# Target CEO pay doubles.



## Frontlanegirl (Apr 29, 2019)

Target CEO Brian Cornell's total pay doubled to $17.2 million last year - https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/stock-market-news-today-032919/h_2bec9be7f3c4f7a4f5c1d91ff6f7133f?utm_term=link&utm_source=fbbusiness&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2019-04-29T21%3A01%3A00&fbclid=IwAR3zZkInSAYLGCrLc1rQzDnrGc9TCOM_yz2HL4YZ7SUwnZ965RdBwriepHs


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## Fyi (Apr 29, 2019)

We should all send a nice email to
Brian.cornell@target.com congratulating him.

“Cornell's salary was 767 times more than Target's median worker salary. The median worker at Target made $22,439 last year. Target had 360,000 employees last year.”


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## commiecorvus (Apr 29, 2019)

Brian makes $32.73 a minute every day, no matter if he is awake or asleep.


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## ThatAPguy (Apr 29, 2019)

Hey Brian, can I get a loan 💰


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## NPC (Apr 30, 2019)

Fyi said:


> We should all send a nice email to
> Brian.cornell@target.com congratulating him.
> 
> “Cornell's salary was 767 times more than Target's median worker salary. The median worker at Target made $22,439 last year. Target had 360,000 employees last year.”



Take his entire year's salary and distribute it to all 360,000 team members. We all get $48 bucks. Just for some perspective.


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## jarman (Apr 30, 2019)

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincit...o-brian-cornells-pay-doubles-in-2018-but.html. base pay went up slightly. its stock options.


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## Times Up (Apr 30, 2019)

jarman said:


> https://www.bizjournals.com/twincit...o-brian-cornells-pay-doubles-in-2018-but.html. base pay went up slightly. its stock options.



Stock options that increase in value due to the labor that WE provide.  I'll take some stock options to double my pay.


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## NKG (Apr 30, 2019)

Whelp I see everyone forgot that the minimum wage is moving to $15 next year


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## qmosqueen (Apr 30, 2019)

NKG said:


> Whelp I see everyone forgot that the minimum wage is moving to $15 next year


Add gasoline right now is 3.29 per gallon in  2020 gasoline will we well over 4.00 per gallon. So I will be spending an extra 80 dollars a month just on gas for the car evens out or even less.


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## Send me a sign (Apr 30, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> Brian makes $32.73 a minute every day, no matter if he is awake or asleep.


And they want to put timers on us?????


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## commiecorvus (Apr 30, 2019)

Send me a sign said:


> And they want to put timers on us?????




Makes you thinks, eh?


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## band_rules16 (Apr 30, 2019)

We get to wear jeans. It makes up for it.


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## Send me a sign (Apr 30, 2019)

NKG said:


> Whelp I see everyone forgot that the minimum wage is moving to $15 next year


Is that $15 coming out of Brian’s overstuffed pockets? 👎 It is coming from cutting tms hours in half, so please don’t try to present this as an overall win for everyone.


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## NKG (Apr 30, 2019)

Send me a sign said:


> Is that $15 coming out of Brian’s overstuffed pockets? 👎 It is coming from cutting tms hours in half, so please don’t try to present this as an overall win for everyone.



I didn't say it was a win but everyone forgot about the pay increase


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## commiecorvus (Apr 30, 2019)

NPC said:


> Take his entire year's salary and distribute it to all 360,000 team members. We all get $48 bucks. Just for some perspective.




Cut his salary down by 9 million and use that increase hours.
It wouldn't be a lot but it would be some for each store.
This would come out to a lot more than $48.00 in the long run.


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## Times Up (Apr 30, 2019)

NKG said:


> Whelp I see everyone forgot that the minimum wage is moving to $15 next year



Um, unless you're currently making $7.50, that $15/hr isn't doubling your income.

Additionally, that full $15 may not fully show up for another 20 months.


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## NKG (Apr 30, 2019)

PassinTime said:


> Um, unless you're currently making $7.50, that $15/hr isn't doubling your income.
> 
> Additionally, that full $15 may not fully show up for another 20 months.



It's still an extra $100 in your pocket


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## oath2order (Apr 30, 2019)




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## signingminion (Apr 30, 2019)

NKG said:


> It's still an extra $100 in your pocket


Not at 15-20hrs a week. Unless you meant $100 over the year...


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## unknown (Apr 30, 2019)

NKG said:


> I didn't say it was a win but everyone forgot about the pay increase



Believe me when I tell I have not forgotten it. It's not an increase for me. But I still got my hours cut. Brian's pay doubles, mine goes down. Thanks.


