# leadership?



## softlineszoner10 (Jun 22, 2011)

Ok so lately when I close and am in hl, and the tl is in sl. Im put as "leader" of hl zone. Which I dont mind at all. Except for there is select few people who you can tell 20 times how to do something and they wont listen. Ive realised talking to team leads, just as "leadership tips" or w.e has helped so I figgured I would try this.

By people I mean people who have been called into the tsc 100 times and called coperate to whine. And I have a decent relationship with management so at some pointduring the night they come to ask how theyre doing. I even said once I feel like I'm tatteling, but I'm not going to lie either.

I just feel like I've beaten myself silly with a brick. Theyre have been new team member who started after and complain about said person. 

So far Ive been told "you can only do what you can do and thats it, other people will do what they will and you can't control that" 

and Would them putting me as "leader" like this be any indication of them possibly looking at me as a tl? or no?


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 22, 2011)

That sl tl needs to get off carpet & walk hl to on zoning, cafs & tm's. Also, the lod should be doing the same thing too. Those tm's who arent listening to you, they will be coached soon. 
One way to resolve the issue, do exactly what you told to do by tl or lod. Zone this area, help guests, go for backup, do cafs & your reshop. See what happens outside of your area. Don't stress yourself out!
Hopefully, your tl or lod will notice that other tm's are missing calls, on cell phones, not coming for backup, etc.
No hl tl's at night at my store happens twice a week.
Hang in there!
Here is a link on how to become a tl:
http://www.thebreakroom.us/showthread.php?t=61


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## SrTLRep (Jun 22, 2011)

I just want to add that a lot of times in our store we will give a team member additional responsibilities if we are thinking they are TL "material" or they have asked for it. We always talk to them first though, we don't just do it. 

And you can only do what you can do. HLMaster said it..Don't stress yourself out!


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 22, 2011)

In our store its different. We give low potential tms tasks that we know they cant complete so we can coach them out and then term them. If you are leadership potential then a tl would have taken you as a mentee. If nobody has, they may be setting you up to fail.


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## stupid rules (Jun 22, 2011)

No they are not looking at you as being a TL. They simply see you as being the most competent out of the bunch (though that is not to imply you are a rockstar, sometimes we have to pick the smallest and least smelly turd). You previously stated you have an attitude with the job itself and that you were questioned about the attitude by the leadership team in your store and if I can catch it from a simple forum post you better damn well believe the leadership in your stores knows it.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 22, 2011)

Wow guys great fricken way to treat a fellow team member... You two sound like a$$holes.... NOP I'm fairly certain that's illegal under the fair business practices... and Stupid rules.... You just sound like a jerk....

How about some positive and constructive help/criticism like what hlm offered rather than being jerks


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 22, 2011)

I thought I did?


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## EvanM07 (Jun 22, 2011)

I know you did I was pointing out that you did in fact offer something good As opposed to what they had said


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## EvanM07 (Jun 22, 2011)

Basically saying you did a good job and they effed up lol


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 22, 2011)

Sorry for the confusion. What I am suggesting to the Op, is offering them a solution to the situation.  We have a combo of tm's at my store, good, weak & bad tm's. There is hope for my folks. Just make sure they train correctly & given a team goal to complete the task. But with no hl present, it can hard to do. That is why the sl tl & lod need to step up to the plate. I got a new stl & they are taking no prisoners.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 22, 2011)

Yeah I know what you meant HLM... I was simply pointing out that NOP and Stupid Rules were being jerks to the op.... I was commending you for being positive to him and you deserve a GTC for that


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 22, 2011)

No problem.
We are here to teach, learn & vent some.


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## Barcode (Jun 22, 2011)

@softlineszoner

I already know you have a foul attitude at work from the previous thread but I'll try and be civil here.

TMs are NOT supposed to "give orders" to other TMs, that would be a TL's job. Instead you can make "requests", and say something like "Hey _____, would you be able to ______?" instead of "Hey __________ I need you to __________."

Treating your fellow TMs with respect and having a good work ethic is the best way to gain your TL's attention.


