but I thought all stores have a Etl for all the departments. My store has 9 etls
> Hr , se, gm1 , gm2, market, inbound , Ap, style , beauty&tech .


Base level stores under 72 are not overnight and do not earn an inbound ETL. Base level 50M-70M only get 5-6 ETLs depending on volume, theft and store model. The average pfresh store including mine has 4. The pre mod rule of thumb was an extra ETL for every 10M dollars over 50M


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 29, 2020)

gsa4lyfe said:


> Recently promoted to ETL GM in a high volume that’s just under the cut off for over night, running a 4am process in a 65 million dollar store with no ETL Food or Log is super draining. Don’t get me wrong I love what I do but sometimes the 14-16 hours a day 6-7 days a week get to you. GM definitely got the short end of the stock with modernization, absorbing logistics and sales floor ETL positions into one makes sense from a planning and execution stand point but is a lot to put on one person. I think everyone should have an ETL GM and a ETL Food in my opinion.


Congrats on the promotion. You earned it. Don't forget what Rock Lobster said.


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## allnew2 (Jun 29, 2020)

gsa4lyfe said:


> Base level stores under 72 are not overnight and do not earn an inbound ETL. Base level 50M-70M only get 5-6 ETLs depending on volume, theft and store model. The average pfresh store including mine has 4. The pre mod rule of thumb was an extra ETL for every 10M dollars over 50M


I’m 90mil+ and no longer overnight for over a year now


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## buliSBI (Jun 29, 2020)

Back in the day....I rarely saw a TL get promoted to ETL.  Most ETLs were recruited straight from Business schools or had previous retail management experience outside of Target.  I saw maybe 1-2 TLs get promoted to ETLdirectly. Others tried to move up as Senior Team Leads but were never recognized properly.


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## MrT (Jun 29, 2020)

I find it the complete opposite now.  I saw so many tl-> srtl-> etl promotions in my time. Now all i see are target interns and outside people with huge experience resumes


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## StyleMaven1 (Jun 29, 2020)

masterofalltrades said:


> That is only true in super high volume stores. Hell most stores don't even have an etl for hr or ap anymore.


Mine is an old school super in a mid sized town, 42 mil last year. HRETL, GM, Specialty, Food and GE are what we have. There are 5 other Targets in the county, various 1 other super and one small enough that they just have a Specialty Sales TL, no ETL.


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## gsa4lyfe (Jun 30, 2020)

allnew2 said:


> I’m 90mil+ and no longer overnight for over a year now


I guess they moved the cut off then again. We still have two 90M dollar stores in our group that are overnight but definitely a store my store basis, based off traffic volume throughout the day


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## SilentCrow (Jul 1, 2020)

gsa4lyfe said:


> Recently promoted to ETL GM in a high volume that’s just under the cut off for over night, running a 4am process in a 65 million dollar store with no ETL Food or Log is super draining. Don’t get me wrong I love what I do but sometimes the 14-16 hours a day 6-7 days a week get to you. GM definitely got the short end of the stock with modernization, absorbing logistics and sales floor ETL positions into one makes sense from a planning and execution stand point but is a lot to put on one person. I think everyone should have an ETL GM and a ETL Food in my opinion.



The problem with this is the TLs are supposed to help with the push in their departments. The inbound team pushing in their areas are supposed to be looked at like their DBO pushers. Problem is most TLs don’t do that or they’re swamped with other workload too.

Like you said on paper it sounds great. Sounds like a united front but in practice if every single person isn’t on the same page then it’ll crumble super fast.

It’s possible but one ETL can get everyone on the same page alone. That’s a store culture thing. I know it’s possible because a store in my area unloaded 4 trucks during the AM...crazy.

Unnecessary stress though.


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## WoodlandCreature (Jul 10, 2020)

My last store had 1 ETL. They covered all of FB/GM/LOG. 
(The Specialty/Apparel TL and the SE TL reported directly to the SD.) 

In 2 years, we had 4 different ETLs pass through that role. 


I've never been an ETL, myself, but I've held the equivalent position at a nearly $100M Walmart. 
50-60 hours a week was pretty normal, with a peak of 70 around the holidays. It was about $10k more than what I now make at Target as a TL... but that's $10k a year, for an extra 10-30 hours of work per week. 

And you spend all of those hours trying to do your job, do the job of your TMs, and probably some of your boss's job, all the while listening to every one of your TM's bitch and complain about how hard it is to put merchandise on a shelf and call _you_ lazy for not doing it for them... All without them realizing that when they left the job half-done at the end of their shift, and found that it was finished the next morning when they came in, that it was _you_ that finished it for them; because _it's not optional for you_. The work _needs_ to get done. 
You know that you _should_ coach them for their performance, that's what the company says, but you also know that if they quit, training a new employee is going to make everything even harder. Plus, they might not be any better. Better the devil you know than the one you don't! So you just keep going, trying to keep every department afloat... And you're slowly withdrawing into yourself because listening to everyone's negativity just makes the day even harder. Your wife wonders why you always seem so sad and tired on your day off, but you just give her some vague answer because you can't stand to think about work any more than you have to. Why are you doing this?
You finally decide that the paycheck isn't worth the toll it's taking, and you take a 20k pay-cut to work a 40-hours-a-week job that you actually enjoy. Your days off become times of fun, instead of just recovery. You punch out at the end of the day and look forward to the next day. And you do everything you can to help support your managers, because you know that they're not lazy, they're just beaten. 

Anyhoo.... Target doesn't seem nearly as bad as Walmart, though. So YMMV!


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## happygoth (Jul 10, 2020)

BearInTheWoods said:


> My last store had 1 ETL. They covered all of FB/GM/LOG.
> (The Specialty/Apparel TL and the SE TL reported directly to the SD.)
> 
> In 2 years, we had 4 different ETLs pass through that role.
> ...


Very relatable! I lasted a year on salary at my last job, two different positions. Security wasn't too bad, I maybe put in 45-50 hours a week and I enjoyed the job, but dealing with District sucked. The second position was equivalent to plano and pricing at Target, and it sucked. 50-60 hours a week and lots of stress. No work/life balance.


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## SilentCrow (Jul 10, 2020)

Dream Baby said:


> The worst ETLs I have seen have been they ones they hire straight out of college with no work experience. That has never made any sense to me.



Recently I’ve seen some external hires for ETL that are doing a terrible job.


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## Unleashed Dog (Jul 23, 2020)

Seems my district has strayed a bit from hiring externally because it hasn’t really worked out. Specially in regards to GM ETL’s.

I think what  brings out the real worth on wether one takes on the role or not depends on stuff like the district your in, the volume of the stores and their history. Half of my district seems to be operationally solid and our District guy is fair and actually cares. Because of that I’m considering going into the role someday.


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## Mudbones123 (Jun 12, 2021)

If you promote from TL to ETL what happens to your vacation saved up?


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## Coqui (Jun 13, 2021)

Not sure if it’s a California thing but if you promote from TL to ETL, your vacation time is paid out to you.


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