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## Send me a sign (Apr 30, 2019)

I don’t understand your math. Where is this extra $100 coming from? The article states average tms made $22439 last year. Now that the hours have already been slashed drastically, averages will be dipping far below $19000 in 2019. That’s a generous estimate on my part, since I used $15 in my equation and most tms are still under $13. But let us all be ever so grateful for our CEOs generous leadership?


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## Frontlanegirl (Apr 30, 2019)

NKG said:


> It's still an extra $100 in your pocket


Not if your hours are being cut, like many people are posting.


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## jackandcat (Apr 30, 2019)

Not trying to defend the guy but his actual salary was $1.38 million. The rest was "stock awards" and "incentives and other forms of compensation."  CEOs hire negotiators who bargain and haggle with boards, they present a dog-and-pony show to the boards.  All too common today in the biz world, it's not unusual except the pay gap is worse than companies with better paid employees.


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## Tessa120 (Apr 30, 2019)

If stock options were the dramatic increase, then why did my 401k that was tied to Target's stock lose money last year?


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## Antennae (Apr 30, 2019)

Gonna be a yuuuuge golden parachute when this chump bounces.


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## Fix It (May 1, 2019)

“767 times more than Target's median worker salary. The median worker at Target made $22,439 last year.”

Fun fact: in 2020, $15 at 29 hours per week you’ll get $22,620 a year before taxes while being an hour shy of health insurance with the company.

You want more per hour? You got it. They capitalized on the big $15 subject and guess who’s getting bent for it.


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## commiecorvus (May 1, 2019)

Fix It said:


> “767 times more than Target's median worker salary. The median worker at Target made $22,439 last year.”
> 
> Fun fact: in 2020, $15 at 29 hours per week you’ll get $22,620 a year before taxes while being an hour shy of health insurance with the company.
> 
> You want more per hour? You got it. They capitalized on the big $15 subject and guess who’s getting bent for it.




The US Federal Poverty Threshold in 2019 for one person is $12,060. (In Alaska and some major cities it can range from 15,060 to 16,060.)
So the median Spot employee makes about eight to ten grand over the poverty level.
Consider that the Poverty Threshold is the demarcation point for where a person stops being able to survive without help in the US.

So the guy who is making $32.73 a minute even when he isn't at work, even when he is asleep, even when he is fucking his wife, seems to me to have some explaining to do.


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## pellinore (May 1, 2019)

Yep, many TMs are under the poverty threshold.....and isn't that a sad bit of information?
I'm guessing that walmart workers are probably in the same sinking boat.


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## jackandcat (May 1, 2019)

pellinore said:


> Yep, many TMs are under the poverty threshold.....and isn't that a sad bit of information?
> I'm guessing that walmart workers are probably in the same sinking boat.


Many TMs are on government funded Medicaid since Target cut out most part-time TMs from health insurance.


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## Amity (May 1, 2019)

But does he have airpods?

Relatively speaking...in the world of ballers and CEOs that isn’t that much. Bezos made something like $149,000 a minute in 2018.*

* We did the math to calculate how much money Jeff Bezos makes in a year, month, week, day, hour, minute, and second - http://www.businessinsider.com/what-amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-makes-every-day-hour-minute-2018-10


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## bikebryan (May 1, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> If stock options were the dramatic increase, then why did my 401k that was tied to Target's stock lose money last year?


Check out how stock options work.  They don't necessarily have any effect on stock price, or indexes that vary based on them.


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## workdamnyou (May 2, 2019)

They do not. They do, however, sometimes have an effect on executive decision making and timing 


			https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2014/02/11/how-stock-options-lead-ceos-to-put-their-own-interests-first/?das=pw_spsrd_hit&utm_term=.76a1f0afdf4e
		


I have no idea what his vestment periods are on his options of course.


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## Switch23 (May 3, 2019)

workdamnyou said:


> They do not. They do, however, sometimes have an effect on executive decision making and timing
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2014/02/11/how-stock-options-lead-ceos-to-put-their-own-interests-first/?das=pw_spsrd_hit&utm_term=.76a1f0afdf4e
> ...


Guessing they aren't weekly OTM options but that's just me.

Also imagine the insider trading that could happen if someone knew when his options were set to expire. I know Cornell or other CEO's don't want their options to expire worthless so chances are the stock is going to bump around that time. Serious money could be made.