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 23, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> Wow guys great fricken way to treat a fellow team member... You two sound like a$$holes.... NOP I'm fairly certain that's illegal under the fair business practices... and Stupid rules.... You just sound like a jerk....
> 
> How about some positive and constructive help/criticism like what hlm offered rather than being jerks



so then you're familiar with the conversations that occur during the exec meetings?


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## EvanM07 (Jun 23, 2011)

No I've got no idea what goes on during an exec meeting nor do I give a flying monkeys anus. What I'm saying is it's ILLEGAL for an employer to PURPOSELY give an employee tasks in which they know the employee cannot complete so that they can fire them.... I'd like to know what store you work at so that I can report you and the store leadership to the better business bureau and to corporate.....


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 23, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> No I've got no idea what goes on during an exec meeting nor do I give a flying monkeys anus. What I'm saying is it's ILLEGAL for an employer to PURPOSELY give an employee tasks in which they know the employee cannot complete so that they can fire them.... I'd like to know what store you work at so that I can report you and the store leadership to the better business bureau and to corporate.....


 
I've worked in two other states and its been like that at those stores as well. Just saying if you've never been to those meetings then you can't rule out it isn't happening at your store too.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 23, 2011)

That may be but it's still illegal and you know it. That's why I am going to do what I can to report this issue.


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## Barcode (Jun 23, 2011)

If they're trying to get rid of somebody, maybe its that "somebody" that is the problem and not spot.

Just sayin'


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## EvanM07 (Jun 23, 2011)

He ne'er mentioned people who misbehaved, acted inappropriately, or were not doing the job. He simply stated "low potential" team members. Just because someone isn't a top performer and doesn't have high potential for leadership does not mean under any circumstance is it alright to do what you can to terminate said employee...


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 23, 2011)

It could be poor performance. You are both correct.


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## Barcode (Jun 23, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> He ne'er mentioned people who misbehaved, acted inappropriately, or were not doing the job. He simply stated "low potential" team members. Just because someone isn't a top performer and doesn't have high potential for leadership does not mean under any circumstance is it alright to do what you can to terminate said employee...



If they are low potential and Target wants to get rid of them, that is perfectly in their right. There are tons of hard working people who want jobs right now, and Target won't have a hard time replacing lazy TMs.

We used to have a lazy Cart Attendant, and when he showed no signs of trying to improve, I ratted him out to our former-GSTL. She coached him on his poor performance, then eventually he got caught taking a 50 minute lunch and they instantly termed him. Now we have a much more ethical, pleasant, and hardworking CA that takes the job seriously. Good trade imo.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 24, 2011)

Imerzan said:


> If they are low potential and Target wants to get rid of them, that is perfectly in their right. There are tons of hard working people who want jobs right now, and Target won't have a hard time replacing lazy TMs.
> 
> We used to have a lazy Cart Attendant, and when he showed no signs of trying to improve, I ratted him out to our former-GSTL. She coached him on his poor performance, then eventually he got caught taking a 50 minute lunch and they instantly termed him. Now we have a much more ethical, pleasant, and hardworking CA that takes the job seriously. Good trade imo.




That's perfectly understandable. He on his own proved he needed to be fired. What NOP has said is they specifically give team members a task that they know that can't complete either due to incompetence or improper training so that they have a reason to fire them. That my friend is illegal and unethical. And will be promptly reported to the proper authorities....


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## Softlines Owns My Soul (Jun 24, 2011)

At my store you pretty much have to show no effort/curse someone out/steal in order to get termed if you're a sales floor team member.  It's an entry level position, not every TM is going to have TL or ETL potential.  There's a difference between someone who is giving an effort and not doing well (they should receive additional training) and someone who is not giving an effort.  This can be ascertained through consistent monitoring of the TM.


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## Barcode (Jun 24, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> That's perfectly understandable. He on his own proved he needed to be fired. What NOP has said is they specifically give team members a task that they know that can't complete either due to incompetence or improper training so that they have a reason to fire them. That my friend is illegal and unethical. And will be promptly reported to the proper authorities....



Hard to prove if they were setting up the TM to fail or not. The work they set the TM up for could be well intentioned for all we know.

All of the people termed at my store deserved it one way or another, so I apologize if I'm skeptical of people criticizing Target for terminating them/coworkers


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## EvanM07 (Jun 24, 2011)

Imerzan said:


> Hard to prove if they were setting up the TM to fail or not. The work they set the TM up for could be well intentioned for all we know.
> 
> All of the people termed at my store deserved it one way or another, so I apologize if I'm skeptical of people criticizing Target for terminating them/coworkers



I known would be hard to prove in some cases but according to a member of this forum named NOP not our problem he stated that they PURPOSELY GIVE LOW POTENTIAL TEAM MEMBERS TASKS WHICH THEY KNOW THEY CANNOT COMPLETE FOR THE PURPOSE OF TERMINATION. Can I not spell that out any more cleary for you???


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## EvanM07 (Jun 24, 2011)

Unless he isn't in leadership like he has lead me to believe ten yea it could be speculation. But since he has said it as if he is a leader himself who does it himself then I have reason to believe it to be true and therefore Target Executives and other leaders are committing illegal labor acts and should be punished. As should the whole company.


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## Barcode (Jun 24, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> I known would be hard to prove in some cases but according to a member of this forum named NOP not our problem he stated that they PURPOSELY GIVE LOW POTENTIAL TEAM MEMBERS TASKS WHICH THEY KNOW THEY CANNOT COMPLETE FOR THE PURPOSE OF TERMINATION. Can I not spell that out any more cleary for you???



How can a team member know what they are purposely doing? Merely hearsay.

Not trying to create an argument here, just telling it how it is. they may be breaking labor laws, or they may not, we dont know.


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## Formina Sage (Jun 24, 2011)

What is meant by "giving a tm tasks they know they cannot complete"?

Is this a case of assigning responsibilities outside their core roles, or simply overestimating the TM's knowledge of a certain process?

An ETL/TL could ask a TM to set a salesplanner for them, and if the TM didn't actually know how to do so, it would be *the TM's responsibility* to say so to that higher-up. The higher-up may not be in the wrong if they simply aren't aware that the TM hasn't been trained in setting endcaps.

Imerzan has a point: there is no legal basis for the accusation that an exec or team lead has assigned you work that they/you know you can't carry out, with the intention of terming you for incompetence/insubordination. The only way this could work is if there was some sort of violation of a Disabled Persons' Workplace rights law, say if you were in a wheelchair and a TL asked you to perform heavy lifting or something of that sort. Obviously there is a problem there.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

Ok but what you both obviously don't understand is what NOP has said.... Maybe looking back at his first post in the thread might open your eyes? Or do I actually have to go quote it?


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

NOP not our problem said:


> In our store its different. *We give low potential tms tasks that we know they cant complete so we can coach them out and then term them.* If you are leadership potential then a tl would have taken you as a mentee. If nobody has, they may be setting you up to fail.




I even put it in bold for you all to read.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

And THAT ^^^^ up there.... That *BOLD* sentence.... That is illegal and unethical. If that is truly going on then something needs to be done..... Sheesh....


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## Softlines Owns My Soul (Jun 25, 2011)

Evan could you please stop double and triple posting?


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

Uh what? Seriously was that necessary? If you don't  have anything to contribute to the conversation, why post? My posts are relavent to the topic and I'm sorry that I didn't think of everything I wanted to say in one single post. Is that a crime?

Also does it cause you pain, stress, agony if I double or triple post? Like seriously?


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 25, 2011)

By using the edit or quote(+) button, you can put multi quotes into one post. That way, others who new or late into the conversation know the details.
Now back on topic.


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## MisterLogistics (Jun 25, 2011)

Softlines Owns My Soul said:


> Evan could you please stop double and triple posting?


Seriously? It's 2011, people have been complaining about the dreaded "double post" for over a decade. Get over it.


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 25, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> He ne'er mentioned people who misbehaved, acted inappropriately, or were not doing the job. He simply stated "low potential" team members. Just because someone isn't a top performer and doesn't have high potential for leadership does not mean under any circumstance is it alright to do what you can to terminate said employee...