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## jackandcat (Nov 6, 2019)

Bumping this thread:  Our second-largest competitor and the 11th largest US corporation by market cap, Walmart, just hired as its CEO a long-term associate, John Furner, who started with Walmart working in the Garden Center in a Bentonville store.  My mind just said "Whoa!" when I realized that here's a company 8 times larger than Target which actually has hired from within for the CEO job. *"Promote from within*" may sound cliche in today's world but it hasn't stopped Walmart from becoming a very shrewd and gigantic competitor.  Walmart U.S. CEO, John Furner took a trip down memory lane at Store 100 in Bentonville where his career began almost 27 years ago.


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## RunForACallBox (Nov 6, 2019)

Almost like Target wanted change. Needed it. They probably knew no one within would bring that change. Now look, a fucking mess.


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## bikebryan (Nov 6, 2019)

Switch23 said:


> Guessing they aren't weekly OTM options but that's just me.
> 
> Also imagine the insider trading that could happen if someone knew when his options were set to expire. I know Cornell or other CEO's don't want their options to expire worthless so chances are the stock is going to bump around that time. Serious money could be made.


Which is why that stuff is closely monitored by the SEC and other federal agencies.


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## dannyy315 (Nov 6, 2019)

I know a lot of people are focused on the $17.2 million number, but if you distributed that to all the employees they'd only get an extra $47.77 for the entire year before taxes.


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## sunnydays (Nov 7, 2019)

yes, gross ceo compensation is simply a symptom of a larger problem, not something that prevents rank & file workers from getting higher hourly pay


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## skrepo1977 (Nov 7, 2019)

People get off the whole CEO pay thing already. You guys are looking at the wrong thing. The 5 billion they are using to secure stock buybacks while taking out  debt loans is where the attention should be directed at. That is roughly $15,000 per team member there.

The primary reason why they are giving him stock options is for when he does exercise them he will be taxed at a much lower rate than if he was getting a salary. Also he is most likely getting Class A shares, like a lot of CEOs, in his portfolio that are guaranteed at a base rate regardless of how low the stock goes. Target could go bankrupt tomorrow and be a penny stock and he will get a certain amount vested regardless of formalities that the company may face. In his eyes, the stock can only go up


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## commiecorvus (Nov 7, 2019)

dannyy315 said:


> I know a lot of people are focused on the $17.2 million number, but if you distributed that to all the employees they'd only get an extra $47.77 for the entire year before taxes.



As I pointed out earlier in the thread you can take half his salary and distribute it as hours to the stores.
It would go a lot further that way and pay a lot more people.
And as @skrepo1977 pointed out a shitload of the money we don't see comes in stocks and the decisions they make in terms of buybacks instead of actually putting money into the company.
If that fuckton of money they used to do buybacks had been invested in the company for equipment and hours everyone's lives would be considerably better.
By playing at being the king, and getting paid just to fucking breath, this guy is fucking you over in every possible way.


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## Not My Name (Nov 7, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> As I pointed out earlier in the thread you can take half his salary and distribute it as hours to the stores.
> It would go a lot further that way and pay a lot more people.



No, it would not.  This is EXTREMELY factually incorrect.


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## Not My Name (Nov 7, 2019)

skrepo1977 said:


> People get off the whole CEO pay thing already. You guys are looking at the wrong thing. The 5 billion they are using to secure stock buybacks while taking out  debt loans is where the attention should be directed at. That is roughly $15,000 per team member there.



It’s not entirely quite that simple but yes you are right, this is pretty much it. This is significantly closer to the truth than the idea you could wipe out CEO pay entirely or half of it, redistribute it to everyone, and have it even make more than the ever so slightest difference to any given worker in the company.

But hey... fuck facts, right?  Feelings are the only thing that matter in these discussions because the people up in arms about CEO pay only care about feelings.  Not objective truth.  Only subjective truth.


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## commiecorvus (Nov 7, 2019)

Not My Name said:


> No, it would not.  This is EXTREMELY factually incorrect.



So you are a facts over feelings guy.

I will admit some hyperbole if you will admit some facts.
Fact, the average employees wages have stagnated as CEOs have skyrocketed.
Fact, one company has managed to pay their employees well but doesn't pay their CEO an exorbitant amount (that would be Costco in case nobody didn't already know).
Fact, that CEO makes $650,000 with $200,00 bonus if he meets his goals (which is twice what his predecessor made but he was a man of serious principle).

So lets play a game I like to call fun with maths.
You can check me if you want it is possible I got some of this wrong.

The CEO of Target has more stores to run so he should get more money than the CEO of Costco, lets give him $1,000,000,
I think most folks could survive on that, don't you.
That would leave us with the extra $16,2000,000 that we aren't paying him to spend.
I had to comb through the stockholders because Spot doesn't like to put this out where anyone can find it but they spent $1,600,000,000.
His remaining salary is roughly a 1.34% raise across the board.
I got a 1.5% for the first time in 5 years (don't let people tell you state employees are paid a lot) and it has been nice, not much but nice.