I would classify people who misbehaved, acted inappropriately, or not doing their job as low potential. wouldn't you?


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 25, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> That's perfectly understandable. He on his own proved he needed to be fired. What NOP has said is they specifically give team members a task that they know that can't complete either due to incompetence or improper training so that they have a reason to fire them. That my friend is illegal and unethical. And will be promptly reported to the proper authorities....



Never said a thing about improper training, did I? Must have missed that one. If a tm signs off a learning plan they are officially accountable for everything in it once they signed it, if you cant do something in it and you're assigned to it, you will be documented. If you didnt know how or it wasnt clear then you should have asked before you signed.


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 25, 2011)

No mas. Obtener sobre él.


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## SrTLRep (Jun 25, 2011)

NOP not our problem said:


> No mas. Obtener sobre él.



I have no idea what that means 

Anywho..

It is entirely possible to assign a team member tasks that you know they cannot complete for the purposes of coaching them out the door. I consider it unethical myself and if a team member is truly low performing, unnecessary because you should have already been working with them. 

Low performers and low potential are 2 different things first of all. Low potential means they do not have the potiental to be anything more than they already are, a team member. Every workplace has these folks but it does not mean they need to be shown the door as long as they are fulfilling their core roles. Low performers, on the other hand, do not fulfill their core roles satisfactorily. These folks should be coached..however..

Coaching is not meant for the purpose of terming people. If it was, we wouldn't call it coaching, we would call it writing you up. Coaching is for the purpose of clueing a TM in to the fact that they are not performing to their core roles, that you are aware of it, what the expectation for them is in the future. It is an opportunity for them to improve. One that they deserve. 

If a team member chooses not to act on the feedback they are given and continues to fail meeting expectations that is when the coaching should start escalating into a CCA (Counseling and Corrective Action). 

As a team leader, especially as senior, it is my job to make sure I give TM's every opportunity to succeed. That is what coaching is about. Is there a limit? Absolutely, you can only bang your head against the wall for so long, but long before that limit is reached every avenue should be explored to help these TM's succeed. 

That being said, I want to remind everyone that delivery is everything. The way you say it can determine the direction a conversation takes. There is no reason to be confrontational here, we can all learn from each other if we remember that challenging each other is okay and educating each other is great, but being confrontational does nothing but make people defensive and could close the door to making change. 

*taking my SrTL hat off*

Sorry for the long post


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 25, 2011)

Round of applause to you srtlrep


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 25, 2011)

Great answer, srTlrep!


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## stupid rules (Jun 25, 2011)

You keep saying it is illegal to give someone a task you know they can not perform. Will you please show me what federal law that is breaking.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 25, 2011)

By chance, have you read bp? I believe in giving tm's multi chances. Some folks fail on their own accord & others don't.


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## Softlines Owns My Soul (Jun 25, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> Uh what? Seriously was that necessary? If you don't  have anything to contribute to the conversation, why post? My posts are relavent to the topic and I'm sorry that I didn't think of everything I wanted to say in one single post. Is that a crime?
> 
> Also does it cause you pain, stress, agony if I double or triple post? Like seriously?



You're incredibly rude.  Also the fact that you think you can police a TM who is saying things over the internet is laughable, that combined with the fact you can't even stop double and triple posting shows you lack the ability to understand how the internet works.  You're not going to find this guy, and if you did you'll never be able to prove this is going on... You're not on the clock dude, give it up internet police.



Hardlinesmaster said:


> By using the edit or quote(+) button, you can put multi quotes into one post. That way, others who new or late into the conversation know the details.
> Now back on topic.



Thank you.  It's not hard.  It makes it hard to follow a conversation when one person occupies half the page with his posts which could have been two posts.



MisterLogistics said:


> Seriously? It's 2011, people have been complaining about the dreaded "double post" for over a decade. Get over it.



Drop the attitude.


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## MisterLogistics (Jun 25, 2011)

Softlines Owns My Soul said:
			
		

> You're incredibly rude.  Also the fact that you think you can police a TM who is saying things over the internet is laughable, that combined with the fact you can't even stop double and triple posting shows you lack the ability to understand how the internet works.  You're not going to find this guy, and if you did you'll never be able to prove this is going on... You're not on the clock dude, give it up internet police.


Do you realise the irony in telling someone they're not the internet police, and then telling them they don't know "how the internet works"? Are _you_ the internet police? Oh please, tell us how to use the internet correctly, Mr. Internet Officer.



			
				Softlines Owns My Soul said:
			
		

> Drop the attitude.


Do you realise the irony in telling someone to "drop the attitude", with a similar attitude you think I have?

But seriously, double posts have been happening on the internet for OVER 10 YEARS. It's not hard not to do them, but it's also not hard, to ignore any annoyance they might cause, and not care about them.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 25, 2011)

On double posting, it could be some folks were unable to figure out how to correct the 2nd posting. That's why I try to explain in simple terms. My mom loves me because I make it simple & easy to do.
Now back on topic.


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## Formina Sage (Jun 25, 2011)




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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 25, 2011)

I love Picard!!!!!


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

Softlines owns my soul.... You're a DOUCHE. I know how the frigging Internet works. Probably use it more than you have. You're just a whiney little girl looking for an excuse to b**ch and complain about whatever you can. I made multiple posts e sued I didn't FEEL like going back and editing a post to add more info. Plus another post holds more weight and shows that the person had yet another thing to say. And the fact that t shows that someone edited a post can make them look like they're incompetent and that their first post was full of mistakes and that they had to go back and fix them. 

And back tothe topic at hand.... I know KNOW the federal or state laws prohibiting it, but I sure as hell know it exists somewhere under the federal labor laws and one or two of the fair labor acts out there. I don't care what any of you spineless kids think. If there is something wrong going on should there not be something done about it? Are we seriously supposed to lay back and take it? I don't think so. That's the lazy b*tch way to go about it. Man up and get something accomplished rather than sittinghere and letting it happen. I've seen this gonon at my store a few tomes and noe that I hear from NOP that it's happened at his and others, well then something needs to be done. But I can see you are all complacent with the BS that happens around you and only care Bout your damn selves. You don't care about the innocent employee who is just there to do some work and get a paycheck. Not everyone who works for Target wants to be a TL or ETL, and should not be punished for that. Just cause they shoe low POTENTIAL doesn't mean they should be termed. And I know you all keep ranting on about how I'm wrong with what I'm saying BUT IM NOT! I know what I am talking about. Seen it happen and now know it's happening elsewhere. So please... PLEASE stop telling me I'm WRONG because I'm NOT.


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 25, 2011)

Now. Take a deep breath, please. Things can be different outside of ap. Sl owns by soul is cool. Please respect that. Follow bp & "hope" they are the best options for new tm's. Other workcenters could have a different perspective on your workcenter.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Now. Take a deep breath, please. Things can be different outside of ap. Sl owns by soul is cool. Please respect that. Follow bp & "hope" they are the best options for new tm's. Other workcenters could have a different perspective on your workcenter.



Obviously he isn't THAT cool if he is gonna sit there and INSULT me.....

And it's not in AP that I have seen this done. It's with sales floor and other workcenters. And I HATE AP/TPS. Target assets protection is a frigging joke which is why I'm leaving it next month...


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 25, 2011)

Ap has alot of opps for you. It sounds stl is doing a ae09 at your store. Besides, getting spot on your resume' can lead to opps outside of spot.


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## stupid rules (Jun 25, 2011)

Please find the law that says we are not able to give tasks to team members they can not accomplish, oh grow up and stop taking everything so personal.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

Stupid rules... ************ YOU. No employer can give an employee a task they cannot complete FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING THEM FIRED!!!!


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## stupid rules (Jun 25, 2011)

Please provide proof to this.


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## Formina Sage (Jun 25, 2011)

Here's the deal: If you can't meet the job requirements in the Core Roles, they can term you. If you can't do something that they're asking you to do, they _should_ coach you and help you develop, but they have the right to terminate your employment. It can be decided that a TM is "low-potential" within the first 90 days of your employment (the learning period). During this 90 day period, you can be termed for being an unsatisfactory team member, whether it seems fair or not. You're on thin ice for that entire 90 day period, and any screw-up or incompetence can cause you to be termed.