So yeah, more than half to be sure but more than fair to be certain.


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## Not My Name (Nov 7, 2019)

If we took away 100% of his pay and redistributed it evenly across all store team members, it wouldn’t be enough to matter for anything other than a fleeting moment.

The idea and discussion of him being overpaid is an entirely different discussion from the idea and discussion of him taking a pay cut for the workers' benefit.


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## Not My Name (Nov 7, 2019)

To clarify, there are, according to Target's website, 350,000 Target employees.

For kicks, let's round that way ridiculously down in your favor... to 200,000... just for kicks.

Now, let's take all of Cornell's salary... 17.2 million according to this thread, and round it up to 20 million, again, in your favor of course.


Now, let's take that 20 million and divide it across 200,000 team members.  That's $100 annually... or... roughly $2 per week.  That's $4 per pay check, before taxes, lol.  That is... so far and away from being a meaningful number to make a difference in your life that it's not funny.  Additionally, it's no where near a 1.34% raise across the board for everyone.  Not even remotely close.


From a moral perspective, I agree, he does not deserve that much money and it's a shame that he gets it.  He certainly hasn't contributed that much or even close to it in terms of company success, but... I'm also not emotional and irrational enough to think his pay matters... it doesn't.

If you want to get into a discussion about how his pay is structured and linked to stock prices... and what arguably malicious actions he could partake in to get his pay up as a result of how his pay is structured, that's fine.  We can talk about that.

But the actual number itself is absolutely and indisputably irrelevant to the stores.  He could make $100,000,000 and it still woudn't matter to your average store worker, if redistributed evenly.


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## Not My Name (Nov 7, 2019)

I'd also like to add one last thing... there is nothing stopping sociopaths and psychopaths from obtaining the positions they obtain in government, large companies, etc. Nothing will ever stop them, because they on a very fundamental existential level, do not care about rules or laws or moral good.  They just don't care.

Until we advance enough as a species to readily identify and medically diagnose psychopaths and sociopaths with extreme ease, this type of stuff will never stop.  It just won't.  You can scream at the sky and curse at the wind and do whatever else you want to do.  You can organize, you can picket... you can shoot up HQ.  Do whatever your heart wants.  But psychopaths are going to be psychopaths... and they're going to get what they want or die trying.  They are like terminators.  They absolutely will not stop.  I'm sorry.  Life isn't fair.


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## gsa4lyfe (Nov 7, 2019)

I mean his pay seems to be standard for CEOs in this industry also Target one of of its best years in recent history last year so only makes sense he gets a raise. That’s just how it works


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## Tessa120 (Nov 7, 2019)

All that extra pay that is a ridiculous amount could be used to negotiate a better benefits plan and add 20 hour workers on, plus bump the hours up at all stores. A block of money goes a long way at the negotiating table.


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## Not My Name (Nov 7, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> All that extra pay that is a ridiculous amount could be used to negotiate a better benefits plan and add 20 hour workers on, plus bump the hours up at all stores. A block of money goes a long way at the negotiating table.



Absolutely false.  You couldn’t even add ONE $10,000 annual worker to each of the 2000 Target stores if you took ALL of his pay.

So he makes 17.2 million... there are roughly 1871 stores.

That is $9192 per store for those of you counting.  At $13 an hour that’s 707 hours per year... which is 1.9 hours per day OR... roughly 13.5 hours per week.


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## gsa4lyfe (Nov 7, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> All that extra pay that is a ridiculous amount could be used to negotiate a better benefits plan and add 20 hour workers on, plus bump the hours up at all stores. A block of money goes a long way at the negotiating table.





Not My Name said:


> Absolutely false.  You couldn’t even add ONE $10,000 annual worker to each of the 2000 Target stores if you took ALL of his pay.


10s of millions of dollars would make little to no impact of put back into the company. Modernization is a 7 BILLION dollar investment. He could get no salary and nothing would change. That amount of money is really not that much in the grand scheme of things


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## dannyy315 (Nov 7, 2019)

Even if you lower his pay and use that to increase hours, it’s only enough to give like 5 extra hours for the entire year. His salary isn’t the issue, it’s that they’re being stingy with the hours because of profits and they want to make the shareholders happy.


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## SeniorAP (Nov 9, 2019)

Instead of a giant circle-jerk of complaints, I hope some of you realize if you increased your 401k contribution and put the majority of it into TARGET STOCK (PLUS your guaranteed 5% MATCH), you TOO would have been able to enjoy some of the 66% YTD INCREASE the company had!! Seriously.. every year its boo-hoo this and that... you can sit on the sidelines feeling butthurt for years on end, or you can simply INCREASE your contribution OR OPEN A ROBINHOOD ACCOUNT and buy your own damn TARGET Stock... seriously. Sucha buncha sore losers here when many have had YEARS to take advantage of the growth and instead decided to do nothing about it.

Its been like at LEAST 10 years people have been complaining about CEO pay.. either get with the program or keep sitting on your bums on the sidelines not taking advantage of the millions of $$$ pouring into stock prices. YOUR LOSS. Nobody else cares if you choose not to buy stock, we're ALL MAKING $$$.


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## commiecorvus (Nov 9, 2019)

SeniorAP said:


> Instead of a giant circle-jerk of complaints, I hope some of you realize if you increased your 401k contribution and put the majority of it into TARGET STOCK (PLUS your guaranteed 5% MATCH), you TOO would have been able to enjoy some of the 66% YTD INCREASE the company had!! Seriously.. every year its boo-hoo this and that... you can sit on the sidelines feeling butthurt for years on end, or you can simply INCREASE your contribution OR OPEN A ROBINHOOD ACCOUNT and buy your own damn TARGET Stock... seriously. Sucha buncha sore losers here when many have had YEARS to take advantage of the growth and instead decided to do nothing about it.
> 
> Its been like at LEAST 10 years people have been complaining about CEO pay.. either get with the program or keep sitting on your bums on the sidelines not taking advantage of the millions of $$$ pouring into stock prices. YOUR LOSS. Nobody else cares if you choose not to buy stock, we're ALL MAKING $$$.




When you are not getting enough hours to pay your bills making a 401K contribution is not even on the horizon.
At one time unions forced companies to provide retirement funds for people.
That has gone away and the companies have destroyed those funds.

I'm sorry but it is a legitimate observation that the salaries of CEOs have skyrocketed while the workers have stagnated.
That isn't butthurt that is a fucking fact.
Also, no other country pays their CEO's at the rate we do.












Late stage capitalism is doing a number on all of us and we need some serious changes if we are going to survive this.
Chastising people for not putting money away that they don't have is not helping.


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## sunnydays (Nov 9, 2019)

SeniorAP said:


> Its been like at LEAST 10 years people have been complaining about CEO pay



and we'll do it for another 10 years if thats what it takes before we rectify the mistakes of late stage, predatory capitalism


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## Dplymkr88 (Nov 10, 2019)

Found the Trump voter.


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## EchoFoxtrot (Nov 10, 2019)

Real question: how many of our shareholders shop at Target? How many shop for themselves? Guess who pays my rent...the guest. Guess who isn't a guest...the shareholder...I mean usually not at least. I know a few "shareholders" that have stock in our company but its a joke. It's like putting money in a savings account if you literally own a few shares lmao...no one gives a fuck about you as a shareholder at that point. Funny to me. If I'm wrong please educate me and I apologize. Anyway yeah...guests are our guests...shareholders are the higher ups guests. And yeah I say that facetiously.


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## EchoFoxtrot (Nov 10, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> When you are not getting enough hours to pay your bills making a 401K contribution is not even on the horizon.
> At one time unions forced companies to provide retirement funds for people.
> That has gone away and the companies have destroyed those funds.
> 
> ...


props for this post...the info is invaluable unlike our jobs apparently


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## Panda13 (Nov 10, 2019)

Bet CEO does not work Thanksgiving.


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## SeniorAP (Nov 10, 2019)

I just find it hilarious when all the ratios of CEO pay to workers is posted, then you IGNORE the fact that even if the CEO had a pay of ZERO $, and his current salary was redistributed, YOUR SHARE OF THE PIE WOULD BE A LOUSY $47... (as posted multiple times already) Sooo.. what does HIS pay have to do with yours?? Nothing. Your political ideology tells you it does, but the MATH shows you it DOESN'T. Most of his compensation is in company stock, NOT his W2 wage earnings...

Low IQ hourly wage slaves are so narrow minded they can only imagine punching a time-clock for a living. You completely disregard any other investments, like stock ownership, and then get outraged when people's earnings outpace yours. Its like getting mad at people for cleaning snow with a snowblower when you decide to do it manually with a shovel. If you're only looking at your hourly wage, and not taking advantage of the appreciating investments (or OVERALL compensation package, like increasing your yearly earning by 5% by doing the 401k), then the loss is on YOU because you're choosing to work harder for your income, instead of smarter. At least you get to punch out and call it a day.. look at the Execs that answer emails 24/7 and never get any peace... now imagine being a CEO responsible for almost 2,000 stores after a FAILED expansion into Canada... guess stocking shelves and being told what to do for a predetermined amount of time isn't the end of the world...