The handbook only says "No supervisor may require or imply that you should act in an unethical or dishonest manner." There is no mention of anything regarding what type of work your supervisor can assign you, _provided it's in your Core Roles_.

NOP not our problem made the situation a little vague, so it's not fair to jump to conclusions about whether or not it's legal. Unethical? It certainly seems that way, but *it's not breaking any federal or state laws as far as we can tell with the information given to us*.

The bottom line is, YOU chose to work for this multinational corporation. YOU signed the agreement to be bound by Target's terms of employment. Target reserves the right to terminate any employee that does not meet their standards of employment. 

If they think you should be termed, you will be termed.

EvanM07, if you have any compelling evidence that such practices are illegal, please feel free to post them. If you post any more unconstructive, inflammatory remarks, I'm suspending you.


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## FrontEndKnowItAll (Jun 25, 2011)

Thank you Formania Sheriff for laying down the law!!


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## Bullseye Flow TM (Jun 25, 2011)

I miss a day of reading the forums & look what I missed!   Need some tylonol, FS?


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

Whatever.... Ur all fkin brainwashed.... Try opening your eyes.... I just contacted my families lawyer and he did say that if someone were fired by target because they were given a task they couldn't complete that target can be sued for it. I hate anyone who stands up for big business. I don't support t. Sure I work for the ************ty company butthats because they were the only ones to call me back about an application when I desperately needed a job. This company is a joke. And I don't understand why so many of it's employees support it. Almost EVERYONE at my store hates target and want toget out but because this county's economy is so crappy they can't get jobs elsewhere. 


So... Whatever I'm done with this topic. If you feel suspedning me is a good idea after this then go for it. It shows poor judgement in your part by silencing someone who is outspoken and then you would be just like every other big corporate type of person. Just taking their side and doing what try always do, hold someone down and tryto deny them their first amendment right. Whatever. I don't care anymore. Hopefully none of you fall victim to targets evil ways but you might so good luck.


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## The Mule (Jun 25, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> ... Just taking their side and doing what try always do, hold someone down and tryto deny them their *first amendment right.*


(emphasis mine)

Just have to chime in on this one, it's a sticking point with me. 1st amendment rights only apply between a citizen and a government body. They *DO NOT*(generally) apply between private parties.


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## EvanM07 (Jun 25, 2011)

The Mule said:


> (emphasis mine)
> 
> Just have to chime in on this one, it's a sticking point with me. 1st amendment rights only apply between a citizen and a government body. They *DO NOT*(generally) apply between private parties.



Actually yes it does. No one person has the right to impede my right to freedom of speech.


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## FrontEndKnowItAll (Jun 25, 2011)

Okay Evan, here's what I think we are all thinking. Giving TMs tasks that we KNOW they cannot complete for the purpose of terming them is unethical and something that I would like to believe does not happen, illegal is questionable part. But I support your argument that it should not be happening.

Do we all LOVE target, yes and no. I think that most all of us like our jobs, at least most of the time. Do we love corporate, different question! Many of us think that some of corp's requests, expectations, mandates, policies, etc. are laughable since they are so far removed from the store level. Are there things I would change? yes, but I wouldn't say that I hate the company that I work for. 

And what  everyone is angry about, not just EvanM07, but also SL owns my soul, NOP not our problem, and others have turned this thread into a toxic argument and turned this so personal. This forum is for us to learn and this topic is pertinent to that mission, however, the style in which this thread has gone is not doing anyone here any good.

We are here to vent, learn, and discuss work-related policies, and practices. We are not here to insult and attack each other!


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## The Mule (Jun 25, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> Actually yes it does. No one person has the right to impede my right to freedom of speech.



I'll be the first to defend your right to speak your mind. One's right to express themselves is a fundamental basis for the creation of this country. I even agree to an extent to your disdain towards corporations as a whole and their current overpowering involvement in our lives.