YOU wanted $15/hr and now you just about have it... but you continue to complain. WE warned you that hours would be cut and demands would be increased with higher wages, and you acted like a typical brain-dead liberal ignoring reality. Then automation came, JUST LIKE WE WARNED YOU ABOUT.. SMH!! You were smart enough to come across theBreakroom by googling it, but you're not smart enough to youtube/google financial advise?? There's unlimited amount of free information out there on how to make money with multiple income streams and you're still here outraged that you're moving snow by hand while others use plow trucks. LMAOO


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## flow4areasonuno (Nov 10, 2019)

SeniorAP said:


> You completely disregard any other investments, like stock ownership,



Has it occurred to you we can't afford that shit?


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## commiecorvus (Nov 10, 2019)

I find it hilarious when people defend the ratios of CEO pay by trying to tie them the companies stock prices and of course, the classic, it would only be a few bucks if you divided to everybody.
Of, course they skip right over the fact that the CEO can make decisions that will effect how much that stock is worth, like stock buybacks instead of raises for their employees.
These screeds usually come with the standard insults to people's intelligence about how they should be investing or working a better job.
I've even seen people make these kind of bullshit comments about someone who couldn't afford their insulin because of the crap insurance and minimal hours offered by their job.
This is not a situation that working smarter will fix.
The charts I posted show how the CEOs in this country are paid way out of proportion with those in any other country.
There is no reason for that.
The rise in CEO salaries as compared to stagnation of the regular workers wages is a clear problem.
There is a clear problem right now in this country with the massive wealth disparity.
That has to be fixed and we need a safety net to help people like the kid who was running out of insulin while the CEO was making $46.30 a minute even when he was fucking his wife.


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## SeniorAP (Nov 11, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> The charts I posted show how the CEOs in this country are paid way out of proportion with those in any other country.
> There is no reason for that.


Posted by "Commie"corvus... LMAO!! Ooookayy I think that says it all!! bwahahaha


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## sunnydays (Nov 11, 2019)

cool debate, you must be fun at parties


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## commiecorvus (Nov 11, 2019)

Depends on the kinds of parties you like.


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## dannyy315 (Nov 11, 2019)

In the end, they want to keep the wages low because it'll decrease the profits, and they don't want to disappoint their shareholders. A retired multimillionaire can buy a bunch of shares and make more money over the year sitting on their ass than an employee who busted their ass. That's capitalism.


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## commiecorvus (Nov 11, 2019)

SeniorAP said:


> Posted by "Commie"corvus... LMAO!! Ooookayy I think that says it all!! bwahahaha




I'm happy to admit my politics run in the neighborhood of democratic socialist with touches of anarcho-syndicalism.
I grew up with family who were old school communists so I know what that actually is and nothing I said is even close.
Unless you think FDR was a commie.
(For those of you who don't know the story, my drink of choice is the Redraven which is commie=red, raven=corvus.)


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## redeye58 (Nov 11, 2019)

SeniorAP said:


> Posted by "Commie"corvus... LMAO!! Ooookayy I think that says it all!! bwahahaha


Dude, what are you? 13?


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## can't touch this (Nov 11, 2019)

SeniorAP said:


> Posted by "Commie"corvus... LMAO!! Ooookayy I think that says it all!! bwahahaha



I ain't a commie but if Commissar-corvus ever sends you to gulag pls say hi to Brian for me


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## commiecorvus (Nov 11, 2019)

can't touch this said:


> I ain't a commie but if Commissar-corvus ever sends you to gulag pls say hi to Brian for me




Dude, gulags are old school.
We are all about re-education camps now.
Actually I'd love to have give Brian one store to run with all the employees as part owners and everything major has to be done by consensus.
See how well he manages a syndicalist coop.
In case any of you want to say that it isn't possible to run a store that way my brother is one of the owner/workers of a bicycle shop in California that runs exactly that way and they do a couple million a year worth of business.


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## can't touch this (Nov 11, 2019)

commiecorvus said:


> In case any of you want to say that it isn't possible to run a store that way my brother is one of the owner/workers of a bicycle shop in California that runs exactly that way and they do a couple million a year worth of business.