However, just because you have a right to say *whatever* you want does not give you a right to say it *wherever* you want. Furthermore, there are certain limitations in place on the 1st amendment for the benefit of society. You do not have the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, to bear false witness in a courtroom, to libel someone's business, to slander someone's character, etc... There is established law and cases in every court in the country that will show that the freedoms of the 1st amendment are not absolute. Formina Sage holds exclusive rights to these forums and can censor whoever they so choose for whatever reasons they see fit. At no time did you ever enter into an agreement expressly stating your right to post anything you wanted and as such have no expectation to do so. I've run a multi-national forum before with over 4,000 members and all the legal situations that it encompasses. I don't claim to be an expert at anything here, but I do have plenty of practical experience.


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## Formina Sage (Jun 25, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> Wow guys great fricken way to treat a fellow team member... *You two sound like a$$holes*.... NOP I'm fairly certain that's illegal under the fair business practices... and Stupid rules.... *You just sound like a jerk*....
> 
> How about some positive and constructive help/criticism like what hlm offered *rather than being jerks*





EvanM07 said:


> No I've got no idea what goes on during an exec meeting *nor do I give a flying monkeys anus*. What I'm saying is it's ILLEGAL for an employer to PURPOSELY give an employee tasks in which they know the employee cannot complete so that they can fire them.... I'd like to know what store you work at so that I can report you and the store leadership to the better business bureau and to corporate.....





EvanM07 said:


> Softlines owns my soul.... *You're a DOUCHE*. I know how the frigging Internet works. Probably use it more than you have. *You're just a whiney little girl looking for an excuse to b**ch and complain about whatever you can.* I made multiple posts e sued I didn't FEEL like going back and editing a post to add more info. Plus another post holds more weight and shows that the person had yet another thing to say. And the fact that t shows that someone edited a post can make them look like they're incompetent and that their first post was full of mistakes and that they had to go back and fix them.
> 
> And back tothe topic at hand.... I know KNOW the federal or state laws prohibiting it, but I sure as hell know it exists somewhere under the federal labor laws and one or two of the fair labor acts out there. *I don't care what any of you spineless kids think*. If there is something wrong going on should there not be something done about it? *Are we seriously supposed to lay back and take it* _(the original post was more profane)_? I don't think so. *That's the lazy b*tch way to go about it*. *Man up* _(More edited-out profanity)_ and get something accomplished rather than sittinghere and letting it happen. I've seen this gonon at my store a few tomes and noe that I hear from NOP that it's happened at his and others, well then something needs to be done. *But I can see you are all complacent with the BS that happens around you and only care Bout your damn selves*. You don't care about the innocent employee who is just there to do some work and get a paycheck. Not everyone who works for Target wants to be a TL or ETL, and should not be punished for that. Just cause they shoe low POTENTIAL doesn't mean they should be termed. And I know you all keep ranting on about how I'm wrong with what I'm saying BUT IM NOT! I know what I am talking about. Seen it happen and now know it's happening elsewhere. So please... PLEASE stop telling me I'm WRONG because I'm NOT.





EvanM07 said:


> Stupid rules... ************* YOU*. No employer can give an employee a task they cannot complete FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING THEM FIRED!!!!





EvanM07 said:


> Whatever.... *Ur all fkin brainwashed*.... Try opening your eyes.... I just contacted my families lawyer and he did say that if someone were fired by target because they were given a task they couldn't complete that target can be sued for it. I hate anyone who stands up for big business. I don't support t. *Sure I work for the ************ty company* butthats because they were the only ones to call me back about an application when I desperately needed a job. This company is a joke. And I don't understand why so many of it's employees support it. Almost EVERYONE at my store hates target and want toget out but because this county's economy is so crappy they can't get jobs elsewhere.
> 
> 
> So... Whatever I'm done with this topic. If you feel suspedning me is a good idea after this then go for it. It shows poor judgement in your part by silencing someone who is outspoken and then you would be just like every other big corporate type of person. Just taking their side and doing what try always do, hold someone down and tryto deny them their first amendment right. Whatever. I don't care anymore. Hopefully none of you fall victim to targets evil ways but you might so good luck.