Uh question, has a camera crew ever rolled in there and interviewed everybody? because I think I remember seeing that in a video in a college course I took

Or it might have been a bakery, idk. I remember it being a co-op and in Cali but that's it


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## commiecorvus (Nov 11, 2019)

Maybe, they have been around forever.
My brother has been a worker/owner there for, oh hell has it been that long, like 20 some odd years.

Edit, they did.
Back when insurance companies were fucking over small businesses by raising their health insurance rates because of AIDS (especially in Cali).
They were insuring all their people and the price jumped like 200%
They got together with all the small businesses in the area and told the insurance companies to fuck themselves.
They set up their own self funded system entirely which has been doing well for everyone ever since.


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## HardlinesFour (Nov 12, 2019)

EchoFoxtrot said:


> Real question: how many of our shareholders shop at Target? How many shop for themselves? Guess who pays my rent...the guest. Guess who isn't a guest...the shareholder...I mean usually not at least. I know a few "shareholders" that have stock in our company but its a joke. It's like putting money in a savings account if you literally own a few shares lmao...no one gives a fuck about you as a shareholder at that point. Funny to me. If I'm wrong please educate me and I apologize. Anyway yeah...guests are our guests...shareholders are the higher ups guests. And yeah I say that facetiously.



Guess What! I and my husband are both shareholders of Target, and I regularly shop our stores religiously!

What many of you will never understand is your retirement account probably consists of equities, as in stocks in companies! And many of you are in direct shareholders of the company through a index fund, or mutual fund you are invested in. Basically, anyone who actually has a retirement account - probably is invested in large, pubic companies like Facebook, or Target!

Secondly, as shareholders in these companies, I honestly would prefer that they well, than badly. You know, because, I'm actually counting on these companies to do well enough, so I can actually retire in my 60's. I have absolutely zero faith in Social Security giving me any money, to pay for common living expenses, so I realized years ago, I need to protect myself, and have my own safety net. Honestly, the peace of mind and well being I have, knowing we are safe and comfortable, beats anything else, we could actually spend the money with. I can't stress that enough.

Anyway. Like I said... it's people who have retirement accounts, that are the shareholders. MANY of our guests, are shareholders, and probably don't have a clue!


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## Tessa120 (Nov 12, 2019)

When people speak of keeping the shareholders happy, they are referring to the few that hold so much stock that those few have majority vote in everything.  Holding a few dozen shares means nothing in bargaining and negotiating power on how to direct the company.

And Great Recession.  What little was done to prevent it was undone by companies wanting to play by the old rules.


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## HardlinesFour (Nov 12, 2019)

These are the largest shareholders of Target. 



			TGT - Target Corp Shareholders - CNNMoney.com
		


If you look closely, it’s all Trustees and Management companies for retirement accounts. There’s no individual hedge fund, or person controlling a majority share.


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## redeye58 (Nov 12, 2019)

My 401K consists of a mix of large/small, domestic/foreign stocks as well as cash & bonds spread out.
Company stock is less than 5% & I go in to adjust when it gets above that amount.
In early years when I ignored it Tgt stock took up nearly 70% & it was performing poorly at the time.
After that I dumped the majority of stock, diversified & it shot up.
I still only do 5% before tax as I can't afford any more & that's the max spot will match.
I also intend to work as long as I can since husband's consulting work is drying up.
We're lucky, tho; most of the younger kids I work with can't even afford to do the minimum & they're NOT big spenders.


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## Switch23 (Nov 13, 2019)

bikebryan said:


> Which is why that stuff is closely monitored by the SEC and other federal agencies.


Yeah and the fire aisles are clear in the backrooms in every store.


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## HardlinesFour (Nov 16, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> And Great Recession.  What little was done to prevent it was undone by companies wanting to play by the old rules.



That Great Recession was not caused by Equities or Leveraged Buyouts. It was caused by Major Investment Banks, leveraged 38 times their Cash on hand, and being heavily invested in Home Equity Loans & Home Mortgages to people with questionable ability to repay.

What was supposed to happen in theory, was these little blocks of Residual interest (excess interest, from homeowners paying above average rates) were supposed to cover losses from defaulting and souring loans. When 26% of the homeowners in these deals decide to stop paying either from no ability to pay, or simply walking away from a bad investment -- the whole theory imploded. Toss in declining home prices, and a 6% writedown (virtually unheard of before the crisis) - was enough to topple, and pull the cards on Lehman Brothers & Bear Stearns. 

And to counter your original point, no, they don't have the ability to do what they did before the crisis. While I would say Credit Quality is somewhat similar, to what I saw before the crash, most homeowners have a somewhat documented ability to repay their loans, and there is a lot more scrutiny when it comes to home appraisals. More importantly, the government now guarantees most loans originated - so losses are almost impossible on many of these portfolios. What happened in 2008, is not going to happen anytime soon. 

The Investment Banks on the street, besides Deutsche Bank are extremely well capitalized, and never before have had as much liquidity. There shouldn't be another bank failure anytime soon. 



Switch23 said:


> Yeah and the fire aisles are clear in the backrooms in every store.


Why don't you ask Martha Stewart about the SEC? I'm sure she has a different opinion of them.


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## HardlinesFour (Nov 16, 2019)

redeye58 said:


> My 401K consists of a mix of large/small, domestic/foreign stocks as well as cash & bonds spread out.
> Company stock is less than 5% & I go in to adjust when it gets above that amount.
> In early years when I ignored it Tgt stock took up nearly 70% & it was performing poorly at the time.
> After that I dumped the majority of stock, diversified & it shot up.
> ...



The Target stock has been very bumpy, but I'm glad I've held on-to what I acquired while at Spot. I've been very satisfied with how it's performed the past few years, but you are right, NO ONE should have a 70% allocation. Imagine how the employees of Borders, or Circuit City felt about having all their eggs in one Basket. 

With that said... Honestly, I do believe, with time, Target could eventually become a decent competitor to Amazon. I have a lot of faith, but I may be alone in that.


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## Switch23 (Nov 17, 2019)

HardlinesFour said:


> Why don't you ask Martha Stewart about the SEC? I'm sure she has a different opinion of them.


Same with Kareem Serageldin, but the fact we can only name two people says a lot.


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## jackandcat (Nov 28, 2019)

Tessa120 said:


> All that extra pay that is a ridiculous amount could be used to negotiate a better benefits plan and add 20 hour workers on, plus bump the hours up at all stores. A block of money goes a long way at the negotiating table.


 What negotiating table?


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## Tessa120 (Nov 28, 2019)

jackandcat said:


> What negotiating table?


Employer company vs benefits companies. Benefits companies want to get a high price, employer company plays them off against each other to get the price down. Make the amount higher and the benefits companies will be even more eager to give a little in order to get the contract.


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## YourPPTL (Nov 29, 2019)

Times Up said:


> Stock options that increase in value due to the labor that WE provide.  I'll take some stock options to double my pay.


So invest in the stock market,. Put money in 401k. Then you will see your money grow.. Don't be a hater.


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## flow4areasonuno (Nov 29, 2019)

YourPPTL said:


> So invest in the stock market,. Put money in 401k. Then you will see your money grow.. Don't be a hater.



Gee, I would except I can't afford the stock market.


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## commiecorvus (Nov 29, 2019)

YourPPTL said:


> So invest in the stock market,. Put money in 401k. Then you will see your money grow.. Don't be a hater.




Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. 
Ambrose  Bierce - The Devils Dictionary

Asking for someones blood as well as their labor is not a viable method of running a society.


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## HardlinesFour (Nov 29, 2019)

How nice is it truly..that we live in a society with Freedom of Expression, instead of a Oppressed One under Communism? Something to think about.


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## Staffwoman (Nov 29, 2019)

HardlinesFour said:


> How nice is it truly..that we live in a society with Freedom of Expression, instead of a Oppressed One under Communism? Something to think about.



Capitalism versus Communism are economic systems and have little do, theoretically, with freedom of expression. Though it's odd that the implementation of communism has been mostly under oligarchic rule. 

Believe me, I'm no proponent of communism, I just find that correlation odd.


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## Times Up (Nov 29, 2019)

YourPPTL said:


> So invest in the stock market,. Put money in 401k. Then you will see your money grow.. Don't be a hater.



I do invest and make considerably more money due to compounding than I do by showing up at my job.

However, the deck is still stacked against the average worker who actually does ' the work' than those that SIT in the C-Suite and dream up that work.  This is why the middle class has had stagnant wages (overall compensation, really) for decades while the rich keep getting richer.


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## commiecorvus (Nov 29, 2019)

Staffwoman said:


> Capitalism versus Communism are economic systems and have little do, theoretically, with freedom of expression. Though it's odd that the implementation of communism has been mostly under oligarchic rule.
> 
> Believe me, I'm no proponent of communism, I just find that correlation odd.




The problem with systems like communism is they require people to share common cause and ideals.
If some asshole decides to subvert those principles and make the government running the system into a totalitarian state, there is nothing to stop it from happening.
Just as there is nothing in capitalism that will keep a government from turning fascist.
However, as an economic system it doesn't come with the built in problems that capitalism does.
Capitalism is a system that needs government to keep it in check while communism needs to have the government kept in check to work properly.


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