Protip: I don't suspend people for speaking their minds - what do you think this website is for? I do think that it is entirely possible to speak your mind without resorting to infantile, needless profanities.


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## ISIS639 (Jun 25, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> Whatever.... Ur all fkin brainwashed.... Try opening your eyes.... I just contacted my families lawyer and he did say that if someone were fired by target because they were given a task they couldn't complete that target can be sued for it. I hate anyone who stands up for big business. I don't support t. Sure I work for the ************ty company butthats because they were the only ones to call me back about an application when I desperately needed a job. This company is a joke. And I don't understand why so many of it's employees support it. Almost EVERYONE at my store hates target and want toget out but because this county's economy is so crappy they can't get jobs elsewhere.
> 
> 
> So... Whatever I'm done with this topic. If you feel suspedning me is a good idea after this then go for it. It shows poor judgement in your part by silencing someone who is outspoken and then you would be just like every other big corporate type of person. Just taking their side and doing what try always do, hold someone down and tryto deny them their first amendment right. Whatever. I don't care anymore. Hopefully none of you fall victim to targets evil ways but you might so good luck.




Do you realize that about half the people who have commented on this topic have agreed that NOP's practice is wrong?  I don't know why you seem to be arguing with everyone b/c most people would be on your side if you would back up a bit. 

NOP was not specific on what was meant by the practice of giving people tasks they can not complete. As it was stated, if this meant giving them tasks they have been trained on and still cannot perform adequately, then Target probably could not be sued.  If he means they are giving TMs the task of mapping out and setting SPLs for all of domestics while making sure its signed properly, yeah, that might be getting into a gray area. But right now, you don't know what he meant.  He might have been exaggerating the situation for emphasis.  

Calm down.  Nothing that is said on here is going to end up in court anyway.  There are more important soapboxes you can jump on closer to home, I'm sure.


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## Softlines Owns My Soul (Jun 26, 2011)

Thank you Formina.  Evan is extremely rude and has lodged several personal insults my way.

Also to misterlogistics, I have no idea why you were so keen on defending someone who has done nothing but act inappropriately on this site. He has been cursing and making a fuss.


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## commiecorvus (Jun 26, 2011)

*EVAN*
Be cool.
We're going to be like a bunch of Fonzies here. And what is Fonzie like?
Correctemundo, he's cool.
So be cool.


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 26, 2011)

EvanM07 said:


> Stupid rules... ************ YOU. No employer can give an employee a task they cannot complete FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING THEM FIRED!!!!



Once a team member signs off on their learning plan they become accountable for everything in it. I would never ask a sf tm to do lets say a manual auto of paper, you know why I wouldn't ask? Because it wasn't on their learning plan. Seems you may have missed the point here. 

One more thing, when you quit your rent-a-cop job at target consider deleting your account for this forum.


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## Formina Sage (Jun 26, 2011)

[mod]Let's get this back on topic, or I'll have to close the thread.[/mod]


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## commiecorvus (Jun 26, 2011)

It's called playing to someone's weaknesses.
It's only leadership to those folks who are just out of college and don't understand that Machiavelli wrote the The Prince as a parody.
So WM (Wannabe Machiavelli) has a low performer who has been working for him for while and a new go getter comes on board.
WM starts assigning the LP only the jobs he knows LP hates and is does not do well with the caveat that "they've been here long enough, they should know how to do it, no coaching should be needed by now."
WM assigns gogetter to LP a couple of times to show him how not to do the job.
TA da leadership.


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## redeye58 (Jun 26, 2011)

commiecorvus said:


> WM assigns gogetter to LP a couple of times to show him how not to do the job.
> TA da leadership.



...and like the saying goes "If you can't shine as an example, you can serve as a warning."


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## Hardlinesmaster (Jun 26, 2011)

Due to no response from op, it is suggested to close this thread. Various off topics & disagreements have occurred that nothing to do with the original question posted.


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## Barcode (Jun 26, 2011)

Hardlinesmaster said:


> Due to no response from op, it is suggested to close this thread. Various off topics & disagreements have occurred that nothing to do with the original question posted.



seconded


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## NOP not our problem (Jun 26, 2011)

close it!


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